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  1. #21  
    pre 800mhz vs evo...
    at evo release... I visited my friendly neighborhood sprint shack... And did a lil comparison myself. The big diff I noticed was the video quality on youtube and sprint tv playback. Pre had better color . Evo looked washed out. Also, sprint tv was less laggy on pre. Honest comparison. Evo had many pluses due to bigger screen. Web browsng was cool... Even though I would not need that much screen real estate
    Last edited by clutch1222; 07/21/2010 at 12:52 PM.
  2. #22  
    Want a fair comparison? Compare a stock Palm Pre to a stock iPhone 3G S, which are uhmm, comparable in hardware. You tell me which performs better.

    Optimization lies in the software, not the hardware. Throwing hardware at a software problem is not a solution.

    You're just putting lipstick on a pig.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Want a fair comparison? Compare a stock Palm Pre to a stock iPhone 3G S, which are uhmm, comparable in hardware. You tell me which performs better.

    Optimization lies in the software, not the hardware. Throwing hardware at a software problem is not a solution.

    You're just putting lipstick on a pig.
    Unless it gets you the results you want ;-)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    Unless it gets you the results you want ;-)
    No, because then it stunts growth. Take the first iPhone for example. It performed well up until iOS 4; due to an optimized OS a device stayed in the game well past its end of life.

    If and when HP/Palm releases new hardware and continues to push WebOS without optimization, at what point will the Pre and Pixi become useless without hacking/patching it? Never mind the other horrendous decisions made in hardware (not the internals).
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Want a fair comparison? Compare a stock Palm Pre to a stock iPhone 3G S, which are uhmm, comparable in hardware. You tell me which performs better.

    Optimization lies in the software, not the hardware. Throwing hardware at a software problem is not a solution.

    You're just putting lipstick on a pig.
    it's not a fair comparison...imo.
    a stock 3gs is very limited in options.
    wthe whole attraction to webOS is you can patch it to customize how ever you would like... And remove them with out wiping the phone.
    one example of options on a stock pre that was very much appreciated....the ability to use any wall paper you desired... Or any ringtone.
    free .... More options... Better imo.
    then you add gestures, notications, universal search, integrated email inbox. All better imo
    I may be missing your point.. But wouldn't an OS being capable of doing more... And doing some better...be considered better performance?
    I will def disagree that improving hardware will not improve the experience...and so will many others on this site. My pre OC'ed runs way smoother... Snappier then it did stock. Will hardware solve all os issues ...no. Does it help big time.. Yes.
    if your argument is that ios is more polished.... It obviously should be.... It was on it's 4th release compared to palms 1st. Not a fair comparison imo
    don't cut and past comments out of context...its weak. I make my point within the whole post
    Last edited by clutch1222; 07/21/2010 at 02:50 PM.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    it's not a fair comparison...imo.
    a stock 3gs is very limited in options.
    wthe whole attraction to webOS is you can patch it to customize how ever you would like... And remove them with out wiping the phone.
    one example of options on a stock pre that was very much appreciated....the ability to use any wall paper you desired... Or any ringtone.
    free .... More options... Better imo.
    then you add gestures, notications, universal search, integrated email inbox. All better imo
    You lost me.

    It seems you're trying to spin the poorly optimized OS to appear like it's actually okay because it is "featured filled". That's like putting the blame on Linux because it lacks certain "features" even though it performs 10x more efficiently (and stable) than Windows.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What? It's germane because it's experimental and ill-advised if you don't want to doctor your Pre and possibly have to replace it. If the the developer sees fit to call attention to that with huge fonts at the top of the page, I'm pretty sure it should be mentioned in any discussion of this kernel. The editors at PreCentral seem to agree.



    But your comparison is with a chipset that is clocked lower and was first released at the same time the Pre came out. The Droid X has a faster processor. So does all of the Samsung Galaxy Phones and the Droid 2. The Evo 4G is the only one "just released" that has the older Snapdragon chipset. Motorola has already announced a 2ghz handset. HTC will not be far behind.

    Additionally, it's running an older version of Android, which is slower than Froyo. My point is that if this makes it "up to par" with one recently released Android handset that is running stock, but can easily be supercharged with a custom ROM and overclocking, what does that tell you? Nothing. What kind of achievement is that? No kind.

    That's no disrespect to the awesome developers making this stuff happen. Just putting it in perspective.


