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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by JDGAFFLIN View Post
    In regards to the subject. A phone need not sell as much as the iPhone to be successful. That's silly and ridiculous to expect. It just has to make the manufactuer a, ya know, profit. It's just stupid to base if a device is successful off of what Apple's numbers are. There is more then enough space in the mobile market for a bunch of successful devices.
    Well stated, IMO, and undeniably correct.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by JDGAFFLIN View Post
    In regards to the subject. A phone need not sell as much as the iPhone to be successful. That's silly and ridiculous to expect. It just has to make the manufactuer a, ya know, profit. It's just stupid to base if a device is successful off of what Apple's numbers are. There is more then enough space in the mobile market for a bunch of successful devices.
    Correct. It is foolish to compare the iPhone with any other device. It is not Apple that started that trend. It is everyone else, including fans of other devices, who like to pretend that there is some comparison to their device of choice and the iPhone. Google is the one who wants to pretend that they have sales parity with, even superiority to the iPhone.

    Yesterday, Apple made it clear that all of Android OS does not match iOS in new activations per day. Profitability is not even close. As if you needed more proof, Apple beats Android, 6 -1 on the web. Like I said, pretending to be in the same market, playing the same game, on the same playing-field is absurd.

    Palm and its supporters need to identify a more realistic target for competition. As I stated before, I believe they need to take on Android in the sub-premium, entry level category. webOS can still differentiate itself from Android easily, as Android is something that appeals to geeks and tweekers.

    webOS can be the entry level smartphone for people who just want a decent out of the box experience, but who can not, for whatever reason, step up to an iPhone. Price it at $50 for the carriers, and free for the second tier vendors, and you might just have something. Try to market an iPhone killer, and it will die faster than the KIN.
  3. #83  
    Love the "most popular = best" argument. You think any movie is better than Avatar? What a loser. Call me when you are ready to step up. Album of the year of 2010? Obviously Eminem's Recovery. A couple of years back, it was undeniably Black Eyed Peas. Hope your DVR has nothing but the top 10 Nielsen shows. Who are pathetic scum unable to "step up" to Windows from OSX?

    Nothing is good unless millions of people validate it! How do you compare your less common choice?

    There is no lamer response.
  4. #84  
    Most popular is almost always best when you're a stockholder.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    First you say they are selling them for $198... then state that wasn't what you really said... Then state that HTC would have made more revenue if they charged $300 to the carriers...

    It's generally believed that carriers pay $450+ for these high end devices.

    And lmao at Apple earning 1Billion in revenue in the iTunes store but most of that goes back to the labels and the cost of "running the iTunes store"....

    You also realize that they are leveraging the iTunes store in order to sell their devices at high margins?

    Nevermind.... You are absolutely all over the place...
    Dude, I gave two examples because the web link only gave sales for the month of April. So, I had to make assumptions of what the sales would be for May and June. So, I used to 2 different averages to give a very broad, simple idea of what the selling prices were if they sold x amount of phones. I made that very clear in my posts.

    This all came about because YOU kept saying that they must be selling a ton of expensive phones because the carriers are always sold out of them.

    I was using the revenue that was given as $1.88 billion and the sales of 4.5 million in April, and gave two different guesses for each month of May and June twice because the info wasn't given to show to you that it seems they are not selling that many premium phones if their revenue was only $1.88 billion.

    Then I used the average selling price of the phone at $300 to show that if they were selling them at those prices and at the sales that were given for April and what I guessed to for May and June. That their revenues would be more than $1.88 billion.

    To use your price of $450 for high end devices. If every phone in the month of April (4.5 million sold) were a premium phone then in that month alone without including May or June, their revenue would have been $2,025,000,000. That's more than the $1.88 billion that was reported for the whole quarter.

    So, that tells you that HTC is not selling mostly premium phones. They are still selling a lot of cheaper phones. Which goes back to my original comment to you. That just because a lot of premium Android devices are sold out all the time does not mean they are selling a ton of them.

    As for iTunes, I gave an example of a product service from Apple that is not high margin. Apple could have very easily added the so called Apple tax to those songs as a condition to have them in the iTunes store if they wanted to make more money. Just like they used to resell the HP and Canon inkjet printers with the Apple logo on them and a higher price than what HP and Canon sold to consumers.

    It's very evident that you want to just take things out of context and post whatever you want. Sorta, like that guy that cut and pasted that video of the USDA worker that tried to show her being racist without releasing the entire video to show what she was really trying to say. So, I will not be responding to anymore of your pathetic posts on this topic.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What you fail to realize is that for some people, Apple is the product that is the Toyota, and they're happy owning what they perceive to be the Lexus.

    But I know...we're an ignorant bunch content with lesser goods. Good to see some people living in defiance of the stereotype of Apple fans as snobby jerks who get off goading people who own other devices.....


