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  1.    #1  
    This is something that I posted as a comment on the article about WebOS 2.0 Youtube Video/Leak. I really feel like I explained my frustration with Android, so I decided to make a thread about it. It was a response to this comment:

    "Yawn..... This software better be f**king awesome because if its not revolutionary, and coupled with kick *** hardware myself and what few webos users I know are going to android. I'm sick and tired of my friends and classmates flaunting their awesome android hardware or iphone apps (palm has neither)."


    Here is my response:

    "Wait, what? What is so good about Android? The only thing that I find that is any good related to Android is Verizon's marketing. Android is an ugly interface, yes I have used the Evo, yes I went and looked at the Epic the day it came out. I even had the option of getting either for free because Best Buy screwed up my replacement Pre via Black Tie Protection (I declined to getting either). Having an Android tablet and constantly helping my father out with his Evo has pretty much shown me everything I need to know about Android (especially that I do not want to give up WebOS). I even was without my Pre for a month and was soley working on an Android device, it was killing me how horrible the UI was for my everyday phone. I do enjoy using my Android tablet, but only because there is no other option (iPad's lack of multitasking kept me away, not to say that Anroid's multitasking is any good, because its more of a chore than helpful). The next device coming out of HP Palm I am sure is gonna be up to par with what is expected to be a competitor in the mobile market. That is something that we should not worry about. To me what matters is the software, WebOS is already better than any other phone OS, including Android. I really just don't get the hype behind Android. Besides what I have listed above, the Anroid OS is completely cannibalized by all the crap devices and different firmwares running on so many devices.
    I am sad to see you go, but it's ok because I know you will be back. You know you love your Pre."

    I do like the competition with Android, but I just don't see it's appeal.
    Thank me if I helped you.
  2. #2  
    Doesn't it feel great to vent?....their is a great one word description of WebOS...."elegant"...I have heard it used to describe WebOS quite often that when I make a comparison to another OS in discussion I believe it says it all...WebOS is truly "elegant" in performing it's tasks whether it's the notifications or the cards...I have owned as well as used many devices and there is nothing like WebOS....(did I plug WebOS enough?)
  3. #3  
    Which Android tablet does your father have?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by GrantHeppes View Post
    To me WebOS is better than Android
    Nothing wrong with that. The problem is, however, that to the vast majority, Android (and iOS) is better than webOS. This is what Palm has to overcome. I don't know what they need to do, but they need to do something to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantHeppes View Post
    I just don't see it's appeal
    Again, many, many, many people do see it's appeal. Call them drones, sheep, whatever, they like...love these devices and they go out and BUY them. Again, Palm needs this.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    That's like saying the vast majority have used webos and that is not the case. The main problem with Webos is the device is not up to par. If it was more attractive to the masses it would have done a lot better. I honestly don't understand how anyone can use Webos then use Android and come to the conclusion that Android is better. Sure it has more apps but in terms of functionality and UI I think webos wins hands down. The Android apps are so ugly and the Os does not look modern. It has the same look as Windows Mobile.

    To me the only OS currently out that looks modern are IOS and Webos.
    No, I'm not saying the vast majority have used webos, I'm saying the opposite. The vast majority don't care about webOS (and many simply think there are better choices out there).

    As for not understanding how someone can use webos and prefer Android, it happens all the time. I've used webOS for over a year (launch day purchaser). I've developed my own apps for webOS. I was in the early access program. I understand much of the ins and outs of the OS itself. Despite all of that, I most certainly prefer Android. webOS surely has some things that it does much better than Android or any other OS I've played with (look and feel being one of its better features). But from an overall point of view, Android simply does more things better than webOS.
  6. #6  
    It's not that the vast majority see Android or Iphone OS as better. It's that they've never heard of webOS. With the exception of two people who have the Evo, I don't know anybody with Android who likes it. When I show them my Pre, they want it. Then I tell them to look for the next generation when their contract is up and they say they don't want to wait, and just want my phone now. That's how much better webOS is. It shines on a year and a half old phone next to anything that isn't the latest and greatest.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    That's like saying the vast majority have used webos and that is not the case. The main problem with Webos is the device is not up to par. If it was more attractive to the masses it would have done a lot better. Hardware aside I honestly don't understand how anyone can use Webos then use Android and come to the conclusion that Android is better. Sure it has more apps but in terms of functionality and UI I think webos wins hands down. I can see who is sending me an email without even unlocking the phone, switch apps by swiping a gesture area, email app is top notch and plus so much more.

    The Android apps are so ugly and the OS does not look modern. It has the same look as Windows Mobile. That is something I couldn't get over with Android. To me the only OS currently out that looks modern are IOS and Webos.
    No one has to come to the conclusion that Android is better than WebOS or any other platform.

    But many customers are coming to the conclusion that Android devices are readily available on any carrier, with hardware that was constantly upgraded, have access to more modern namebrand apps than any platform except for iPhone, are available in many form factors, and have exclusive Google features like deep voice control functionality and free Google Nav.

