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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    I'm curious how non geeks like android. The ones I know don't really know how to make the best of it, one didn't even know what a widget is.

    I would recommend a pixi to them.
    I get the impression that they don't look at a phone's finer points as closely as people like us do. Remember the clunkiness of dumb phones you owned in the past that you were willing to just accept--or not even notice it as clunkiness--because the most important features worked? That's probably how it is for casual, non-geek users with Android. it sells because it's omnipresent and is simply "good enough."
  2. #42  
    my july 09 pre lasted a year with no problems till the bluetooth and wifi antennas stopped working. got a free refurb from sprint and had the touchscreen stop working in 30 days. while i was waiting to get this replacement(which took an hour in the sprint store) i saw 3 others bringing their pre in for hardware issues. I have only seen 2 pre s in the wild.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ikkf View Post
    I get the impression that they don't look at a phone's finer points as closely as people like us do. Remember the clunkiness of dumb phones you owned in the past that you were willing to just accept--or not even notice it as clunkiness--because the most important features worked? That's probably how it is for casual, non-geek users with Android. it sells because it's omnipresent and is simply "good enough."
    The constant applying to android as being clunky is hysterical.

    Have a text message? Click the app or notification.


    Same with email.

    Want the web? Click the app.

    Want to change settings for anything? Go to settings.

    Can people start being specific on what they find clunky about android?
  4.    #44  
    Can people start being specific on what they find clunky about android?
    I can share my experience. After using "Just type" on pre to launch an app, I really found it clunky to open an app on android.

    Here are the steps on a pre:
    1. swipe up
    2. type the first three letters of the app
    3. tap app icon

    On android:
    1. hit home button
    2. swipe up app drawer
    3. sort through hundreds of unorganized apps to find what you are looking for
    4. keep sorting
    5. keep looking, up, down, up, down
    6. Ah there it is, click icon

    Here is the process to go to an app you were using before on pre
    1. swipe up
    2. swipe up
    3. swipe sideways
    4. tap card that looks just like you left it

    Here is how to do it on android IF it was one of the last 6 used apps
    1. hold home button
    2. select icon from list
    3. app may or may not be as you left it

    If it was not one of the last 6 apps you were using then repeat the process for finding a app the first time

    Add to that the general clutter look of everything, notifications are a jumbled mess, apps have to be opened to interact with, (not so in webOS, notification area is functional), the desk top that is a jumble of icons and widgets, swipe down for notifications, up for apps, side to side for other desktops, all seemed a bit clunky to me. The never ending scroll of apps in the ugly drawer. That is just what I can remember off the top of my head from a few days ago.
    Palm 1000 > Palm Pro > Palm III > Palm IIIe X 3 > Palm IIIc > Palm TT > HTC Wizard > HTC Blue Angel > Palm TX > Zier 31 > Palm T3 > Palm Pre > FrankenPre 2 > TouchPad/Droid/Ubuntu > TP/ICS
  5. Helidos's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    I can share my experience. After using "Just type" on pre to launch an app, I really found it clunky to open an app on android.

    Here are the steps on a pre:
    1. swipe up
    2. type the first three letters of the app
    3. tap app icon

    On android:
    1. hit home button
    2. swipe up app drawer
    3. sort through hundreds of unorganized apps to find what you are looking for
    4. keep sorting
    5. keep looking, up, down, up, down
    6. Ah there it is, click icon
    Have you used android more than picking one up for 2 mins..

    On Android:
    1. Hit dedicated search button
    2. Start typing app name
    3. Click the app icon

    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post

    Here is the process to go to an app you were using before on pre
    1. swipe up
    2. swipe up
    3. swipe sideways
    4. tap card that looks just like you left it

    Here is how to do it on android IF it was one of the last 6 used apps
    1. hold home button
    2. select icon from list
    3. app may or may not be as you left it
    You do know the way you describe using webos is more steps than android so I'll fix it for you...

    Here is the process to go to an app you were using before on pre
    1. Advance Gesture left or right

    Here is how to do it on android
    1. hold home button
    2. select icon from list
    3. app may or may not be as you left it

    Or you can use the dedicated back button and most of the time you will go to the app you were using before left as is. But not always so webos shines here.

