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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I'm dumping my beloved KIN for winPho7 asap. Palm hasn't done anything since the acquisition, and I'm done waiting...

    oh, wait... I'm very happy with my Pre, and I'm sure there will be many advances from HPalm by the time my contract is up...

    Seriously, of all the choices out there, how could anyone seriously be thinking about winPho7?
    hold the phone...you bought a kin?

    This is even better than the "you bought an N-Gage, didn't you" meme.

    that being said, WP7 looks pretty promising for something that came out of Microsoft and is succeeding WinMo 6.5. It seems even more "revolutionary" (rather than evolutionary) a break from the past than BBOS 6 for RIM, or Meego for Nokia.

    but I think I'll stick with webOS, IF HPalm announces/releases something before 2010 is over.
  2. #42  
    I have a coworker who says he is getting a WindowsPhone7 device because of XBox Live. But he is always making jealous comments of the things I can do with my Pre.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    You mean those same OEMs that spend their money and hire developers to write and maintain their own UI. Spend money to create mail, text, and widgets apps; they create their own keyboards. All so their phone can be a little different from the other manufactures when most people go back to stock android anyway.

    Money is being spent regardless. Since MS (can't believe you actually think about and take the time to type it M$) takes that freedom away to change the UI OEMs don't have to worry about money being spent on making their own software. The OEMs need to focus on the most important thing for them, hardware, anything else is a distraction.

    There is a plus. All software updates will happen at the same time since MS controls it. Something not found on android. (HTC) Small updates over the air, big ones through zune desktop software.
    many of your questions are eloquently answered by you -- if only inadvertently.

    As you've said, OEMs tweak the Android UI out of choice, not necessity -- to differentiate themselves from the other Android clients. Many users prefer stock Android -- and they usually have that option.

    You state proudly that M$ will not allow OEMs to customized UIs -- as though OEMs are going to be happy consigned to being dumb widget makers.

    Perhaps you've not heard of the Apple iPhone -- its a device that every OEM across the planet envies, and would eagerly trade their favorite children and their left lung to have. Its a device whose appeal is in large part because of the seamless design and integration of both the hardware and UI.

    Its one of the reasons HP dropped a Billion and change on Palm.

    Its why M$ is likely doomed in tablets and ultimately phones -- because being a widget maker is not a profitable niche -- especially when the OS designer dictates the common minimum hardware spec and the UI interface -- which makes it even harder to differentiate your widget.

    Presume if you will that 5-10 OEMs declare their intent to buy WP7 and build WP7 widgets.

    This is a universe of users that is currently at -- sorry let me re-enter the calculations on my Excel spreadsheet -- jeez, that can't be right .... No, I guess it is -- there are ZERO WP7 users at present.

    So we have 10 OEMs producing near identical platforms -- using IDENTICAL UIs --how are they going to compete -- features ????

    I think the answer you're looking for is: PRICE. They will have to compete on PRICE.

    If I'm an OEM, I'd rather not hear that I have to compete in a narrow limited market against a near identical family of products -- while also banging heads with Android, iOS, a possibly revived RIM, and maybe, maybe, webOS. When 5-10 OEMs need to scratch out a part of a tiny market, OEMs are likely to soon engage in a price war, a war in which they will all lose.

    I look forward to hearing from the WP7 pioneers, er orphans, a year or so from now.

    BTW -- MS is the internationally recognized contraction used for Multiple Sclerosis -- an incurable degenerative neurological disease.

    Personally I find it overly harsh to ascribe these brain wasting characteristics to Microsoft. It is just not in BARYE's too too gentle nature to be so unkind.
    As such I will continue to use the much less inflammatory M$ as the descriptive contraction of choice.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/02/2010 at 04:17 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Unlike HPalm, Apple, or RIM -- M$ does not produce its own hardware. It must convince OEMs to add $20-30 to their costs for an OS -- when they could instead use an Android 3 for free.
    To be accurate, in another way HPalm, Apple outsource their phone manufacturing, so the end user still has to pick up the tab for that. RIM manufactures many of its models itself, but still outsources a few of them.
  5. #45  
    My guess is taht Palm will have WebOS 2.0 out in time for the holidays. And since they listen to the community like they do, to make their job easier...they incorporated all the patch and tweak ideas that this community has been doing for over a year now. Plus or minus a few of course as some are just redundant etc and more a preference of color etc then actual functionality. More open API's etc. WebOS 2.0 should be on par with a IPhone 3GS with addition of multitasking etc.


    Nokia (red phone) --> Denso TouchPoint TP2200 --> Samsung SPH-N400 --> (Palm VII) --> Sanyo 5150 --> Palm Treo 650 --> Palm Pre --> Sprint FrankenPre 2 --> (HP TouchPad)/(HP Pre 3 - Wifi) --> Galaxy Nexus (with TS mod and hopes of Open webOS!)
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Windows Phone 7 coming to Europe in October, US in November, according to Microsoft COO (video) -- Engadget

    OK, so it looks like HP has September to release their next hardware before the holiday season, otherwise it will be overshadowed by all those brand new Windows Phones.
    yes likely true -- they would want to be out no later than September, October if they want holiday sales

    thats a month from now -- where are the quiet previews, the leaked rumours of HP's plans ?

