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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    and how does this matter to the OEMs ??
    it matters to the oem if consumers refused to be used by google... For google research... And decide not to buy android phones... That's how.
    many users are ignorant of google intentions...
    google ads are in the ap catalog.
    does anyone know where else they pop up and the phone you own and service you pay for? I HATE seeing scrolling ads . I HATE them even more when they display products based on my recent site visits.
    ANNOYING.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    it matters to the oem if consumers refused to be used by google... For google research... And decide not to buy android phones... That's how.
    many users are ignorant of google intentions...
    google ads are in the ap catalog.
    does anyone know where else they pop up and the phone you own and service you pay for? I HATE seeing scrolling ads . I HATE them even more when they display products based on my recent site visits.
    ANNOYING.
    No ads in my Android Market. Matter of fact the only place I see ads is apps, and the developers put those there, just like every other platform. I think you may have a misinterpretation about Googles "evil" plans.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    No ads in my Android Market. Matter of fact the only place I see ads is apps, and the developers put those there, just like every other platform. I think you may have a misinterpretation about Googles "evil" plans.
    ok...
    then whats this all about ?

    Google starts location-aware mobile ads for Android, iPhone | Electronista.
  4. EMPOLLA's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    No.

    You do not understand how an OEM sees things. If they choose to spend some money on a pretty differentiating skin over Android, that's a marketing investment -- a one time expense that may help them sell more widgets than another widget maker without a pretty skin.

    This is a one time cost for software they OWN -- not an ongoing rental fee to M$ every time one of their widgets ships (never mind if it sells).

    The Zeen is a stop gap irrelevancy -- it was clearly in the pipeline prior to the Palm acquisition, HP almost certainly will not produce any more dual Android/webOS devices.
    What is your definition of a widget and in what use are they being used cause I don't know what you are referring to.

    OEMs have to pay developers to maintain their custom UI and software. OEMs have to pay developers to update the software and UI. OEMs have to pay developers to test and make sure their UI and software works with new android updates which causes delays of the update. OEMs have to pay developers to fix any problems that occurs after the android update because of their custom UI and software.

    Because of all that, updates are in the hands of each OEM when it comes to android. I don't like that.

    WP7 updates will be controlled by MS and MS only with the benefit of choosing your own hardware. I like that.

    It's an ongoing process and cost that will never end as long as android keeps updating.

    Regardless of who OEMs choose android or WP7 they will pay. They have to pay to stay in the game.

    Software is never a onetime cost unless you choose to give up on it.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    I'm guessing for apps that have ads in it, it will find ads based on your location. Hope I didn't read it wrong... But it's not on my Samsung Moment, or anybody else android phone that I know. So no worries.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I'm guessing for apps that have ads in it, it will find ads based on your location. Hope I didn't read it wrong... But it's not on my Samsung Moment, or anybody else android phone that I know. So no worries.
    No ads in my Android Market. Matter of fact the only place I see ads is apps, and the developers put those there, just like every other platform. I think you may have a misinterpretation about Googles "evil" plans.
    ok.. did you see these? thats a map... with ads on it.



    using GPS location...
    That does not look like an app... does it?
    "Google today started running its first location-sensitive mobile ads. Apps and websites tailored to Android and iOS devices can now use the location features, such as GPS or Wi-Fi triangulation, to trigger ads in a given area."
    today.. was july 29th 2010.

    Whats to stop google from slowly including more ads all over your android experience?
    once their dominance in the market place is at a level they are satisified with.. they can up the ads... since your locked into your phones... good luck escaping it.

    Live free or die!
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    What is your definition of a widget and in what use are they being used cause I don't know what you are referring to...
    a widget is a generic object.

    Its what you choose among, when you go to WalMart to get a bar of soap.

    For manufacturers, it is the lowest rung capitalist hell -- the place no company wants to find itself consigned to.

    You the end user are not the primary customer of this object -- Walmart is. To you and Walmart both, bars of soap are interchangeable as long as they clean.

    If Walmart (and this is no exaggeration) can hammer one manufacturer to supply its soap for 1/4 cent less than their incumbent supplier, they will flip soap sources in half a heart beat.

    No OEM wants to be a soap supplier to Verizon -- and if they provide WP7 widgets, thats exactly what they'll be.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/06/2010 at 04:34 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    ok.. did you see these? thats a map... with ads on it.



    using GPS location...
    That does not look like an app... does it?
    "Google today started running its first location-sensitive mobile ads. Apps and websites tailored to Android and iOS devices can now use the location features, such as GPS or Wi-Fi triangulation, to trigger ads in a given area."
    today.. was july 29th 2010.

    Whats to stop google from slowly including more ads all over your android experience?
    once their dominance in the market place is at a level they are satisified with.. they can up the ads... since your locked into your phones... good luck escaping it.

