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  1. #81  
    Yes, we know Lord Jobs RDF is strong, they could release a game console at X-mas that was gimped feature wise and had a limited genre of games and it would destroy Xbox, PS3, and all others just because of a little white bitten apple..

    The followers of the fruit are dedicated beyond all belief
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Yes, we know Lord Jobs RDF is strong,
    Here we go again. The reality distortion field clearly indicates that anyone who buys and likes an Apple product has to be a brainwashed drone.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    ...they could release a game console at X-mas that was gimped feature wise and had a limited genre of games and it would destroy Xbox, PS3, and all others just because of a little white bitten apple..
    All Apple customers care about is branding. They don't know or care about the technology and what it can do for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    The followers of the fruit are dedicated beyond all belief
    That has a sort of religious, cult-like overtone to it, wouldn't you say? Of course Apple customers are a monolithic stereotype that marches in lock-step to the orders of the evil dictator. If we think about them that way, we don't have to think of them as ordinary people that you see everyday.

    It is easy to dismiss mindless sheeple drones as sub-human, and their choices as absurd. It becomes a little harder when you recognized those happy Apple product customers as your parents, children, coworkers, class-mates, parishioners, friends, and family.

    It also becomes harder to dismiss them when you realize that the numbers are growing, not shrinking. If the first million are written off as rabid Apple fanatics, how about the hundred-millionth? At what point in your mind do they stop being stupid zealots, and start being ordinary people who are making the best tech decisions for them?

    Ah, nevermind. You are the worst kind of religious fanatic. Everyone who does not agree with you is too stupid to be considered fully human. You are exactly the kind of fanatic that ultimately brings down the company you are trying to support.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Here we go again. The reality distortion field clearly indicates that anyone who buys and likes an Apple product has to be a brainwashed drone.

    All Apple customers care about is branding. They don't know or care about the technology and what it can do for them.
    When did I say anything at all about brainwashing or drones?? Branding? Sure, of course they do. No different from people who only buy D&G or Burberry, or Panasonic, or IBM regardless of their value or practicality.


    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13
    That has a sort of religious, cult-like overtone to it, wouldn't you say? Of course Apple customers are a monolithic stereotype that marches in lock-step to the orders of the evil dictator. If we think about them that way, we don't have to think of them as ordinary people that you see everyday.
    I never said that either. Your words, not mine. However "evangelism marketing" was in fact started by Apple Evangelism marketing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13
    It is easy to dismiss mindless sheeple drones as sub-human, and their choices as absurd. It becomes a little harder when you recognized those happy Apple product customers as your parents, children, coworkers, class-mates, parishioners, friends, and family.

    It also becomes harder to dismiss them when you realize that the numbers are growing, not shrinking. If the first million are written off as rabid Apple fanatics, how about the hundred-millionth? At what point in your mind do they stop being stupid zealots, and start being ordinary people who are making the best tech decisions for them?
    When does purchasing based on popularity or trendiness make them "rabid zealots"? I said they buy it because of the logo, not because they are morons or some such descriptor. You interjected all those words in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13
    Ah, nevermind. You are the worst kind of religious fanatic. Everyone who does not agree with you is too stupid to be considered fully human. You are exactly the kind of fanatic that ultimately brings down the company you are trying to support.
    Personal attacks? That seem like it was called for? Have I made any references to dandbj13 in this entire post? All I said was that Apple fans love Apple products because they are Apple, not because they are unintelligent or illiterate in some fashion.

    I have my own empirical evidence from user asking to switch from our company provided and supported Berries to an iPhone (permitted but unsupported) for "work purposes" and when I ask them "Why do you want to switch?", I've yet to get a compelling response and several have openly stated "Because X other people in the department have it." We've even had to restrict use of iPhone 4 for several users (9 so far) and force them to take the Berry because they were never reachable and it was impacting the business and their performance.

    I also approved the hiring of a back-fill resource who's previous job was as a "genius" in a local store and he used to provide hours of entertainment telling me customer stories enough that I know exactly what kinds of customers they are. (And the ultimate irony was he didn't even use an iPhone!)

