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  1. #21  
    Honestly, I have to agree that this is overblown. The Pre's radio/antennae is weaker than the Centro I had before... My wife still has the Centro and consistently gets better signal in the same places. If you read the research and see what the actual problem is, and factor in that AT&T is already known for poor signal in many places and yet people in those places keep buying iPhones... I can't really see that this "flaw" would be a real problem for the average user.

    Why not focus on the actual things that it still can't do, if we need to feel better than the iPhone?

    Notifications?
    Visually multitask two active apps on the screen?
    etc....
  2. danib62's Avatar
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    #22  
    So to sum up the apple presser: really the iphone is fine, the mean media made it all up, other phones are worse, here's a free case, now get off my lawn!
    m100 -> m125 -> zire 71 -> Treo 650 (VZW) -> Pre Plus (VZW) + TouchPad
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by genearch View Post

    They hit it out of the park..... Addressed the issue head on, showed that they are not alone with antenna issues, invested tons of money in testing, stepped up for their user base. Offered full refunds as well as refunds for bumpers bought, offered free cases.

    Slam dunk..
    I'm no iPhone fan, but give credit where due. They did the right thing.

    But "hitting it out of the park" is probably overstating it. The problem wasn't the antenna issue, it was the seeming arrogance of the early remarks of the Apple management and the lack of communication while the were "allegedly" working on the problem. (may have been or not, I don't have a direct line into Apple)

    But... you have better buckle your seat belt, the ride will get rough for you. Understand that a Pre/Pixi forum will have partisans on it .

    And to all the people who will try to slam Palm in retort, remember how you ribbed people who excused Palm issues by deflecting to the problems of other phone makers. Play it the same both ways.

    C
  4. ogeneo's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
    Why not focus on the actual things that it still can't do, if we need to feel better than the iPhone?

    Notifications?
    Visually multitask two active apps on the screen?
    etc....
    Only if you allow a differing opinion

    • - Voice Recording
    • - Voice Control
    • - App folders
    • - Auto focus
    • - Compass
    • - Memory
    • - 720p vs VGA
    • - 5MP Camera
    • - Battery Life
    • - Speed


    And finally the App store... I have several apps that I use on a daily basis that have nothing close to a Palm equal.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    I'm no iPhone fan, but give credit where due. They did the right thing.

    But "hitting it out of the park" is probably overstating it. The problem wasn't the antenna issue, it was the seeming arrogance of the early remarks of the Apple management and the lack of communication while the were "allegedly" working on the problem. (may have been or not, I don't have a direct line into Apple)

    But... you have better buckle your seat belt, the ride will get rough for you. Understand that a Pre/Pixi forum will have partisans on it .

    And to all the people who will try to slam Palm in retort, remember how you ribbed people who excused Palm issues by deflecting to the problems of other phone makers. Play it the same both ways.

    C
    Hi,

    The question isn't that Apple did the right thing, they have for now...The question is will they continue to do so after September 30th? From what little I have read, there is a big question if Apple will either continue giving out cases or bumpers...which it should to start of with.

    After all, I have had 4 palm smart phones, (Treo 300, 600, 650 & Centro) and they all came with cases, (I do not have a Pre, I still have a Centro, which is on the last 90 days of my 2 year contract).

    If not they need to fix the design...whcih Apple doesn't want to do either...now the difference between Iphone 4 and the Pre is that Apple knew for a year that this is a problem. I have no idea if Palm knew or didn't know that the Pre had "the Oreo" problem.

    The words that I have hear, is that Jobs was defiant or indignant, (I have enclosed an article using such language, I suggest you look at most major newspapers tonight, so far they have given Jobs poor marks in terms of his attittude)....that attitude is not going to help him, now that there is class action status granted to cases. It isn't going to help him, b/c US Senator Schumer, (D-NY) has also contacted Apple.

    Just b/c Jobs has had a hissy fit about the problem all week long. After all, he instructed Apple cust. service people NOT TO OFFER FREE BUMBERS, but he ended up having to back down. First of all, one of the big rules in business is never say never, which is what he did!

    I still think, unless Apple decided to give out bumpers until the phone is redesigned, (either when Iphone 5 comes out or a redesign of this one), isn't his offer just front ending sales? In other words, he is causing people to buy before Sept 30th, knowing they cannot get the bumper afterward....that will likely lead to either a drop in sales or legal action or both.

