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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    We can look at it that way as well. I added these calculations to the chart:

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.6 times • iPhone: 3.5 times • EVO: 2.7 times as fast as a stock Pre.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.3 times • iPhone: 2.3 times • EVO: 1.8 times as fast as a 1 GHz Overclocked Pre.

    So a 1GHz Droid X is on average 4.3 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre. An 800 MHz iPhone is on average 2.3 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre. A 1GHz EVO is on average 1.8 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre.

    It's like the 1GHz Droid X is running at a comparable 4.3 GHz.

    Would that would seem to indicate that the differences are not just in clock speed?

    We know that Palm can optimize code when they want to. The webOS 1.04 phone app took nearly 10 seconds to open. Now the webOS phone app is on a par with Android or iOS.

    - Craig
    Can you see how much of a difference the GMaps makes to your cumulative data analysis. Take that data point out and the numbers are not that drastic.

    We all know GMaps is the worst on Palm Pre at loading. This became a problem after google made some modifications to their API code. When I first bought the phone at stock GMaps would launch faster on my phone than on my friends iphone 3GS. I dont think this can be put on webOS. GMaps is not indicative by any measure of how quickly webOS opens apps.

    But you are absolutely correct the difference in responsiveness of webOS is more than just clock speed. Optimization is needed without a doubt. How bad it is right now, is up for debate.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Now seeing what you have done with the numbers, I don't think it is fair to include Google Maps as a performance measure. There is something wrong with the code which is slowing it down.
    We have to include Google Maps to keep the Pre from looking worse.

    We need to compare stock apps with speeds that do not depend on prior usage. We know that Contacts can get bogged down with too many names as can Messages and Email with too many texts and emails. Also there are dozens of Email, Messaging, and Calendar alternative apps that are far better than stock for the other phones. The phone apps are dependent on GSM and CDMA connectivity.

    Really the only two apps that all four platforms have had for at least 15 months that are not dependent on prior usage are Facebook and Google Maps.

    All the carriers have had a huge amount of time to optimize both apps. Palm put their top two guys on their Facebook app.

    And actually it is Google Maps where the Pre is doing best!

    If you take out Google Maps, the Pre is actually 11 times worse on the initial load than the Epic, 7 times worse than the Droid X, and 3 times worse than the EVO and iPhone.

    There just is no good way to frame this to make the Pre look any better than this.

    The sad part is that Palm can write better code than this. Remember when we first got our Pre's and it could take up to 10 seconds for the Phone App to come up? We had all those threads from people in emergency situations who were just staring helplessly at their Pre's?

    Palm did clean up the Phone app and put it on a par with Android and iPhone.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/29/2010 at 10:20 PM.
  3. #43  
    You can't compare third party apps and say. "Look, that phone is faster"
    Like the phone app, <.5 sec, email 1.5 sec, contacts 1 sec, cal, 1.5, messaging 1 sec, photos, 1.5 sec, youtube 1.5, docview 2, calc 1.5, web 2.5, tasks <2, 2.5, vidoes 2, music player 1.5, ... did I mention I started with nothing open and was opening them all without closing any first. Now, switching between them... <.01 sec

    Also, I'm on a Pre+ with 1ghz uber+govnah.
    IIIXE>Clie:N710C>N760C>NX60>Treo[600>650>700]>Centro>Pre+>Pre2&Touchpad 32GB
    webOS Themes: star-trek-universe star-trek-future Future Trek for Tpad

    My CV: http://visualcv.com/egadgetguy
  4.    #44  
    Thank you to everyone for a huge amount of testing. It has been hard to keep up. We now have 42 sample sets of 4 tests each. The Pre, EVO, Droid X, and iPhone 4 trends have remained the same from the beginning.

    Some new results coming in are that the Epic is, well, Epic. As we have read time and again, people who tried the EVO and then switched to the Epic often swear that the Epic is much faster. And in these tests so far that seems to be the case.

    Also we now have in a bunch of BlackBerry data from our friends at CrackBerry. Wow. Just wow. The Torch did burn up the tests and rivals the Epic and Droid X. Even the Storm was smoking fast.

    We are just now beginning to get data sets on the Pre+ but as we knew, that extra memory was put to good use. Even at 1 gig, the Pre+ is half the speed of the new phones but the Pre+ is about 20% faster than the original Pre.