    If your upset with me because your "triumphant" point on the iPad was invalidated, there's not much I can do about that. I simply pointed out the most current facts that iPad isn't touching notebooks and is insubstantially affecting netbook sales.
  4. #84  
    tablets have their place, and lets be honest, a netbook is a tablet with a keyboard. so i dont see tablets killing netbooks completely...unless they create a tablet with a keyboard....but that'll just be a netbook then

    most consumers do basic things: internet, email, office, media

    lets face it though, when it comes to writing a 10 page research paper, youre not doing it by pecking at an ipad screen.

    tablets are internet and media devices....think of it as a small TV. for most people, they might be a 2nd or 3rd household "computer" but in no way will they replace a true notebook.

    my father in law has a smartphone, ipad and macbook. he reads emails on his phone, if he has to reply, he pulls out the macbook.....whats he use the ipad for? surfing and reading the internet and watching baseball games.

    i believe one of the future possible ipad competitors will be along the lines of the Sony PSP Go. (if sony will ever get it right).
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
  5. #85  
    Ok...lets clear something up here, if I may:

    HP, a company with over 305,000 employees worldwide, and an extraordinarily diverse variety of products to go with that size, likely won't "fear" any single product. I don't care what it is, however, I am absolutely positive that they will, and DO, respect decent competition, and their creators, and in fact, welcome it, as it creates new opportunities for them.

    Right now, the iPad has no real competition "head to head" yet, and when given a choice, it appears that some Best Buy consumers are chosing to buy an iPad instead of a low powered netbook. (Thats NETBOOK, not notebook/laptop, Mr. BestBuyGuy )

    I will seriously venture to say that the reason they make this choice is a combination of many factors: their precieved uniqueness of the product, the fact that its a finger-touch screen, and, yep, its an Apple branded device. Don't kid yourself, danb.. the Apple name carries serious weight in the market, particularly (but not exclusively) with thier loyal followers.

    HP bought Palm earlier this year. Up until that purchase, HP licensed OS's from Microsoft for all of their devices, but with Palm, they got a well thought out, state of the art, and scalable operating system that will run accross many mobile/portable device platforms, an area they they havent seriously entered into yet.

    Read in between the lines, and see what they are doing; they have recognized that "slick" is in, "innovative" can create mind share, but BOTH requires marketting and financial strength to pull all that off, just like Apple did.

    As "untidy" a solution as it might seem to you and other Apple advocates (versus people that just like all kinds of new devices, regardless of who makes them, like me), HP just bought themselves a first class ticket to the party, cheap, and upped the anty in Apple's own backyard, AND appears dead-set on becoming a permanent player there, likely with even more ambitious goals, as well.

    The title of this thread implies that "HP should fear the iPad", and the basis of it was that Mr. BestBuyGuy stated that the iPad ate into 50% of the notebook sales in his stores. You were quick to jump on the bandwagon with this, here on PreCentral, where we mostly are concentrating on Palm/HP development stuff. Fair enough.

    When the retraction came, though, and, Mr. BestBuyGuy's faux pas (or, was it the WSJ author who misquoted him on several instances?) backtracked and OTHER media sources (Engadget, for one) said he was inferring to "netbook" sales, you then tried to relate "netbook" to being a low end "notebook" and then rationalized that the iPad "threat" still exists, based on 2 other "analysts'" estimates of 18% and 25% potential effect, in that same article.

    Im sorry, but, that isn't logical, and, I'm not sure what your point is any more, honestly.

    Having said the above, I believe, firmly, that HP has nothing to fear in the iPad. I believe they DO see Apple's iPad market as a great place to play and take part in, and prosper from, as Apple has done all of the marketting and attention seeking for it - now all competitors who choose to enter will benefit from that.

    RICHFIELD, Minn., September 17, 2010 –In a statement today, Brian J. Dunn, CEO, Best Buy Co., Inc. (NYSE:BBY), likened recent rumors of a pending decline in notebook and netbook sales to a legendary Mark Twain-ism:

    "The reports of the demise of these devices are grossly exaggerated," Dunn said. "While they were fueled in part by a comment in the Wall Street Journal that was attributed to me, they are not an accurate depiction of what we're currently seeing. In fact, we see some shifts in consumption patterns, with tablet sales being an incremental opportunity. And as we said during our recent earnings call, we believe computers will remain a very popular gift this holiday because of the very distinct and desirable benefits they offer consumers. That's why we intend to carry a broad selection of computing products and accessories to address the demand we anticipate this season."
    Last edited by LCGuy; 09/18/2010 at 05:33 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    If HP doesn't fear the iPad then where is the Slate? Balmer had it in his hands at CES and there have been videos of this device since the beginning of the year.

