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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    OK, now I'm clear.
    Journalists (who you still haven't named) were under an NDA to not release the reviews until approximately 6 months after the product was initially announced.

    Palm users had WebOS units in their hands, approximately 6 months after the product was initially announced. A few select tech reviewers had it "approximately" a week or two before launch.

    And this means MS has "more stones".

    OK.
    I hope you're trying to be obtuse. For your sake...

    Microsoft sent out their product far before it was fully baked and - most importantly - let them tell the world about what the software was like in that early stage. That's how confident they are, and it's doubly smart because it keeps buzz alive during the long interim between announcement and hitting retail shelves.

    Palm essentially kept doing non-interactive, controlled demos of WebOS up until the month before launch. That's how much confidence they lacked in where WebOS was at the time. Accordingly, Pre buzz gradually began dying down, and after a nice launch, WebOS sales dropped every quarter afterward, despite them releasing improved hardware to more locations.

    Microsoft may very well meet the same fate, but they are positioning their OS better than Palm did at this same point in the game in the Spring of 2009.
  2. #22  
    Additionally, this was (is?) Palm's only iron in the fire so to speak, so the heat was on, and still is.


    To MS, this phone is a major launch for sure, but just a piece of a large business that has announcements every day.

    This is ALL Palm was working on.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I hope you're trying to be obtuse. For your sake...

    Microsoft sent out their product far before it was fully baked and - most importantly - let them tell the world about what the software was like in that early stage. That's how confident they are, and it's doubly smart because it keeps buzz alive during the long interim between announcement and hitting retail shelves.
    No, I'm not being obtuse, though I suspect you keep sliding the conversation deliberately.

    On the one hand, you specifically mentioned that they were released from an NDA (non-disclosure agreement, just in case someone reading is wondering), then on the other you claim "let them tell the world about what the software wa like in that early stage".

    Which was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Palm essentially kept doing non-interactive, controlled demos of WebOS up until the month before launch. That's how much confidence they lacked in where WebOS was at the time.
    You're assuming that it's because "they lacked confidence in where WebOS was at the time". A counter to that could be that Palm had the confidence six months after their announcement to release the product, and MS does not.

    My point is, and remains, this has nothing to do with "stones", and everything to do with what each particular company needed out of their release.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Microsoft may very well meet the same fate, but they are positioning their OS better than Palm did at this same point in the game in the Spring of 2009.
    On this one we can agree - but I'll again state, it has nothing to do with "stones", it has to do with what the company needed to do. Palm did not have the luxury of depending on other products to carry them through while they took their time with the release.

    And, I will loop that back to my original point.

    They took 6 months, and people complained it was too long
    MS has taken 6 months (and it's still not released) and the complaints are not coming that they are taking too long.
  4.    #24  
    There is a lot of back and forth for something that i think is a simple answer.


    They don't need to.

    Same with Apple taking the same amount of time to release the original iPhone. Their not hedging their companies fortune on it.

    Besides Microsoft said when the first showed it it would launch fall of 2010. Not just 2nd half, but fall...they now drilled it down to possibly October.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No, I'm not being obtuse, though I suspect you keep sliding the conversation deliberately.

    On the one hand, blah de usual irrelevant tangent distraction tactic
    Whatevs.

    You're assuming that it's because "they lacked confidence in where WebOS was at the time". A counter to that could be that Palm had the confidence six months after their announcement to release the product, and MS does not.
    Hahaha...they announced a release window and put it out at the very end of said window to consumers only because they HAD TO, complete with a day one patch. No Facebook app, no video recording, no GPU access, and no 3D gaming. No uncontrolled demos. By contrast, Microsoft has multiple builds of the OS out for all to see with the Tegra graphics fully enabled, video recording, Facebook updates integrated IN the OS, and Xbox Live games queued up, along with robust tools to developers...all well before release.

    My point is, and remains, this has nothing to do with "stones", and everything to do with what each particular company needed out of their release.
    Absolutely disagree. Palm had a swagger and brio at CES (Remember Ed Colligan saying why would it be cheaper than iPhone when it was BETTER?) that was completely missing as the months went on. They essentially slunk off and gave up trying to sync with iTunes while offering no alternative of their own. They went with soft, inoffensive advertising that provoked no one. They hid WebOS away except for controlled demos until just before release.

    They took 6 months, and people complained it was too long
    MS has taken 6 months (and it's still not released) and the complaints are not coming that they are taking too long.
    It's been five months, actually, but I absolutely agree they are taking too long (and I've seen many comments to the same effect on WM boards). That being said, if you're going to wait 5-x months between announcing and launch, this is the best way to do it: Get your OS everywhere before then and go after developers with everything you got.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    They took 6 months, and people complained it was too long
    MS has taken 6 months (and it's still not released) and the complaints are not coming that they are taking too long.

    Aside from the Pre faithful, were there *really* that many people complaining that it was too long? Did any one else really pay attention until launch?
    (I am sincerely asking; I think a board like this tends to think everyone is as anticipatory as they are)

    And do we know for a fact that Win7 fans are not complaining? because I think they are, at least to each other.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    On the one hand, blah de usual irrelevant tangent distraction tactic
    Whatevs.
    Excuse me, but if you're going to "quote" me, at least show the honesty and respect to quote me, and not edit the quote to make it say what you want it to say, instead of what I actually said. I know that you probably find it difficult to not try to control other's thoughts and words, but give it a go.