    Tests on these two common apps just gives a snapshot what a typical user sees. Please keep the test results coming in!

    Here is the update:

    Code:
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	Sample
    2.03	2.08	3.74	2.84	2.7	Storm	528	N	vistate1
    2.17	0.62	2.13	0.74	1.4	Torch	624	N	Altarocks
    0.84	0.76	1.26	1.18	1.0	Torch	624	N	IchigoMochi
    1.76	1.56	2.45	2.39	2.0	Torch	624	N	LuvMyBB
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	N	estabancam
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	Y	estabancam
    1.5	1.5	2	1.5	1.6	Droid X	1000	Y	Kupe
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    3	1	5	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	N	Mdorty
    3	1	3	1	2.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Stokes
    4	0.5	4	1	2.4	HTC EVO	1000	N	Jerzyiroc 
    5	1.5	5	0.5	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	0.5	1.6	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	0.5	2	1	1.4	HTC EVO	1200	N	Jerzyiroc 
    2	0.5	2.5	0.5	1.4	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	N	Roo Zilla
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    14	7	12	17	12.5	Pixi	600	N	mattflick819
    11	11	17	10	12.3	Pixi	600	N	nitu
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    4	5	15	10	8.5	Pre	1000	N	ChanceNC
    4	4	6	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	ChanceNC
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    3	3	6	5	4.3	Pre	1000	N	grizzley addams
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    5	3.5	5	5	4.6	Pre	1200	N	2sslow
    9	6	9	7	7.8	Pre +	500	N	HIYinOR
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    6	5	5	4	5.0	Pre +	1000	N	HIYinOR
    1.6	1.0	1.9	1.4	1.5	Torch	average		
    1.0	0.5	3.0	0.5	1.3	Epic	average		
    1.5	1.5	1.8	1.5	1.6	Droid X	average		
    3.2	0.7	2.5	0.7	1.8	iPhone4	average		
    3.7	1.0	4.0	1.0	2.4	HTC EVO	average		
    11.0	10.0	10.3	9.7	10.3	500 Pre	average		
    7.5	5.5	12.0	7.5	8.1	800 Pre	average		
    4.5	4.1	9.0	7.1	6.2	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. A result of 2-3, that is entered as a 2.5. Instant is entered as 0.5 seconds.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.6 times • iPhone: 3.7 times • EVO: 2.8 times • Epic: 5.3 times • Torch: 6 times as fast.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.2 times • iPhone: 2.4 times • EVO: 1.8 times • Epic: 3.4 times • Torch: 3.8 times as fast.

    Comparing all four tests to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.6 times • iPhone: 5.8 times • EVO: 4.2 times • Epic: 8.2 times • Torch: 6.9 times as fast.

    Comparing all four tests to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4 times • iPhone: 3.5 times • EVO: 2.5 times • Epic: 5 times • Torch: 4.2 times as fast.

    Summary
    • These apps do not truly close on any of these phones.. The time to re-open is shorter.
    • Every other phone tested is multiple times faster than the Palm Pre overclocked to 1 GHz.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/30/2010 at 12:12 AM.
  5. #45  
    Why not test something like Angry Birds which is available on all 3 platforms? It's native to all 3 and it's a good sized app. You can test how long it takes to get through the load screen.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Why not test something like Angry Birds which is available on all 3 platforms? It's native to all 3 and it's a good sized app. You can test how long it takes to get through the load screen.
    We are comparing free apps that everyone might use on all four operating systems. Angry Birds is paid and not out on Android (beta) or BlackBerry.

    There are a lot of great games available for all four operating systems like Need for Speed. Try it out on the iPhone or Epic and compare it to our Pre. It's not just the speed or color depth.

    It is like comparing CGA to HD.

    With text and maps the display differences are not so stark.

    - Craig

    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/30/2010 at 09:38 AM.
  7.    #47  
    Thank you to everyone for your help!

    We have gotten 49 responses with 4 tests each covering 16 different phones/speeds.

    The initial opening speeds compared to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.9x • iPhone: 3.9x • EVO: 2.9x • Epic: 5.0x • Torch: 6.3x as fast as the stock Pre.

