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  1. #41  
    If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything. Ok...here goes:

    ...
    And that's all I have to say about that.
  2. mike5's Avatar
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    #42  
    Will you need to add antivirus protection, firewall protection, anti spyware protection? I know HP has just spent tons on security products, but will they be integrated? Or are they necessary? I have to admit, that is one of the nicest things to not deal w/on a Mac.

    Also, can someone explain why it is not as smooth between windows, scrolling, etc as existing slates/pads? Is it because it is a prototype? Is it the processor? Is it flash? Is it lack of a GPU? Is it simply the way things are integrated? It isn't super slow, but it isn't close to what is currently on the market for smoothness.

    I learn a lot on this forum & I see some neat things like the kick stand device, but I don't see the point of releasing something that lags behind in current user friendliness. Will webOS be better at this? I sure hope so.
  3. #43  
    I feel I have not properly expressed why I believe this is such a disaster, and why it bodes poorly for the webOS tablet to come.

    The big one for me is the hardware keyboard button. This has nothing to do with the OS, or the fact that it is beta. That button is a very intentional design decision. At some point, someone asked the question, "How should we bring up the software keyboard when it is time to type something in a text field." Someone else said, "I know; let's make it so that the user has to do a separate action to bring up the keyboard." "Great!" says another. "How will they activate it?" After much debate, they finally decide on a physical button.

    I can see every purchaser of this thing on the phone with tech support, trying to figure out why a keyboard doesn't just pop up when they tap into a text field. This is one of the most asinine things I have ever seen in a crap-gadget. These same guys might just decide to put physical buttons on the pPad to switch from one card to another. Tell me that thought doesn't frighten you just a little.

    Also disturbing is the array of external cruft. It has more holes and buttons than a bellhop's coat. That gives this tablet the look of something very industrial and unapproachable.

    Ctrl/Alt/Del key: nothing says disaster quite like that. A crash recovery key right on the outside for all to see and mock just seems like the height of stupidity. I wonder if they will make it blue? I guarantee, no matter what this thing has going for it, in the press, it will be forever know for that CAD button.

    I could go on, but why. My point is that these problems have nothing to do with the OS or the stage of development. They show HP's design ethic and decision making process. These are the same people who are making the pPad. HP does not have a JI or SJ, and it shows. Everyone anticipating a great webOS pad ought to be feeling more than a little uneasy. If not, please tell me where I'm wrong.
  4. mike5's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    unless it's a printer, then it's android...?

    besides, THIS is the slate/phone I want:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/udlxr8t1nZM...dded&version=3

    it's in german, but you will get the meaning if you watch it all.
    Great! There is English subtitles if you want them.
  5.    #45  
    It should be no surprise that Windows 7 isn't optimized for tablets. Just the simple fact that it doesn't animate the transition from portrait to landscape seems trivial but is one of those things that iPad users take for granted. It's also one of those little details that most technology companies left on the todo list for version 2.0.
  6. #46  
    Wow, some of you are ignorant on Windows.

    One, Control-Alt-Delete does not bring up the task manager any more (never has on the enterprise-based stuff like Windows 2000, or even XP if you changed some options around), but instead gives you a screen to log out, switch user, lock the computer, log out, or open the task manager.

    Secondly, it's a very smart idea, even if all of the Microsoft haters like to bash it. Control-Alt-Delete is a keystroke that cannot be captured by ANY application. In other words, when you press those keys, you know that you're going to end up in something that is part of the operating system, and not a program designed to look similar to it to take your password information. It's the same reason that option is generally enabled before login for enterprise setups. They require you to press it before your password as a measure of additional security.

    Having a button that does this automatically, while nothing new (most Windows 7 tablets have it) is very useful, and not at all for a crash recovery option.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I feel I have not properly expressed why I believe this is such a disaster, and why it bodes poorly for the webOS tablet to come.
    To me, the Slate is just abhorrent because everything about it is antithetical to what we've learned about how tablets should work.
  8. darencas's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    unless it's a printer, then it's android...?

    besides, THIS is the slate/phone I want:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/udlxr8t1nZM...dded&version=3

    it's in german, but you will get the meaning if you watch it all.

    now, thats brilliant!! and it beats the WebOS toaster we all envisioned!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    These are the same people who are making the pPad. HP does not have a JI or SJ, and it shows. Everyone anticipating a great webOS pad ought to be feeling more than a little uneasy. If not, please tell me where I'm wrong.
    While I can't say you are definitely wrong, I think you are jumping the gun a bit. It seems Palm has been left relatively intact within HP so there is a chance the overall design of whatever palmpad will not be the same as this...thing. I have no idea if it will be something great or something ridiculously bad, I just think your assumptions are a bit premature. We don't know what was in the pipeline before the merger. We don't know how far along anything was. Since there hasn't been any real information released, it's hard to assume the people responsible for this slate are the same ones responsible for whatever tablet device is coming next.