    Aside from here, HP needs to build excitement and anticipation for a renewed webOS, a revamped product offering

    unless you're apple, that usually means a month or so of preliminary strategic previews to prime the market for your future release

    Has there been news like that yet ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    To be accurate, in another way HPalm, Apple outsource their phone manufacturing, so the end user still has to pick up the tab for that. RIM manufactures many of its models itself, but still outsources a few of them.
    hardware is a fact of life that manufacturers deal with -- they either own their own factories, or like Apple, outsource to specialists like Foxconn.

    Apple squeezes Foxconn and all its suppliers hard on pricing -- which is why Apple makes nearly $200 per phone, and Foxconn workers kill themselves

    The thing that the $20-30 that M$ gives you back if you're an oem, is marketing of the OS and the ecosystem

    but the oems must still market their own widgets -- while competing against each other for what deals the carriers will allow them. Fighting for carrier deals is the first OEM battle -- and its every bit as hard as fighting for retail buyers.

    widget makers are pawns -- they know this -- leverage is with the carriers unless you produce a "hero" device like Apple w/AT&T
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #48  
    I love the Windows Phone 7 UI. I absolutely adore it. It's just so different than the rounded corners and glossy effects of Apple/Android/webOS. I understand that it's not to everybody's taste, and that's fine, but it is definitely compatible with mine.
    THIS IS HOW WE HANDLE BUSINESS
  9. #49  
    I’m likely switching out. Really love WebOS, but the hardware’s just not up to the potential of the OS as most of the units in our company have been swapped out several times. We’re looking into developing a few applications and focusing on iOS, BBOS, and the new WinMo OS and their audiences - we can’t justify putting the effort into the WebOS store and expect to even break even. And, I can’t believe there’s no voice dialing option on the WebOS yet, but that’s just me talking. Maybe HP will put out something compelling in a year or two?
  10. #50  
    windows 7 looks great and i love zune, but webos can multi-task!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by juavez707 View Post
    windows 7 looks great and i love zune, but webos can multi-task!
    Garnet can cut and paste -- can WP7 ???
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #52  
    Windows mobile devices have never been much of a draw for me, but I have to say that the WP 7 at least looks like it could be interesting. Palm used to be the pretty much the go-to device for me when I was looking for something new, but it's not such a slam-dunk anymore...

    I would have to say I would lean toward my next phone being an HP/Palm device *IF* webOS 2.0 comes out with some good updates and fairly problem free... and they release *compelling* hardware. Not just 'ok' or 'good'. At this point, I feel the next palm phone needs to be fairly impressive.

    Otherwise, yeah, I would probably take a hard look at everything else out at the time I decide to upgrade (probably a few months), including WP7.
  13. #53  
    I can't believe I am seeing lack of apps for webOS as a negative and it not even mentioned about WP7. I don't care how big a company is, it will take time to build that app store. Since MS will most likely not give up on WP7 even if it's a failure the first year, I am guessing year 2 will be the time to jump ship to the WP7 platform.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I can't believe I am seeing lack of apps for webOS as a negative and it not even mentioned about WP7. I don't care how big a company is, it will take time to build that app store. Since MS will most likely not give up on WP7 even if it's a failure the first year, I am guessing year 2 will be the time to jump ship to the WP7 platform.
    I don't expect that M$ will formally "give up" on WP7. Its too important for its enterprise story.

    What I predict is that first its OEMs will give up on WP7 -- too many glitches, too few buyers, too much competition.

    M$ and the OEMs will then blame each other for the mediocre hardware, the unfinished incomplete OS, the lack of App support, the blah blah blah ...

    M$ will then come back, reintroduce "WP8" -- this time with its own hardware, its own customized ARM processor, and more of its own Apps.

    The dozen or so WP7 adoptees ??

    Orphans ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. EMPOLLA's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I can't believe I am seeing lack of apps for webOS as a negative and it not even mentioned about WP7. I don't care how big a company is, it will take time to build that app store. Since MS will most likely not give up on WP7 even if it's a failure the first year, I am guessing year 2 will be the time to jump ship to the WP7 platform.
    I see WP7 apps passing webos app in the first month or two. MS said over 100,000 people downloaded their WP7 developer tools. If only 10% of those who downloaded put out an app, well you can do the math.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I don't expect that M$ will formally "give up" on WP7. Its too important for its enterprise story.

    What I predict is that first its OEMs will give up on WP7 -- too many glitches, too few buyers, too much competition.

    M$ and the OEMs will then blame each other for the mediocre hardware, the unfinished incomplete OS, the lack of App support, the blah blah blah ...