    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    Add to that the general clutter look of everything, notifications are a jumbled mess, apps have to be opened to interact with, (not so in webOS, notification area is functional), the desk top that is a jumble of icons and widgets, swipe down for notifications, up for apps, side to side for other desktops, all seemed a bit clunky to me. The never ending scroll of apps in the ugly drawer. That is just what I can remember off the top of my head from a few days ago.
    Maybe if you took the time to set up the home screens and spent some time configuring the widgets you may think different. Instead of blindly rambling about multitasking on webos/android and your even doing it the slow way on webos.

    If funny how people pickup a phone up play with it for all of 2 mins and go i know all there is and here's my review/opinion on something they hardly know how to use.
  6. #46  
    Pretty much what helidos said.

    My homescreen is setup just the way i like it. Any and all important apps i open often are on my homescreen (and games are in a folder on my homescreen).

    Outside of that, either set up android search to search apps, or just open the app drawer than press search and search your apps.

    This was my original fear, that people who find android clunky used it for a day and said its clunky. Are there stuff webOS does better? Absolutely. Notifications are better on webos....but far from bad on android.

    I've also learned to appreciate androids multi-tasking where i'm questioning if WebOS was as cracked up as it meant to be in actual usage. Yes its prettier and innovative....however, android i dont' worry about closing apps. I just use my phone. Most apps remain on the last page they were on so unlike webos where i closed my apps most of the time on android i can just open apps and android is smart enough to close things it needs to close.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I've also learned to appreciate androids multi-tasking where i'm questioning if WebOS was as cracked up as it meant to be in actual usage. Yes its prettier and innovative....however, android i dont' worry about closing apps. I just use my phone. Most apps remain on the last page they were on so unlike webos where i closed my apps most of the time on android i can just open apps and android is smart enough to close things it needs to close.
    There's an implication that multitasking on Android and iOS is a hack or a clumsy kludge. In reality, though, they are really elegant, state-of-the-art pieces of computer science. People get dazzled by the idea of "true multitasking" because it implies something greater than the alternative. Once you give iOS and Android a chance, though, you realize they can do everything WebOS can without the performance and power hit.
  8. #48  
    I used to buy into that stuff too cause I read this site too much. I never owned any apple device until the ipad so when people here kept calling it clunky and bad, I thought it was. Until i used it. And found it very easy to use and adapt to and found it far more functional than webos. And functional is something people here like to tout about webos.

    The thing is, people here are just as fanatical as fans of the other OSes are. Maybe worse cause webos fanatics are like rats backed into a corner and they have to fight harder due to the small market share. They feel like they have something to prove. Point is, try the competition out and use what's best for you. Don't just take the fanatics' word for things.

    This site is actually more rabid than ones for the other OSes. On the other sites, they don't spend all day attacking the competition, but here, that's all that happens (in addition to new daily predictions on pre2's launch). So try for yourself.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    and how much do the non geeks you know like their android phone? I didn't ask why they picked android..
    I've asked several people who have EVOs, Droids, Droid X's and i've yet to get a response that they don't like it and want to get rid of it. They've all said "I like it" and one said, "This thing is awesome." Oh an one of those people is a Pixi owner too. I think android is rough around the edges and not as streamlined as webos but it has tons of features and i think when you consider how great they are selling it's clear that most people are ok with Android. I used a droid x for a while. i'd take it easily. Plus Gingerbread is supposed to bring huge UI changes to android so its my guess that in the near future we'll see a much sexier android u.i. anyways. so it may be a non issue soon. kinda like you don't hear many people bringing up multitasking around the iphone anymore.

    I think for all the android is for geeks talk i think the Pre is totally for geeks too. It's got homebrew, hackers, everybody wants new kernals. Hell i didn't know what the hell a kernal was. And a lot of the talk i hear about how great the OS is and android is fragmented and every other article on this site relating to sdks and developers strikes me as very geek centric talk. I'm just now sure how much the average person really cares about his cell phone O.S. And normal people don't know what an sdk is. I got a computer i don't give a damn about software developer conferences. That's a more techie/tech geek sort of thing.

    And Bottom line. They are selling a lot of android phones and really that's all that matters.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator64 View Post
    I used to buy into that stuff too cause I read this site too much. I never owned any apple device until the ipad so when people here kept calling it clunky and bad, I thought it was. Until i used it. And found it very easy to use and adapt to and found it far more functional than webos. And functional is something people here like to tout about webos.

    The thing is, people here are just as fanatical as fans of the other OSes are. Maybe worse cause webos fanatics are like rats backed into a corner and they have to fight harder due to the small market share. They feel like they have something to prove. Point is, try the competition out and use what's best for you. Don't just take the fanatics' word for things.