    A company like HP surely knows how to build a Windows tablet and bring it to market as fast as anybody. After all, the've been doing it for years. One can only assume that the Slate was deemed non-competitive compared to the iPad and was either scuttled or, more likely, sent for a complete redesign. Issues of battery life, overall performance Windows, and price point probably had a hand. The fact that they went out and bought another mobile OS is another clue that something changed between January and April of this year.
    Untidy;

    It isnt fear, man. I know you want it to be. You like that - gotta make em look weak, if possible, but, not at all...

    Its ALL about making more money - when you are a publically traded company, you have to grow for growth sake, or your share price will suffer.

    Windows is best suited for a pen based touchscreen, at best - this is a finger touch screen market - new market, new potential revenue, and now with an even better take on it than Apple - a better, more pwerful, robust OS with a huge portfolio of devices they already supply to worldwide customers to.

    Oh, and lets not forget, Apple has laready done most of the marketting work, too! Consumers have been convinced to want this touch screen device that they don't need, and they have only one choice, so far... Added bonus!

    Lotsa gowth - that, untidy dude, is not "fear" you are seeing, its ambition and aggressive business growth.

    Nice try, though.



    I will end this with an appropriate, but very relative quote from my post above:

    "As "untidy" a solution as it might seem to you and other Apple advocates (versus people that just like all kinds of new devices, regardless of who makes them, like me), HP just bought themselves a first class ticket to the party, cheap, and upped the anty in Apple's own backyard, AND appears dead-set on becoming a permanent player there, likely with even more ambitious goals, as well."
    Last edited by LCGuy; 09/18/2010 at 07:04 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Isn't it amazing how quickly the tablet went from a failed niche, to an interesting rumor, to an Apple gamble, to a revived niche, to a runaway fad, to an industry game-changer, to just another inevitable product category which Apple just so happened to have entered with fortunate timing.
    It was a "failed niche" because they used to be very expensive and ran Windows with stylus based touch screen capabilities grafted onto it. The only places I've seen them is doctors' offices. The iPad is not as expensive, has a decent touch screen UI, and thanks to the iPhone, a healthy software catalog. It will be interesting to see how it plays out once they have some competition.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    It was a "failed niche" because they used to be very expensive and ran Windows with stylus based touch screen capabilities grafted onto it. The only places I've seen them is doctors' offices. The iPad is not as expensive, has a decent touch screen UI, and thanks to the iPhone, a healthy software catalog.
    In other words, it took Apple to show the industry how to make a pad that normal people wanted to buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    It will be interesting to see how it plays out once they have some competition.
    No, it is interesting now that the iPad has provided some competition. The iPad does not need an alternative; it is the alternative. People didn't like what was being served up before. They love the iPad. They have already chosen an alternative... to the traditional HP tablet.
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Ipads are not PCs. They are media use devices, specifically designed to suck the money out of thier users with an addtional wireless connection, and media usage license fees.

    Once the general public sees this, and realize that they cant run thier Word, Excel, Paint, CAD and other software on them, they will be buying laptop computers again, and dumping their iPads into their "less used" drawer.

    Unless the iPads can increase thier hardware profile and software OS capabilites to become real computers, kinda like the HP Win7 PC touchscreens already out in the wild!!



    IMO, of course.
    This is untrue as you can create and edit MS Office docs on the iPad and even run a rather useful version of photoshop. The iPad is eating up the netbook market on mass. If you need to do video animation or serious CAD design you wouldn't use a notebook but a desktop instead.

    In the next 3 to 5 years the tablets will get thinner and more powerful as that form factor will put the notebook one in the history books. Don't knock the iPad until you own one as it is a great device and I only use my Dell E6400 now for diagnosing technical issues where a direct ethernet connection is required.

    BTW: I have 3 Windows servers and 2 PCs along with 1 Mac Mini that I only use for iTunes.
    My Palm Pre Gets Its Wallpaper From SmartPhone Wallpaper
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    In other words, it took Apple to show the industry how to make a pad that normal people wanted to buy.
    They don't wait around for Microsoft to get its act in gear like the rest of the PC industry, so there is some truth in that.



    No, it is interesting now that the iPad has provided some competition. The iPad does not need an alternative; it is the alternative. People didn't like what was being served up before. They love the iPad. They have already chosen an alternative... to the traditional HP tablet.
    Written like a true zealot.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    If HP doesn't fear the iPad then where is the Slate? Balmer had it in his hands at CES and there have been videos of this device since the beginning of the year.