    Live free or die!
    You realize AdMob can and does run in WebOS apps too, right?
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You realize AdMob can and does run in WebOS apps too, right?
    NOOOOO!
    we must put a stop to this.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    ok.. did you see these? thats a map... with ads on it.



    using GPS location...
    That does not look like an app... does it?
    "Google today started running its first location-sensitive mobile ads. Apps and websites tailored to Android and iOS devices can now use the location features, such as GPS or Wi-Fi triangulation, to trigger ads in a given area."
    today.. was july 29th 2010.

    Whats to stop google from slowly including more ads all over your android experience?
    once their dominance in the market place is at a level they are satisified with.. they can up the ads... since your locked into your phones... good luck escaping it.

    Live free or die!
    I dont see any ads on my maps. And I don't know what that other app is. Your really blowing this way out of proportion.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I dont see any ads on my maps. And I don't know what that other app is. Your really blowing this way out of proportion.
    its ok... you have already been infected. You have no idea what awaits you sir kool kid. slowly.... you will be enslaved. you will be made to buy things you never wanted... while just using any feature on your phone.
    unfortunately for you... its too late. you are trapped.

    But the millions of others.. it is not too late.
    FREEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMM!
  12. EMPOLLA's Avatar
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    #92  
    yeah okay...

    you started using the word "widget" after you quoted me earlier in the thread where i said widget.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    You mean those same OEMs that spend their money and hire developers to write and maintain their own UI. Spend money to create mail, text, and widgets apps; they create their own keyboards. All so their phone can be a little different from the other manufactures when most people go back to stock android anyway.
    I was talking about android widgets like the clocks, stock tickers, music controls, mail, weather viewers, and anything else you can put on your home screen in android. widgets.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    You state proudly that M$ will not allow OEMs to customized UIs -- as though OEMs are going to be happy consigned to being dumb widget makers.

    Its why M$ is likely doomed in tablets and ultimately phones -- because being a widget maker is not a profitable niche -- especially when the OS designer dictates the common minimum hardware spec and the UI interface -- which makes it even harder to differentiate your widget.

    Presume if you will that 5-10 OEMs declare their intent to buy WP7 and build WP7 widgets.
    Dumb widget makers? I was only talking about them making widgets to go along with their UI. Like that big clock HTC has is just a widget. Widgets and anyone who makes them are not dumb for doing so, they're helpful.

    It seems like your talking about widgets being the UI. They are part of the UI but that's it, only part of it. Marketing widgets are not something I've seen done so why would differentiating their widgets be a big priority. Marketing their UI is the most important especially when it comes to stock lego android which everyone goes back to anyway.

    WP7 doesn't have widgets. It can't be done. It won't happen. It's not made to.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    but the oems must still market their own widgets -- while competing against each other for what deals the carriers will allow them. Fighting for carrier deals is the first OEM battle -- and its every bit as hard as fighting for retail buyers.

    widget makers are pawns -- they know this -- leverage is with the carriers unless you produce a "hero" device like Apple w/AT&T
    There goes that marketing of the widgets again.

    A widget is just something you put on one of the android home screens, what are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    a widget is a generic object.

    Its what you choose among, when you go to WalMart to get a bar of soap.

    For manufacturers, it is the lowest rung capitalist hell -- the place no company what to find itself consigned to.

    You the end user are not the primary customer of this object -- Walmart is. To you and Walmart both, bars of soap are interchangeable as long as they clean.

    If Walmart (and this is no exaggeration) can hammer one manufacturer to supply its soap for 1/4 cent less than their incumbent supplier, they will flip soap sources in half a heart beat.

    No OEM wants to be a soap supplier to Verizon -- and if they provide WP7 widgets, thats exactly what they'll be.
    Maybe there is some other kind of widget you are talking about but whatever you're talking about I don't see how it relates to the simple widgets that are on android home screens or to WP7.

    No one can provide WP7 with widgets. In WP7 world, community, product, software, ecosystem, code, or whatever they don't exist.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    ...

    I was talking about android widgets like the clocks, stock tickers, music controls, mail, weather viewers, and anything else you can put on your home screen in android. widgets...
    I thought I was fairly explicit in what I meant. In rereading my posts its hard to see how what I intended was misunderstood. But in fairness, the use of that specific term by me in a context where it could be misconstrued to be in reference to Android, was unnecessarily ambiguous.

    As such I concede that the use of that specific word, "widget", was mistaken.

    To clarify -- every time I used that word, it was in reference to OEMs making any device that had no proprietary value specific to the OEM. I, for example, used that term when I was slamming WP7. I talked about how OEMs would be unable to differentiate their UI, limited in their hardware improvisation, and forced to compete solely on the basis of price. That they, as a result, would be reduced to being nothing more than widget makers. Widget makers relegated to using bigger batteries, more memory, and cup holders to differentiate themselves.

    Its difficult for me to see how the use of "widget" in that context was misconstrued as a reference to Android -- but if you say it was, then I unnecessarily contributed to your misunderstanding. For that I am sorry.

    For the record, and to clear up any retrospective confusion that may remain -- at NO point have I used the word "widget" as anything other than to mean "generic gizmo". I have never intended ANY reference to Android specific features, software, interface, or UI. My ONLY use of that term, EVER -- has been to discuss how OEMs do not want to be producers of generic gadgets.