    All I'm saying is you can't really come to a solid conclusion given the void in available information about this mysterious super whatever device.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Wow, some of you are ignorant on Windows.

    One, Control-Alt-Delete does not bring up the task manager any more (never has on the enterprise-based stuff like Windows 2000, or even XP if you changed some options around), but instead gives you a screen to log out, switch user, lock the computer, log out, or open the task manager.

    Secondly, it's a very smart idea, even if all of the Microsoft haters like to bash it. Control-Alt-Delete is a keystroke that cannot be captured by ANY application. In other words, when you press those keys, you know that you're going to end up in something that is part of the operating system, and not a program designed to look similar to it to take your password information. It's the same reason that option is generally enabled before login for enterprise setups. They require you to press it before your password as a measure of additional security.

    Having a button that does this automatically, while nothing new (most Windows 7 tablets have it) is very useful, and not at all for a crash recovery option.
    +1billion. Thank you for writing this and saving me from a rant. It truly is frieghtening how little people know about the windows system.

    Ctrl+Atl+Del is to access the SECURITY subsystem as it is unfakeable via software.
  11. mike5's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    It should be no surprise that Windows 7 isn't optimized for tablets. Just the simple fact that it doesn't animate the transition from portrait to landscape seems trivial but is one of those things that iPad users take for granted. It's also one of those little details that most technology companies left on the todo list for version 2.0.
    I am not that tech savvy. Why is Windows 7 not very good on or "optimized for tablets?" Why are iOS & webOS better for a pad/slate? I am really looking forward to the webOS pad, but I don't understand why Windows looks so bad--not as good--doing what I now consider basic things?

    Thanks
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    I am not that tech savvy. Why is Windows 7 not very good on or "optimized for tablets?" Why are iOS & webOS better for a pad/slate? I am really looking forward to the webOS pad, but I don't understand why Windows looks so bad--not as good--doing what I now consider basic things?

    Thanks
    Windows just has a large footprint. It works fine on PCs because they are expandable and it can use tricks like paging when resources get low. iOS and WebOS also have a more natural interface that's better suited for touch control, rather than using a mouse or a trackpad.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    I am not that tech savvy. Why is Windows 7 not very good on or "optimized for tablets?" Why are iOS & webOS better for a pad/slate? I am really looking forward to the webOS pad, but I don't understand why Windows looks so bad--not as good--doing what I now consider basic things?

    Thanks
    My main issue with it is that it is not finger friendly. I don't mind using some sort of stylus with a tablet device in certain situations (diagraming software processes for example). However, I don't want to have to use it for day-to-day navigation of the tablet interface. Some of those menu items are fine for a mouse or other pointer device, but are way to tiny for comfortable finger use.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    My main issue with it is that it is not finger friendly. I don't mind using some sort of stylus with a tablet device in certain situations (diagraming software processes for example). However, I don't want to have to use it for day-to-day navigation of the tablet interface. Some of those menu items are fine for a mouse or other pointer device, but are way to tiny for comfortable finger use.
    Not an issue if you change the DPI (set here to 200% for exaggeration):
    Last edited by sledge007; 04/03/2012 at 10:41 AM.
  15. dsei's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Will you need to add antivirus protection, firewall protection, anti spyware protection? I know HP has just spent tons on security products, but will they be integrated? Or are they necessary? I have to admit, that is one of the nicest things to not deal w/on a Mac.
    It's still Windows so the same vulnerabilties and malware threats still apply. I can see HP giving out trialware since they already probably have partnerships with AV companies. Personally, I wish they would just preinstall MS Security Essentials.