    I understand what you saying, but I see this a huge step in development. Yes the newer devices like the droid X, and Evo's can be overclocked higher then any current Pre. Though I look at it even with bench test that shows the pre running at the same speed as these phones, perform better, which tells me that the issue as always has only been build quality. The new version whenever it comes out, I'm sure will be able to compete with whatever Google releases, and as most developers knows its also how you optimized the OS, in conjuction with the CPU, and GPU that makes performance not just raw power (hence the iphone 3Gs was still being faster then the nexus one, and performing better running at a mere 600 and the nexus one running 1ghz). Also the deveolpers here are making more progress in terms of tweaking safely then the android community, and XDA windows mobile community. I myself love the idea that we have a hacker communtiy thats so supportive, because it adds longeivity to our phones, and opposed to being Googles slave in buying a phone like a droid or nexus one then 6 months it being dropped and not supported anymore. Forcing you to buy another model that is very similar to the disconntinued model just so that google can continue to make money off of these robots. I myself choose the ladder, and welcome developers who push a phone to its limits, helping people like us in our community not only to keep up with the newer competiton, but to help us save money.
  8. #28  
    OMG...

    God forbid, a user posts a comparison of his year old Pre, overclocked to match the speed of the processor on the 2 month old Evo, and, he is chastized for not doing an "apples to apples" comparison.

    Geez... shoot him, he's a criminal with no conscience!

    NOT!

    Look, the Pre is a year old+ now, and the WebOSinternals guys have provided MUCH needed kernal development to overclock this hardware so that it performs better than it ever did, and is comparible to current smartphone speeds and performances, even the very best, thereby EXTENDING the usability of the Pre, for no cost, with better overall user experiences, to boot!

    Cost: $0.

    Efficiency: 100%

    Value: Priceless!

    Carry on....

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    You lost me.

    It seems you're trying to spin the poorly optimized OS to appear like it's actually okay because it is "featured filled". That's like putting the blame on Linux because it lacks certain "features" even though it performs 10x more efficiently (and stable) than Windows.
    fair enough.
    then you lost me because you are compaing webOS at launch to apple 3gs... And the only criteria you are accepting is that ios as an os performs more efficiently.
    if I state that's not a fair comparison... You will call me out on excuses.
    it's a pointless claim imo.
    either way... I preferred the unpolished, feature filled webos...with the ability to use what ever wall paper I wanted Y among other features)To the more polished, controlled , limited ios.
    which one performs better? Depends who you ask and what the criteria is for" performance".
  10. #30  
    apple has the best hardware / software integration . .. With ios that is 4 yrs old. Many argue ape will need to scrap ios to stay competitive.
    is it any surprise that iphone with a 4yr old os is the most efficient and polished? No
    are webOS and android more innovative and open? Yes.

    is it amazing that a pre oc'ed to twice it's stock speed can hang with the latest evo? Yes!
  11. #31  
    Mikah 912, i think the point the op was trying to make is that web-os itself isn't as slow as people make it out to be. It's just that it's running bellow what a "os-only" company would recommend as "minimum/recommended" specs. He was trying to mkae users hopeful of the upcoming hardware.

    I also get that you where trying to put things in perspective.


    one las point: You said that "by the time palm catches up, they will" I think that sentence should be changed to "shortly after palm catches up, they will".. Cause palm didn't release outdated hardware, they where the first to use omap3, it's just that the phones gotten really old..

    Now if we could all shake hands, and get on with our lifes (metaphorically) i'd make everyone happy.)
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    I understand what you saying, but I see this a huge step in development. Yes the newer devices like the droid X, and Evo's can be overclocked higher then any current Pre. Though I look at it even with bench test that shows the pre running at the same speed as these phones, perform better, which tells me that the issue as always has only been build quality.
    Build quality is ONE issue. Lack of apps is another. Lack of mindshare is another. Advertising is another. I could go on for quite awhile.

    But a homebrewed, overclocked, guaranteed-to-fail-eventually and unstable Pre "running at the same speed" as ONE current Android phone using the OLDEST higher-tier hardware (1ghz Snapdragon) with an OLD version of Android that is slower with a skin layer on top running stock is a step in "development" how?

    The new version whenever it comes out, I'm sure will be able to compete with whatever Google releases, and as most developers knows its also how you optimized the OS, in conjuction with the CPU, and GPU that makes performance not just raw power (hence the iphone 3Gs was still being faster then the nexus one, and performing better running at a mere 600 and the nexus one running 1ghz). Also the deveolpers here are making more progress in terms of tweaking safely then the android community, and XDA windows mobile community. I myself love the idea that we have a hacker communtiy thats so supportive, because it adds longeivity to our phones, and opposed to being Googles slave in buying a phone like a droid or nexus one then 6 months it being dropped and not supported anymore. Forcing you to buy another model that is very similar to the disconntinued model just so that google can continue to make money off of these robots. I myself choose the ladder, and welcome developers who push a phone to its limits, helping people like us in our community not only to keep up with the newer competiton, but to help us save money.
    That's just not accurate at all. The G1 - which premiered almost two years ago - JUST got a Cyanogen mod with Froyo. The guy is a legend, but I guess he doesn't put out product as "safely" as the developers here who warn you not to use their products or else. Ok.

    The idea that someone is a "slave" to a Google device when they have endless choices in varying form factors on all four carriers, versus WebOS where you can choose between two aging tiny handsets of dubious quality on three carriers and nothing else, is ridiculous on its face.

    I would like to think the next version of WebOS hardware can compete with what Google has on the market then, but that's the problem. Who knows when that will be? What's planned? What are the specs? I know of the Android handset map and OS plans for pretty much the rest of the year, and that's a platform with critical mass and sales behind it. What do we have on WebOS? Faith? Hope?

    I'm just tired of people painting this silly picture of Android with critiques that go double for WebOS. The communities and OSes have way more in common than they do differences, and HPalm might wanna take a few notes so they can get above that rather embarrassing 0 percent marketshare.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    OMG...

    God forbid, a user posts a comparison of his year old Pre, overclocked to match the speed of the processor on the 2 month old Evo, and, he is chastized for not doing an "apples to apples" comparison.

    Geez... shoot him, he's a criminal with no conscience!

    NOT!

    Look, the Pre is a year old+ now, and the WebOSinternals guys have provided MUCH needed kernal development to overclock this hardware so that it performs better than it ever did, and is comparible to current smartphone speeds and performances, even the very best, thereby EXTENDING the usability of the Pre, for no cost, with better overall user experiences, to boot!

    Cost: $0.

    Efficiency: 100%

    Value: Priceless!

    Carry on....

    My point is that Palm should be doing this with their updates because the only real bottleneck is WebOS, not the RAM or the processor. The iPhone 3GS with 256MB of RAM and an identical processor to the Sprint Pre can multitask with iOS4 and run rings around the Pre in UI smoothness and responsiveness. No "Too Many Programs" errors. Way less browser checkerboarding. Every tap registers. Frames aren't dropping. The current Android phones are also a cut above WebOS in speed and responsiveness.

    Doubling the Preclock speed does little to change this. I run a heavily overclocked Pre myself. It's still laggy and unoptimized. If anything, I see the lag more clearly now because the rest of the time it's faster.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    My point is that Palm should be doing this with their updates because the only real bottleneck is WebOS, not the RAM or the processor. The iPhone 3GS with 256MB of RAM and an identical processor to the Sprint Pre can multitask with iOS4 and run rings around the Pre in UI smoothness and responsiveness. No "Too Many Programs" errors. Way less browser checkerboarding. Every tap registers. Frames aren't dropping. The current Android phones are also a cut above WebOS in speed and responsiveness.

    Doubling the Preclock speed does little to change this. I run a heavily overclocked Pre myself. It's still laggy and unoptimized. If anything, I see the lag more clearly now because the rest of the time it's faster.
    you def make some good points... But from my experience, your wrong on this one.
    I have 2 freinds that tried running ios4 on their 3gs phones... It was slow and very laggy. I watched 4th of july fireworks with one of them. We both shot video and uploaded to facebook that night. All friends know we have an ongoing smartphone battle. Not only did the vid quality of pre look better..but there was no lag. His video of the same fireworks...very laggy. I also was able to turn on my flash and get our faces in on video.
    fb friends chimmed in and gave him crap... Because the proof was there for everyone to see. We both did not intend for this to happy. In his defense...he was already complaining about lag and slow with ios4. He said the minor improvements were not worth the drop in performance. Both of my friends reverted back to jailbroken iphones.. With previous ios.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=945238
  15. #35  
    with govanah oc'ed pre... After every reboot you need to reopen govanah and reapply oc settings.
    the only time my pre is laggy.. Is when I forget to do this.
    also, my phone is over a year old... I do not plan on using it much longer. It does not need to last "forever". I am glad I have the options to run diff kernals and maximize performance.
  16. #36  
    I had a completely different experience with my overclocked Pre vs. An iPhone 3GS with iOS4, but then again...we didn't compare videos. Just app loading and UI performance.

    In any case, it's still way behind the pack right now.
  17. #37  
    You still have options on the iPhone or any other device for that matter. The only difference is Palm just doesn't frown upon it as much as say .. Apple does. However, if you fry your Pre because you overclocked don't expect Palm to replace it for you for free. No difference between Apple and Palm there.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    You still have options on the iPhone or any other device for that matter. The only difference is Palm just doesn't frown upon it as much as say .. Apple does. However, if you fry your Pre because you overclocked don't expect Palm to replace it for you for free. No difference between Apple and Palm there.
    6 months of OC... nothing fried yet. If it does... I will claim it lost and pay $100 for a new one.. service plan.
    I havent heard of anyone frying one yet... does not seem to an issue.
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    #39  
    The evo is an awesome phone. It's pretty fast and very responsive. Right now I think it's the best phone on any network.

    If only it was running webOS, then I'll be on board. But I'm holding out to see what Hpalm is cooking.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    6 months of OC... nothing fried yet. If it does... I will claim it lost and pay $100 for a new one.. service plan.
    I havent heard of anyone frying one yet... does not seem to an issue.

    And just until recently no one has been running a Pre that's overclocked 100% of it's original clock speed.
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