    When the last Iphone came out, the NY times ran an article stated, that Apple adroitly has managed to put any shortcomings of the Iphone's phone on AT&T and not on theselves...however, they felt it was both. Now today, I heard more or less the same thing on MSNBC. I was not watching I was listening and I only heard, what the person said, (from a tech website, but I do not know which one), that, "The Iphone has always been great on the organizer end of the Iphone, but the phone portion has always been it's weakest area"....that is why they couldn't understand why they didn't just give out the bumper, fall on his sword & end this all.....

    Instead he seemed to make it worse in a way, b/c we all know there will be another showdown about this when we get near Sept 30th. By that time, I assume that a number of States will be looking into it as wel.

    Apple has been pushing the envelop for the past few months...in part because they have loyal fans and they have had GREAT press. However, they had to back down on threats over which language new apps use, due to the US DOJ looking into it. The DOJ is also looking into they fact that Apple has devised a system, that sets price, controls content and has great deal of say what MP3, smart phones etc. can use Itunes.

    Years ago, the DOJ, broke up the movie industry for the same reason, they controlled the contracts of the stars with contracts that ran up to a dozen years, they owned the movie theaters, set prices, controlled who was able to appear in what movie and what city. For example, Lena Horne was put in roles that could be edited out, for the south. Eventually, the DOJ broke up the way Hollywood worked.

    I think Apple is getting that kind of scrutiny, after all Apple tells the "record" companies, what they are willing to ALLOW something to be sold on Itunes, Apple controls what they songs or apps are used or listened to. Apple decides what Apps can be sold on the Itunes store....If Jobs is indignant now, he may find it more uncomfortable for not giving out free bumpers until the Iphone 4 is redesigned or replaced with the Iphone 5.

    Now I know there are lots of people who love the Iphone, many are very dear friends of mine. A number of them are attorney's and have said in the past few days, "Apple is looking for trouble with the DOJ or the states" or "Apple has become as arrogant as MS was years ago".

    You may love Apple, but truth be told Jobs is not GOD and Apple screwed themselves over this week. You don't have to look too hard to find article after article these past few weeks, saying, that Apple needs to deal with this before it becomes a major crisis. Or Apple is backing itself into a corner with how it decides what languages are used to write an app, (after all, Apple tried this because they discovered that it was way to easy to port apps written for the Iphone over to Android or webOS).

    I could care less if you want to make comments in the Palm section...Ironicly, I am helping apple fans....the more pressure that is brought against Apple, the more likely they are to continue to hand out bumpers after Sept 30th or redesign the Iphone 4 or shift to the Iphone 5 sooner....BTW if you go back and read many of my postings, I have been against the fact that Apple refuses to make a unit that cannot have a consumer replaceable battery...it doesn't matter to me, I do not have an Iphone...yet, I am not anti Apple, I did just buy my G/F a Ipod Nano 16 gen gen 5....which she loves.....however, she said to me, isn't odd that you cannot replace the battery yourself, (she din't know until then that Ipods, Ipads and Iphones do not replaceable batteries and she said "jerks").

    I am very glad you love the Iphone, but the level of vitriol b/c I think Apple is treating is customer base poorly is amazing.

    take care, Jay


    Apple Offers Free iPhone 4 Cases to Appease Users
    By REUTERS, Filed at 4:19 p.m. ET

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/...gewanted=print

    CUPERTINO, California (Reuters) - A defiant Steve Jobs on Friday rejected any suggestion that the iPhone 4's design was flawed, but offered consumers free phone cases to address reception complaints that have hurt Apple Inc's image and shares.

    At a rare, 90-minute press conference, the Apple chief executive asserted that reception issues were a problem shared by the entire smartphone industry, naming specifically rivals Research in Motion, Samsung Electronics and HTC Corp.

    Jobs maintained that there were no problems with the iPhone 4's wraparound antenna design and accused the media of trying to "tear down" a company that had grown so successful.

    After the June 28 launch of the iPhone 4, some users have reported drastically reduced signal strength when they held the touch-screen phone in a certain way, in what has come to be known as the "iPhone 4 death grip."

    Apple has lost more than $16 billion of its market value since then, with at least some of that attributed by analysts to the iPhone snafu.

