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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I think that this is 91 keystrokes instead of 93 keystrokes? Versus 2 keystrokes?

    Please try sending this message to someone using your Pre. You are at about 60 seconds, right? Do you want to be driving while you send this text? Texting while driving is illegal in my state.

    I can do it in 2 keystrokes and in 10 seconds with Voice Actions while driving.

    The people who use Vlingo say it is easier and faster than even Voice Actions but I have never tried it. But if I can already send a text like this in 2 clicks, that's pretty good for me.

    - Craig
    It also illegal in my state text while driving. As I mentioned above it took me about 25 seconds to send that text message. I was just pointing out that the way you seem to be using your webOS phone for texting is not the most efficient.

    I don't disagree that voice commands would be more efficient and much more safe while driving. For me it probably would not be as efficient because as I said in previous posts on this thread most of the people I contact have international names. It would take at least two or three tries before most voice command applications find the right name.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    If the voice command capabilities can totally circumvent the UI at all times (well, most of the time anyway) I'd say perhaps it would...
    There is nothing that I do on my phone totally all of the time.

    I sometimes watch HD movies. I sometimes take videos. I sometimes send texts. I sometimes use it as a GPS. Sometimes I email. Heck sometimes I make phone calls.

    Voice Actions is just another tool that you can use as needed.

    [Edit]As to the User Interface
    If Palm took the 100 most popular patches [edit] and 100 more that we wish for and made them options in webOS you would be pretty close to Android. The downside is that you have 200 more options.

    Imagine if webOS let you set up Search just the way you wanted it. You would need about three screens of options. Those are the choices that Android gives you today.

    The upside is that you get 3 screens of options to tailor just how Search works.

    The downside is that you get 3 screens of options to tailor just how Search works.

    Having that much power over everything takes a day or two to get used to.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 08/13/2010 at 05:35 PM.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    On the Evo, all you have to do (from anywhere) is long-press the home button. That brings up the google voice action prompt, speak your command and viola.
    OK, forgot that trick!
    > Press and hold the Search key and you get Voice Search.
    > Say your command and text.
    > Tap Send.

    So you only have to glance at the screen once. My bad!

    - Craig
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    ...As I mentioned above it took me about 25 seconds to send that text message...
    Wow. If you can do that whole thing in 25 seconds by typing, you would be scary using Swype.

    Go to your Sprint store and see if their display is updated with the new Google Voice Search app (Voice Actions). Update it if not and see how it does for you.

    And then try Swype. I bet you could Swype almost as fast as I can talk.

    - Craig
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    #65  
    do you think a processor (hummingbird, or snapdragon) is better suited for voice command type applications?
  6. #66  
    More processing power is generally a good thing for anything....including voice recognition. That said intelligent algorithms are even more important.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    More processing power is generally a good thing for anything....including voice recognition. That said intelligent algorithms are even more important.
    That's exactly it. Wednesday the EVO had a 1 GHz CPU and pretty good speech recognition.

    Thursday the EVO had amazing speech recognition.

    The difference was in the better algorithm. I was told that what they have released is only half of what they intended to release. It was supposed to also be able to do things like:

    "set alarm tomorrow at 6:00 am"

    Not everything is in place yet. The next major algorithm update is in testing.

    I cannot imagine where they will take this next.

    [EDIT] And to explore the User Interface issues that you mentioned...what do you see as difficult to do in the Android UI? I agree that the zillion extra options in the setup is a lot of power but I rarely change settings once they are set up.

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 08/13/2010 at 06:23 PM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Swiping and moving cards for one. Given all the variables with voice recognition good old analog input is still going to be the standard for a while. The video is sexy and everything but in the real world, outside of a controlled video shoot, things tend to not work nearly as well.
    Especially if you are in a noisy environment.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Especially if you are in a noisy environment.
    Especially if you don't say the voice commands in the approved order and format.
  10.    #70  
    That's why I posted the video of Jason from Gizmodo speaking naturally in a noisy room with the handset nowhere near his face....and it still worked like a charm.

    But I'm sure some iPhone owner is dismissing the usefulness of cards and WebOS notifications similarly. That is what people do.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    But I'm sure some iPhone owner is dismissing the usefulness of cards and WebOS notifications similarly. That is what people do.
    And at the other extreme, some folks over-emphasize features that they personally find important (and yes, WebOS notifications and cards are perfect examples.)

    I think WebOS notifications and cards are great, but apparently - no matter how enthusiastic I am about them, they haven't revolutionized the phone industry (yet).

    In other words, I still think the "UI is clunky" comments are going to be relevant, at least until they clean up the UI.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Especially if you are in a noisy environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    Especially if you don't say the voice commands in the approved order and format.
    The video shows that Voice Actions works in noisy environments when you are speaking naturally.

    In this example, press and hold the Search button fpr Voice Search then say in a natural voice,

    "send text to Julia Rashad - I found the yellow jersey and can meet you with it at the north gate bleachers at 4"

    Then tap Send.

    It works for me in a noisy room and in my car with the music on.

    In that past speech recognition was not that good. Naturally Speaking made huge inroads on PC's over the years. Android had usable speech recognition before this. But I would rarely use it because it because of the inaccuracies and it's inability to capitalize. It was faster just to type.

    Voice Actions is accurate. Now speech recognition is accurate and significantly faster. Most people type 30 to 40 words per minute but speak at about 180 words per minute. Still speech recognition is just one tool along with Swype, texting, GPS, email, HD movies, Internet, etc.

    For those of you who are saying that Voice Actions does not work well, have you actually installed it and used it on an Android phone?

    Would it make sense to try a product before you talk about how well it works?

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 08/14/2010 at 03:26 PM.
  13. #73  
    MS voice command did this in 2004 on windows mobile. Thanks for catching up Google.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ...In other words, I still think the UI is clunky comments are going to be relevant, at least until they clean up the UI.
    I use my Pre and my EVO all of the time. To me the test of a clunky User Interface is how hard it is to do the basic things.

    For instance, during the day, I often move between Messages, Internet, Email, Facebook, News, Phone, and Music.

    With webOS, I set up those cards. Then to go from Music back to Messages is:
    > Tap the Center button to minimize Music
    > 6 swipes to go back from Music to sending a Text
    > Tap Messages

    8 taps/swipes is anything but clunky and best case, if the webOS cards were next to each other it's only 3 taps/swipes.

    With Android:
    > Press and hold the Home key
    > tap Messages

    2 taps.

    How would you make that cleaner?

    What have you found that takes more steps to do in Android than in webOS?

    Let me go first. All 30 Android Music apps are absolutely clunky compared to Music Player (Remix).

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 08/14/2010 at 07:00 PM.
  15.    #75  
    Well said. I think one thing people don't realize is Android's UI is what you make it. If you want an iPhone style neverending row of icons, it's there out of the box if you like. If you want a clean, WebOS style backdrop, it's also available out of the box. If you want widgets galore pushing info to you, that's also available. Scrolling dock of frequently launched apps? Deeply integrated voice control from any app? Having the OS do most of the work for you even executing scenarios like the WebOS fantasy of it sending texts to people on a list if you're late to a meeting?

    You can make it as cluttered or clean as you like.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I use my Pre and my EVO all of the time. To me the test of a clunky User Interface is how hard it is to do the basic things.

    For instance, during the day, I often move between Messages, Internet, Email, Facebook, News, Phone, and Music.

    With webOS, I set up those cards. Then to go from Music back to Messages is:
    > Tap the Center button to minimize Music
    > 6 swipes to go back from Music to sending a Text
    > Tap Messages

    8 taps/swipes is anything but clunky and best case, if the webOS cards were next to each other it's only 3 taps/swipes.

    ...
    You are using your device incorrectly. Type me (maybe s, depending on how many programs you have that start with "me"). Tap Messages

    3-4 strokes
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You are using your device incorrectly. Type me (maybe s, depending on how many programs you have that start with "me"). Tap Messages

    3-4 strokes
    Ah - so only twice as many steps as android instead of 3 times ... plus the sliding-out-the-keyboard step for the Pre.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Ah - so only twice as many steps as android instead of 3 times ... plus the sliding-out-the-keyboard step for the Pre.
    I didn't say that, because I don't know how many steps it takes on Android (since I don't use one). One can make the steps taken to do XYZ appear more difficult than they really are, or they can choose a particular feature on one phone that's easier to use it for comparison purposes (for insintace, putting a particular app on the home page).

    As an example, if messages were put on my launcher, it would be a single swipe to get to the messages app. Or, I could treat my first page as the "home page", and patch it to go there each time I hit the launcher button, and the steps would be virtually identical - launcher, messages app.

    But, thats really not the issue, the question posed was will voice commands make the "UI is cliunk" comments irrelevant. The question as posed, posits that there currently are comments about the UI being clunky (I don't see many of comments like that about the Pre).

    My position is that we are visual enough people that no, voice commands no matter how well executed, are not going to make comments about a UI being clunky go away, if the UI is still clunky.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Ah - so only twice as many steps as android instead of 3 times ... plus the sliding-out-the-keyboard step for the Pre.
    Not fair to count the sliding-out-the-keyboard step unless we are talking about having the phone already on and unlocked. From the off position (assuming no passwords/passcodes have been installed) I find it much easier to turn on the Pre using the slide-out-the-keyboard approach. It's easier than using the power button on both the Pre and the EVO. However, it's the same number of steps so it's a wash when counting the number of taps/gestures to do a task.

    Also, the number of steps to "open" the messages app is about the same on both platforms. What I find interesting is that voice command makes sending messages much faster on Android under certain situations. This is because you don't even have to open the message app. Just long press search and say "message Jane Doe Dinner at my place tonight" then tap send.

    When not using voice commands, and let's face it, there are times when voice commands are just not useful, it's about the same depending on your configuration.

    So is the point of the OP a valid on? Yes, under some situations. Like I've said, when I'm driving, I don't even take my phone off of the belt clip to make and receive calls. When I'm navigating with GPS, the phone is in my dash mount. From there, it's a tap, some voice commands followed by another tap and I'm done. Not so easy on webOS...yet. The UI does not matter in this context (except for how the maps look) and there is no "clunkyness" to speak of.

    In the end, voice will not completely replace the UI (I don't think the OP ever stated that it would), but voice can make the UI easier to use if the UI is reduced to just displaying information rather than both display and input. Even in the Star-Trek universe the UI still provides good display because it's quicker to process visual data than it is to "listen to a very long description of what is currently displayed".

    Point: We need both overall and one more than the other in specific situations. And the combination of the two is indeed less clunky (on any platform). Believe it or not, there is some clunk even in stock webOS.
  20. #80  
    It's true. Unless the cards are side-by-side, Universal Search is as fast or faster.

    In this example to open Messages, it is often quicker to open the Pre keyboard and tap "M" - "E" and then tap Messages: 4 slides/taps

    In Android you could also tap Search and tap "M" - "E" and then tap Messages: 4 taps.

    In Android you can also go back to any of your past 8 apps by tapping Home and then the app:

    2 taps.

    But if your point is to send a message in Android, Swype is faster but the really fast way is to press the Search button and say "Text Jason Bourne - Meet you at 5 near the south entrance"

    Still Swype, Speech Recognition, and all the rest are just tools you can choose from.

    Since webOS does have a faster approach than Cards in many cases, let's not pick on webOS Cards.

    Still I ask,
    "What have you found that takes more steps to do in Android than in webOS?"

    - Craig
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 08/15/2010 at 01:27 PM.
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