Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 171
  1. #41  
    You also just glossed over the point of sale/sales numbers portion.

    Edit: ignore I typed that on my phone while you responded.
    Last edited by gmanvbva; 08/31/2010 at 04:58 PM.
  2. #42  
    Obviously Sprint and Verizon are making a huge mistake selling the Droid X, Droid 2, EVO and EPIC for $199 +. So much so that they can't make them fast enough.
  3. #43  
    Supply and demand economics will rule, until the most needy part of the smartphone market has been satisfied; with 3.5 billion cell phone users in the world, and only about 300 - 400 million currently being smartphone users, this worldwide market is only in its infancy.

    There WILL be a time, sooner than everyone believes (IMO), that the smartphones will become like PC's, with high power and low cost to market, but, right now, we are still too close to the real inception of the iPhone-created "Hi-Quality-UserExperience smartphone", as form-factors for the devices still vary widely in size and processing power hasnt really caught up with potential device functionality, and lets not even begin to talk about battery power support - so these devices havent totally been defined, functionally, yet, and that leaves thier hardware still in a state of metamorphisis, as well.

    No, this market has a long way to go to develop, and extend into those remaining 3.15 billion potential worldwide users hands, and inasmuch, that's going to spell a much higher "demand" with respect to the potential "supply" at least for a while.. for those devices that truly stand out, such as the iPhone has, and the Droid did last year.

    It is in this regard, and with respect to the above, that HP has bought PALM and accelerated thier entry into this huge, HUGE market, where, if they execute well, they can be VERY successful, where others with less experience and physical/financial resources might fail.

    The original post fails, in my opinion, to recognize this, as it sees Apple and the iPhone as owning the market, rather than helping to revise an existing one that already existed, where many players have already enough experience to join in at some point, with really competitive, and even more innovative/unique products, as well, placing THEM in high demand, just as the iPhone has enjoyed, almost exclusively, to this point.

    It will be very interesting to see if the Pre 2, if it is "state of the art" and well recieved by critics and consumers alike, will have an extraordinary (or at least a better than others to date) market success, and prove my hypothsis above, or not.

    IMO, of course.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 08/31/2010 at 05:18 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #44  
    dandbj13 do you own an Iphone?
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by yaggermr View Post
    dandbj13 do you own an Iphone?
    Yes. Is that important for this discussion?
  6. #46  
    One thing I keep hearing is that that the carriers and manufacturers can't product such and such smart phone fast enough. And because that is the case you ASSUME that such and such phone is selling incredibly well.

    But, if HTC only has the ability to manufacture 250,000 of a particular phone model per month and there is a two week waiting list because they are constantly sold out, but Apple has the ability to manufacture 2 million iPhones per month and there is no waiting list. Who is really selling more? Just because something is sold out all the time does not mean they are selling a ton of them.

    You can easily find out how many smart phones Apple has sold each quarter and you get the info directly from Apple every quarter when they do their reports. Can you find the same info directly from HTC or Samsung of the amount of smart phones they sell each quarter?

    Seriously, if HTC, Samsung, or Motorola were selling as many smart phones as so many pundits like to say, wouldn't they be screaming from the roof tops saying how well they have done compared to the iPhone? But, instead all we get is Google saying they are activating xxx amount of phones per day. That's just weak (smoke and mirrors). Just as bad as Amazon saying how Kindle is the best selling item on Amazon.com, but has never released any sales numbers.

    Look at this article:

    asymco | Android’s Pursuit of the Biggest Losers

    Looks to me like Apple is making the majority of the money in the smart phone market. As they usually do in the markets they compete in. Such as:

    [According to NPD, in June, nine out of 10 dollars spent on computers costing $1,000 or more went to Apple. Mac revenue market share in the "premium" price segment was 91 percent.
    To them still owning and making the majority of the profits in the MP3 market. To an awesome lead in the tablet market.

    So, those Android phones may start out at $199 for the consumer to buy on contract, but once they start setting around in the stock rooms not being sold they quickly drop in price or become free on contract, or maybe someone can explain why those charts in that web link above shows Apple with the majority of the money.

