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  1. #21  
    [QUOTE=UntidyGuy;2688239]It will probably double or triple.

    Yeah to two and three people... lol
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Yes, marketing will help. But those devices actually work very well, so it's not just marketing. The Pre had one of the biggest pre-launch hype from the time it was introduced at CES '09. It did not fail solely due to poor marketing.
    Actually marketing is a pretty huge factor. I personally had never even heard of the Pre or webOS for that matter until about the middle of this year. I certainly heard about the original DROID long before it actually released though.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    (How many people call their EVO or other Android based phones "Droid"'s. Shows what marketing can do.)
    Funny thing is this is sort of a failure in marketing from a branding POV. People think "Droid" is short for "Android". So rather than recognizing a brand belonging to Verizon, Verizon is helping to sell more Android phones on all carriers.

    I don't really mean to imply that the marketing campaign is a failure. Just that, "Droid" is supposed to be Verizon's brand of Android phones, yet people simply think it means "ANY" Android phone. It's a win for Android. But the is a (small) hiccup for Verizon since (some) people will purchase their next "Droid" from AT&T and Sprint.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Actually marketing is a pretty huge factor. I personally had never even heard of the Pre or webOS for that matter until about the middle of this year. I certainly heard about the original DROID long before it actually released though.
    No doubt! On the flip side however, I've personally shown the Pre to many people only to be met with indifference once they realized it was "a palm". :-(
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Funny thing is this is sort of a failure in marketing from a branding POV. People think "Droid" is short for "Android". So rather than recognizing a brand belonging to Verizon, Verizon is helping to sell more Android phones on all carriers.

    I don't really mean to imply that the marketing campaign is a failure. Just that, "Droid" is supposed to be Verizon's brand of Android phones, yet people simply think it means "ANY" Android phone. It's a win for Android. But the is a (small) hiccup for Verizon since (some) people will purchase their next "Droid" from AT&T and Sprint.
    True in a limited way, but not completely. I bet Sprint or AT&T wishes they could be the 'Kleenex' or 'Xerox' of the Android market. Because once that name is ubiquitous, only Verizon can run advertising which uses it. That will only drive sales for them if they are smart in their advertising.

    "Buy the Droid... ONLY at Verizon Wireless"


    Their marketing team should be licking their chops at the possibilities.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    No doubt! On the flip side however, I've personally shown the Pre to many people only to be met with indifference once they realized it was "a palm". :-(
    Which shows just how much of a marketing failure that needs to be dealt with.
  7. #27  
    on a side note.... My friend wanted to show me his awsome new phone and he pulled out a palmpre yesturday lol... I've had a pre since launch. I have another friend that just pick one up also. That 0 out of 4000 can't be right. Maybe not in ny
  8. #28  
    Timing is very important and Android happens to be FREE and open source, so this is the main reason why it has sky-rocketed. Most folks dont have a clue as to what version they are running, but they do know they got the latest piece of hardware.

    So Android/Google played their cards right with all the hardware builders and phone companies. I think one can substitute Android with any platform and it would sale just as many if the phone makers and sellers stuck to same game plan.

    I say this to say I believe webOS is truely the only OS that actually is better than its hardware, so if HP/Palm does it right with next generation and release multiple form factors with great hardware, it will be awesome.

    1. Improve software to levels that truely competes and has more to offer than iOS
    2. Gotta have monster hardware in at least 4 form factors
    3. MUST get ALL carriers on bd, so the reps will push webOS (spend the resources to educate them, give them free phones, etc)
    4. MUST market the hell out of webOS and leverage EVERY option HP/Palm has

    These 4 things are for starters and must continue amongst other things
    Last edited by RoverNole; 10/01/2010 at 04:09 PM.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    True in a limited way, but not completely. I bet Sprint or AT&T wishes they could be the 'Kleenex' or 'Xerox' of the Android market. Because once that name is ubiquitous, only Verizon can run advertising which uses it. That will only drive sales for them if they are smart in their advertising.

