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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Last I checked M$ identifies itself as a software company. Why aren't they developing Apps for the iPhone, for Android -- they profitably develop programs for Apple ??
    Microsoft does develop for the iPhone.
  2. #62  
    WP7 will already be left in the dust by the time it arrives.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Yeah, but MS has already stated they have contextual menu for obvious copy and paste users (links, phone numbers, address) to forward via email/text and such.

    Honestly, i RARELY copy and paste from the Pre browser...95% of my C&P is phone numbers, urls and text messages.

    If WM7 indeed has a contextual menu for all those things i doubt it will be a serious issue...just a negative tech websites will pick out.
    Awesome. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. I totally agree.
    THIS IS HOW WE HANDLE BUSINESS
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Yeah, but MS has already stated they have contextual menu for obvious copy and paste users (links, phone numbers, address) to forward via email/text and such.

    Honestly, i RARELY copy and paste from the Pre browser...95% of my C&P is phone numbers, urls and text messages.

    If WM7 indeed has a contextual menu for all those things i doubt it will be a serious issue...just a negative tech websites will pick out.
    its being pitched as an Enterprise OS -- one in which Office is a featured App

    How often do all of you use cut, copy, and paste in document editing ???

    Perhaps never -- I wish BARYE's writing was so flawless ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Microsoft does develop for the iPhone.
    I know the bing stuff -- much else ??

    (ie smaller Apps)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #66  
    love my zune hd and zune account

    palm has to truly blow me away or im skipping ship to android or winmo7
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
  7. #67  
    oh yeah kool im gonna jump !
    yeah jump my **** lol ha ha . webOS will rule the world !!
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    its being pitched as an Enterprise OS -- one in which Office is a featured App

    How often do all of you use cut, copy, and paste in document editing ???

    Perhaps never -- I wish BARYE's writing was so flawless ...
    Where did you hear that? Windows Phone 7 has never been targeted for business...they are keeping Windows 6.5 around for that job.

    Microsoft: “No Windows Phone 7 upgrade for Windows Mobile 6.x devices”

    For its part, Microsoft says it will not abandon the current Windows Mobile 6.x platform once Windows Phone 7 arrives. The OS will be rebranded as Windows Phone Classic and retained for budget-minded smartphone buyers as well as business customers with 6.x-based apps.

    We think there are people who will want 6.5, and the 6.x platform has a lot of enterprise and line of business apps Kwan says.

    Microsoft will update Windows Mobile 6.5 to 6.5.3 before the Windows Phone Classic rebadging takes place, and Kwan says this will enhance the experience for 6.5 users.

    A lot of 6.5 applications have been built very much from the old paradigm of the stylus. Those legacy apps will be a lot more compatible on 6.5.3 because we have magnifier technology which lets you use your finger for navigating, even though it has a much bigger surface area.
    Now i'm sure this can change later on, but windows 6.5 is still aimed at businesses while Windows 7 is to consumers.

    And no, i've never fully edited documents in my phone....never have had to do something like that that urgently that i wouldn't be near a computer to do it faster and more efficient.
  9. #69  
    brain mantis is right, wimo6.5 is designated for enterprise. phone7 is consumer targeted.

    i have had, and would go back to wimo6.5 over going to any other platform.

    marketing is an amazing thing, hell what is it again, 89% pc's use xp? there is a reason for that. if it suits the needs, its works. NEW and COOL (and 1.0, basically beta) is not justifiable when OTHER people are the ones paying the bills and merely want a profitable, stable company.

    when 2.0 comes out for webOS, hp will lay down some incentives for enterprise to compete with winmo6.5. phone7 is not even a discussion. developers i have talked to think its the next vista lol
    Palm prē-ist.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Where did you hear that? Windows Phone 7 has never been targeted for business...they are keeping Windows 6.5 around for that job.

    Microsoft: “No Windows Phone 7 upgrade for Windows Mobile 6.x devices�



    Now i'm sure this can change later on, but windows 6.5 is still aimed at businesses while Windows 7 is to consumers.