    "This has been blown so out of proportion, it's incredible," Jobs, 55, told reporters and analysts in an auditorium at Apple's Silicon Valley headquarters.

    "This is life in the smartphone world. Phones aren't perfect. Most every smartphone we tested behaved like this," he said, referring to the controversy as "Antennagate."

    Shares of Apple climbed as much as 1.4 percent after Jobs offered the free case to users, but closed 0.62 percent lower at $249.90 in an overall market sell-off. Some analysts said they had expected more from Apple to address the issue, and thought that Jobs should have taken full responsibility.

    "Apple is held to a much higher standard. You don't want to compare yourself to the competition," said Ashok Kumar, an analyst with Rodman & Renshaw. "He did a disservice by comparing the Apple quality to Motorola and HTC."

    Others, however, lauded Jobs -- who apologized to users only after he was asked specifically if he was sorry -- for offering a free fix.

    Jobs said Apple will offer the free cases through September 30, when the company will reassess the situation. "Maybe we will continue it or maybe we will have a better idea," he said.

    If iPhone 4 users were not satisfied, Jobs said Apple will offer a full refund within a month.

    A CROCK?

    Jobs admitted that Apple and the phone were "not perfect" and said he first heard about issues with the wraparound antenna -- which some experts had hailed as an innovation -- 22 days ago. He called media reports that he had known about the issue before the June launch a "total crock."

    The high-margin iPhone is Apple's single most important product line and yields 40 percent of its revenue. The company is embarking on an ambitious push to drive iPhone growth in overseas markets [ID:nN07197833]. Jobs said Apple has sold well over 3 million units of the iPhone 4 in the three weeks since launch.

    "Jobs was a little bit defensive, and Apple has a tendency to do that," said Gartner analyst Van Baker. "I think they'll be criticized for that. But at the same time, the position that they outlined about their product relative to others is fair, and their offer is generous."

    But some shoppers who were interviewed by Reuters at an Apple store in New York were not impressed by the offer of a free case. "I probably wouldn't buy one still. It's expensive and the calling plan is restricted, and now the case is restricted," said one shopper, Nathaniel Johnson.

    Another shopper, Jason Slab, said, "The fix doesn't make much sense; it just seems cheap."

    In a Reuters online poll, 52 out of 92 respondents said Apple's offer of a free case was not the right response, and 49 out of 84 said the entire controversy made them less likely to pick one up.

    Analysts and communications experts say the "Antennagate" controversy was less about a flaw in the iPhone than Apple's tone-deaf response to it.

    Its first public statements advised consumers to hold the phone differently. Then, earlier this month, it blamed the problem on a software glitch that overstates signal strength.

    The controversy followed Apple's very nasty public spat with Adobe Systems Inc and the imposition of new restrictions on app developers, which many viewed as onerous.

    (Reporting by Gabriel Madway and Poornima Gupta; Writing by Edwin Chan and Tiffany Wu and Richard Chang)
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  6. ogeneo's Avatar
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       #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi,

    I have no idea if Palm knew or didn't know that the Pre had "the Oreo" problem.
    You have got to be kidding.... EVERYONE knew they had a problem and did nothing. Similar to how they are releasing 1.45 with a known issue? (yes, there is a homebrew fix, but not everyone hacks their own phone)


    In a Reuters online poll, 52 out of 92 respondents said Apple's offer of a free case was not the right response, and 49 out of 84 said the entire controversy made them less likely to pick one up.
    Silly... Apple has sold 3 MILLION iPhone 4's... another 35 of 84 buying iPhone 4's will be helpful. How many are buying a Pre or Pixi?
  7. #27  
    >>From what little I have read, there is a big question if Apple will either continue giving out cases or bumpers...which it should to start of with. >>

    Can you point to what you read that raised this question?

    Because the only I have read that addressed this was, when asked by a reporter, "what about after Sept. 30," he replied that they would evaluate where things are at and make a decision then.

    Which seems to me to be the right answer, vs. continue something -- now -- in perpetuity when there might be a better solution coming up (Recall, protective film, continue bumpers, different bumpers, etc. ad infinitum)

    So curious where you read that there is "big question" about this?
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by genearch View Post
    You are saying one thing and posting another. Typical Bullcrap.

    You posted two long articles that said nothing... how about reading the actual transcript of the Press conference?


    At the press conference Steve said the article was bull****...