    Customers came to the conclusion that WebOS devices were slowly being phased out to carriers on exclusive deals every six months or so, with hardware that was rarely upgraded, with access to just a handful of modern namebrand apps, available in just two form factors - neither of which was particularly popular - and had exclusive features that Palm never publicized and weren't particularly exciting.

    Stop looking at the OSes in a vacuum. If Verizon could make a platform succeed simply on the strength of marketing, there'd be several million more Blackberry Storm handsets in the wild and RIM wouldn't be trying (and failing) to reinvent the wheel with the Torch. Android succeeds because they have the most pieces in place for a modern smartphone ecosystem for any platform aside from iPhone. Period. HP can work on "hot hardware" coming out at some undetermined time and they can pay for "hot apps" and speed up WebOS all they like. But if they don't get the rest of their ecosystem in place, the result will ultimately be the same.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    It's not that the vast majority see Android or Iphone OS as better. It's that they've never heard of webOS. With the exception of two people who have the Evo, I don't know anybody with Android who likes it.
    Well, there you go. Nobody actually likes Android. The Sprint users ranking the Evo waaaaaay hiogher than the Pre on Sprint's website are...I dunno, delusional? There are tens of millions of people with $150-200 burning a hole in their pockets who don't want to bother getting a Pre Plus or Pre for free (with an additional gift card) on pretty much the carrier of their choice. You heard it here first.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by EVOandBACK View Post
    I wasnt aware that there was an android tablet out?
    Only crappy ones out.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    It's not that the vast majority see Android or Iphone OS as better. It's that they've never heard of webOS. With the exception of two people who have the Evo, I don't know anybody with Android who likes it. When I show them my Pre, they want it. Then I tell them to look for the next generation when their contract is up and they say they don't want to wait, and just want my phone now. That's how much better webOS is. It shines on a year and a half old phone next to anything that isn't the latest and greatest.
    And yet on Sprint, a whopping 96% of EVO users would recommend it while the Pre gets only 66% recommendation and the Pixi 71%.
  11. #11  
    And about this.

    I'm one of those people who had a Palm Pre for over a year, just switched to Android and I prefer it greatly.

    I'm not going to get into my reasons why but ill just say i'm no longer fighting/waiting on my phone but instead i'm flying through tasks.

    Anyway, you can chirp along about how you don't understand how someone could like android better...but the facts are that most people do. Hell....even look what the Editor in Chief of engadget Joshua Topolosky tweeted yesterday:
    Twitter / Joshua Topolsky: Just installed 1.4.5 on a ...
    Just installed 1.4.5 on a Verizon Pre Plus. I am legitimately shocked by how sluggish this OS is. #webos
    And thats how i started feeling as i played with other devices. WebOS can have all the good looking icons it wants...but when i actually want to get stuff done quickly...and get MORE stuff done (with its better apps and blackberry level of customizations) being "pretty" only gets you so far.

    Also its rather ridiculous to even compare it to windows Mobile in terms of looks.
  12. jamex's Avatar
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    #12  
    I had an Epic 4G for a while but decided to return to the Pre. The price wasn't worth it imo. Sure the Android hardware is nice but to me the Operating System is not. WebOS also has a few things I don't like about it but I would rather deal with it over Android. For me Webos does what I need a phone to do so much better for eg. email. The email clients on Android aren't nearly as good as the client for Webos and the notifications. I mean who came up with that lame notification method? I swear the battery on my Pre lasts longer than the Epic 4G even though it is much smaller. 1500 vs 1100.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I guess people cannot differentiate the OS from the hardware it runs on. Oh well....
    That is more true than you realize. This is why I say the Pre has really damaged Palm's "brand". Consumers, in general, buy a "device". They do not look at it as purchasing a device and an OS. They simply buy a "device". If that device leaves them unhappy, it's the brand that gets hurt.

    Again, consumers, in general, could care less about an OS. They usually don't even know what the name of the OS is.
  14. #14  
    Why should i care about the OS if the only device it runs on is simply not up to the standards of other phones right now?

    There is literally no other way to experience WebOS unless you are using a Pixi and and Pre. And then a bunch of people keep predicting WebOS will magically work 100x better with new hardware.

    No WebOS needs serious optimization. Why does it take 5 minutes to boot the phone? My Evo takes 30 seconds. I'm not saying new hardware wouldn't help, but unless they do it right (which it seems like they are taking their time and what not) then we'll get another rushed product.

    Bake WebOS fully, and sprinkle it with good hardware and i'll gladly take another look...but even then, it think HPalm missed their boat to be honest. I'd be shocked if they pull any kind of significant marketshare moving forward.
  15. jamex's Avatar
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    #15  
    I am sure webos will succeed. It's not hard in todays smartphone market which hasn't even taken off fully as yet. I see Webos becoming the device of choice for business owners a thrown Palm once held. With the right hardware it can become very popular among geeks and gamers. There are lots of potential for growth in this smart phone market and that's why HP bought Palm. I don't think people realize how unpopular Android was before Verizon launched the Droid marketing campaign.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    The OP is referring to the OS not the hardware. That is what I am also referring to. Everyone already knows that the Pre hardware is outdated but it does not change the fact that the OS is still fabulous. Yes Android also has lots of name brand apps but honestly the only one I found useful was document editing even though I would hardly ever use it. I always have my netbook on me. I owned an Evo and then an EPic but just had to go back to the Pre. These devices are fast but I found the way things are done with Android to be annoying and not as fast. The portrait keypad I also found to be superior. The Android UI also has an identity crisis but maybe one day they will solve all these problems.
    That's all nifty and dandy, but an OS does not exist in a vacuum. If all things were equal, I would've probably purchased a computer with OSX some time ago. It's certainly aesthetically pleasing, and would be a new and interesting experience for me.

