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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I can understand not being a fan of Apple's products but to say that the products their competitors are making aren't influenced by Apple's design process is a difficult point to argue.
    Any commercially successful product is going to influence competitor products. The point being made is that Apple implies that their products aren't influenced by anything, hence the "revolutionary" title to EVERYTHING.

    Which is a blatant lie.

    I personally know (and for some reason, still talk to) people who swear that Apple INVENTED (yes, invented) the first smartphone. As well as things like software UI, USB, etc. Unfortunately Apple propaganda is very compelling and implies a lot, which the average consumer picks up on without realizing, and believes without researching. That and the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" which was Apple propaganda and made Microsoft (Bill Gates) just look like a pathetic crook. I'm no Microsoft phanboi, but... sheesh.
    Last edited by SirataXero; 09/29/2010 at 08:04 PM.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    Any commercially successful product is going to influence competitor products. The point being made is that Apple implies that their products aren't influenced by anything, hence the "revolutionary" title to EVERYTHING.

    Which is a blatant lie.
    Yup.

    Thank god Apple was influenced by BlackBerries, swivel tablets and mid-tower desktops.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The original iMac and iBook DID start a revolution in style. Until that point, PCs were incredibly sterile in design because that was the way computers had always been designed. They may look ridiculous in 2010 but Apple's existence today can be traced directly back to the introduction of the iMac.
    Not just in 2010, I was aware when they introduced them and they looked ridiculous then too.
  4.    #44  
    Hey, everybody... BREAK IT UP!!

    Clearly, there is more Apple hate in this community than Palm love. That is certainly the case in this thread. Just remember, anti-brand hatred is the other side of the brand loyalty coin. You gain no high-ground by pretending to be neutral. It is clear that neutrality is the exception rather than the rule.

    I opened this thread with the foolish intent to have a reasonable discussion about what's good about the companies we support. I provided a bit of insight into my own, personal workings. Instead of responding in kind, there is just a bunch of bickering about why Apple is evil, or not evil.

    SCREW YOU ALL!!!

    I feel better, now.

    Perhaps some nice mod will come along and lock this thread.

    Everybody, go to your room!
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Hey, everybody... BREAK IT UP!!

    Clearly, there is more Apple hate in this community than Palm love. That is certainly the case in this thread. Just remember, anti-brand hatred is the other side of the brand loyalty coin. You gain no high-ground by pretending to be neutral. It is clear that neutrality is the exception rather than the rule.

    I opened this thread with the foolish intent to have a reasonable discussion about what's good about the companies we support. I provided a bit of insight into my own, personal workings. Instead of responding in kind, there is just a bunch of bickering about why Apple is evil, or not evil.

    SCREW YOU ALL!!!

    I feel better, now.

    Perhaps some nice mod will come along and lock this thread.

    Everybody, go to your room!
    My apologies OP.

    I completely agree with you (in my own personal case) that brand hatred runs deeper than brand loyalty (for me at least). Just as a side note: I don't consider myself neutral. Clearly. .

    Sorry for hijacking your thread and diverting it to Apple bashing.

    Your post was probably one of the ONLY logical and reasonable (somewhat) excuse of Apple loyalty i've read.
  6. #46  
    The only bash i made was on their FisherPrice style phase.

    The rest was simply stating facts.
  7. #47  
    Apple as a company would be gone or really struggling if they had not figured out how to make the best digital music player ever. The iPod saved apple IMO. I've had four. my daughter has a touch.

    But let's talk laptops for a min. I can buy a PC laptop for ~$700 that blows the $1700 MacBook Pro away for specs. They come with loads of software, but as has been mentioned, there is sourceforge... Also, how many ppl have loaded OSX on their PC, or want to. How many mac users have parallels or some other windows emulator?

    The iPhone is a good phone, but I don't like the fact that Apple locks it down. Any time a new jailbreak comes out, Apple gets to work on re locking it.