    Their recent security acquisition (Arcsight) has nothing to do with the endpoint. It's all about enterprise security intelligience through log collection.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Not an issue if you change the DPI (set here to 200% for exaggeration):
    That "looks better". But you do get my point right? The version of windows on that device is simply not finger friendly. Scrollbars, menus, the tiny icons at the bottom of the browser, some of the navigation, etc, (not just the size of certain icons) are all mouse and pointer centric. It just is not the "tablet experience" I'm looking for. I would have the same problem if someone were to simply slap Mac OS on a tablet. For me, the usage patterns do not fit the standard PC OS (at least not from a look and feel point of view).

    Looking at Android, webOS and iOS, and even some of what I've seen from windows 7 phone, they have been customized for the portable device rather than a device that would normally have a mouse attached.
  17. #57  
    Let's remember that the HP Slate we have seen on U-tube was a prototype, not a finished product. None of us have seen, or handled the Slate that HP will sell in the next month or so. It appears to me that some of us are in a rush to judgement. So as this is a forum where we all get an opportunity to air our views, I want to express my feelings. Remember, my feelings! I like the look of the HP Slate. I like the USB port, the opportunity for flash, the Skype, the ACD key, etc. I really like the little charging stand with additional USB ports and I didn't get the feeling that the OS was so slow that it bothered me. Also, remember, the person operating the Slate was doing so through a plastic cover. Could that have made a difference to speed, etc? If you feel that this is a rant, so be it. I come to this forum because I like Palm products and I have no problem with HP products either. In fact I have over 15 HP printers and at least 5 HP computers in my office. It appears to me that some who come to this forum do not appear to find anything good to say about either Palm or HP. If Apple products are what turn you on. Then go for it. As I said before, these are my feelings. Deal with it.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by taharka View Post
    That "looks better". But you do get my point right? The version of windows on that device is simply not finger friendly. Scrollbars, menus, the tiny icons at the bottom of the browser, some of the navigation, etc, (not just the size of certain icons) are all mouse and pointer centric. It just is not the "tablet experience" I'm looking for. I would have the same problem if someone were to simply slap Mac OS on a tablet. For me, the usage patterns do not fit the standard PC OS (at least not from a look and feel point of view).

    Looking at Android, webOS and iOS, and even some of what I've seen from windows 7 phone, they have been customized for the portable device rather than a device that would normally have a mouse attached.
    Actually, the dpi change affects everything and not just the icons. Text, buttons, and menus are all affected and thus increased in size. HP (and other vendors) should just set a larger dpi by default and that would go a long way to demonstrating for the common folk. As to the responsiveness of the screen. I tested a "touch smart pc" the other day and the touchscreen was amazing. If that is what we have to look forwards to on the P-Pad, then I have no worries. Video follows.



    Absolutely ZERO lag and the precision, well see for yourself...
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    first reason not to do a windows slate: it needs a hardware button to simulate ctrl+alt+del
    its not a single button that runs a "ctrl + alt + del" macro

    its a ctrl/alt/del button. i have the 12.1" core i3 windows 7 tm2 tablet by hp....some of the guys over on that forum have developed an add-on for ctrl/alt/del. you have to realize its a touch screen.

    so, for example, how would you select multiple items? its touch based, so do you touch one item, open up the on screen keyboard, press ctrl, hide the keyboard, select item 2, open it, close it, etc. no. you dont. you use the ctrl button. that doesnt work out so well with an on-screen only keyboard

    heres what we use in the tablet world: ~Shepy ModLock

    its called mod lock

    heres the description

    Modlock is a tiny windows application designed to make the use of modifer keys such as Alt and Control a lot easier when using a tablet PC, as needed when using software such as Adobe Photoshop. When using tools such as the clone tool or the lasso in Photoshop, you often need to press and hold the Alt, Ctrl, Shift or Space keys while you use the tool to modifiy the way in which the tool behaves. Whilst this is a simple task on a regular PC, it can be quite troublesome when using a tablet PC where you have no access to the keyboard
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    its not a single button that runs a "ctrl + alt + del" macro

    its a ctrl/alt/del button.
    Not that I have an HP slate but I'm 99.99% certain you're wrong.

    Other tablets (maybe not your tm2, but many others, including my Dell XT and my HP tc1100) do have a button designed specifically to press control-alt-delete, for the purposes I already mentioned above.
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