    0:43 Q: Jobs were you told about the concerns about the design early?
    10:43 Jobs: Bloomberg article "is a total crock"
    10:44 Jobs says that they've charged Bloomberg to come up with evidence that this is true but they can't
    10:44 "Cetainly what was portrayed in that article never came across my conciousness... Rubin says it's total bull**** from his point of view too"



    10:53AM
    Q: On the September 30th date, is that to let people know that you'll have to buy a case?
    Steve: Not really, we'll reevaluate then. Maybe we'll have a better idea.

    11:25AM
    Q: Will the bumper offer extend outside of the US?
    A: Yes.
    Q: And beyond September 30th?
    A: We'll evaluate.
    Hi,

    I am very glad you love the Iphone, but the level of YOUR vitriol toward ME b/c I think Apple is treating is customer base poorly is amazing.

    No I did not read the transcript, I read about a dozen articles...all of which feel that Jobs had a lousy attitude today and that he was arrogant, had a hissy fit & was defiant.

    I am very happy you are please with your Iphone and love Apple...however, if you read my posting above on the 2nd page and think about it, I am actually doing Iphone 4 owners a favor...I think Apple is screwing the public by either not fixing the problem or giving out a free case. Since the 4 Palm smart phones I have owned each came with a case, Apple doesn't frankly have to be so cheap about something that is costing them peanuts.

    In order not to reprint my entire posting, please read it as well.

    I have no malice toward you, but you seem to have malice at anyone, who says anything negative about Apple or Jobs.

    Apple is under numerous DOJ investigations. Jobs dragged his feet all week, told his service people NOT to offer free bumpers. Apple has lost more than $16 billion of its market value since then, with at least some of that attributed by analysts to the Iphone snafu, (see NY times article below).

    Jobs needs to think of the customer and a little less of the bottom line......and you need to take a deep breath it is a phone not a person, not a life...big deal so I think Apple did a bad thing...you make it sound as if I ran a person down...relax, chill out, that is why there are lots of smart phones out there.

    BTW I don't have a Pre, so I didn't know there was an Oreo problem until after is was mostly resloved....however Palm was wrong too....

    I attacked how apple treats people, but you attacked me over an opinion of a phone...please show the same respect to me!

    take care, Jay

    PS while we are out it, I am disabled and asked Apple to work with the Library of Congress to make library of Congress' National Library format talking books work on the Ipod, (that program is only open to the disabled). In spite of the fact that I sent 4 copies of the 25 page letter to Apple, each with a return green card, so I know they got there. I also faxed a copy to them once a month for a year. They have yet to respond and that is over 2 years ago...they are not perfect, they do not seem to be interested in input fro the public.

    I also called over a dozen times, the wired telephone was invented over 110 years ago and mail way before that. If I am the one with the disabled hands and I can write and type, so can Apple employees. (The market for modified Ipods world wide for these programs is well over 20 million, surely worth Jobs employees time).

    Take care,

    Jay


    Apple Offers Free iPhone 4 Cases to Appease Users
    By REUTERS, July 16, 2010, Filed at 4:19 p.m. ET

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/...gewanted=print

    CUPERTINO, California (Reuters) - A defiant Steve Jobs on Friday rejected any suggestion that the iPhone 4's design was flawed, but offered consumers free phone cases to address reception complaints that have hurt Apple Inc's image and shares.

    At a rare, 90-minute press conference, the Apple chief executive asserted that reception issues were a problem shared by the entire smartphone industry, naming specifically rivals Research in Motion, Samsung Electronics and HTC Corp.

    Jobs maintained that there were no problems with the iPhone 4's wraparound antenna design and accused the media of trying to "tear down" a company that had grown so successful.

    After the June 28 launch of the iPhone 4, some users have reported drastically reduced signal strength when they held the touch-screen phone in a certain way, in what has come to be known as the "iPhone 4 death grip."

    Apple has lost more than $16 billion of its market value since then, with at least some of that attributed by analysts to the iPhone snafu.

    "This has been blown so out of proportion, it's incredible," Jobs, 55, told reporters and analysts in an auditorium at Apple's Silicon Valley headquarters.

    "This is life in the smartphone world. Phones aren't perfect. Most every smartphone we tested behaved like this," he said, referring to the controversy as "Antennagate."