    The description that follows constitutes the ONLY meaning I have ever intended for that term:


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post


    a widget is a generic object.

    Its what you choose among, when you go to WalMart to get a bar of soap.

    For manufacturers, it is the lowest rung capitalist hell -- the place no company wants to find itself consigned to.

    You the end user are not the primary customer of this object -- Walmart is. To you and Walmart both, bars of soap are interchangeable as long as they clean.

    If Walmart (and this is no exaggeration) can hammer one manufacturer to supply its soap for 1/4 cent less than their incumbent supplier, they will flip soap sources in half a heart beat.

    No OEM wants to be a soap supplier to Verizon -- and if they provide WP7 widgets, thats exactly what they'll be.

    in discussing M$:


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post


    ...As you've said, OEMs tweak the Android UI out of choice, not necessity -- to differentiate themselves from the other Android clients. Many users prefer stock Android -- and they usually have that option.

    You state proudly that M$ will not allow OEMs to customized UIs -- as though OEMs are going to be happy consigned to being dumb widget makers.

    Perhaps you've not heard of the Apple iPhone -- its a device that every OEM across the planet envies, and would eagerly trade their favorite children and their left lung to have. Its a device whose appeal is in large part because of the seamless design and integration of both the hardware and UI.

    Its one of the reasons HP dropped a Billion and change on Palm.

    Its why M$ is likely doomed in tablets and ultimately phones -- because being a widget maker is not a profitable niche -- especially when the OS designer dictates the common minimum hardware spec and the UI interface -- which makes it even harder to differentiate your widget.

    Presume if you will that 5-10 OEMs declare their intent to buy WP7 and build WP7 widgets.

    This is a universe of users that is currently at -- sorry let me re-enter the calculations on my Excel spreadsheet -- jeez, that can't be right .... No, I guess it is -- there are ZERO WP7 users at present.

    So we have 10 OEMs producing near identical platforms -- using IDENTICAL UIs --how are they going to compete -- features ????

    I think the answer you're looking for is: PRICE. They will have to compete on PRICE.

    If I'm an OEM, I'd rather not hear that I have to compete in a narrow limited market against a near identical family of products -- while also banging heads with Android, iOS, a possibly revived RIM, and maybe, maybe, webOS. When 5-10 OEMs need to scratch out a part of a tiny market, OEMs are likely to soon engage in a price war, a war in which they will all lose...

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    hardware is a fact of life that manufacturers deal with -- they either own their own factories, or like Apple, outsource to specialists like Foxconn.

    Apple squeezes Foxconn and all its suppliers hard on pricing -- which is why Apple makes nearly $200 per phone, and Foxconn workers kill themselves

    The thing that the $20-30 that M$ gives you back if you're an oem, is marketing of the OS and the ecosystem

    but the oems must still market their own widgets -- while competing against each other for what deals the carriers will allow them. Fighting for carrier deals is the first OEM battle -- and its every bit as hard as fighting for retail buyers.

    widget makers are pawns -- they know this -- leverage is with the carriers unless you produce a "hero" device like Apple w/AT&T
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/06/2010 at 04:12 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #94  
    Windows Phone Series 7 launch games shown:
    Xbox Live launch titles for Windows Phone 7 finally revealed, we've got the full preview -- Engadget


    Video included in that link. They have Rocket Riot. That makes me happy.
  15. mapenn's Avatar
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    #95  
    would I switch to Windows Mobile? Dunno. Maybe. Why are we so attached to Palm? (me included?). When my contract runs out, I'll look to see who has the best tool for the money. I've used Palm for years, but if they don't deliver a product that...
    -- is voice activated
    -- can edit Word Docs
    -- has the email capabilities of our beloved ChatterEmail
    -- can last 8 hours without a charge
    -- can survive a drop on the ground
    -- can keep up with my gestures without over-clocking.
    -- has an app with the capabilities of Agendus

    ...then, absolutely I'll stick with Palm. If not, then time to move on. I tend to think HPalm will deliver....
  16. #96  
    this is a biggy! There gunna have alot of games...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Windows Phone Series 7 launch games shown:
    [url= Live launch titles for Windows Phone 7 finally revealed, we've got the full preview -- Engadget[/url]


    Video included in that link. They have Rocket Riot. That makes me happy.
  17. EMPOLLA's Avatar
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Windows Phone Series 7 launch games shown:
    Xbox Live launch titles for Windows Phone 7 finally revealed, we've got the full preview -- Engadget


    Video included in that link. They have Rocket Riot. That makes me happy.
    And so it has begun.

    It was pretty obvious though.

    I'll be in line.
  18. #98  
    I'll be in the line too maybe...
  19. #99  
    I never left WM6
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    For the record, and to clear up any retrospective confusion that may remain -- at NO point have I used the word "widget" as anything other than to mean "generic gizmo". I have never intended ANY reference to Android specific features, software, interface, or UI.

    How funny...

    saying; 'Some ***** running a widget machine all day' is now completely misconstrued.
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