    ........
    They say the same thing about BMW owners...

    But, read any car magazine and the BMW 3 series is the benchmark that any premium car in it's class is compared to. Sorta like a lot of Apple products are always used to compare against a competing product.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Love the "most popular = best" argument. You think any movie is better than Avatar? What a loser. Call me when you are ready to step up. Album of the year of 2010? Obviously Eminem's Recovery. A couple of years back, it was undeniably Black Eyed Peas. Hope your DVR has nothing but the top 10 Nielsen shows. Who are pathetic scum unable to "step up" to Windows from OSX?

    Nothing is good unless millions of people validate it! How do you compare your less common choice?

    There is no lamer response.
    It depends on the product and how much that product costs.

    Do you really think that everybody that buys a Ford wants that Ford? They really want a Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. But, they can't afford those cars and they have to settle for a Ford. That's why Ford outsells all those other makes combined.

    To use Apple, because that's who you are talking about. Apple stuff is not the cheapest. You can get more value for your dollar with some other product in just about every product category Apple competes in. BUT, people still choose to buy those Apple products over the cheaper others. They do that because they truly want the more expensive Apple product because they think it is better for them.

    If Apple were flooding the market with cheaper products and people were buying them in droves because of cheaper prices only then you can say the most popular=best is bunk. But, with Apple that is not the case. A lot of Apple's products are very popular at their higher prices because they are actually better than the competition and people actually want to buy them.
  8. #88  
    Only to people who buy them. But I know...everyone else actually wants Apple too, they just can't afford it. Too funny....
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    It depends on the product and how much that product costs.

    To use Apple, because that's who you are talking about. Apple stuff is not the cheapest. You can get more value for your dollar with some other product in just about every product category Apple competes in. BUT, people still choose to buy those Apple products over the cheaper others. They do that because they truly want the more expensive Apple product because they think it is better for them.
    Don't really have a dog in this fight, but there is a bit of a logical lapse in this argument. It's not like Apple chooses to dominate in the smartphone market, but graciously conceded the laptop and desktop market to others. Nor did they choose to allow other browsers to dominate at the expense of Safari.

    You really can't ride the "it's the best because people buy them even though they are sold at a higher price" horse with getting trampled by your own argument. There are a myriad of other factors that determine marketshare at any given time.
    Last edited by C-Note; 09/02/2010 at 07:43 PM.
  10. #90  
    So because you can get superior devices, at cheaper prices, with better mobile service, Apple is somehow the winner?
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Don't really have a dog in this fight, but there is a bit of a logical lapse in this argument. It's not like Apple chooses to dominate in the smartphone market, but graciously conceded the laptop and desktop market to others. Nor did they choose to allow other browsers to dominate at the expense of Safari.

    You really can't ride the "it's the best because people buy them even though they are sold at a higher price" horse with getting trampled by your own argument. There are a myriad of other factors that determine marketshare at any given time.
    Apple didn't graciously concede the laptop and desktop market to others. They just don't compete in the markets that are the largest when it comes to computers. I think we all know that Apple does not try to go after the huge enterprise markets or large businesses. The two markets where the majority of computers are sold. Businesses are also price conscious and unless they need the capability of a Mac they are not going to pay extra for it when a cheaper PC will do the same thing, even if it's not as user friendly as a Mac.

    Their main markets are consumer, small business, education, graphics, and other speciality markets. In those markets they have a respectable market share.

    If you look at the markets that they compete in and not this broad market that they don't compete in then you will see that Apple does well.

    Just like the iPhone market is not as large as the general, cheap cell phone market.

    Just like Ferrari does not sell anywhere near as many cars as Ford. But, you wouldn't call them a failure because they compete in two totally different markets in the broad auto industry.

    A very good example is Nokia. Nokia probably sells more phones in one month than Apple sells iPhones in one year. But, Apple is still considered extremely successful in the smart phone market because Nokia sells more cheap phones that are not in the same market as the much slower selling iPhone. BUT, look at the smart phones that Nokia sells that actually compete against the iPhone and then compare results and Apple does very well against Nokia in that market in which they both actually compete.

    As for browsers. Most people are going to use what is installed on the computer by default or what they know from work and it's not Safari.

    I have stated all this stuff before in previous posts. There should be a stickie post of the myths vs facts when it comes to Apple because apparently a lot of so-called techie people are really clueless when it comes to Apple and keep repeating the same old tired incorrect info.
    Last edited by SoFly; 09/02/2010 at 08:32 PM.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    As for browsers. Most people are going to use what is installed on the computer by default or what they know from work and it's not Safari.