    Alas, they are NOT equal, and I see no reason to buy a machine that isn't Wintel given the price disparity between the laptops and desktops of the two platforms, unavailability of some of my favorite programs on the Mac platform, and being limited to Apple's hardware choices and support.

    Same goes for smartphones. I really do like WebOS, but I don't like it enough to sit forever on the sidelines as competing platforms offer Rhapsody or Zune marketplace, Netflix streaming apps, games ACTUALLY MADE FOR their platform instead of a bunch of ports, integration with Apple and Google TV, car modes and so on and so forth.

    When Palm or HP announce some specific plans and partnerships to offer an ecosystem that will change this, it will be a brand new day. But a lot of what makes a handset worth buying these days isn't located within the code of its operating system. So if you guys wanna keep giving Palm No-Prizes for the almost two-year old achievement of launching WebOS, great. Consumers think about more than that, and that is largely why Palm is in the almost zero percent mind and marketshare glut they currently occupy.
  17. #17  
    How unpopular? or just not known?

    There is a difference. Not only is WebOS barely known by most consumers, its unpopular by many of the geeky consumers.

    It simply got a bad rap in its year out. Yeah it was praised at first but a year later, no one is really talking about it outside of this forum But even then, look how many people left WebOS. I mean, this is a forum here you should have the die hard fans. Hell, i was a pretty big palm fan boy, but even I realized its not there.

    Now here is the issue with smart phones these days.....when you are buying apps you are pretty much buying them for one platform. Its one of the reasons many people stuck with iPods back when itunes had DRM'd music. They simply couldn't play their music on another device.

    So you HPalm is coming up against 3+ year of people buying iPhone apps. That'll be a real tough sale to convince someone to leave (esp. since it IS a good phone).

    Next you have those who didn't want or couldn't get an iPhone who bought into Android. Yes you are right, Droid was the first breakout phone....but android launched on T-Mobile haha....it wasn't going to get popular out the gate. but now you have a TON of android devices and people who bought into the app ecosystem.

    Now this is where HPalm sits....you had a year + out....even less time with paid apps even available. You have a low market share, you have people who abandoned the brand because of the poor hardware or frustrations with the software. So they are facing a few challenges:
    1. Convince people they fixed the issues that some people had with WebOS
    2. Convince people who never even heard of WebOS why they should take a look
    3. Convince developers that WebOS is still viable long term so the app amount and app types can be increased.
    4. Microsoft
    5. Google
    6. Apple
    7. RIM

    Again, look at my post history, i was a Palm ******, but they are up against A LOT. Hell, there are people saying Microsoft will have trouble getting in....if Microsoft is going to have trouble what is HPalm going to do? Microosft has the Xbox/Zune integration. Apple has the iTunes ecosystem, android has the Google integration.

    Palm is the only one who doesn't have any services to leverage. No hook. Not only that, it appears carriers (in the US at least) have moved on. Verizon is clearly 100% behind android, and sprint is looking like they want to go that route as well. T-Mobile is heavy android as well.

    Palm will have to bring out a lot to convince carriers to support their device.
  18. #18  
    It's become product association. Due to the vastly improved and superior hw that is available for the Android devices, most people associate that nice hw with Android sw, so by association Android rules.

    I'm still a Pre user and I still think WebOS is just a better, more elegant OS but it's hw foundation is lacking and has fallen far behind the curve.

    <-- I'll be getting drunk until we get new hw. Lol
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamex View Post
    I don't think people realize how unpopular Android was before Verizon launched the Droid marketing campaign.
    It was so unpopular that on one (the smallest) American carrier and in a couple of European carriers, it outsold WebOS devices on three American carriers and however many European carriers. It was so unpopular that 11 months after launch, it had 5x the number of apps that WebOS did 15 months after launch. It was so unpopular that it convinced three carriers to make it their flagship platform before one Droid went on sale, whereas WebOS got dissed by the only carrier that made it their flagship.

    If WebOS can become as "unpopular" as Android was before Droid launched, it would be an achievement.
  20.    #20  
    I own an Archos 5 Internet Tablet (I am aware that it runs 1.6, but I do have the maeket hacked onto it so I have a great grasp on Android) and I play extensively with Droids and the Evo.

    Also please notice that my original post was about the OS more than hardware. I understand the Pre's hardware is outdated, but my solution for that works for me. I use the Faster Cards animation Patch, Overclock to 1ghz, and carry a spare battery. I own a total of four batteries so even if I forget to charge a spare one night I usually have one to grab in the morning.
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