    M$ will then come back, reintroduce "WP8" -- this time with its own hardware, its own customized ARM processor, and more of its own Apps.

    The dozen or so WP7 adoptees ??

    Orphans ...
    I see none of that happening. Since OEMs can't differentiate themselves by skins only by hubs, hardware manufactures have no choice but to put out the best or it will be a waste of time for them.

    Of the 3000 WP7 devices out their right now on hardware that's not going to be released, there have been no reports of glitches.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    I see WP7 apps passing webos app in the first month or two. MS said over 100,000 people downloaded their WP7 developer tools. If only 10% of those who downloaded put out an app, well you can do the math.



    I see none of that happening. Since OEMs can't differentiate themselves by skins only by hubs, hardware manufactures have no choice but to put out the best or it will be a waste of time for them.

    Of the 3000 WP7 devices out their right now on hardware that's not going to be released, there have been no reports of glitches.
    Out of those, most are probably MS employees who have been challenged by Balmer to create apps in their spare time.

    Sounds similar to HP asking their 47,000 engineers to make webOS apps. I don't think much will come from either.

    I'm not saying that WP7 won't launch with a decent app catalog, but I don't think it will be close to the 4,000 apps available for webOS today.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  17. EMPOLLA's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    Out of those, most are probably MS employees who have been challenged by Balmer to create apps in their spare time.

    Sounds similar to HP asking their 47,000 engineers to make webOS apps. I don't think much will come from either.

    I'm not saying that WP7 won't launch with a decent app catalog, but I don't think it will be close to the 4,000 apps available for webOS today.
    I admit I am being optimistic about it but that's just the way I see it.

    A 1000 of those 3000 are to developers around the world whom MS thought worthy of owning a developer unit. The other 2000 who knows, MS employees makes the most sense.

    You have to admit though, working at MS, owning and developing apps for the apple platform is frowned upon plus you need a mac and it's a different language. I imagine the same goes for the android platform. Since MS have announced that all their employees (all 90,000) will get a WP7 device when it launches there is going to be a lot of excitement and incentive for them to develop apps for the WP7 platform. They have been watching all these iphone developers making money with the iphone and now they get the same opportunity to make money from the WP7 platform. It's a given they all know how to code in XNA and silverlight. Then add on that MS developer tools make every other platform look ridiculously hard to develop for.

    But who knows...

    we'll see come October.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by EMPOLLA View Post
    I admit I am being optimistic about it but that's just the way I see it.

    A 1000 of those 3000 are to developers around the world whom MS thought worthy of owning a developer unit. The other 2000 who knows, MS employees makes the most sense.

    You have to admit though, working at MS, owning and developing apps for the apple platform is frowned upon plus you need a mac and it's a different language. I imagine the same goes for the android platform. Since MS have announced that all their employees (all 90,000) will get a WP7 device when it launches there is going to be a lot of excitement and incentive for them to develop apps for the WP7 platform. They have been watching all these iphone developers making money with the iphone and now they get the same opportunity to make money from the WP7 platform. It's a given they all know how to code in XNA and silverlight. Then add on that MS developer tools make every other platform look ridiculously hard to develop for.
    if this is true, and M$ must pay the OEMs $350 per phone (unsubsidized wholesale) and there are 90,000 employees, then you're talking upwards of $36 million -- unless M$ is also picking up the data / phone plans too.

    Truly only M$ can throw away $36 million here, $700 million+ there (for the Kin) -- and its nothing more than an incidental line item on their balance sheet.

    Last I checked M$ identifies itself as a software company. Why aren't they developing Apps for the iPhone, for Android -- they profitably develop programs for Apple ??

    Had they been getting internal experience in catering modern Apps for mobile customers, had their developers been forced to learn those tweaks and disciplines -- maybe maybe they'd not be starting from such a cold calcified dead start.

    BTW -- if I'm Steve Balmer, I would have thrown thrown chairs and employees both against the wall, while screaming with a rage that would have separated flesh from bone -- I would have declared that no programmer goes anywhere but beneath his desk, and no manager keeps any stock options -- until cut, copy, and paste are successfully, smoothly, written into WP7 for release.

    If this OS comes to market without at least that feature, critics are rightfully going to use that idiocy as a hook with which to savage WP7 and M$.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19. #59  
    Though I'm totally digging WP7, I agree about the copy/paste thing. It's absolutely unimaginable that they won't have that ready for launch. Here's where I might say "but I don't use copy/paste anyway" except that'd be a lie-- I just sent my brother a link to an interesting story today on my Pre using copy/paste.
    THIS IS HOW WE HANDLE BUSINESS
  20. #60  
    Yeah, but MS has already stated they have contextual menu for obvious copy and paste users (links, phone numbers, address) to forward via email/text and such.

    Honestly, i RARELY copy and paste from the Pre browser...95% of my C&P is phone numbers, urls and text messages.

    If WM7 indeed has a contextual menu for all those things i doubt it will be a serious issue...just a negative tech websites will pick out.
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