    The initial opening speeds compared to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.2x • iPhone: 2.4x • EVO: 1.8x • Epic: 3.1x • Torch: 3.9x as fast as the 1 GHz Pre.

    Comparing all four tests to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.9x • iPhone: 6.1x • EVO: 4.4x • Epic: 7.6x • Torch: 7.3x as fast as the stock Pre.

    Comparing all four tests to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.1x • iPhone: 3.6x • EVO: 2.6x • Epic: 4.5x • Torch: 4.3x as fast as the 1 GHz Pre.

    Other notes
    • The 2009 BlackBerry Storm and Bold at ~600 MHz are nearly twice as fast as a 1GHz Pre.
    • These apps do not truly close on any of these phones as evidenced by the faster re-open times.
    • Other phones tested were 1.8 to 4.2 times the speed of the Palm Pre overclocked to 1 GHz.

    Test Detail Report
    Code:
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	ID
    3	2	2	1	2.0	Bold	624	N	GoldBerryRocker
    2.03	2.08	3.74	2.84	2.7	Storm	528	N	vistate1
    2.17	0.62	2.13	0.74	1.4	Torch	624	N	Altarocks
    0.84	0.76	1.26	1.18	1.0	Torch	624	N	IchigoMochi
    1.76	1.56	2.45	2.39	2.0	Torch	624	N	LuvMyBB
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	N	estabancam
    1.5	0.5	4	1	1.8	Epic	1000	N	43
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	Y	estabancam
    1.5	1.5	2	1.5	1.6	Droid X	1000	Y	Kupe
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    3	1	5	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	N	Mdorty
    3	1	3	1	2.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Stokes
    4	0.5	4	1	2.4	HTC EVO	1000	N	Jerzyiroc 
    5	1.5	5	0.5	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	0.5	1.6	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	0.5	2	1	1.4	HTC EVO	1200	N	Jerzyiroc 
    2	0.5	2.5	0.5	1.4	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	N	Roo Zilla
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    14	7	12	17	12.5	Pixi	600	N	mattflick819
    11	10	22	16	14.8	Pixi	600	N	IcerC
    11	11	17	10	12.3	Pixi	600	N	nitu
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	12	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	45
    12	11	12	11	11.5	Pre	500	Y	45
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    4	5	15	10	8.5	Pre	1000	N	ChanceNC
    4	4	6	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	ChanceNC
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    6	5	10	9	7.5	Pre	1000	N	45
    3	3	6	5	4.3	Pre	1000	N	grizzley addams
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    5	3.5	5	5	4.6	Pre	1200	N	2sslow
    9	6	9	7	7.8	Pre +	500	N	HIYinOR
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    6	5	5	4	5.0	Pre +	1000	N	HIYinOR
    1.6	1.0	1.9	1.4	1.5	Torch	average		
    1.2	0.5	3.3	0.7	1.4	Epic	average		
    1.5	1.5	1.8	1.5	1.6	Droid X	average		
    3.2	0.7	2.5	0.7	1.8	iPhone4	average		
    3.7	1.0	4.0	1.0	2.4	HTC EVO	average		
    12.0	9.3	17.0	14.3	13.2	Pixi	average		
    11.4	10.6	11.0	10.2	10.8	500 Pre	average		
    7.5	5.5	12.0	7.5	8.1	800 Pre	average		
    4.7	4.2	9.1	7.3	6.3	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. A result of 2-3, was entered as a 2.5. "Instant" was entered as 0.5 seconds. Three users replied via PM and asked to not be identified.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/30/2010 at 12:06 PM.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    We are comparing free apps that everyone might use on all four operating systems. Angry Birds is paid and not out on Android (beta) or BlackBerry.

    There are a lot of great games available for all four operating systems like Need for Speed. Try it out on the iPhone or Epic and compare it to our Pre. It's not just the speed or color depth.

    It is like comparing CGA to HD.

    With text and maps the display differences are not so stark.
    Plus, Angry Birds just got a major resolution bump on iOS, doubling the size of the some of the assets.

    Do you think the camera app's worth including in this speed test?
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Plus, Angry Birds just got a major resolution bump on iOS, doubling the size of the some of the assets.

    Do you think the camera app's worth including in this speed test?
    Yikes!

