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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    So you are allowing Android and iPhone to multitask but dont want to allow webOS the same. All are capable of it, why hinder webOS.
    Yeah, I hear ya and have mixed feelings on this as well. On the one hand, webOS is designed for manual multi-tasking which cannot be used in this test. On the other had, for the year+ that I used my Pre, I closed apps when I was done with them the vast majority of the time. It's the way my wife, mom and brother use their Pres to this day.

    So I don't know. There was aslo a poll on P|C that showed the vast majority of P|C visitors didn't leave many apps open. I can't remember if the poll was before or after the Plus versions arrived however.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Apparently only for webOS.
    The average soccer mom or dad has never heard of a task killer. Even if they had, they would never use it. Imagine any normal user ever thinking, "I wonder what tasks are running?"

    We here are the few, the proud, the nerds. What we will never be is typical.

    AndroidCentral strongly recommends against using task killer because testing seems to prove that Task Killers consume more battery than they save.

    I have tested battery life with and without a variety of task killers and can find no difference.

    "Tasks Killers - fun for nerds, useless in the real world."

    Please just open and close the apps for the test like a real person who has never heard of a process, just "processed" as in cheese. If they want to open an app, they open it. When they want to do something else, they close it.

    - Craig
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    2. and 4. The iPhone 4 doesn't really close the program completely out. This is iOS4 multitasking. This would be equivalent to a webOS phone leaving the app running going to another app and switching back to the app card. re-open for webOS would also be instant.

    I know this might seem like me nit-picking but these distinctions are relevant to how responsive the OS's truly are.
    Nope. When I ran this (my numbers are in the other thread) I physically closed the app, not just went to another application (meaning the maps were not visible, or facebook was not visible). I actually shut down facebook and maps before I re-opened.

    And i had similar numbers (though I said "1 second" instead of "instant")


    And on a side note, comparing my SOs Pre to my 3GS was painful: granted, I didn't have his overclocked, but my 3GS wasn't either.

    It was simply painful to wait 10 seconds to open a map.
  4. #24  
    10 seconds at best. Mine would take over damn near 30 seconds at time...or sometimes just refuse to open up the map.
  5.    #25  
    Here are the initial results after 22 tests:

    Code:
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	Sample
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    5	1.5	5	1	3.1	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	1	1.8	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	1	2.5	1	1.6	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	1	2	1	1.5	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    3.5	1.0	2.6	1.0	2.0	iPhone4	average		
    4.0	1.1	4.0	1.3	2.6	HTC EVO	average		
    11.0	10.0	10.3	9.7	10.3	500 Pre	average		
    7.8	5.6	13.4	8.2	8.8	800 Pre	average		
    5.0	4.2	9.0	7.4	6.4	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. If the results was 2-3, that is entered as a 2.5. Instant is entered as 1 second.

    Analysis of these tests so far
    • The iPhone 4 averages 5 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 3.2 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    • The EVO averages 4 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 2.5 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    • When a card is closed on the Palm Pre the app is truly closed and takes almost as long to re-open.
    • The iPhone and Android phones make closed apps dormant when they are closed so re-open times are much faster.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/29/2010 at 03:36 PM.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    And i had similar numbers (though I said "1 second" instead of "instant")
    To me, saying "1 second" rather than "instant" almost feels like it doesn't do justice to the results I'm seeing. Everything is just there as soon as I touch the icons to launch the apps. If I had to figure out some sort of numeric value to assign, it would be more in the milliseconds than anything.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Analysis of these tests so far
    • The iPhone 4 averages 5 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 3.2 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    • The EVO averages 4 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 2.5 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    • When a card is closed on the Palm Pre the app is truly closed and takes almost as long to re-open.
    • The iPhone and Android phones make closed apps dormant when they are closed so re-open times are much faster.
    Another analysis point:

    This sugests that webOS in its current state, if placed on better hardware, may not perform as well as many assume.
    Last edited by taharka; 09/29/2010 at 03:52 PM.
  8. #28  
    just for argument sake shouldnt you test applications like sms, phone, or email as apposed to facebook and googlemaps. For one Google maps we all know on the pre is hindered due to lack of update, and is under optimized, and that facebook has alot of applications you can choose from on each OS. Also 3rd party applications is not really a fair testing ground for mobile devices. To me, even though a sms, email, or phone application is foreign between each OS (meaning all are built intended for that paticular OS) why not compare speeds between these basic stock functions, not 3rd party applications?
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    To me, saying "1 second" rather than "instant" almost feels like it doesn't do justice to the results I'm seeing. Everything is just there as soon as I touch the icons to launch the apps. If I had to figure out some sort of numeric value to assign, it would be more in the milliseconds than anything.
    OK, how about if I go back to the "instant" results and make them 0.5 seconds? It is already a bloodbath.