    I own:
    Dell, HP, and compac laptops
    all custom built PCs [two]
    2 pre's
    a 2 gig nano [haven't used it for weeks, now my wife has it]
    a 4 gig mini [just died]
    an iPad. [My boss bought it for me.]

    I also run win7 and linux depending on the app.

    MACs don't crash? That's FALSE! I've seen it repeatedly.

    Lastly, At work, we have a MAC G5 that only lasted 1 year. Paid $4000 for the box and $1800 for the monitor. And even with a $1500 AVID software, I think the "MAC" person who used it produced a half dozen videos. We still can't get it to work. The IT guys tried everything. At the same time I built a PC for $2300 which lasted 6 years, where the $400 Premier pro software produced hundreds of edited videos in it's life.

    Having said that, I use the iPad, but not as much as I thought I would. It's still a great music player, web browser, but when I want to get some work done, I goto my laptop. I like the iPad, but it's not giving me the productivity I am looking for, not even close. One thing they did do right is the battery. I think it's like 26000 mAh. That's cool. The Pre should really have about 1/10th of that, and the PalmPad better compare to the iPad in power.

    It's not that I hate Apple, I don't. It's that I'm a tweaker, and apples don't like being tweaked.
    I don't love the fact that Palm was in limbo for several years, but I feel like it's on the way wo quite a comeback. There is room for all four major smartphone OSs. look at the number of people that don't have a smartphone, but plan to buy one.
    IIIXE>Clie:N710C>N760C>NX60>Treo[600>650>700]>Centro>Pre+>Pre2&Touchpad 32GB
    webOS Themes: star-trek-universe star-trek-future Future Trek for Tpad

    My CV: http://visualcv.com/egadgetguy
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    First, this thread is not intended to be flame bait, so put those flamethrowers down. This is not about why you hate some other company, unless that is the only reason for your current loyalty.

    Everyone around here knows that I am an Apple supporter, for the most part. What you may not know is that has not always been the case. I bought my first Mac in 2002, and never looked back.

    Before that, I was all Windows, all the time. I settled for most MS solutions. I owned a Creative MP3 player. I even owned Palm-based products. Did I mention HP? In other words, I was an average tech consumer. I used some of everything and cared about spec-sheets and price. I was loyal to nothing.

    That all changed when I bought my first Mac. The hardware and OS were filled with so many little touches of class and usability, the experience was miles ahead of anything I had ever used before. Apple clearly thought about the end user in ways that other companies didn't.

    I didn't jump on the iPod right away. I couldn't understand why I should ditch my Creative player. The Price and spec-sheet didn't add up. I eventually used one. Suddenly, it all made sense in ways that did not show up on a spec-sheet. Bag on iTunes all you like. It revolutionized music management on a computer. Again, Apple's attention to detail won me over.

    When the iPhone was first announced, I had no interest. I was an unhappy Sprint customer, but figured that all phones and all carriers were equally bad. In some ways, I was pushed into the iPhone because Sprint was so bad, I just couldn't stand it. Apple provided an alternative to the way things were done in that industry. Think back on the pre-iPhone days. It was bad. I bought my first iPhone and never looked back.

    Hello, iPad.

    Along the way, Apple introduced a complete screen-reader for the blind into their Mac OS. They, then, did the same thing for all iPhones. They care a great deal about accessibility, much more so than any other company I have ever dealt with. They do not make you pay extra for add-ons, or struggle with third-party solutions. They took responsibility and made sure everything they built was accessible to everyone. Go Apple!

    Finally, there is a reason customer satisfaction numbers for Apple are through the roof in every poll. I will just share my latest experience. Because of something stupid I did, I completely bricked my iPad.

    I called the nearest Apple Store last night and told them I bricked my iPad by doing something stupid. They said to bring it in anyway. They tried to reset it using their tools, but could not. It had to do with the UDID#. After trying for about an hour, they gave up and told me that it could not be repaired. It was well and truly bricked. Yes, that is most definitely possible.