    With an app like Fast Camera with one tap you don't just open the Camera App, you instantly take the picture.

    Mentioning the camera app also raises the rest of the camera comparison:
    • Autofocus vs. none
    • 3x (or 4x) Digital Zoom vs. none
    • 8 MP vs. 3 MP
    • Front camera
    • Photo Editing and effects

    I chose Facebook and Google Maps because the features of those apps are very similar across the platforms. The discussion could focus on speed, not the lack of basic features.

    The other big problem with mentioning the one and only webOS camera app is that the API's are locked down. The developers aren't allowed to do camera apps so you can't have cameras like: Camera 360, Camera Magic, Camera Pro, Camera ZOOM FX, Vignette. Some are frighteningly fast at taking a picture. And because of the camera API limitations we also can't have apps like Layar or Barcode Scanner.

    We really do not want to go there.

    As an aside, if I had a choice between webOS 2.0 and just having them open the API's I would take the open API's in a heartbeat.

    Open the camera API and you could have real camera apps.

    Open the audio API's and you could get a real music player like Music Player (Remix) or NanPlayer.

    Open the Mic API and you could have Shazam music recognition and Talk to Me speech translation.

    Instead of Voice Actions, they are telling us we get to Just Type. If you are trying to catch up to 2 years ago, don't put it in a press release.

    Even BlackBerry has voice recognition and voice commands...and a real camera...and a real music player...BlackBerry.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/30/2010 at 02:38 PM.
  10.    #50  
    We got a number of new data point today. The averages are holding which helps confirms the previous data.

    Here are the results:

    The initial opening speeds compared to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.9 x • iPhone: 3.9 x • EVO: 2.9 x • Epic: 5.2 x • Torch: 6.3 x as fast as the stock Pre.

    The initial opening speeds compared to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.1 x • iPhone: 2.4 x • EVO: 1.7 x • Epic: 3.1 x • Torch: 3.8 x as fast as the 1 GHz Pre.

    Comparing all four tests to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.8 x • iPhone: 6 x • EVO: 4.4 x • Epic: 7.7 x • Torch: 7.2 x as fast as the stock Pre.

    Comparing all four tests to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4 x • iPhone: 3.5 x • EVO: 2.5 x • Epic: 4.5 x • Torch: 4.1 x as fast as the 1 GHz Pre.

    Other notes
    • The 2009 BlackBerry Storm and Bold at ~600 MHz are nearly twice as fast as a 1GHz Pre.
    • These apps do not truly close on any of these phones as evidenced by the faster re-open times.
    • Other phones tested were 1.8 to 4.2 times the speed of the Palm Pre overclocked to 1 GHz.

    Code:
    								
