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  1. #241  
    I am thinking of returning my epic and here's why:

    I miss the touchstone.
    Cards.
    Games.
    Play/pause from notification bar.
    Dr podder, NaNplayer, Badkitty, flashcards, whats for dinner
    simplicity

    Webos needs Super amoled OMG and gorilla glass and SWYPE!

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  2. #242  
    Thought I would join in, I actually got the Hero from a friend to try Android before I jumped in for Evo, but really the Epic.
    I read, researched Android Central, so fragmented by phone its hard to make sense, thus less users), XDA, etc. Took me a couple of days to learn Android, then another day to root it. Perseverance got me Froyo 2.2, just like the new Epic on the Hero.

    I do like it, it has lots of fun apps, free, that are useful and a ton of junk, but actually saw a lot of the useful ones that are also on Pre.

    What I really liked the best was Voice Controls - can talk to Google, text, get directions, voice call. So useful, I really forgot how much I enjoyed and used them. Can't believe Pre doesn't have this because I do not use bluetooth. Love the on screen keyboard, nothing like Virtual in its ease of use.

    But I missed the simplicity of the Pre - cards, alerts, and especially swiping. I'm going back, saving my upgrade for the new Palm. I do not know why I am so loyal except have had every Palm since the Handspring. It feels more comfortable, looks better, and is simpler than the Hero.

    I'm not ready for that large of a beautiful screen, more money, so I'm going back to "just one push away" and wait.
  3. mulcher's Avatar
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    #243  
    I've played angry birds beta on the epic, and its much smoother and crisper looking (thanks to super amoled). There aren't as many top 3d games on android, but with these newer processors and the fact that android is now even outselling iphone, I don't think that will last for long.

    I do miss the touchstone. I'm getting the 'cradle' but it still needs to be 'snapped in' to connect the micro-usb. Obviously not the same thing.

    I have noticed that multi-tasking is better on the pre. I was using the Mediafly TWIT edition and was watching Twit. Then I 'tasked' to do something else and came back. Yes it came back to the same video, but started loading and playing it from the beginning. Totally stupid. Also, when you play an audio file (like a podcast) but not using a pod catcher, again, when it goes to the background, it stops playing. It kind of reminds me of the IOS4 approach to multitasking.

    Any 'tweak' you add, such as an alternative keyboard gui creates a program icon that you can't get rid of without deleting the tweak.

    I do love LauncherPro (dump the Touchwiz before wasting too much time customizing it...trust me) I would love a few widgets on the Pre and a more customizable launcher. For example, imagine a button for SMS, but if you swipe up the button, it SMS's your favorite contact.

    The Palm native email client is better than the Android email (not gmail). Android handles exchange folders worse than the iphone if that's even possible.

    That being said, there are a few alternative email apps (unlike the pre) and Touchdown reminds me of what ChatterEmail would look like if it were still being enhanced. It's awesome to essentially have Outlook on my handheld again including push notification of subfolders!
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #244  
    That Dell Lighting is **** ugly, but that button sliding keyboard is the perfect scenario. I wonder how steady in the hand it is typing on that.
    Mark F Chinsky
  5. #245  
    I think epic 4g is better ..
    But, pre is good too
  6. mulcher's Avatar
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    #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiddlekins View Post
    Landscape keyboards suck.
    I would have to agree portrait is better, but not the super cramped, very little 'throw' pre keyboard. Even the pixi, blows it away due to a nice 'doming' and solid click.

    The problem with landscape on a large phone is there is some serious finger stretching to hit all the keys. The ideal is like that Dell Lighting or A blackberry tourch with a full 'slab' size 4" screen.

    Given the Sprint Pre keyboard and Epic, I would still go for the epic. If the Pre felt like the Pixi, I would lean toward the Pre.
    Last edited by mulcher; 09/07/2010 at 08:52 AM.
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    I also have an Evo which I will keep...such an awesome phone with great apps. Once you have Swype or swiftkey keyboards who needs an physical one?
    This looks like it may be better than both: BlindType - Touch typing the way it should be
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    There will be new Palm phones by holiday season if you can wait that long...and for that matter I imagine there'll be other/better Android phones than the Epic pushed out for the holiday buying season as well.
    And then when you are about to decide, they will announce a new phone coming in March that beat both of those...Just buy when your contract is up, and know you'll get a new phone in a year.. You'll go crazy waiting for the latest.
    Mark F Chinsky
  9. mulcher's Avatar
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    #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by smashclash View Post
    I love my Pre but I'm getting the Epic. Mainly because I dropped my Pre in water a week and a half ago and it isn't working right since. The phone thinks it's always in battery charging mode and drains 5x the rate it used to. I tried a different battery and got the same results.