    They knew what I did to it, but did not give me a hard time. They told me they would consider it a hardware issue under warranty, and just gave me a brand new one, no refurb. I was shocked. I reiterated that the damage was my fault and was in no way a warranty issue. They assured me that they knew, but just wanted to make me happy. I was almost brought to tears. My wife was equally shocked and giddy.

    This is the stuff of brand loyalty. Apple gained mine the old fashioned way: they earned it. I get he feeling that a lot of brand loyalty is because that company or product is anti-Apple. That is just sad. I would hope there are better reasons. So, have at it. What makes you so loyal to your company of choice?
    I like the palm logo, it is now comforting to me, I would be mad if they changed it to hp. I used to like toyota til they changed the logo and I didn't understand what is was supposed to be so no more toyota. Also if there are several apps that do the same thing I chose the one with the best icon. Right now I am loyal to palm because the treo 650 was the first phone that made sense to me and I stuck with them ever since.
  9. #49  
    For most people on this forum brand loyalty is allowed - as long as it's not for Apple.

    A key question remains unanswered: a lot of people are waiting for the next gen Pre. Why? Is it because of their experience with Palm (aka brand loyalty) or is because of their experience with WebOS (aka product loyalty)? What is it about this experience - brand or product related - that makes people willing to wait and give Palm the benefit of doubt? How was it earned?
  10. #50  
    I guess I scared off everyone:-)
  11. #51  
    wait there is no iOS doctor? has anyone bricked their pre beyond doctoring?
  12. #52  
    I have pretty much zero brand loyalty when it comes to most things. I've had macs, pcs, ipods, playstations. xboxes. i use windows, foreign cars, American cars. I honestly really don't care for a lot of things. i go with value and execution. Sometimes i'll pay extra for quality. Sometimes what others thing is higher quality matters not to me so i won't pay a premium. Like I have a Palm Pre but i have zero loyalty to palm. I got a canon printer. i don't care about Canon. I will be a repeat customer if something meets my needs. And it will end when that product stops meeting my needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I get he feeling that a lot of brand loyalty is because that company or product is anti-Apple.
    i think there are plenty of current Palm users that were looking for something that is anti apple. That are crusaders against apple. By contrast i think there are a lot of people that like apple products but either didn't want to pay the cost of At&t, where contracted to another network, or some other reason that got an alternative phone not cause they hate iphone but because they needed a similar alternative. They don't want something unlike a apple product they want something closer to it. that does what it does but at a cheaper price or on a different network or something.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 10/03/2010 at 02:46 AM.
  13.    #53  
    Blackmagic, it seems to be the in-thing to claim no brand loyalty. Most such claims around here, on a fan-site, ring somewhat hollow. I will concede that it is possible to have no loyalty if you believe all products are equally crap. After naming the many brands of products you have, you stated that you did not like any of them.

    There was certainly a time when I did not consciously like any particular brand, as I was disappointed by almost everything I bought, and was convinced that it was all the same rebranded garbage at different price-points. That is somewhat true in the commodity, bargain basement category. When I decided to try something a little up-market, I learned that in some things, you really do get what you pay for.

    As I stated earlier, brand hate is the other side of the same coin. It does not put a person on any higher ground than the loyalist. It is hard to imagine you have not found a brand you hate, and would not purchase again without a truly compelling reason.

    If every HP or Dell box you purchased had poor quality and attention to detail, I would thing you would avoid those companies. If you got a bad haircut from more than one Super Cuts, you might avoid that chain. It takes less time to develop brand hate than brand loyalty. It is only natural that we develop both over time.