    - Craig
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post

    Please just open and close the apps for the test like a real person who has never heard of a process, just "processed" as in cheese. If they want to open an app, they open it. When they want to do something else, they close it.

    - Craig
    Like I said in an earlier post, I will just refrain from participating in this poll.

    I think it is not fair to compare re-open times of android, iphone to Palm Pre since these are absolutely not the same process. What you call re-open in android and iphone is multitasking. Your data points though misrepresent this aspect and therefore are of no comparative value in reference to the Palm Pre.

    Good luck with your poll.
  11. #31  
    Real World Speed Test (all apps closed by task manager at start):
    1. Time to open Facebook: 1 - 2 seconds
    2. Time to re-open Facebook: 1 - 2 seconds (re-started after app closed by task manager)
    3. Time to open Google Maps: 2 seconds (map displayed)
    4. Time to re-open Google Maps: 2 seconds (map displayed and app restarted after app closed by task manager)

    5. Phone make and model: Droid X
    6. If Overclocked, Speed: 1 ghz (not over-clocked)

    3G only, not wifi.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder
    The Android operating system does a similar thing. "Closed" apps are also really just placed in a dormant state. An app like SystemPanel will show these dormant apps as taking a few seconds of clock cycles an hour.
    Like webOS, it depends on the app. Google Nav continues calling out turns when in the background, Dolphin Browser/Android Market continue downloading in the background, Co-Pilot Nav functions in the background, etc. Other apps like games and slingplayer do pause.

    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder
    AndroidCentral strongly recommends against using task killer because testing seems to prove that Task Killers consume more battery than they save.
    Depends a lot on what apps are running in the background you might want killed. For example, running Google Maps in the background (and/or Nav) will eat your battery alive (with or without GPS on). Other apps are completely dormant and don't matter. What AndroidCentral should say is the average user (i.e Joe bag-o-donuts) will probably not gain anything using a task killer.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Like I said in an earlier post, I will just refrain from participating in this poll.

    I think it is not fair to compare re-open times of android, iphone to Palm Pre since these are absolutely not the same process. What you call re-open in android and iphone is multitasking. Your data points though misrepresent this aspect and therefore are of no comparative value in reference to the Palm Pre.

    Good luck with your poll.
    I did my tests from a complete app shutdown each time if you want to compare silently offline.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    Another analysis point:

    This sugests that webOS in its current state, if placed on better hardware, may not perform as well as many assume.
    Actually the only fair data point which is the first open of facebook shows that a Palm Pre at 1GHz is 1.4x slower than an iphone 4 and 1.25x slower than HTC EVO.

    The Palm Pre at 800MHz is 1.56x slower than an iphone4.

    The re-open data is pointless as I have indicated above and the data for GMaps is also pointless since we all know that GMaps is hampered on the Palm Pre. GMaps load times are know by everyone here to be an anomaly in how long it takes to load.

    So this isn't quite the bloodbath it is being painted out to be. Definitely shows optimization is needed of webOS but not as insane as some here would like to portray it.
    Last edited by zulfaqar621; 09/29/2010 at 04:48 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I did my tests from a complete app shutdown each time if you want to compare silently offline.
    Not necessary. But I appreciate the effort towards parity. Besides my Pre is OC to 1.2GHz wont really be a fair comparison.

    Interesting how your numbers are not instant for re-open. I wonder why? (rhetorical)
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Interesting how your numbers are not instant for re-open. I wonder why? (rhetorical)
    I'm a little curious about that myself. Slightly slower RAM access speed, maybe?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Interesting how your numbers are not instant for re-open. I wonder why? (rhetorical)
    Why would they be? I completely removed the program from memory between tests. The times are definitely 'instant' when I task-switch to an already running program.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Here are the initial results after 22 tests:

    Code:
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	Sample
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    5	1.5	5	1	3.1	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	1	1.8	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	1	2.5	1	1.6	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	1	2	1	1.5	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    3.5	1.0	2.6	1.0	2.0	iPhone4	average		
    4.0	1.1	4.0	1.3	2.6	HTC EVO	average		
    11.0	10.0	10.3	9.7	10.3	500 Pre	average		
    7.8	5.6	13.4	8.2	8.8	800 Pre	average		
    5.0	4.2	9.0	7.4	6.4	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. If the results was 2-3, that is entered as a 2.5. Instant is entered as 1 second.

    Analysis of these tests so far
    The iPhone 4 averages 5 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 3.2 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    The EVO averages 4 times the speed of the stock Palm Pre and 2.5 times the speed of the 1 GHz Pre.
    When a card is closed on the Palm Pre the app is truly closed and takes almost as long to re-open.
    The iPhone and Android phones make closed apps dormant when they are closed so re-open times are much faster.
    I have a Pre + BTW, it's just hacked to be on Sprint.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  18.    #38  
    Here are updated results showing "instant" and "less than aq second" as 0.5 seconds. Also we have a couple of new test results in.