    As usual, Apple cares about how much money they make, not how many cheap items they can sell to the masses. If a lot of people buy Apple products, even more money for them.
    Last edited by SoFly; 08/31/2010 at 06:04 PM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    I mean you almost seem to be arguing against yourself. Android with it's huge (yes, huge) growth in the market over the past 12 months with "hyped smartphones" for free () can't even compete with Apple (according to you).
    I will say that a lot of the growth for Android is because the iPhone is not on Verizon. So, Android is not competing FULLY with Apple.

    I welcome the day when the iPhone finally does come to Verizon and then we can truly see which phone OS the masses truly want. But, right now you can't say Android is beating the iPhone without the iPhone on Verizon.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Obviously Sprint and Verizon are making a huge mistake selling the Droid X, Droid 2, EVO and EPIC for $199 +. So much so that they can't make them fast enough.
    Wow. You keep repeating that, but did it every occur to you, that they actually may be selling very little because they are not manufacturing that many. Which would, by default, make them be constantly sold out and NOT selling a lot on the level of the iPhone.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    One thing I keep hearing is that that the carriers and manufacturers can't product such and such smart phone fast enough. And because that is the case you ASSUME that such and such phone is selling incredibly well.

    But, if HTC only has the ability to manufacture 250,000 of a particular phone model per month and there is a two week waiting list because they are constantly sold out, but Apple has the ability to manufacture 2 million iPhones per month and there is no waiting list. Who is really selling more? Just because something is sold out all the time does not mean they are selling a ton of them.
    That's an irrelevant metric anyway. Nokia sells "a ton" of all kinds of phones all across the world, and no major manufacturer is more ill-equipped to compete in the current smartphone market.

    The point is HTC and Motorola are shipping millions and millions of devices per quarter, and they appear to be selling them as fast as they can make them. You can't really ask for much more than to be able to meet demand at the price you desire, with very little supply left over.

    You can easily find out how many smart phones Apple has sold each quarter and you get the info directly from Apple every quarter when they do their reports. Can you find the same info directly from HTC or Samsung of the amount of smart phones they sell each quarter?
    Uh, yes?

    Seriously, if HTC, Samsung, or Motorola were selling as many smart phones as so many pundits like to say, wouldn't they be screaming from the roof tops saying how well they have done compared to the iPhone? But, instead all we get is Google saying they are activating xxx amount of phones per day. That's just weak (smoke and mirrors). Just as bad as Amazon saying how Kindle is the best selling item on Amazon.com, but has never released any sales numbers.

    Look at this article:

    asymco | Android’s Pursuit of the Biggest Losers

    Looks to me like Apple is making the majority of the money in the smart phone market. As they usually do in the markets they compete in. Such as:



    To them still owning and making the majority of the profits in the MP3 market. To an awesome lead in the tablet market.

    So, those Android phones may start out at $199 for the consumer to buy on contract, but once they start setting around in the stock rooms not being sold they quickly drop in price or become free on contract, or maybe someone can explain why those charts in that web link above shows Apple with the majority of the money.

    As usual, Apple cares about how much money they make, not how many cheap items they can sell to the masses. If a lot of people buy Apple products, even more money for them.
    Great for Apple. No one is disputing that. But this portrayal that Android and its manufacturers are giving away phones and software (Android is free. Google apps and the Market being on your handset is not.) and not making money is just silly and easily disproven. Apple is a complete ecosystem of consumer electronics company, dealing in hardware, software and media/content. HTC and Motorola just make phones featuring a non-exclusive operating system shared by plenty of other phone makers. They're not matching Apple in sales, scale, profit and pop cultural impact?

    They're not trying to. Are we going to debate next how independent film studios should never be given awards or credibility since the entirety of their individual slates for 2009 combined didn't make as much as Avatar? Speaking of which, that film made the most money of a film ever, so it's the "bestest" too? Right?
    Last edited by mikah912; 08/31/2010 at 07:08 PM.
  10. #50  
    I don't get why you guys argue with this one. This guy is honestly the worst of the worst. This is honestly the biggest pile of crap ive read on the internet in forever. This kid has no credibility and obviously has a serious case of brand loyalty. The whole op is completely irrational and illogical, you are all wasting your time here.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Wow. You keep repeating that, but did it every occur to you, that they actually may be selling very little because they are not manufacturing that many. Which would, by default, make them be constantly sold out and NOT selling a lot on the level of the iPhone.
    You can find some metrics if you want to.....
    But perhaps you are just good at searching the internet for sales prices on phones.
  12. #52  
    do you own an iphone?
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Yes. Is that important for this discussion?
    Yes it very important. It gives perspective. I believe your emotionally involved with apple you feel good because your on the winning team. You make post commending the competition and singing the praises of steve jobs and apple. Then You post it at precentral so you can defend them with great vigor. Being well aware most people who own a palm phone probably don't have the insight you do. People who own a pre are on the losing side and need the gospel of Jobs to save there soul from web os and android hell. This is just a little perspective on being biased.
  13. #53  
    That's an irrelevant metric anyway. Nokia sells "a ton" of all kinds of phones all across the world, and no major manufacturer is more ill-equipped to compete in the current smartphone market.