    A company like HP surely knows how to build a Windows tablet and bring it to market as fast as anybody. After all, the've been doing it for years. One can only assume that the Slate was deemed non-competitive compared to the iPad and was either scuttled or, more likely, sent for a complete redesign. Issues of battery life, overall performance Windows, and price point probably had a hand. The fact that they went out and bought another mobile OS is another clue that something changed between January and April of this year.
    I think Marco Arment summed it up best with this piece:

    Marco.org - A smartphone retrospective
  12. #92  
    FWIW:

    In fact, NPD’s upcoming report Apple’s iPad Owner Study found that 13 percent of consumers who bought iPads said it replaced a PC purchase they planned to make
    .

    NPD Group Blog » Reading Tea Leaves From An Empty Cup
  13. #93  
    Walt Mossberg just chronicled his 10 day "working vacation" in Paris where he took his iPad along, rather than a notebook. According to him, "the tablet came through with flying colors."

    Personal Technology: An iPad in Paris - WSJ.com

    How can this be? You can't even hook a scanner up to the iPad! You can't expand the system's RAM! Clearly Mossberg has kicked his Apple fandom up to a whole new level.
  14. #94  
    Penny-Arcade also supposedly created a comic strip on the iPad. I don't believe them because, as everyone knows, the iPad is only for consumption.

    Penny Arcade made a comic with the iPad
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Walt Mossberg just chronicled his 10 day "working vacation" in Paris where he took his iPad along, rather than a notebook. According to him, "the tablet came through with flying colors."

    Personal Technology: An iPad in Paris - WSJ.com

    How can this be? You can't even hook a scanner up to the iPad! You can't expand the system's RAM! Clearly Mossberg has kicked his Apple fandom up to a whole new level.
    Did you read the entire article? He brings up all the same shortcomings that LCGuy did.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Did you read the entire article? He brings up all the same shortcomings that LCGuy did.
    His only real complaints, other than the lack of multitasking in iOS 3.2, were:

    There were only two things I wanted to do but couldn't because I had an iPad rather than a laptop. In one case, where a Word document contained a lot of revision comments, I couldn't get any of the productivity apps on my tablet to display these. In another, I couldn't help a colleague test Apple's new Ping social network, because, ironically, you can only set up a Ping account on a regular computer.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    His only real complaints, other than the lack of multitasking in iOS 3.2, were:
    It's not really about complaints. He was very forthcoming about the use case scenarios and people that the iPad would not be for, and that's a lot of people, myself included. I think it's a rather nifty device and certainly fun to play with, but it offers no real value to me or my family.

    Even if they dropped the price and even if I found one cheaper than that used...it is nigh useless to me to drop hundreds on a device that doesn't browse as well as my netbook, has a smaller screen, must be tethered to iTunes, and requires me to use lite versions of Office or Photoshop or whatever. It's great that those things don't matter to, well,...a lot of people as well. May they enjoy their iPads.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    His only real complaints, other than the lack of multitasking in iOS 3.2, were:
    Really? These sound very similar to what LCGuy had mentioned.

    Also, my experiment wasn't conducted on a full-fledged business trip. I call it a "working" vacation because, although I wasn't writing columns or testing new products, I felt a strong need to remain in touch with some work matters. (Yes, I know this can be viewed as a pathetic example of poor work/life balance, but I'm hardly the only one afflicted with it.)

    So, I devoted part of each day to wading through hundreds of emails, reading and reviewing documents, keeping up with work-related news on websites and social networks, and doing other non-vacation chores. The iPad had no trouble coping with these tasks. It was a no-hassle experience.

    But I wasn't producing long documents, using specialized company software, creating and delivering presentations, or doing some of the other things typical on business trips that might have required a laptop, or been more easily done on one.
    But again, this all depends on your own needs and habits. In fact, a few days after my successful Paris experience with the iPad, I found myself in an airport again. A woman at the gate noticed I had the iPad, said she was dying to ditch her laptop on the road, and asked if I thought the tablet could do the trick.

    After determining she was a chief financial officer who created large spreadsheets, I advised her against the switch. Yes, you can create spreadsheets on an iPad, but I doubted she'd be happy doing so without a built-in physical keyboard, familiar programs and the processing power of her laptop.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rombo View Post
    This is untrue as you can create and edit MS Office docs on the iPad and even run a rather useful version of photoshop.
    How do you create and edit MS Office docs on the iPad. Can you go to websites that have Flash content and see the Flash content?
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    How do you create and edit MS Office docs on the iPad. Can you go to websites that have Flash content and see the Flash content?
    There are a lot of apps (some full document suites) that let you create/modify word documents. To name a few:

    - Pages
    - Documents To Go
    - GoDocs

    Don't like typing on a virtual keyboard, then grab one of these.

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