    Code:
    Open FB	Re-open	Open GM	Re-open	Average	Phone	Speed	Reboot	Sample
    1.5	1.5	2	1.5	1.6	Droid X	1000	Y	Kupe
    1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	1.5	Droid X	1000	N	dvader
    4	1	5	2	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	milo
    4	1	4	1	2.5	HTC EVO	1000	Y	milo
    3	1	5	1		HTC EVO	1000	N	Mdorty
    5	1.5	5	0.5	3.0	HTC EVO	1000	N	Brain Mantis
    3	1	2	0.5	1.6	HTC EVO	1000	Y	Brain Mantis
    2	0.5	2.5	0.5	1.4	iPhone4	800	N	finngirl
    2	0.5	2	0.5	1.3	iPhone4	800	Y	finngirl
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	N	nappy
    5	1	3	1	2.5	iPhone4	800	Y	nappy
    13	12	11	11	11.8	Pre	500	N	milo
    12	12	10	10	11.0	Pre	500	Y	milo
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	500	Y	Garrett
    6	4	8	5	5.8	Pre	800	Y	Garrett
    10	5	21	13	12.3	Pre	800	N	Mike5
    6	9	22	14	12.8	Pre	800	N	igobytony
    8	6	10	8	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Rush
    2	2	7	6	4.3	Pre	1000	N	NickDG
    5	5	10	8	7.0	Pre	1000	Y	12
    6	5	11	10	8.0	Pre	1000	N	Mike5
    4	3	7	5	4.8	Pre	1000	Y	Garrett
    10	4	10	4	7.0	Pre +	800	N	Cantaffordit
    7	6	6	5	6.0	Pre +	800	N	smmullen
    1.5	1.5	1.8	1.5	1.6	Droid X	average		
    3.5	0.8	2.6	0.8	1.9	iPhone4	average		
    3.8	1.1	4.2	1.0	2.5	HTC EVO	average		
    11.0	10.0	10.3	9.7	10.3	500 Pre	average		
    7.8	5.6	13.4	8.2	8.8	800 Pre	average		
    5.0	4.2	9.0	7.4	6.4	1G Pre	average
    FB = Facebook, GM = Google Maps. If the results was 2-3, that is entered as a 2.5. Instant is entered as 1 second.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.6 times • iPhone: 3.5 times • EVO: 2.7 times as fast as a stock Pre.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.3 times • iPhone: 2.3 times • EVO: 1.8 times as fast as a 1 GHz Overclocked Pre.

    Based on the averages for all four opening tests for each phone:
    • The Droid X averages 6.6 times the speed of a stock Palm Pre and 4.1 times the speed of a 1 GHz Pre.
    • The iPhone 4 averages 5.4 times the speed of a stock Palm Pre and 3.4 times the speed of a 1 GHz Pre.
    • The EVO averages 4.1 times the speed of a stock Palm Pre and 2.5 times the speed of a 1 GHz Pre.

    These apps don't really "close" on any of these phones
    • When these apps are closed on the Pre, they are not completely closed. The time to re-open is not as long.
    • iPhone and Android make closed apps dormant when they are closed so re-open times are much faster.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/29/2010 at 05:24 PM.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Actually the only fair data point which is the first open of facebook shows that a Palm Pre at 1GHz is 1.4x slower than an iphone 4 and 1.25x slower than HTC EVO...
    We can look at it that way as well. I added these calculations to the chart:

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the stock Pre:
    • Droid X: 6.6 times • iPhone: 3.5 times • EVO: 2.7 times as fast as a stock Pre.

    Comparing just the initial opening speeds to the 1 GHz Overclocked Pre:
    • Droid X: 4.3 times • iPhone: 2.3 times • EVO: 1.8 times as fast as a 1 GHz Overclocked Pre.

    So a 1GHz Droid X is on average 4.3 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre. An 800 MHz iPhone is on average 2.3 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre. A 1GHz EVO is on average 1.8 times as fast at opening Facebook and Google Maps as a 1 GHz Pre.

    It's like the 1GHz Droid X is running at a comparable 4.3 GHz.

    Would that would seem to indicate that the differences are not just in clock speed?

    We know that Palm can optimize code when they want to. The webOS 1.04 phone app took nearly 10 seconds to open. Now the webOS phone app is on a par with Android or iOS.

    - Craig
  20. #40  
    Now seeing what you have done with the numbers, I don't think it is fair to include Google Maps as a performance measure. There is something wrong with the code which is slowing it down.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
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