    The point is HTC and Motorola are shipping millions and millions of devices per quarter, and they appear to be selling them as fast as they can make them. You can't really ask for much more than to be able to meet demand at the price you desire, with very little supply left over.
    It's very relevant. How many of those millions of devices that HTC and Motorola sell are premium smart phones that cost $199 with contract and not their cheaper "free with contract" stuff?

    As I have already said those premium phones can always be sold out because they are making a small quantity of them. So, broads stats mean nothing without details.

    Uh, yes?
    Uh, where are the sales details on the expensive $199 smart phones they sell? Broad stats mean nothing without details.

    Great for Apple. No one is disputing that. But this portrayal of Android and its manufacturers are giving away phones and not making money is just silly and easily disproven. Apple is a complete ecosystem of consumer electronics company, dealing in both hardware, software and media/content. HTC and Motorola make phones featuring a non-exclusive operating system shared by plenty of other phone makers.
    I didn't say Android manufacturer's were not making money. What I pointed out is that we don't know how many of those premium phones they are selling. All you know is that they are constantly out of stock. And they can be out of stock because they are manufacturing very little of them AND NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE SELLING THEM ON THE LEVEL OF THE IPHONE.

    They're not matching Apple in sales, scale, profit and pop cultural impact?
    That is not saying much when the iPhone is not on Verizon. We all know there are a ton of people that will not leave Verizon no matter what. Profit? Did you look at the chart in the web link I provided? It easily explains who is getting the majority of the profits.

    They're not trying to. Are we going to debate next how independent film studios should never be given awards or credibility since the entirety of their individual slates for 2009 combined didn't make as much as Avatar? Speaking of which, that film made the most money of a film ever, so it's the "bestest" too? Right?
    I don't think I hinted at that at all in my post. Considering that the iPhone would be the independent film and all the Android devices would be Avatar to use your movie analogy.

    But, something you forgot. All movies cost the same for people to go see them. So, if more people see Avatar, then, of course, it is going to make more than a better quality independent film. BUT, with Apple and their profits. They sell their stuff for more than the majority of the competition. So, they can sell less products at higher prices, but still make more money than the competition that sells more individual units.
    Last edited by SoFly; 08/31/2010 at 07:24 PM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    It's very relevant. How many of those millions of devices that HTC and Motorola sell are premium smart phones that cost $199 with contract and not their cheaper "free with contract" stuff?
    Whatever the percentage is, they're bringing in considerable profits and are expanding marketshare. It's a success. Period.

    As I have already said those premium phones can always be sold out because they are making a small quantity of them. So, broads stats mean nothing without details.

    Uh, where are the sales details on the expensive $199 smart phones they sale? Broad stats mean nothing without details.
    They just don't have the details YOU want. They seem to have enough for Wall Street analysts who think favorably of the direction they're heading in. Profits are happening, inventory aint sitting around. They don't have the revenue streams or sales models that Apple does, so why would they conduct business the same way?

    I didn't say Android manufacturer's were not making money. What I pointed out is that we don't know how many of those premium phones they are selling. All you know is that they are constantly out of stock. And they can be out of stock because they are manufacturing very little of them AND NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE SELLING THEM ON THE LEVEL OF THE IPHONE.
    And as I said, no one cares if any one device sells on the level of the iPhone. No one needs it to. Verizon doesn't need it to to beat ATT. Android doesn't need it to eventually overtake iOS in marketshare. HTC, Motorola, or Samsung doesn't need it to make great profits and boost their bottom line. So if there's no value in achieving that goal, why try?