    To be accurate, you took it to the "irrelevant tangent distracaction tactic" with the non-topic about Microsoft's "stones" and your obsession with them. I'll let it go by acknowledging their stones are probably everything you wish them to be - - - at least to you.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Aside from the Pre faithful, were there *really* that many people complaining that it was too long? Did any one else really pay attention until launch?
    (I am sincerely asking; I think a board like this tends to think everyone is as anticipatory as they are)

    And do we know for a fact that Win7 fans are not complaining? because I think they are, at least to each other.
    Good points both. As to the latter, as I said, I really don't follow the Windows Phone 7 stuff that much. The Windows fans very well may be complaining that it's too long. However, as to the former, most of the complaining I've seen have been from the Palm unfaithful - the armchair CEOs who insist that had they been in charge, it would have been done differently, and right (yet, somehow, they don't let us know about the companies they've run properly, or the products they've introduced successfully - go figger).
  9.    #29  
    btw..

    Listened to the Engadget podcast today...Joshua sounded impressed. He said there are things that need to be addressed an ultimately the app situation will mark its success but he's impressed.
  10. #30  
    :Yawn: That interface alone will make people run back to their old phones. They were a joke with the Zune and will be again with this phone.

    Have you guys SEEN the Kin? See where it is now?? lol
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yappity blah who cares BS...you took it to the "irrelevant tangent distracaction tactic" with the non-topic about Microsoft's "stones" and your obsession with them. I'll let it go by acknowledging their stones are probably everything you wish them to be - - - at least to you.
    Wow. Has there ever been a more classic case of projection? I used the word "stones" as an aside once in this thread while you keep quoting and responding to it in post after post, yet I am the one who is "obsessed" and "creating a tangent". Poor Herb. If it makes your feelings hurt less, I also used the word "confidence" to refer to the exact same thing, so now you have something new to obsess over.

    Oh, but wait...I forgot you let it go, right?

    Back to the actual thread topic...I think Microsoft needs to get their butts in gear and do whatever they need to do to add Twitter to their native social hub or whatever. From what I've read of the various previews, it's a glaring omission, and it would be unfortunate if they created a situation like WebOS/Facebook where people are in the dark until way after launch. It's too ubiquitous to not be a day-one standard on any platform.
  12. #32  
    Lets just hope one thing. That Microsoft doesn't allow phones to be released with substandard hardware like they did for the Xbox 360.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever92 View Post
    :Yawn: That interface alone will make people run back to their old phones. They were a joke with the Zune and will be again with this phone.

    Have you guys SEEN the Kin? See where it is now?? lol
    The kin was a failed product and used the current Metro UI only for the Zune aspect of it.

    They are very far from being similar at all.

    The Zune HD is also highly praised as a great alternative to the iPod Touch (if apps aren't your thing).

    No one wants the Zune because people are entrenched in the iPod ecosystem...and that probably won't change for a long time. But being an owner of the Zune 80 and wanting the Zune HD i can tell you if most people gave it a try they would enjoy the Zune as well.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Lets just hope one thing. That Microsoft doesn't allow phones to be released with substandard hardware like they did for the Xbox 360.
    Yes, because Microsoft is in charge of the hardware for the phones....?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Lets just hope one thing. That Microsoft doesn't allow phones to be released with substandard hardware like they did for the Xbox 360.
    Microsoft set a very strict min hardware spec that all manufacturers must follow. They can only have "substandard" build quality, which is something Microsoft has no control over. The great thing is that several manufacturers (e.g. HTC, Dell, Samsung, LG) are making devices, so you will have choices much like Android.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    The kin was a failed product and used the current Metro UI only for the Zune aspect of it.
    Didn't I read somewhere that the Kin was originally supposed to run Windows Phone 7, but had to go with CE because of ... ahem ... delays of the OS?

    Speaking of the Kin, over $1 billion spent on it?? Wow, if they threw in a bit more, they could have just bought a mobile phone company
  17.    #37  
    I think it was originally....but honestly...the whole story of the Kin just sounds like things went wrong on so many levels from MS to Verizon to the change of the phone industry that they seemingly sent it out to die.

    What company cancels a product in 30 days if this wasn't a plan before it shipped?

    But nevertheless, Kin is a very different end product from Windows 7 haha.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's been five months, actually, but I absolutely agree they are taking too long (and I've seen many comments to the same effect on WM boards). That being said, if you're going to wait 5-x months between announcing and launch, this is the best way to do it: Get your OS everywhere before then and go after developers with everything you got.
    This is one area that MS is doing much much better than Palm. Trying to get developers interested in their OS. They have a proper set of development tools freely available long before the OS launch and developer hardware available to select developers. I think WM7 is going to be a 3rd Tier smartphone OS along with WebOS and whatever Nokia decides to use, but you can't fault their developer outreach efforts.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Didn't I read somewhere that the Kin was originally supposed to run Windows Phone 7, but had to go with CE because of ... ahem ... delays of the OS?

    Speaking of the Kin, over $1 billion spent on it?? Wow, if they threw in a bit more, they could have just bought a mobile phone company
    No, it was originally running the OS from the Sidekick.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    The Zune HD is also highly praised as a great alternative to the iPod Touch (if apps aren't your thing).

    No one wants the Zune because people are entrenched in the iPod ecosystem...and that probably won't change for a long time. But being an owner of the Zune 80 and wanting the Zune HD i can tell you if most people gave it a try they would enjoy the Zune as well.
    Highly praised but no one wants it? Who is praising it?
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