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	ID
    3	2	2	1	2.0	Bold	624	N	GoldBerryRocker
    2.03	2.08	3.74	2.84	2.7	Storm	528	N	vistate1
    2.17	0.62	2.13	0.74	1.4	Torch	624	N	Altarocks
    0.84	0.76	1.26	1.18	1.0	Torch	624	N	IchigoMochi
    1.76	1.56	2.45	2.39	2.0	Torch	624	N	LuvMyBB
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	N	estabancam
    1	0.5	3.5	0.5	1.4	Epic	1000	N	ericdives
    1.5	1.5	2	0.5	1.4	Epic	1000	N	JonOvalie
    1	0.5	3	0.5	1.3	Epic	1000	Y	estabancam
    1.5	0.5	4	1	1.8	Epic	1000	N	43
    1	0.5	3.2	0.5	1.3	Epic	1200	N	zetterwing
    4	0.5	5	0.5	2.5	Epic	1200	N	sacwoo
    1.5	1.5	2	1.5	1.6	Droid X	1000	Y	Kupe
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    3	1	5	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	N	Mdorty
    3	1	3	1	2.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Stokes
    4	0.5	4	1	2.4	HTC EVO	1000	N	Jerzyiroc 
    5	1.5	5	0.5	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	0.5	1.6	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	0.5	2	1	1.4	HTC EVO	1200	N	Jerzyiroc 
    2	0.5	2.5	0.5	1.4	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	N	Roo Zilla
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    14	7	12	17	12.5	Pixi	500	N	mattflick819
    11	11	17	10	12.3	Pixi	500	N	nitu
    11	10	22	16	14.8	Pixi	500	N	IcerC
    6	5	110	45	41.5	Pixi	600	N	Delight33
    10	10	23	9	13.0	Pixi+	500	N	conozo
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	12	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	45
    12	11	12	11	11.5	Pre	500	Y	45
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    10	11	12	7	10.0	Pre	500	N	cowgirlupkelly
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    4	4	6	5	4.8	Pre	1000	N	noahisaac
    4	5	15	10	8.5	Pre	1000	N	ChanceNC
    4	4	6	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	ChanceNC
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    6	5	10	9	7.5	Pre	1000	N	45
    3	3	6	5	4.3	Pre	1000	N	grizzley addams
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    5	3.5	5	5	4.6	Pre	1200	N	2sslow
    9	6	9	7	7.8	Pre +	500	N	HIYinOR
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    6	5	5	4	5.0	Pre +	1000	N	HIYinOR
    1.6	1.0	1.9	1.4	1.5	Torch	average		
    1.2	0.7	3.1	0.6	1.4	Epic	average		
    1.5	1.5	1.8	1.5	1.6	Droid X	average		
    3.2	0.7	2.5	0.7	1.8	iPhone4	average		
    3.7	1.0	4.0	1.0	2.4	HTC EVO	average		
    12.0	9.3	17.0	14.3	13.2	Pixi	average		
    11.2	10.7	11.2	9.7	10.7	500 Pre	average
    7.5	5.5	12.0	7.5	8.1	800 Pre	average
    4.6	4.2	8.8	7.1	6.2	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. A result of 2-3, was entered as a 2.5. "Instant" was entered as 0.5 seconds.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 10/01/2010 at 04:57 PM.
  11. gharkay's Avatar
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    #51  
    I'm not quite sure what exactly you're trying to discover with this poll here since it's obvious that one would not buy a Pre if one's sole interest was fast app loading, but I do want to point out that Google Maps isn't really even a native app on webOS. As I understand it, it's more of a shortcut to a website. Basically all of the UI, in addition to the actual map, must be downloaded every time the app is loaded.

    The Pre is slow because it's running interpreted code as opposed to native code in many cases. Hybrid apps should change that, but until then, all webOS devices sacrifice speed for ease of coding and web integration. HTML/CSS-based apps can never be as fast as native apps on the same hardware. webOS is built for ease of use, deep cloud integration, ease of app development, UI consistency, easy multitasking (which is utterly ignored in this poll--why would someone buy a Pre if they didn't appreciate the card metaphor?), and excellent notification integration. What webOS is NOT designed for is speed. Hopefully the hardware one or two generations in the future will be fast enough to erase the perception of the inherent slowness of webOS, but until then the only speedy operations on a webOS device are switching between open apps and dealing with notifications.

    But those two things are enough to keep a Pre in my pocket at all times
  12. #52  
    hows the battery life on the pre's with 1ghz. overclock?
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel Donkey View Post
    ...The Pre is slow because it's running interpreted code as opposed to native code in many cases. Hybrid apps should change that, but until then, all webOS devices sacrifice speed for ease of coding and web integration. HTML/CSS-based apps can never be as fast as native apps on the same hardware. webOS is built for ease of use, deep cloud integration, ease of app development, UI consistency, easy multitasking (which is utterly ignored in this poll--why would someone buy a Pre if they didn't appreciate the card metaphor?), and excellent notification integration...
    DD,

    You are exactly right. The webOS concept is to make apps like web pages that your phone will re-interpret each time the app is opened. The phone then turns the Java and HTML/CSS into usable machine code on the fly. webOS is like giving the phone the ingredients for a half-baked cake and having it bake the cake every time you open the app. If you look at a webOS app, you can see most of code.

    Unfortunately this makes it pretty easy for someone to take your code. For instance, a 7-day trial program can be changed to seventy years. These inherent limitations are reasons some developers say is why they will not release their programs on webOS.

    Other platforms let a developer "compile" their program into machine code that can be tweaked and optimized. So you don't have to bake the cake each time each time you open an app. The developer can then optimize the final code putting the icing on the cake.

    That is how a BlackBerry with just as slow a processor can be four times as fast as a Pre.