    That is not saying much when the iPhone is not on Verizon. We all know there are a ton of people that will not leave Verizon no matter what. Profit? Did you look at the chart in the web link I provided? It easily explains who is getting the majority of the profits.
    That's precisely my point. Apple is a top-to-bottom hardware, software, and media company with revenue streams all over the place and a complete ecosystem of products leveraged against each other. I don't expect someone who just makes phones or tablets or MP3 players or OSes to match that. Apple SHOULD be dominating. You don't get a cookie for beating mortals if you're a titan. Do you get mad when your favorite local bakery doesn't outsell Hostess or when you're favorite local eatery can't match McDonalds? Who cares as long as they're doing well by their bottom line?

    On some levels, they ARE competitors. On some, they're clearly not.

    I don't think I hinted at that at all in my post. Considering that the iPhone would be the independent film and all the Android devices would be Avatar to use your movie analogy.
    ?????

    But, something you forgot. All movies cost the same for people to go see them. So, if more people see Avatar, then, of course, it is going to make more than a better quality independent film. BUT, with Apple and their profits. They sell their stuff for more than the majority of the competition. So, they can sell less products at higher prices, but still make more money than the competition that sells more individual units.
    Great for them. Their competitors can still succeed as well. Rovio doesn't have to make Halo ($50+). Just making Angry Birds ($2) makes them successful. You don't have to match the greatest phenomenons to be a success in your own right.
  15. #55  
    Just to give a little perspective on the financial numbers from that link that mikah912 gave.

    HTC posted a profit of $268 million in Q2 2010, that’s up 33%. Revenues hit $1.88 billion. In April alone the company sold 4.5 million devices.
    So, let's assume that HTC sold 4.5 million devices per month for Apr, May, and June. That would be a total of 13.5 million phones sold for the quarter. They also said that revenues hit $1.88 billion.

    So, with those numbers that means that the average price that HTC sold all their phones for is $139.

    Now, do you really think that HTC was selling that many premium phones to the carriers for $139 while the consumer is expected to to pay $199 on contract? Or, were they selling a ton of cheap phones and a lot less premium phones which is why they are constantly out of stock.

    Since, I know some of you are going to say they didn't sell that many phones every month. Here is the average selling price of their phones if their sales were:

    4.5 million in April, which the article already stated.
    3 million in May
    2 million in June.

    With those sales and revenue of 1.88 billion. The average price of the HTC phone that was sold to the carriers is still $198 per phone.

    I'll say it again...Now, do you really think that HTC was selling that many premium phones to the carriers for $198 while the consumer is expected to to pay $199 on contract for a premium phone? Or, were they selling a ton of cheap phones and a lot less premium phones which is why they are constantly out of stock.

    Let's see the responses of the people that will try to dispute this info.
  16. #56  
    sofly I read your post in many forums you always support apple products and criticize any other company. Your support for apple is admirable. Apple is winning they make more money than god and make the best products in the whole world. Thanks for the blind support and keep up the good fight.
  17. #57  
    The response is simple: We don't know the exact ratio so there's no point in arguing it.

    We do know, however, that every domestic carrier is happy to carry their devices and sell them at the exact same price point as the iPhone, except for ATT, which only offered a midrange HTC handset (the Aria) and priced it accordingly. ATT did, however, eagerly sign up for the Samsung Captivate and sells it for the same price they sell the iPhone 4 for.

    Some third party resellers subsidize it further and sell it cheaper, but they are making money as well.

    People are paying the $199 for Galaxy S class devices and HTC Incredibles and Evos, so they value them equal to the iPhone 4 as well. HTC and Samsung and Motorola are making their customers happy, investors happy, and themselves happy. And this is merely manufacturing hardware with some customization to the software. Not offering a content store or an OS of their own or an app store or a huge brand or any of the institutional advantages Apple enjoys.
  18. #58  
    Whatever the percentage is, they're bringing in considerable profits and are expanding marketshare. It's a success. Period.
    I don't consider $268 million considerable profits. Especially when Apple made over 12 times that amount in profit. But, only 8.7 times more sales than HTC. Apple has to sell a lot more low margin stuff than HTC which only had to sell high margin mobile devices.

    Yeah, expanding market share in a market that is no where near being saturated. Any company can enter the smart phone market and get some easy sales. Oh, except Palm, apparently.

    Overall, a weak argument on your part and you still generalize with no detail.