    To me, an additional $150 (after factoring in deductible for insurance) seems like the Epic would be the smarter move. I love WebOS and will be back to it but with no phone on the immediate horizon, sprints offer to upgrade devices after 1 year, and no guarantee that the next webOS phone will even debut on Sprint or be available on Sprint quickly makes me choose the Epic. By the time a new webOS device comes out and I'm available to for an upgrade it shouldn't be more than a few months. And even if it is I'm sure I can wait it out.
    That's another good point. Rumors point to Palm/HP not making the mistake they did the first time around and going Sprint first. Rumors are it would go Verizon first which might mean you won't see a new Webos on Sprint until March the earliest... Sorry, I'm loyal, but not that loyal.
    Mark F Chinsky
  10. #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    That's another good point. Rumors point to Palm/HP not making the mistake they did the first time around and going Sprint first. Rumors are it would go Verizon first which might mean you won't see a new Webos on Sprint until March the earliest... Sorry, I'm loyal, but not that loyal.
    If they can't execute a multi-carrier launch roughly on par with the Galaxy S line, they should just give up now. No platform aside from iPhone can thrive on an exclusive carrier deals these days. While Verizon may have the dibs on the Droid line, high end Android devices are now available on all four carriers.
  11. mulcher's Avatar
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    #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by Addie_Goodvibes View Post
    that landscape keyboard is hard to type on 1 handed. The keys aren't offset so it makes it more difficult.

    Also the bottom launcher icons can NOT be changed

    more differences later..

    Multi tasking on android is a pain, IMHO No device does it better than pre..

    I do agree with your points. However, get LauncherPro and it goes from being a crappy launcher compared to the Pre to blowing it away.
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by Addie_Goodvibes View Post
    that landscape keyboard is hard to type on 1 handed. The keys aren't offset so it makes it more difficult.

    Also the bottom launcher icons can NOT be changed

    more differences later..

    Multi tasking on android is a pain, IMHO No device does it better than pre..
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Hardware is important, but if you don't have the software to use it, it's kinda pointless. Thats not to say that Android is bad software, but if you like WebOS better, why buy a phone with great hardware and an interface you aren't keen on? Unless you are talking reliability of course.
    The issue is just the opposite. There is a ton of apps you can't get on webos...Docs to go?? Rhapsody??, lots of the 'big' apps are never coming due to what is likely going to be a shrinking, not growing install base.

    This time I think HP should have pre-announced early to prevent defections of Dev's and end users (like me). Tons of WEBOS users were early adopters and all of their 1 year contracts are coming up between June and September.
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Pastor R,

    True multitasking would be separate processors with their own dedicated memory and resources. Unless you have a server farm, you are not really Multitasking. What all the best phones today do is Time Share. Some make you remember to keep everything open. Some do the work for you.

    Multitasking for most users is emailing, texting friends, and chatting on Facebook all at the same time, all while listening to your music. If an email, text, friend request, or calendar alarm comes in, you will be notified and reply without skipping a beat.

    Android Multitasking is so simple that you don't know it is even running. It is so efficient that dormant apps draw almost no power. Android Multitasking is so easy that there is nothing to learn. Just start opening apps.

    With two taps Android can jump between your last 6 apps. When the Epic gets 2.2, it will be 8 last apps like the EVO. But keep your favorite app icons on your home screen and you are two taps away from any of 16 apps.

    You are used to manually having to do your own multitasking. Android does it for you and you don't even know it is there.

    Want to know what is better a deck of cards?

    Not having to use a deck of cards.

    - Craig
    But I found alot of odd behavior.

    I was using the MediaFly Twit edition app (which is on the Pre also) and was watching a video blog. THen I tasked over to check some email and came back. It picked up on the same episode, but it started downloading from scratch and playing at the beginning.

