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  1. flunkn's Avatar
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       #1  
    My original Pre finally bit the dust. I used Black Tie to get a refurb'd unit but BB wouldn't budge and exchanged me to the Epic. Some observations:

    Palm OS is waaaay nicer than Android. Android is bulky and a PITA to navigate around in. I really miss my Pre because of this. Having cards is a beautiful thing and with Android you need to access a task manager to turn anything off (which then runs in the background, eating battery life. Note: being a newbie I may be missing something on this.) Accessing anything involves multiple buttons and icons in both directions. Pre hands down for OS.

    The hardware itself literally blows the Pre away. I just used my wife's Pre and I can't believe how cheap it feels and how tiny it is (which I didn't mind before, but now cannot go back to inferior hardware.) There are some really nice functions on the Epic/Android system which far surpass the Pre, even with homebrew. The Pre does, however, give you much more control of settings for the device itself, which is part of the OS equation.

    I have my fingers crossed for a new HPalm device (I still have my upgrade available from Sprint...bonus) because I will go back in a heartbeat. Until then, I will enjoy using the superior hardware and more mature features of Android and bide my time.

    One other thing: The Pre community is in class of its own, something I will miss, as well.
  2. #2  
    my fingers are crossed for some new hardware too. fortunately, a plan i had to trade in my beat up pre for another one while i was still inside the last month of my one year mark worked out perfectly. no oreo even! lol

    i've been using friend's android phones more and more recently, since more and more people keep getting them, and i'm totally with you on the software. there are all kinds of neat apps, yeah. (most of which while being super neat, are also kind of gimmicky to me, and very niche.) but, as you pointed out, using android kind of sucks. i actually enjoy just interacting with webOS. it's a bit strange to say that about a mobile OS, but it's true.

    some things just feel cool to do. for example, snowboarding. sure, you can take a sled to get down a snowy hill, or even stand up on it and still get to the bottom. but snowboarding just feels so great to do!

    plus one on the webOS community!
  3. #3  
    Not sure why new comers to Android think you must have a task manager but the truth of the matter is: YOU DON'T

    Actually, running a task manager is detrimental to your device. Causes it to under-perform and battery life is worse. Let Android do to the "task management" for you. With WebOS task management is manual as in you have to flick away cards. Android it's completely automatic. When you minimize an app it's not using any memory or CPU unless it is designed to (take Facebook or a Twitter for example that is set to incrementally check for new notifications).
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    If task management is detrimental why is it there? I don't even see how that is possibl.Pressing back multiple times to make an app close is such a pain and having them run in the background expecting
    the OS to manage it isn't the best option. Some apps have an option to exit and some don't leaving the only option to continualy pressing back. SO many people complain about battery life on android deices already. It even says in the instructions to use the program monitor to end apps running in the background to save on battery life.
    Hit the home button, that's all you need to do. If an app isn't set up to poll services in the background you've nothing to worry about. Just like with WebOS many Android users set their applications to poll for new notifications every 5, 10, 15, etc. minutes and when you have a lot of applications that are set up with said configuration your battery life isn't going to be all that great.

    The best thing you can do to get maximum battery life is minimize the sync time of Android and applications (Menu > Applications & Sync).

    Right now, I get on average about 1 day 6 hours between charges on my Evo.
  5. #5  
    It's OK - you can come back when HPalm gets around to offering new HW. Probably just after the holidays...
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlangley21 View Post
    It's OK - you can come back when HPalm gets around to offering new HW. Probably just after the holidays...
    More like sometime after CES.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by flunkn View Post
    I really miss my Pre because of this. Having cards is a beautiful thing and with Android you need to access a task manager to turn anything off (which then runs in the background, eating battery life. Note: being a newbie I may be missing something on this.)
    Yes, you're missing something here because you're new to Android.

    You do not need a task manager. Unlike webOS where you need to close apps yourself, you do not need to close apps in Android. The OS simply handles this for you. When you're done with an app and need to move on to the next one, simply launch the next one. Android will "switch" to that app automatically (i.e. if it's loaded, it will jump to it, otherwise it will load it up for you).

    Also, keep in mind that just because an app is "loaded" it does not mean it is consuming resources.

    Having said that, there are apps that will run in the background (as mentioned in this thread, they are usually designed to poll at regular intervals). With these, you must manage the polling according to your needs.

    The take away is this. With webOS, you mush manually manage apps. With Android, you need not worry about it for the most part. I'm not saying one way is better or worse but personally, I like not having to worry about managing my apps. I simply launch what I need. When I'm done, I launch another or simply hit "home".
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Pandora isn't playing any music but running in background using 10% of the cpu. The maret I running in the background also consuming cpu resources. Leave that running all night and wha you have is a dead battery. The task manager is really not needed.
    Is it saying it is "using" 10% of the CPU or that it "has used" 10% of the CPU for a given timeframe? I know with battery life, it shows the percentage an app has consumed since the unplugging the phone. When you leave an app dormant in the background you should see the percentage number dropping over time.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Pandora isn't playing any music but running in background with cpu usage fluctuating with as high as 10%. I would never know this without looking at the task manager. The market and bank of america mobile banking is running in the background also consuming cpu resources. Leave that running all night and what you have is a dead battery. If you think leaving these apps in the background does not consume any resources then you are wrong. The task manager is really not needed.
    Just trust me on this.

    Download the app OSMonitor from the market and it will give you a true representation of what's going on.
  10. #10  
    As a frame of reference, I get 20 to 30 (sometimes more depending on use) hours of battery life on my EVO. I do not have a task manager installed and I never close apps that go dormant.

    Now, if I'm using a GPS intensive app for example (that continues to track in the background), I'll "exit" that app when I'm done with it. However the vast majority of apps do not need that level of attention.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I am looking at the monitor on the epic and looking at the cpu use for these apps fluctuate. Some remain at 0 but others jump all over the place. Even the browser spikes in cpu usage every now and again. Anyway I'm done. Fact is some of these apps if left running will use the battery. It even says to use the manager to close apps. I guess you know better.
    Hey, don't get me wrong. There are bad apps on all platforms. I have surely come across the occasional misbehaving app on different platforms. I deal with those on an individual basis. My replies to you were only to attempt to explain what generally happens on an Android device. I see lots of posts that say there's no way to close apps on Android and that causes battery drain. This is simply not true (except for poorly designed apps).

    I remember Apple using an app that did heavy polling when left running as justification of why "multitasking is bad for the user." It's really not proper to blame an entire OS for the shortcomings of a single bad apple (no pun intended).
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I am looking at the monitor on the epic and looking at the cpu use for these apps fluctuate. Some remain at 0 but others jump all over the place. Even the browser spikes in cpu usage every now and again. Anyway I'm done. Fact is some of these apps if left running will use the battery. It even says to use the manager to close apps. I guess you know better.
    What you're probably seeing is system resources spawning to do the tasks they need to do, which are minimal things. The CPU spike you're seeing is probably also minimal, a second or two of 10%-20% if even that.

    Not sure why Samsung says to use a task manager, that goes completely against what Google themselves say about the matter. Here's a great article: Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless | andrew | Androinica
  13. #13  
    As an experiment, I just installed OSMonitor, loaded up Pandora, let it play for a while then hit pause. I then watched OSMonitor for a while and Pandora shows a load of 0. I'm not sure what's happening on your Epic.

    When I first started using Android, I wondered about all this stuff as well. I honestly don't think about closing apps anymore. The exception is when I install a new app to make sure it is not behaving badly or when I'm using an app that "remains active" in the background (like navigation or any media app that's actively playing/streaming music for example).
  14. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #14  
    I just came from android 2.1 so maybe it's a major difference when it comes to app management between the two but I know if I didn't have a task killer my phone would barely move. I thought it was supposed to automatically kill apps that weren't needed to keep the phone running smooth but it never happened for me. Bottom line is android sucks in my opinion. That's just me and something major would have to happene for me to ever think about android again. Oh yeah can't forget it's God aweful ugly.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Isn't the evo using andrid 2.2? Anyway most of my issues isn't multitasking but just how it goes about doing simple tasks. I swear I can do everything so much fster and more efficient on the pre. How can any businessuser work with android. The email app and exchange support is so far behind.
    The EVO shipped with 2.1 and got 2.2 not too long ago. I have not changed how I use my device despite the update. That is to say, I didn't use task killers before, nor after the EVO got 2.2, and my battery life have remained basically the same (based on my usage patterns).
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    I just came from android 2.1 so maybe it's a major difference when it comes to app management between the two but I know if I didn't have a task killer my phone would barely move. I thought it was supposed to automatically kill apps that weren't needed to keep the phone running smooth but it never happened for me. Bottom line is android sucks in my opinion. That's just me and something major would have to happene for me to ever think about android again. Oh yeah can't forget it's God aweful ugly.
    No "major" difference that I know of specifically related to app management. Again, I have not used a task killer in either version and I don't experience the slowdown that you speak of. That only happened on my Sprint Pre, unfortunately.
  17. #17  
    Haven't used a task manager myself yet either.

    Yes there will no doubt be ****ty apps that may cause your battery to drain....but just pay attention to reviews and you should be fine. I get better battery than the Pre
  18. flunkn's Avatar
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       #18  
    Thanks, all. I didn't mean to start a firestorm on killing apps but I do appreciate the information. I will take all comments to heart and experiment with not using a manager and also using one and see if there is a difference. Again, I am a Palm loyalist but I don't really have a place to go right now (hey, I am not going to turn down a brand new Epic at no charge!!) The Web OS is truly the best, but the Epic kinda rocks, too. Once the new HPalm device comes out, anybody want to buy a gently used Epic??

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