    I have stated all this stuff before in previous posts. There should be a stickie post of the myths vs facts when it comes to Apple because apparently a lot of so-called techie people are really clueless when it comes to Apple and keep repeating the same old tired incorrect info.
    Speaking of incorrect info...uh, this post. Your reasoning as to why people do not use Safari is a complete joke. Firefox did not exist on work machines and did not come pre-installed on computers. Yet, it's grown to steal 22 percent marketshare in the past few years. Not only that, but Google Chrome came along under the same disadvantages plus the additional disadvantage of Friefox already existing, and IT has also surpassed Safari in marketshare in just two years.

    But Apple isn't "trying" to compete, you'd say? Yeah, that's obvious by the fact that they changed iTunes - you know, the syncing software that is a requisite for those 120 million iOS devices and however many classic iPods? - to continually try to spam your Wintel machine with Safari every time you install or download it. And that STILL didn't work.

    Maybe if they charge for it, people will see the light? Well, those non-ignorant ones who can afford it, anyway....
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Speaking of incorrect info...uh, this post. Your reasoning as to why people do not use Safari is a complete joke. Firefox did not exist on work machines and did not come pre-installed on computers. Yet, it's grown to steal 22 percent marketshare in the past few years. Not only that, but Google Chrome came along under the same disadvantages plus the additional disadvantage of Friefox already existing, and IT has also surpassed Safari in marketshare in just two years.

    But Apple isn't "trying" to compete, you'd say? Yeah, that's obvious by the fact that they changed iTunes - you know, the syncing software that is a requisite for those 120 million iOS devices and however many classic iPods? - to continually try to spam your Wintel machine with Safari every time you install or download it. And that STILL didn't work.

    Maybe if they charge for it, people will see the light? Well, those non-ignorant ones who can afford it, anyway....
    Where I work in the world of the federal government. Firefox is required to be installed on all our work computers and we are forced by computer policies to use Firefox by default over IE because some techie that make those decisions thinks it's safer than using IE. If IE needs to be used for a particular website, we have to get permission and they will allow IE for that particular website if they see the need. That's tons of government agencies and some of the military that has that policy. So, that's a lot of computers (millions) that is running Firefox by default. Then when people at work are told that it is safer than IE by their bosses, a lot of them will put it on their home PC.

    As for Google. They talk a lot about Chrome because they are trying to push Chrome as an alternative OS vs Windows. I'm sure people are trying it to see what it is all about. Chrome is more than just a browser. Google is saying it will be an OS.

    Apple doesn't talk loudly about Safari being available for the PC. They are not losing any money by people not installing it because it is free. So, why should they care? Safari is more for Apple to push their agenda of getting HTML 5 out there on the Mac and having a Flash free world on their mobile devices. Seems they are doing a very good job of getting HTML 5 out there and more and more websites making a flash free version for their sites for all the iOS devices.

    I just downloaded the new version of iTunes on my PC and they didn't try to force me to install Safari. So, looks to me like you're working with some outdated info.

    But, then you are talking about general PCs. In mobile devices, the mobile version of Safari is the most popular in mobile devices.

    See, you learned something today. Firefox is installed by default on a lot of computers. Oh, and by being installed by default. I mean using an locked down custom image that will be imaged on the hard drive on the new computers before being given to the workers.
    Last edited by SoFly; 09/03/2010 at 09:46 AM.
  14. #94  
    It's "the federal government" that accounts for 22 percent marketshare. And trying to repeatedly sneak install a program on 120 million different machines is less effective than Google "talking a lot". Ok, buddy. I learned something today alright.

    You're like a Penny Arcade parody of an Apple zealot. I am no longer certain you're a real person.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    This all came about because YOU kept saying that they must be selling a ton of expensive phones because the carriers are always sold out of them.
    BTW... HTC doesn't produce "dumb phones" (i.e. Nokia)... so that comparison is somewhat Apples to Oranges as well...

    PS: Don't look now but Sprint just sold out of their new shipment of 5 EVO's in a few days!
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Where I work in the world of the federal government. Firefox is required to be installed on all our work computers and we are forced by computer policies to use Firefox by default over IE because some techie that make those decisions thinks it's safer than using IE. If IE needs to be used for a particular website, we have to get permission and they will allow IE for that particular website if they see the need. That's tons of government agencies and some of the military that has that policy. So, that's a lot of computers (millions) that is running Firefox by default. Then when people at work are told that it is safer than IE by their bosses, a lot of them will put it on their home PC.

    As for Google. They talk a lot about Chrome because they are trying to push Chrome as an alternative OS vs Windows. I'm sure people are trying it to see what it is all about. Chrome is more than just a browser. Google is saying it will be an OS.

    Apple doesn't talk loudly about Safari being available for the PC. They are not losing any money by people not installing it because it is free. So, why should they care? Safari is more for Apple to push their agenda of getting HTML 5 out there on the Mac and having a Flash free world on their mobile devices. Seems they are doing a very good job of getting HTML 5 out there and more and more websites making a flash free version for their sites for all the iOS devices.

    I just downloaded the new version of iTunes on my PC and they didn't try to force me to install Safari. So, looks to me like you're working with some outdated info.

    But, then you are talking about general PCs. In mobile devices, the mobile version of Safari is the most popular in mobile devices.

    See, you learned something today. Firefox is installed by default on a lot of computers. Oh, and by being installed by default. I mean using an locked down custom image that will be imaged on the hard drive on the new computers before being given to the workers.
    Odd... After 12 years in the military and few extra in the federal government (in IT/Intel)... I never ran across this...
    Also odd that a great majority of my colleagues and friends are still in the government/military and a fairly small fraction of them use Firefox (at work or home) in any manner.

    I'm sure there are small government departments/agencies where some network administrator(s) have chosen to do this based on some outdated browser security concerns or even legitimate ones... but do not try to perpetrate this is common across the entire federal government and military... because it is not.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's "the federal government" that accounts for 22 percent marketshare. And trying to repeatedly sneak install a program on 120 million different machines is less effective than Google "talking a lot". Ok, buddy. I learned something today alright.

    You're like a Penny Arcade parody of an Apple zealot. I am no longer certain you're a real person.
    No where did I say the Gov accounted for 22% of Firefox market share. I said we are required to use it. I'm sure other businesses, consumers, etc probably like using Firefox over IE. I know I like Firefox over IE on the PC because to me it seems faster. I'm sure other people notice that, too.

    How many business computers (the largest market for computers) would ever install iTunes? Mostly NONE. So, how would Safari have the opportunity to get installed on there in a sneaky way as you put it? About Chrome? We have a development section which is on an internal closed network and Chrome is installed and being used because people are curious about it because Google is pushing it as an future OS. Safari is just another browser. Nothing exciting about it.

    And no where did I say that everything Apple makes, they try to push it on everyone at any expense. Safari is just another FREE browser out there. You hear me talk about the Mac, iPhone, iPod, iPad and how successful those products are in the markets they compete in. Hardware is where Apple makes the majority of it's money, it's not software. I don't think you have heard me talk too much about Apple's software, other than Mac OS X, on this forum.

    Where is Apple trying to sneak Safari in with iTunes? Plese go to Apple. Click on the link at the very top that says "iTunes". Then when the page comes up, click the link in the upper right corner that says to "Download iTunes". Then another screen comes up and it says Download now. So, I downloaded it and NOWHERE does it try to install Safari.

    SO, YOU'RE LYING!
    Last edited by SoFly; 09/03/2010 at 01:00 PM.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Odd... After 12 years in the military and few extra in the federal government (in IT/Intel)... I never ran across this...
    Also odd that a great majority of my colleagues and friends are still in the government/military and a fairly small fraction of them use Firefox (at work or home) in any manner.

    I'm sure there are small government departments/agencies where some network administrator(s) have chosen to do this based on some outdated browser security concerns or even legitimate ones... but do not try to perpetrate this is common across the entire federal government and military... because it is not.
    Did I say every place with 100%. Where I work in a huge metro area with lots of federal gov and the military we use Firefox. I can't speak for the rest of the world or US where the military and fed gov have locations.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    BTW... HTC doesn't produce "dumb phones" (i.e. Nokia)... so that comparison is somewhat Apples to Oranges as well...

    PS: Don't look now but Sprint just sold out of their new shipment of 5 EVO's in a few days!
    No, but I bet a lot of those older phones are not sold for $199 on contract, which was the point I was making.

    It probably was just 5. If Android is selling so many phones, then why is the iOS platform beating Android 6 to 1 on the web?

    Apple's iOS beats Android 6:1 on the Web - Computerworld

    Apple's iOS mobile operating system is now the third-most popular platform on the Internet, with a share nearly six times larger than Android's, a Web measurement company said Wednesday.
    So, you can gather two things from this. Either, a TON of people are buying Android devices, but just not using them on the web. Or, Android is simply not selling as many devices as you think they are.

    You have Apple selling the iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad against all those Android device manufacturers and all those manufacturer's can't even match half of what Apple is doing being just ONE company that sells iOS devices? Yeah, I think that Google is overstating how many devices they are activating. Just as Steve Jobs said at the Apple Event on Wed.

    Anyways, this is the start of my long weekend. I have a plane to catch and the start of my vacation. See ya next week.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Only to people who buy them. But I know...everyone else actually wants Apple too, they just can't afford it. Too funny....
    funny enough, even though it was meant as sarcasm, if the iPhone were available on other carriers in the US it probably would sell more.

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