    The theory was that although the code would be exposed and slow, webOS would get a huge number of apps because it would be so easy.

    Here are the standings:

    250,000 iPhone apps
    100,000 Android apps
    4,000 webOS apps

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 10/01/2010 at 11:16 AM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That is not a nit-pic, that is multitasking.

    On the iPhone 4, the typically user does not know that they are multitasking. They may open and close apps repeatedly during a day going instantly back where they left off. The iPhone freezes apps in a dormant state when you "close" them.

    The Android operating system does a similar thing. "Closed" apps are also really just placed in a dormant state. An app like SystemPanel will show these dormant apps as taking a few seconds of clock cycles an hour.

    It's comparable to how a modern laptop can hibernate for days or weeks when the top is closed. Open it and it opens where you left off.

    Multitasking on the Pre requires that you keep every app "card" open or your pending work and place will be lost. At first it is weird to use an iPhone or Android phone because you are used to doing the multitasking by hand.

    - Craig
    zulfaqar621 is correct, this is a somewhat bogus comparison. The fact that people don't use the webOS multitasking in a optimal fashion does not negate it's ability.

    If the point is that webOS (running uncompiled code) is slower than some of the other OS'es, that is OK but well known to most gearheads who inhabit these pages. But when you decide that because 'the soccor mom' users don't use webOs multitasking properly - you put an unreasonable restriction on the test.

    (Note: Not saying you can't do it... so don't flag me, just saying you handcuff webOS by taking one of it's features off the table.)

    It would as because I didn't know how to locate my cursor in text field when using my Droid2, (and yes, I use both OS'es... and Blackberry too) I complained about how hard it is to position my cursor using android OS as compared to Apple's iOS.

    I leave my cards minimized all the time. Started doing it to cut down startup time on the 'Classic" app. It's the only way to fly, in my opinion. My only suggestion to Palm would be to have the minimized cards run at the bottom of the screen or on a separate launcher page. But it's not a big deal to me as I don't spend a lot of time looking at the desktop, I'm usually in an application.

    About as logical comparing an 18 month old phone to the latest offering on other platforms and pretending it's a fair 'fight'.

    But to cut you a break, the "PalmPhone-istas" who insist on jumping into those debates and insisting that the near 2 year old Pre is as good as a newer hardware running Android or Apple OS'es is pretty sad too.

    HP, we really need a new phone, before this site turns into a black hole an sucks us all into a parallel universe.
  15. mike5's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    By open I mean from when you tap the icon until the app fully opens and is usable. I added that to the OP.

    - Craig
    Thanks for having us run the tests & for posting the results. I know w/my Pre, I stopped the "timer" when the blue circle swirling finished. I assumed that was fully uploaded, but the apps are usable before that sometimes.

    Also, I just reran them using WiFi vs 3g & times were cut significantly--still not as fast as the other phones, but about 40-50% quicker than previously reported--especially google maps. I didn't see how you distinguished between 3g, 4g, and wifi. Did you?

    Again thanks for running the tests, publishing results & giving a logical explanation as to why the Pre takes a bit longer to load.
  16. mike5's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    No, this is to simulate how a real-world soccer dad or mom on the sidelines of a game would do it.

    Open each app and close them just like a real world phone user would. The reality is that they may open and close the same texting app twenty times in an hour. During a game, they may open and close Facebook, texting, email, music, internet, weather, calendar, YouTube, maps, and camera apps over and over again. The one thing their phone will probably not do is ring.

    This is to simulate the real-world usage for a regular joe-sixpack target customer.

    - Craig
    I know I am coming back to this discussion late. I participated in the testing, but didn't see the results until today. W/my Pre, I simply don't close my texting app so there is no need to open & close it 20 times. In fact, I was just carrying on texting conversations w/3 different buddies. I never closed & reopened the app. I did switch between conversations but that was instantaneous.

    Now google maps I do close when not in use, but stuff I use a lot, I simply keep open. For example, last night I was at my niece's theater arts thing--I simply had ESPN open to covering the Rangers/Yankees baseball game live. I never closed & reopened the app. It remained open & I looked at it every couple minutes to see my Rangers dominating the Yankees!

    Anyway, that is how I use my Pre...in the real world.
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