    And no, i've never fully edited documents in my phone....never have had to do something like that that urgently that i wouldn't be near a computer to do it faster and more efficient.
    good come backs, but I interpret that statement as typical marketing blah blah blah.

    Ya many businesses (alot, really) continue to "downgrade" to XP -- because of compatibility with existing applications, because it would involve wasted training of current staff -- but as a practical reality, M$ promotes one PC OS: Windows 7.

    If they could contrive it, M$ would love to move all IE 5, 6, 7 users to their ie 8, all old Windows users to 7 -- it would drastically lessen their support headaches and costs.

    6.5 will be "offered" but not encouraged, not promoted, hardly supported after the planned update.

    As a practical reality, M$ will promote one phone OS: WP7 -- and it will be pitched hard to the enterprise since that's M$ base market. Yes they very much want consumers, they want to be popular -- but do you really believe that part of their pitch to businesses will not include an aggressive sell regarding Exchange and Office integration ??

    What Apple's taught everyone is that to be successful even with businesses, your phone had to also first be consumer friendly. Users are going to lobby IT depts. for the devices they like. This is how iPhones have become introduced to the enterprise -- this is why RIM is trying to transform itself, this is why M$ is trying to transform itself.

    If users hate your UI and your ecosystem -- even IT depts will eventually abandon you.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/04/2010 at 04:44 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    many of your questions are eloquently answered by you -- if only inadvertently.

    As you've said, OEMs tweak the Android UI out of choice, not necessity -- to differentiate themselves from the other Android clients. Many users prefer stock Android -- and they usually have that option.

    You state proudly that M$ will not allow OEMs to customized UIs -- as though OEMs are going to be happy consigned to being dumb widget makers.

    Perhaps you've not heard of the Apple iPhone -- its a device that every OEM across the planet envies, and would eagerly trade their favorite children and their left lung to have. Its a device whose appeal is in large part because of the seamless design and integration of both the hardware and UI.

    Its one of the reasons HP dropped a Billion and change on Palm.

    Its why M$ is likely doomed in tablets and ultimately phones -- because being a widget maker is not a profitable niche -- especially when the OS designer dictates the common minimum hardware spec and the UI interface -- which makes it even harder to differentiate your widget.

    Presume if you will that 5-10 OEMs declare their intent to buy WP7 and build WP7 widgets.

    This is a universe of users that is currently at -- sorry let me re-enter the calculations on my Excel spreadsheet -- jeez, that can't be right .... No, I guess it is -- there are ZERO WP7 users at present.

    So we have 10 OEMs producing near identical platforms -- using IDENTICAL UIs --how are they going to compete -- features ????

    I think the answer you're looking for is: PRICE. They will have to compete on PRICE.

    If I'm an OEM, I'd rather not hear that I have to compete in a narrow limited market against a near identical family of products -- while also banging heads with Android, iOS, a possibly revived RIM, and maybe, maybe, webOS. When 5-10 OEMs need to scratch out a part of a tiny market, OEMs are likely to soon engage in a price war, a war in which they will all lose.

    I look forward to hearing from the WP7 pioneers, er orphans, a year or so from now...



    Its not just little old BARYE writing about how OEMs are starved for profits, how they're desperate to cut costs where ever they can.

    This mantra can't be repeated often enough: Android is a very good OS -- and its FREE.

    Any discussion of mobile OSes that does not include those 9 magic words is, at best, ill informed.

    OEMs are not paying the costs involved in developing, refining, expanding, and marketing this OS. Google is doing so -- happily.

    WebOS, WP7, RIM, iOS all must contend with that fact.

    Aside from Apple, how do the pretenders compete with Android -- a very good OS -- thats FREE ???



    Bitter smartphone war seen pinching vendor margins

    Tarmo Virki, Reuters European technology correspondent

    HELSINKI (Reuters) - An increasingly heated battle in the global smartphone market is set to weigh on handset vendors' profit margins for the rest of the year...