    I found the androidcentral podcast link for download. Like the Pre and iphone, it started playing right away. however, when I tasked away, it stopped playing in the background. I'm sure if I had a dedicated podcast app for it, that wouldn't happen, but the default pre behaviour would have been to keep playing it.
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I can type a lot faster on that cramp keyboard than on the epic keyboard. There is no way I will ever buy another phone with a landscape keyboard. The epic keyboard was a pain to use since everything is so far apart.
    You may forget how slow you were on the pre your first week or two.

    How much time did you spend on the epic keyboard to judge.

    I will say the Droid 2 keyboard is the worst keyboard ever created...And I've been told its much better than the Droid 1
    Mark F Chinsky
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    I have noticed that multi-tasking is better on the pre. I was using the Mediafly TWIT edition and was watching Twit. Then I 'tasked' to do something else and came back. Yes it came back to the same video, but started loading and playing it from the beginning. Totally stupid. Also, when you play an audio file (like a podcast) but not using a pod catcher, again, when it goes to the background, it stops playing. It kind of reminds me of the IOS4 approach to multitasking.
    Hmm, sounds like something is wrong with the App you are using. I run music programs all the time in the background and never have an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    Any 'tweak' you add, such as an alternative keyboard gui creates a program icon that you can't get rid of without deleting the tweak.
    Not sure what you are referring to and this is likely dependent upon how this "tweak" is packaged? I've loaded numerous custom keyboards and various "tweaks" and very few create a program icon.

    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    I do love LauncherPro (dump the Touchwiz before wasting too much time customizing it...trust me) I would love a few widgets on the Pre and a more customizable launcher. For example, imagine a button for SMS, but if you swipe up the button, it SMS's your favorite contact.
    After using the EPIC for about an hour there were certain things I like about it but I much Prefer Sense (even over AOSP/LancherPro/ADW.Launcher). AS someone else mentioned there is more to Sense than just the launcher. Which reminds me, the sms response to a call is also available on the EVO. But these UI layers/launchers are really about personal preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    The Palm native email client is better than the Android email (not gmail). Android handles exchange folders worse than the iphone if that's even possible.
    I do agree. Not sure why so little energy is spent on refining this portion of the OS (for both Palm and Android). Basic things like "mark all as read", "delete all", etc. are not available on the stock experience. Email, Web browsing and Phone calls are the 3 primary functions and seem to lack the refinement/polish you would expect/like.
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Android has a really ugly UI which reminds me of Windows Mobile. I was really surprised just how bad everything looked compared to what I see on the Pre. The OS looks like it runs in 8 or 16 bit color and looks unpolished and inelegant. The way it multitasked and the battery on the phone drained much faster than my Pre.
    I think what you are describing is TouchWiz (not stock Android). It (TouchWiz) is designed to have a bit of a cartoonish look. It is one of the slight criticisms of TouchWiz that many have expressed. There is no way the screen on your Pre looks better than that of the Pre.

    I've heard conflicting reports on the battery life. Based on my experience with the Pre, Hero and EVO, I would think this is not inherent to Android but perhaps some tweaking of it for this particular hardware set.

    I know the first couple of updates for the EVO significantly improved battery life for many.

    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    The keyboard on the phone was almost impossible to use and the software wasn't all that good especially the email client. I will never buy another landscape keyboard phone again. I just didn't feel it was worth it spending $250 on a phone that didn't satisfy my needs. I would rather deal with the slow loading of applications on Webos than throw money away.
    I once was a fan of physical keyboards... But now I find it more of a bother than a convenience. It is still very useful in certain situations but generally I prefer a onscreen keyboard. And I do prefer portrait sliders over landscape. I think (and as others have mentioned) the Torch keyboard might be the sweet spot.
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Yep, I installed Adfree and wifi tethering as well. I have downloaded the current recovery ROM with additional files and instructions to return to stock if needed. Once everything gets stable I will likely try it just so I know how to do it.
    It (Custom ROM support) usually picks up after the source is released. I'm not sure how good Samsung is about this but HTC (w/ the EVO) has been pretty good about it. IT usually trails a couple weeks after the update is released.
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    #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Hmm, sounds like something is wrong with the App you are using. I run music programs all the time in the background and never have an issue.



    Not sure what you are referring to and this is likely dependent upon how this "tweak" is packaged? I've loaded numerous custom keyboards and various "tweaks" and very few create a program icon.



    After using the EPIC for about an hour there were certain things I like about it but I much Prefer Sense (even over AOSP/LancherPro/ADW.Launcher). AS someone else mentioned there is more to Sense than just the launcher. Which reminds me, the sms response to a call is also available on the EVO. But these UI layers/launchers are really about personal preference.



    I do agree. Not sure why so little energy is spent on refining this portion of the OS (for both Palm and Android). Basic things like "mark all as read", "delete all", etc. are not available on the stock experience. Email, Web browsing and Phone calls are the 3 primary functions and seem to lack the refinement/polish you would expect/like.
    The alternative skins to BetterKeyboard show up as app icons. The 'license' to touchdown shows up as a separate icon. If you remove it you aren't licensed. Seems like the marketplace doesn't have an integrated license mechanism like the Pre.

    For a company as big as google to do so few core improvements to such an important OS is wierd. There are many examples of third parties blowing away stock google on email, sms, launcher etc. This is nice, but shouldn't have to be.

    And everybody gushes over 2.2? I don't see many improvements based on what I've read. It seems aptly named as a 'point' release. yet it takes 3 to 6 months for it to make it to many devices. WIth the Pre, it takes a week or two max from point release to automatically showing up on my phone.

    If Google did a better job with the stock UI and apps, we would need these overlays holding back android updates for months.
    Mark F Chinsky
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    #259  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    You know not all apps appeal to everyone. Sure a document editor would be nice but for me it is not a deal breaker. I will probably never use it just like I did when I had a windows mobile device. Rhapsody is $10.00 bucks a month and I am fine with Pandora and all the free music streaming apps.

    I also took back the Epic because of several reasons. Super Amoled isn't as great as many people made it out to be. Text look much clearer on my Palm Pre and so do web images.

    Android has a really ugly UI which reminds me of Windows Mobile. I was really surprised just how bad everything looked compared to what I see on the Pre. The OS looks like it runs in 8 or 16 bit color and looks unpolished and inelegant. The way it multitasked and the battery on the phone drained much faster than my Pre.

    The keyboard on the phone was almost impossible to use and the software wasn't all that good especially the email client. I will never buy another landscape keyboard phone again. I just didn't feel it was worth it spending $250 on a phone that didn't satisfy my needs. I would rather deal with the slow loading of applications on Webos than throw money away.
    If you buy quarterly, my Rhapsody is $15/quarter. I can essentially play 90% of all music, legally, at any time from any place. The killer feature of the iphone/android version is it will 'sync' your playlists and library so local copy is stored. This means it works with or without coverage and doesn't tie up bandwidth (or prevent calls) when using it.

    With MP3's its such a pain keeping things in sync from my ipod, to my PC connected to my home theater, to my various mobile devices etc.

    Rhapsody is really the perfect answer. However their 'radio station' programming isn't as good as aol radio or pandora.
    Mark F Chinsky
  20. #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by mulcher View Post
    The alternative skins to BetterKeyboard show up as app icons. The 'license' to touchdown shows up as a separate icon. If you remove it you aren't licensed. Seems like the marketplace doesn't have an integrated license mechanism like the Pre.

    For a company as big as google to do so few core improvements to such an important OS is wierd. There are many examples of third parties blowing away stock google on email, sms, launcher etc. This is nice, but shouldn't have to be.
    Surely you jest. Have you seen the WebOS core apps? Email isn't even in landscape 15 months after launch and counting.

    The fact is, no one makes huge improvements to core apps after an OS launch until there is a major, major revision of the OS. Why compete against third party developers who are more dedicated and skilled?

    And everybody gushes over 2.2? I don't see many improvements based on what I've read. It seems aptly named as a 'point' release. yet it takes 3 to 6 months for it to make it to many devices. WIth the Pre, it takes a week or two max from point release to automatically showing up on my phone.
    Oh, like 1.4.5?

    If Google did a better job with the stock UI and apps, we would need these overlays holding back android updates for months.
    They don't. The manufacturers and the carriers do. Sprint got Froyo on the HTC Sense-enabled Evo before Motorola and Verizon could get it on the stock original Droid. Sprint and HTC made it a priority. Motorola and Verizon did not. ATT and Verizon Pre Pluses are now currently languishing in this same hell. The only devices exempt from this are iPhones and carrier-agnostic developer units like the Nexus One.

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