    They just don't have the details YOU want. They seem to have enough for Wall Street analysts who think favorably of the direction they're heading in. Profits are happening, inventory aint sitting around. They don't have the revenue streams or sales models that Apple does, so why would they conduct business the same way?
    They are not the ones making the comments about how many premium phones they are selling. YOU and others in this post are making these ASSUMPTIONS. I just try to use my brain and be logical about it.

    And as I said, no one cares if any one device sells on the level of the iPhone. No one needs it to. Verizon doesn't need it to to beat ATT. Android doesn't need it to eventually overtake iOS in marketshare. HTC, Motorola, or Samsung doesn't need it to make great profits and boost their bottom line. So if there's no value in achieving that goal, why try?
    But, you seem to care that because they are always sold out that must mean they are selling a lot of them. But, you don't care that you could be wrong and they are just not making a lot of them which means they would always be out of stock.

    That's precisely my point. Apple is a top-to-bottom hardware, software, and media company with revenue streams all over the place and a complete ecosystem of products leveraged against each other. I don't expect someone who just makes phones or tablets or MP3 players or OSes to match that. Apple SHOULD be dominating. You don't get a cookie for beating mortals if you're a titan. Do you get mad when your favorite local bakery doesn't outsell Hostess or when you're favorite local eatery can't match McDonalds? Who cares as long as they're doing well by their bottom line?

    On some levels, they ARE competitors. On some, they're clearly not.
    You missed the most important thing I originally said which is that Android doing so well is not that significant when the iPhone is not on Verizon to compete with Android. Instead you post some dribble about restaurants.

    ?????
    It seems you don't understand a lot of things.

    Great for them. Their competitors can still succeed as well. Rovio doesn't have to make Halo ($50+). Just making Angry Birds ($2) makes them successful. You don't have to match the greatest phenomenons to be a success in your own right.
    Halo and Angry Birds are not competitors. Two totally different markets. When you go car shopping do you look at $10,000 Fords and $250,000 Rolls Royce? Then why would someone looking for a $2 game for their mobile device also be looking for a game that costs $50 for a dedicated console device?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by yaggermr View Post
    sofly I read your post in many forums you always support apple products and criticize any other company. Your support for apple is admirable. Apple is winning they make more money than god and make the best products in the whole world. Thanks for the blind support and keep up the good fight.
    Not true. I criticize or point out the incorrect info that people post.

    If someone said Windows is the best platform for business, I would not dispute that.

    If someone said Windows is the best computer platform for gaming, I would not dispute that.

    If someone said that Android or Pre is the best phone if you want to tinker or customize your phone the way you want and that was very important to you over anything else, I would not dispute that.

    If someone said Blackberry is the best when it comes to business use email, I would not dispute that.

    BUT, people don't say things like that. They are saying things like mikah912 has been saying in his posts and I comment on them.

    Pay attention to the details that I provide in the posts that I make. So many people post inaccuracies and it's usually about Apple and I just try to provide the facts and in a lot of my posts I even provide web links so that you know I am not making it up.
  20. #60  
    The response is simple: We don't know the exact ratio so there's no point in arguing it.
    Then why make the assumption in the first place?

    We do know, however, that every domestic carrier is happy to carry their devices and sell them at the exact same price point as the iPhone, except for ATT, which only offered a midrange HTC handset (the Aria) and priced it accordingly. ATT did, however, eagerly sign up for the Samsung Captivate and sells it for the same price they sell the iPhone 4 for.

    Some third party resellers subsidize it further and sell it cheaper, but they are making money as well.

    People are paying the $199 for Galaxy S class devices and HTC Incredibles and Evos, so they value them equal to the iPhone 4 as well. HTC and Samsung and Motorola are making their customers happy, investors happy, and themselves happy. And this is merely manufacturing hardware with some customization to the software. Not offering a content store or an OS of their own or an app store or a huge brand or any of the institutional advantages Apple enjoys.
    Until the next hot Android device comes out in a couple of months then the previous slow seller Android devices get their prices lowered. While the iPhone has to compete for a whole year with the one model and the same $199 price. I don't think you can find one Android device that has ever sold at $199 for a whole year. Probably not even for 6 months before the price was lowered.

    But, I must congratulate you on a post that I actually like. Full of factual info. See, yaggermr.

    Good nite.
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions