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  1.    #1  
    I was at the mall yesterday and they had an HTC EVO display area so that anyone can test out the EVO. Well I wanted to see how my Palm Pre with the SR71 blackbird kernel stacked up in responsiveness compared to the EVO. In almost every case my Pre was ready to go about 1-2 seconds before the EVO. I tested the camera, calendar, email app, phone, sprint tv and music ( I tested against nanplayer). These were the ones that I thought were comparable across both. In all of these cases the Pre was the clear winner especially the camera, calendar and sprint tv. The EVO just bested me on the music app but I attribute this to the fact that I have almost 6 full albums of music on my phone. I also tested google maps and gmail against our email app. These definitely seem to load a couple of seconds faster on the EVO. This is probably because they are properly optimized to work with google apis. I also want to point out that my phone has a ton of apps both homebrew and app store, files (music pics, videos), an exchange account and google account for email, calendar, tasks, and im and is patched (28) quite a bit compared to the almost bare bones settings on the EVO. So it appears that at 1.2GHz the Pre can be as responsive as some of the best Android phones out there. If Palm could get a CPU chip that is about this fast or faster and get the GPU working for proper graphics rendering, the next Palm device would be on par if not better with regard to responsiveness than anything Android has and maybe even the iPhone 4 (clearly the king when it comes to responsiveness of an operating system). It seems like a very doable thing and I look forward to Palm releasing such a phone.
  2. #2  
    Not everything in life requires scientific proof.
    User experience can go a long way without it
    Nice comparison.
  3. #3  
    what about google maps?
  4. #4  
    <<Thread Moved>>
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  5. #5  
    Nice investigative work..... Lets start eating the competition, shall we?
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by badjokes View Post
    what about google maps?
    Like I said google maps was quicker on the EVO than on my Pre. I'm guessing that is a function of better api optimization with their own services.
  7. #7  
    So using an experimental kernel that developer explicitly tells you will fail and force you to doctor your phone, you were able to get the Pre on par with an Android phone using a chip clocked lower running an older version of Android with a skin on top of it? Awesome.

    It's a fool's game. By the time HPalm releases a comparably spec'd device, Motorola and/or HTC will be unleashing their 1.5-2GHZ devices with Froyo and/or Gingerbread. It's pointless.

    Make WebOS run smooth and stutter-free on a stock Sprint Pre. Everything else should be cake after that.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So using an experimental kernel that developer explicitly tells you will fail and force you to doctor your phone, you were able to get the Pre on par with an Android phone using a chip clocked lower running an older version of Android with a skin on top of it? Awesome.

    It's a fool's game. By the time HPalm releases a comparably spec'd device, Motorola and/or HTC will be unleashing their 1.5-2GHZ devices with Froyo and/or Gingerbread. It's pointless.

    Make WebOS run smooth and stutter-free on a stock Sprint Pre. Everything else should be cake after that.
    +1 the only hope i have left for palm is if they release a cortex a9 based device within 6 months. otherwise i'll just jump to the first cortex a9 based android device.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    So using an experimental kernel that developer explicitly tells you will fail and force you to doctor your phone, you were able to get the Pre on par with an Android phone using a chip clocked lower running an older version of Android with a skin on top of it? Awesome.

    It's a fool's game. By the time HPalm releases a comparably spec'd device, Motorola and/or HTC will be unleashing their 1.5-2GHZ devices with Froyo and/or Gingerbread. It's pointless.

    Make WebOS run smooth and stutter-free on a stock Sprint Pre. Everything else should be cake after that.
    Well, I still consider this a worthy comparison considering it cost $0 and you get your pre to perform as he mentioned above. Lets not forget the fact that no amount of hardware will fix androids UI deficiencies(fighting words!) Not the most detailed comparison in the world but definitely good information for current pre owners thinking of switching and potentially future owners of a webOS device (be it a Pre or a forthcoming REAL 1ghz+ device)
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by nexgencpu View Post
    Well, I still consider this a worthy comparison considering it cost $0 and you get your pre to perform as he mentioned above. Lets not forget the fact that no amount of hardware will fix androids UI deficiencies(fighting words!) Not the most detailed comparison in the world but definitely good information for current pre owners thinking of switching and potentially future owners of a webOS device (be it a Pre or a forthcoming REAL 1ghz+ device)
    +1
  11. #11  
    Not to be a a ****.

    But a video comparision would be good if anyone is able to complete one. I'm overclocked at 800mhz and even then i still get random bouts of lag.
  12.    #12  
    Wow mikah you always need to point out negatives to counter anything positive anyone says about webOS.

    First, you do realize I am comparing hardware that is essentially a year older than the EVOs right?