    Let me reiterate; there is nothing wrong with being a Palm loyalist, or an HP loyalist, or a Google loyalist, or an Apple loyalist. The only interesting thing is how that company earned your loyalty. The fact that most people seem to have a hard time expressing the reason for their loyalty in positive terms suggests that negativity for another brand is at the dark core.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Blackmagic, it seems to be the in-thing to claim no brand loyalty. Most such claims around here, on a fan-site, ring somewhat hollow.
    I don't know what is in cause honestly your OP was the only post in the thread i read. But to be clear i also said "most things." Like i drink starbucks. It doesn't mean i don't or wont' drink Petes. I like the taste better. Same with Coke over Pepsi. I'm not a (PHan-Bo1) of anything. but especially not a (PHan-Bo1) of any electronic product like a phone or a video game or something. Like i used to have a playstation and like the video Game GTA. I didn't buy an original xbox cause it wasn't on there not cause i had something against Xbox. Then the game was, along with others and i bought a 360. I dont' have a PS3. Not cause i'm an xbox (PHan-Bo1) but it's too expensive and i don't like the games. I played the last GTA and didn't like it so now i even don't like the GTA games. not cause of some loyalty but cause it's just not fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    After naming the many brands of products you have, you stated that you did not like any of them.
    That was VERY MUCH A TYPO. It should NOT have read that i don't care for things. In fact i've had good experiences with every one of those products i mentioned. it should have read something like "I honestly really don't care about the specific brand of a lot of things." That was my error. i was editing two sentences at and lost my place and screwed up my thought. But i wasn't remotely trying to say i didn't like anything or those things. i meant to say i've been happy with lots of products.


    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    It is hard to imagine you have not found a brand you hate, and would not purchase again without a truly compelling reason.
    Well i'm not a (PHan-Bo1) . I don't like (PHan-Bo1) arguments which tend not to be rational or well reasoned. I'm not talking about someone that, say, prefers webos over itunes cause they like the webos u.i., i'm talking about those whose only argument is, "something sucks" be it webos, ios, android.


    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    If every HP or Dell box you purchased had poor quality and attention to detail, I would thing you would avoid those companies.
    Then i'm not buying another computer from them because like i said it doesn't satisfy my needs. It was poor quality. It's not cause of the brand name. And i wouldn't exclude buying another HP computer if i the quality improved. But in your example there is a very rational reason for not buying a product. Which is very different the blind brand loyalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    If you got a bad haircut from more than one Super Cuts, you might avoid that chain.
    Yeah, you might but i think it makes much more sense to avoid the barber cause that's why the haircut sucked not the brand supercuts. You'd be better off avoiding the barber. But again that's not blind loyalty like you often see in this forum that's a rational reason. It didn't satisfy your needs. in your situation you got a crappy hair cut. That said I can't truly speak from personal experience. I've always ONLY gone to mom and pop barbers in the hood (Think Barbershop the movie), or i shave my own head. I when i did the same dude cut my hair. Every time, without fail. Cause of quality not cause of some brand.
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Let me reiterate; there is nothing wrong with being a Palm loyalist, or an HP loyalist, or a Google loyalist, or an Apple loyalist.
    Rational loyalty is fine. Blind loyalty and irrational crusading haters is a (PHan-Bo1) issue and i don't care for (PHan-Bo1s) of any kind. I don't believe in blind loyalty. I believe in people making rational arguments for or against a point of view. I believe in looking at a bigger picture.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 10/03/2010 at 10:54 PM.
  15. eps1lon3's Avatar
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    #55  
    First mac in 02? Sounds like the last windows you used was ME...

    On a more serious note, thats totally fine. Whatever works for people is what they should use.
  16.    #56  
    Brand loyalty or hatred is just a form of shorthand that allows us to make decisions about the products we buy without knowing everything about them. How long does it take to know if something like a cell phone is right for you? It takes a whole lot longer than the time you get to play with it in the store. You have to have a basis for your decision that goes beyond your absolute knowledge of the device. That is branding.

    I have a history of experiences with Apple and their products. I know what to expect from them, and I am happy with that. I also know what to expect from HP, Palm, MS, Google, and their race-to-the-bottom partners.

    That does not mean that my loyalties can't change. They already have. I was not born trusting Apple, quite the opposite. Apple earned my trust and satisfaction. My loyalties change as I develop more experiences. That is how we humans operate. We learn to recognize patters, and we make decisions based on the accumulative patterns we assimilate. That is the basis of branding.
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