    This site is actually more rabid than ones for the other OSes. On the other sites, they don't spend all day attacking the competition, but here, that's all that happens (in addition to new daily predictions on pre2's launch). So try for yourself.
    You apparently haven't met many rabid apple fanatics yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator64 View Post
    webos fanatics are like rats backed into a corner and they have to fight harder due to the small market share. They feel like they have something to prove.
    Sheesh. Lighten up, Francis.
    Last edited by ikkf; 09/16/2010 at 09:34 PM.
  11. #51  
    Just saying. I go read thru the forums for the competition and don't find as much vitriol there as I do here. People here are the ones who need to relax a bit.
  12. #52  
    Considering that Palm has been an endangered species for so long, that kind of behavior shouldn't be such a shock. Mac people were just like that back in the late '90s.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by japomani View Post
    I can share my experience. After using "Just type" on pre to launch an app, I really found it clunky to open an app on android.

    Here are the steps on a pre:
    1. swipe up
    2. type the first three letters of the app
    3. tap app icon

    On android:
    1. hit home button
    2. swipe up app drawer
    3. sort through hundreds of unorganized apps to find what you are looking for
    4. keep sorting
    5. keep looking, up, down, up, down
    6. Ah there it is, click icon
    ...
    Oh my...

    Check out the Palm webOS Homebrewer's Guide to Android. With two taps you are at your most recent apps or the 16 apps on your main homescreen. With folders you are 3 taps away from up to 256 apps...

    Multitasking
    Android Multitasking is automatic. There are no cards to remember to keep open. With 2 taps you are back where you left off:
    Most Recents Apps: Press Home for 1 second > {App}.
    16 Homescreen Apps: Tap Home > {App}.

    If you still miss cards, try the free Visual Task Switcher. But you may quickly find that no cards is better than having to use cards.

    _
    Example of Recent Apps _ _ Example of a Tools Folder
    Tap image for enlargement

    Folders: 3 Taps to 256 Apps
    One of the most missed features from Palm Treo's is Folders. Android lets you sort your apps into Folders such as Tools, Multimedia, Games, etc. Then just tap Home > {Folder} > {App} for any of up to 256 apps. FolderOrganizer takes folders to the next level putting up to 20 apps in each folder just 3 taps away. It can also change icons and labels and have 4x6 or 5x6 icons on each homescreen without rooting.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 09/17/2010 at 02:00 PM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    There's an implication that multitasking on Android and iOS is a hack or a clumsy kludge. In reality, though, they are really elegant, state-of-the-art pieces of computer science. People get dazzled by the idea of "true multitasking" because it implies something greater than the alternative. Once you give iOS and Android a chance, though, you realize they can do everything WebOS can without the performance and power hit.
    Simply not true. On my Pre, I can still read and access information on neighboring cards while working on the middle card. With Android, I have to completely switch over from one application to another in order to access information from another application. I do this all the time when using the email and messaging apps.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by weenarz1176 View Post
    Simply not true. On my Pre, I can still read and access information on neighboring cards while working on the middle card. With Android, I have to completely switch over from one application to another in order to access information from another application. I do this all the time when using the email and messaging apps.
    1. I think you are confusing task switching and multitasking. webOS has a beautiful task switcher. No arguments from me there. Multitasking on the other hand is very nice on both but I give the edge to Android because of the automatic nature of its methods. I've said in another post that I loved throwing cards off the top of the screen when I was done with an app in webOS. But I love the fact that I don't even have to think about app and memory management on an Android device even more.

    2. Honest question: How do you access and read information on neighboring cards "while" working on the middle card? During my year+ with the Pre, it is only a very small portion of neighboring cards that are displayed and not enough to do anything meaningful. The middle card also does not respond to inputs while in card mode. Even when in "tiny card" mode (where you can rearrange cards), they are to small to do anything meaningful and none of them responds to input.

    3. Lastly I think the whole multitasking argument has become a moot point. It was supposed to be webOS' clame to fame. Many, including myself, thought the iOS implementation would be subpar. As it stands today, most Android, iOS and webOS users are happy with how their respective OSes handle multitasking. Not many are switching to or from their OS solely because of another OS' perceived ability (or lack thereof) to multitask.
    Last edited by taharka; 09/17/2010 at 02:56 PM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    My gf wanted a Pre after i got mine last year. She started off, much like me...LOVING the device. Then 4 replacements later (and her last one being ****ty as well) she absolutely hated her device...
    this is pretty much where i ended up. Not 4 replacements. I'm on my original sprint pre but i went from liking it to being annoyed to being pretty ****ed off at the device for the usual number of reasons mentioned. I came out of warranty a few months ago so i took the shot at changing the kernal. it's a bit quicker it still has issues.