    Second, I was pointing out that with better hardware (stronger CPU so we don't fry it having to OC) webOS can be as responsive as the current generation iPhone and Android phones. I wasn't suggesting that Palm simply use the old CPU and add this kernel.

    Finally, I mentioned at the end of the OP that I though utilizing the GPU would be essential for Palm to compete in the responsiveness category.

    Making webOS run sooth on a stock Pre might not be possible. I don't know one way or the other. The OS might be too resource intensive to ever be capable of doing so. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that optimizing webOS would make it so responsive that it is super snappy at even 500 MHz. I just wanted to point out what a faster processor might do for the next webOS device.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by nexgencpu View Post
    Well, I still consider this a worthy comparison considering it cost $0 and you get your pre to perform as he mentioned above. Lets not forget the fact that no amount of hardware will fix androids UI deficiencies(fighting words!) Not the most detailed comparison in the world but definitely good information for current pre owners thinking of switching and potentially future owners of a webOS device (be it a Pre or a forthcoming REAL 1ghz+ device)
    Also good information - which is posted in huge letters in the SR71 thread to begin with:

    DO NOT INSTALL THIS IF YOU LIKE YOUR PHONE!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

    Better yet.... DO NOT INSTALL THIS UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO DOCTOR YOUR PHONE BECAUSE IT WILL FAIL!!!


    You're acting like that's not germane to the discussion, which is absurd, quite frankly.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Also good information - which is posted in huge letters in the SR71 thread to begin with:

    DO NOT INSTALL THIS IF YOU LIKE YOUR PHONE!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

    Better yet.... DO NOT INSTALL THIS UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO DOCTOR YOUR PHONE BECAUSE IT WILL FAIL!!!


    You're acting like that's not germane to the discussion, which is absurd, quite frankly.
    Its not germane because no one is suggesting that the fix to webOS lagginess is adding an OC kernel.

    What I am saying is that new hardware with a faster CPU will make the phone more responsive. . So much so that it is up to par with phones that have just released. This kernel seems to prove as much.

    Further, I would not suggest that I want Palm to only focus on a bigger CPU. I would hope Palm is working on optimization of the software and integration of the GPU. Otherwise, as you suggested they will once again quickly fall behind.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Wow mikah you always need to point out negatives to counter anything positive anyone says about webOS.

    First, you do realize I am comparing hardware that is essentially a year older than the EVOs right?

    Second, I was pointing out that with better hardware (stronger CPU so we don't fry it having to OC) webOS can be as responsive as the current generation iPhone and Android phones. I wasn't suggesting that Palm simply use the old CPU and add this kernel.

    Finally, I mentioned at the end of the OP that I though utilizing the GPU would be essential for Palm to compete in the responsiveness category.

    Making webOS run sooth on a stock Pre might not be possible. I don't know one way or the other. The OS might be too resource intensive to ever be capable of doing so. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that optimizing webOS would make it so responsive that it is super snappy at even 500 MHz. I just wanted to point out what a faster processor might do for the next webOS device.

    very good comparison, and yes with the GPU alone optimized with a current pre it would be very snappy and more responsive then most phones on the market. Remember people even the iphone 3Gs was just as fast and more responsive then the Nexus 1 when compared side by side at phonedog.net and the iphone 3gs is only clocked at 600mhz, with the nexus at 1ghz. The speed of a chip has little to do with how well the OS works, if the OS is not optimized correctly to be able to handle applications in a sudable matter. Even if HPalm releases the next device with a stock 1ghz and optimized the GPU and the OS correctly webos, would fly faster and better then anything Android can come out with, even with a 2ghz phone. Android OS optimization is choppy, the reason why it is not as elegant as WeboS, or Apple's OS.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Wow mikah you always need to point out negatives to counter anything positive anyone says about webOS.
    There was nothing negative about what I said. It wasn't an apples-to-apples comparison, which is true...not negative or positive. It's also a method that the very developer warns you not to use, which is also true.

    Facts are negative now?

    First, you do realize I am comparing hardware that is essentially a year older than the EVOs right?
    Wrong. The Snapdragon chipset at 1Ghz was running in Toshiba's TG01 which was released in June 2009, the exact same month the Pre hit the market. Their hardware age is - as far as CPU/performance goes - identical.

    Second, I was pointing out that with better hardware (stronger CPU so we don't fry it having to OC) webOS can be as responsive as the current generation iPhone and Android phones. I wasn't suggesting that Palm simply use the old CPU and add this kernel.
    Nor did I suggest that you were. I explicitly said that by the time HPalm releases hardware that natively runs at that speed, their competitors will be way past it on newer versions of Android. That just makes the comparison even more invalid.