    "Buy the Droid... ONLY at Verizon Wireless"


    Their marketing team should be licking their chops at the possibilities.
    You are right, of course. I'm just saying that because of the "Droid"/"Android" name play Verizon is using, they will, in addition to increasing their sales, increase the sales of both AT&T and Sprint. You've got to chuckle a bit at the thought of Joe Consumer going into Sprint and asking "Do you have any "Droid" phones?" To which Sprint will happily reply, "Why yes. Yes we do. Take at look at this anDROID phone here. It's call the Epic..."

    Still, their "Droid" campaign, to me, is brilliant. Just saying AT&T and Sprint probably thinks it's brilliant as well. :-)
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    So many people seem to believe that all Palm needs is better marketing. I don't believe that. It would help, yes...maybe, but by itself, I don't think it will change much. Palm almost needs a "Perfect Storm" of events to get back on track. Better products, stellar features, developers, apps, mindshare, damage repair to their brand, etc. It's not just marketing.
    How is that not mostly a marketing issue? I will agree that Palm needs to release some killer new hardware, and soon, but all of the other crap you listed ("mindshare, damage repair to their brand") is 100% marketing.

    Android phones aren't as good as their sales numbers make them seem. I love Google but even with a manufacturer's UI tacked on Android is still a total mess to use. Android and the iPhone are just examples of herd mentality and that is something marketing professionals try to take advantage of.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwood212 View Post
    99% of people are dum and buy phones based on commercials and cool gimmicks. All palm needs to do is convince dum people they are the next cool thing to get. It's not that big of a deal. We've seen it done over and over with cell phones. Some cool ads, some buzz about a new release, target young people and now you have sales.
    Quick HP/Palm, hire this guy now! LOL
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    #32  
    Only one flagship handset that was quickly surpassed and a good OS that had no apps, and lastly over 1yr old with absolutely no follow up?

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out why Palm is barely a blip on anyones radar screen.

    The newly created HP/Palm is basically starting from scratch and I seriously doubt they will be able to gain traction.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by nbmatt View Post
    How is that not mostly a marketing issue? I will agree that Palm needs to release some killer new hardware, and soon, but all of the other crap you listed ("mindshare, damage repair to their brand") is 100% marketing.

    Android phones aren't as good as their sales numbers make them seem. I love Google but even with a manufacturer's UI tacked on Android is still a total mess to use. Android and the iPhone are just examples of herd mentality and that is something marketing professionals try to take advantage of.
    LOL @ "herd mentality". I was gonna take your post seriously until I read that.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    LOL @ "herd mentality". I was gonna take your post seriously until I read that.
    You decided not to take him seriously because of semantics?

    I guess that shows how much of an effect "marketing" can really have.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwood212 View Post
    99% of people are dum
    The irony of that phrase, as posted, without a doubt, makes it a signature-worthy quote! Thanks!
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Yes, marketing will help. But those devices actually work very well, so it's not just marketing. The Pre had one of the biggest pre-launch hype from the time it was introduced at CES '09. It did not fail solely due to poor marketing.
    for tech heads yes we have herd of it... the other 99% of the population.. had no idea what it was. Being that i was in the first batch of Blackberry Storm users that phone was a hardware DISASTER!!! ask anyone.. heck ask the head guy at crackberry he will say without a doubt that was the worst phone RIM had ever put out... YET perception of the phone was still good.

    Trust me it took up to 5 seconds for the phone to rotate, extreme OS lag, constant crashes and i'm pretty sure a 50%+ return rate.. so bad that within 8 months they announced the storm2 that started a "rants and raves" section under the blackberry storm section...

    And this just isn't my issues these were common widespread issues. there was battery issues, there is a gap around the screen that collects dust that eventually works its way under the glass, light spilling out from buttons that fell off easily. And a bunch more that i can't remember. Oh and the whole point of the phone was that it depressed down and clicked... well for a lot of phones the click didn't work near the corners.