    All top cellphone vendors including Nokia, Samsung Electronics and Research in Motion are rolling out new smartphone models for the holiday sales-fueled fourth quarter.

    "The smartphone market is becoming heavily congested as a host of players seek to boost margins. The reality in the second half is set to be very different," said analyst Geoff Blaber from British consultancy CCS Insight.

    "The market will swell in volume but price erosion will inevitably result in casualties as value is captured by a minority rather than the majority," Blaber said.

    Research firm Strategy Analytics said the ramp-up in supply will drive higher volumes, but this will pressure margins as vendors fight to outsmart rivals.

    The world's three largest cellphone makers -- Nokia, Samsung and LG Electronics -- all saw smartphone rivalry hitting their profit margins in the April-June quarter.

    "Each is in the midst of refreshing its respective product portfolio, with greater emphasis on smartphones during the second half of this year,"...

    Samsung on Friday warned of weaker margins and profit growth in the second half after reporting telecom unit margins slumped to 7.2 percent as it boosted marketing spending in the absence of a strong smartphone model.

    Samsung is making a big bet on its top model Galaxy S, which went on sale last month, while Nokia is counting on its upcoming N8 model to win a larger share of the high-end market...

    LG's phone unit made a loss last quarter and had a negative margin of 3.5 percent. It has forecast another loss for the business in the current quarter...
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/05/2010 at 04:57 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #72  
    is android free?

    freedom...
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    is android free?

    freedom...
    to the OEMs certainly ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    to the OEMs certainly ...
    No its not. They have to spend time cooking up a UI to lay on top of android.

    HTC's Sense wasn't free. It cost them a penny or two.

    Likewise, HP got webOS for its UI to place on top of android. HP got some IP in the process.

    HP's first webOS skinned Android device is the Zeen.
    Last edited by cardfan; 08/05/2010 at 06:06 PM.
  15. #75  
    FREEEEDOMMMM!!!!!!

    now gogle can record every move you make.... Evry txt, time spent browsing.... Everything you do!!!!!
    then cfaft ads targeting you while you browse your app catalog.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    No its not. They have to spend time cooking up a UI to lay on top of android.

    HTC's Sense wasn't free. It cost them a penny or two.

    Likewise, HP got webOS for its UI to place on top of android. HP got some IP in the process.

    HP's first webOS skinned Android device is the Zeen.


    No.

    You do not understand how an OEM sees things. If they choose to spend some money on a pretty differentiating skin over Android, that's a marketing investment -- a one time expense that may help them sell more widgets than another widget maker without a pretty skin.

    This is a one time cost for software they OWN -- not an ongoing rental fee to M$ every time one of their widgets ships (never mind if it sells).

    The Zeen is a stop gap irrelevancy -- it was clearly in the pipeline prior to the Palm acquisition, HP almost certainly will not produce any more dual Android/webOS devices.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    FREEEEDOMMMM!!!!!!

    now gogle can record every move you make.... Evry txt, time spent browsing.... Everything you do!!!!!
    then cfaft ads targeting you while you browse your app catalog.

    and how does this matter to the OEMs ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    and how does this matter to the OEMs ??
    Don't worry about him, he has just been everywhere lately.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    No.

    You do not understand how an OEM sees things. If they choose to spend some money on a pretty differentiating skin over Android, that's a marketing investment -- a one time expense that may help them sell more widgets than another widget maker without a pretty skin.

    This is a one time cost for software they OWN -- not an ongoing rental fee to M$ every time one of their widgets ships (never mind if it sells).

    The Zeen is a stop gap irrelevancy -- it was clearly in the pipeline prior to the Palm acquisition, HP almost certainly will not produce any more dual Android/webOS devices.
    So one is a variable cost, the other is a fixed cost. Both are ongoing.

    How is Sense for example, a ONE time cost? HTC has to constantly update it.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    So one is a variable cost, the other is a fixed cost. Both are ongoing.

    How is Sense for example, a ONE time cost? HTC has to constantly update it.
    One I control completely -- the other completely controls me
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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