    But what set me off today was it failed to deliver voicemail for the last 4 days. i missed important stuff. 27 messages. My mother thought i was dead. lol. Well not really funny but... Anyways I don't know if it's sprint or Palm's fault but it still ****ed me off. but if it's not a cracked screen or a broken power button or a screen that doesn't recognize my finger its something else. And not 2 seconds ago. the Pre is in front of me as i'm typing and it just crashed and rebooted itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I'm deathly afraid my launch month Pre will not make it to next spring.
    this is 100% me. i swear my phone is slowly dying. I dont' buy phones every year to keep up with the latest thing. i'm still using the Pre only cause sprint is cheap and i'm stuck in a contract. I hope HP does ok but the more problems this phone has the less likely i am to be a repeat customer next year. And that's even if they were able to exceed the competitors in terms of hardware, software, features, desktop sync, etc. I just hope it last for a few more months.

    someone said they need to worry about the nongeeks they ****ed off in the last 15 days. personally i think there's merit to that cause they are the bulk of consumers and the stuff the cousins and girlfriends are mad about don't seem to being addressed by stack cards and other stuff in 2.0.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    this is pretty much where i ended up. Not 4 replacements. I'm on my original sprint pre but i went from liking it to being annoyed to being pretty ****ed off at the device for the usual number of reasons mentioned. I came out of warranty a few months ago so i took the shot at changing the kernal. it's a bit quicker it still has issues.

    But what set me off today was it failed to deliver voicemail for the last 4 days. i missed important stuff. 27 messages. My mother thought i was dead. lol. Well not really funny but... Anyways I don't know if it's sprint or Palm's fault but it still ****ed me off. but if it's not a cracked screen or a broken power button or a screen that doesn't recognize my finger its something else. And not 2 seconds ago. the Pre is in front of me as i'm typing and it just crashed and rebooted itself.



    this is 100% me. i swear my phone is slowly dying. I dont' buy phones every year to keep up with the latest thing. i'm still using the Pre only cause sprint is cheap and i'm stuck in a contract. I hope HP does ok but the more problems this phone has the less likely i am to be a repeat customer next year. And that's even if they were able to exceed the competitors in terms of hardware, software, features, desktop sync, etc. I just hope it last for a few more months.

    someone said they need to worry about the nongeeks they ****ed off in the last 15 days. personally i think there's merit to that cause they are the bulk of consumers and the stuff the cousins and girlfriends are mad about don't seem to being addressed by stack cards and other stuff in 2.0.
    I must say, i don't know how i lived without visual voicemail on my Evo. haha...you probably could've used it in your situation.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I must say, i don't know how i lived without visual voicemail on my Evo. haha...you probably could've used it in your situation.
    Google Voice FTW for sure. Between email, SMS, and Notification Bar alerts, it's nigh impossible to omit a voicemail. Storing the voicemail on your phone in a sound file is a bonus.
  19. #59  
    I must also hang my head in shame when I announce that I picked up a Samsung Galaxy S yesterday. Since I was still on contract with my Pre, the only thing I could do without paying the early termination fee was to drop my Pre to a barebones service and open a new 3 year contract for the Galaxy. I really miss the WebOs and it's "patchability". My daughter will make good use of the Pre but for me, the hardware issues were getting to be too much. After waiting over 10 weeks for my third replacement, the power button stopped clicking and I had to use 100 psi to mash the button enough for it to work. Then I began having issues with charging...the battery percent would turn blue and it would say charging at the bottom, but the percentage would continue to decrease. This is only 2 weeks since I picked it up. In any event, I'm not flaming the operating system, I loved it! I'll always be a WebOs fan to the core. Maybe the next generation phone will be solid, hardware-wise and I'll be forced to open a third contract.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I must say, i don't know how i lived without visual voicemail on my Evo. haha...you probably could've used it in your situation.
    Wow. You've managed to mention one of the few things i really wanted on the Pre and didn't get that i completely forgot about not having. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Miles From Nowhere View Post
    the power button stopped clicking and I had to use 100 psi to mash the button enough for it to work.
    that's what happened to mine. i was freaking out one day when it ran out of juice and i couldn't get it to turn back on.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 09/17/2010 at 07:37 PM.
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