    Making webOS run sooth on a stock Pre might not be possible. I don't know one way or the other. The OS might be too resource intensive to ever be capable of doing so. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that optimizing webOS would make it so responsive that it is super snappy at even 500 MHz. I just wanted to point out what a faster processor might do for the next webOS device.
    We'll probably never know. HPalm will probably not waste time trying to correct these initial flaws and just throw more hardware at it like pretty much every manufacturer except for Apple does.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Its not germane because no one is suggesting that the fix to webOS lagginess is adding an OC kernel.
    What? It's germane because it's experimental and ill-advised if you don't want to doctor your Pre and possibly have to replace it. If the the developer sees fit to call attention to that with huge fonts at the top of the page, I'm pretty sure it should be mentioned in any discussion of this kernel. The editors at PreCentral seem to agree.

    What I am saying is that new hardware with a faster CPU will make the phone more responsive. . So much so that it is up to par with phones that have just released. This kernel seems to prove as much.
    But your comparison is with a chipset that is clocked lower and was first released at the same time the Pre came out. The Droid X has a faster processor. So does all of the Samsung Galaxy Phones and the Droid 2. The Evo 4G is the only one "just released" that has the older Snapdragon chipset. Motorola has already announced a 2ghz handset. HTC will not be far behind.

    Additionally, it's running an older version of Android, which is slower than Froyo. My point is that if this makes it "up to par" with one recently released Android handset that is running stock, but can easily be supercharged with a custom ROM and overclocking, what does that tell you? Nothing. What kind of achievement is that? No kind.

    That's no disrespect to the awesome developers making this stuff happen. Just putting it in perspective.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There was nothing negative about what I said. It wasn't an apples-to-apples comparison, which is true...not negative or positive. It's also a method that the very developer warns you not to use, which is also true.

    Facts are negative now?



    Wrong. The Snapdragon chipset at 1Ghz was running in Toshiba's TG01 which was released in June 2009, the exact same month the Pre hit the market. Their hardware age is - as far as CPU/performance goes - identical.



    Nor did I suggest that you were. I explicitly said that by the time HPalm releases hardware that natively runs at that speed, their competitors will be way past it on newer versions of Android. That just makes the comparison even more invalid.



    We'll probably never know. HPalm will probably not waste time trying to correct these initial flaws and just throw more hardware at it like pretty much every manufacturer except for Apple does.
    I guess I took this as a negative comment:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    It's a fool's game. By the time HPalm releases a comparably spec'd device, Motorola and/or HTC will be unleashing their 1.5-2GHZ devices with Froyo and/or Gingerbread. It's pointless.
    I didn't realize those were facts and not opinion. I apologize for misunderstanding.

    The hardware I was referring to was the overall hardware of the EVO in comparison to the overall hardware of the Palm Pre.

    I guess when it's all said and done the OP was my personal experience and opinion. Make of it what you will. I think Tomi666 said it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by tomi666 View Post
    Not everything in life requires scientific proof.
    User experience can go a long way without it
    Nice comparison.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What? It's germane because it's experimental and ill-advised if you don't want to doctor your Pre and possibly have to replace it. If the the developer sees fit to call attention to that with huge fonts at the top of the page, I'm pretty sure it should be mentioned in any discussion of this kernel. The editors at PreCentral seem to agree.
    I'm not suggesting to people that they add this kernel to their phone. If anyone takes this thread as an endorsement or suggestion to add this kernel then definitely take the warning mentioned in mikahs post above very seriously.



    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But your comparison is with a chipset that is clocked lower and was first released at the same time the Pre came out. The Droid X has a faster processor. So does all of the Samsung Galaxy Phones and the Droid 2. The Evo 4G is the only one "just released" that has the older Snapdragon chipset. Motorola has already announced a 2ghz handset. HTC will not be far behind.

    Additionally, it's running an older version of Android, which is slower than Froyo. My point is that if this makes it "up to par" with one recently released Android handset that is running stock, but can easily be supercharged with a custom ROM and overclocking, what does that tell you? Nothing. What kind of achievement is that? No kind.

    That's no disrespect to the awesome developers making this stuff happen. Just putting it in perspective.
    This precisely why I mentioned only EVO (not android) and that the comparison was completely and totally unscientific in the thread title. Merely a comparison to one phone that was released a full year after the Palm Pre. I think it gives some insight into what the potential for webOS is.

    Furthermore, I hope you are not suggesting that manufactures stop using better chipsets as they become available. Of course Moto, HTC, and Palm will continue to look to better chipsets as they design new phones.
  20. #20  
    I think the ultimate point that we can all agree upon is that true UI fluidity that scales with each generation is only possible through a perfect marriage of hardware and software being tuned to each other. Apple is the only company that's really achieved this thus far, even though they are not the only company capable of achieving it.

    Microsoft is my next hope since they are starting with a fluid GPU-enabled UI from even the beta stages and are providing developers the tools they need to take advantage of this.
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