    Perception still makes the phone cool. If HP has JayZ and Shan White rocking out with a WebOS phone laptop and tablet... guess what!!!! the phone is awesome to the other 99% of the population (normal consumer)
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    The irony of that phrase, as posted, without a doubt, makes it a signature-worthy quote! Thanks!
    LOL I have to avoid using that letter because my palm pre will just keep typing BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB if I hit it.
  18. #38  
    [corrected]

    A correction to the statistics...

    Showing 0% out of 4,000 means less than 1/2%. That means that somewhere between 0 and 19 out of 4,000 choose webOS. Yes, that is very low but most likely it is not 0.

    Still HP may actually be a worse situation than if they had never had a phone before because of the wide-spread coverage of the Pre's screen cracks, Oreo Effect, keyboard open resets, etc. Even Palm's advertising with the pasty-white vampire girl has left Palm and webOS with a creepy stigma. And then they wanted to be literally synonymous with Fairy.

    Retailers want defect rates under 5% and have a goal of under 3%. We love our Pre's but even our own most recent survey continues to show that we are on our second or third Pre's on average.

    Plus if anyone has been around long enough to remember HP phones, those are not good memories for many.

    To get good media buzz at CES they need to call it something different than a Pre 2, Pixi 2, etc. HP needs a do-over so that the media does not poo-poo the new phone based on the Pre.

    Few consumers will buy a brand with a defect rate 20 times worse than average. If HP wants to use a brand that was known for reliability and speed they should call the new phones Treo's. But first they would need a music player as good as they had in 2003, folders, a better internet browser and to give back the dozens of features they lost going from Palm OS to webOS.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 10/04/2010 at 12:13 PM.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    A correction to the statistics...

    Showing 0% out of 4,000 means less than 1/2%. That means that somewhere between 0 and 160 out of 4,000 choose webOS. Yes, that is very low but most likely it is not 0.
    between 0 and 19, not 160. 160 is 4% of 4000 whereas 19 is .475% of 4000.

    So this survey shows up to 19 in 4000 choose webOS.

    20 would give the .5% needed that would have been rounded up to 1%.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    A correction to the statistics...

    Showing 0% out of 4,000 means less than 1/2%. That means that somewhere between 0 and 160 out of 4,000 choose webOS. Yes, that is very low but most likely it is not 0.
    Absolutely true, didn't intend to mislead by the thread title. You are also absolutely right that it is an abysmally low number.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Retailers want defect rates under 5% and have a goal of under 3%. We love our Pre's but even our own most recent survey continues to show that we are on our second or third Pre's on average.
    Until this weekend, I would have called that being "on our second or third Pre" the "PreCentral Effect", thinking that as a whole those of us who take part in this community are going to be more picky and thus more likely to exchange our phones. There are three Pre's in my family, mine, my sisters and a cousin. I don't see the sister and cousin much, but we were all together over the weekend. I was shocked to find out that my sister was on her fourth Pre and even more shocked that my cousin is on her sixth (I am still on my first)!!! These two are completely non-technical and come to find out that of the 10 returns they had in total, 4 were for power button issues, 2 were for touchscreen malfunctions, 2 for headset stuck mode, 1 for non functioning keyboard, and 1 for constant reboots (5 or 6 times and hour).

    I am now starting to wonder what the mass market return percentage is for the Pre. When I asked them why they kept getting the Pre instead of swapping for another phone both answered the same -- because their year contract wasn't up yet and Sprint/Palm was replacing the phone for free under warranty. Both are dumping their Pre as soon as their upgrades are available, sister is headed to Android and cousin is either doing Android or jumping to AT&T for an iPhone.

    The kind of scary part of this for HP is that neither considered webOS 2.0 or a new device ANY reason to stay. They both said they gave Palm a chance and will most likely not be back. That is really sad for HP, I bet they are losing people left and right like this.

    The flip side of this is that I know 4 or 5 other (coworkers, technical people like myself) who have Pres and are playing the HP waiting game like me right now. Almost all of us are doing the "Christmas or out" solution to this. If nothing announced and available by Christmas, we are gone for at least a year onto Android.
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