    Shares of Apple climbed as much as 1.4 percent after Jobs offered the free case to users, but closed 0.62 percent lower at $249.90 in an overall market sell-off. Some analysts said they had expected more from Apple to address the issue, and thought that Jobs should have taken full responsibility.

    "Apple is held to a much higher standard. You don't want to compare yourself to the competition," said Ashok Kumar, an analyst with Rodman & Renshaw. "He did a disservice by comparing the Apple quality to Motorola and HTC."

    Others, however, lauded Jobs -- who apologized to users only after he was asked specifically if he was sorry -- for offering a free fix.

    Jobs said Apple will offer the free cases through September 30, when the company will reassess the situation. "Maybe we will continue it or maybe we will have a better idea," he said.

    If iPhone 4 users were not satisfied, Jobs said Apple will offer a full refund within a month.

    A CROCK?

    Jobs admitted that Apple and the phone were "not perfect" and said he first heard about issues with the wraparound antenna -- which some experts had hailed as an innovation -- 22 days ago. He called media reports that he had known about the issue before the June launch a "total crock."

    The high-margin iPhone is Apple's single most important product line and yields 40 percent of its revenue. The company is embarking on an ambitious push to drive iPhone growth in overseas markets [ID:nN07197833]. Jobs said Apple has sold well over 3 million units of the iPhone 4 in the three weeks since launch.

    "Jobs was a little bit defensive, and Apple has a tendency to do that," said Gartner analyst Van Baker. "I think they'll be criticized for that. But at the same time, the position that they outlined about their product relative to others is fair, and their offer is generous."

    But some shoppers who were interviewed by Reuters at an Apple store in New York were not impressed by the offer of a free case. "I probably wouldn't buy one still. It's expensive and the calling plan is restricted, and now the case is restricted," said one shopper, Nathaniel Johnson.

    Another shopper, Jason Slab, said, "The fix doesn't make much sense; it just seems cheap."

    In a Reuters online poll, 52 out of 92 respondents said Apple's offer of a free case was not the right response, and 49 out of 84 said the entire controversy made them less likely to pick one up.

    Analysts and communications experts say the "Antennagate" controversy was less about a flaw in the iPhone than Apple's tone-deaf response to it.

    Its first public statements advised consumers to hold the phone differently. Then, earlier this month, it blamed the problem on a software glitch that overstates signal strength.

    The controversy followed Apple's very nasty public spat with Adobe Systems Inc and the imposition of new restrictions on app developers, which many viewed as onerous.

    (Reporting by Gabriel Madway and Poornima Gupta; Writing by Edwin Chan and Tiffany Wu and Richard Chang)
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. ogeneo's Avatar
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       #29  
    So just so I understand... you are a "consumer advocate" here" and feel that the evil empire should do something else?

    It's simple... if you don't like Apple or the iPhone, or Steve Jobs, don't do business with them. They will get by without you. Let the lawyers do what they will. If you or anyone you know has an iPhone 4 and they are not happy, Apple & AT&T have offered full refunds.

    Apple is hugely successful in this market. That was outlined today with the "3 Million" sold statistic.

    You are doing yourself a disservice by taking the words of others on the press conference. Do yourself a favor and read the actual transcript instead of a 3rd party interpretation.
  10. ogeneo's Avatar
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       #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Apple has lost more than $16 billion of its market value since then, with at least some of that attributed by analysts to the iPhone snafu.
    I don't think Apple is overly worried. Also, wait until next weeks earnings

    Yeah.. that's HP in red since the Palm fans feel they are the mighty savior

  11. #31  
    Have we finally reached the source of your displeasure with Apple?

    >>PS while we are out it, I am disabled and asked Apple to work with the Library of Congress to make library of Congress' National Library format talking books work on the Ipod....In spite of the fact that I sent 4 copies of the 25 page letter to Apple, each with a return green card, so I know they got there. I also faxed a copy to them once a month for a year. >>



    You've been sending 25 page letters, unsolicited, about them taking on a new product -- never mind that you are not the only one sending product suggestions (though you may be the only one sending 25-page letters!) -- as well as faxing them every month, and they have the temerity to not respond??

    1. That's stalking. Sorry, but it is.

    2. They don't owe you anything. It would be nice for them to take on a new project/product, for you and other people with disabilities, but they are beholden to a BOD and shareholders, and are not a non-profit entity - your project costs time and money.

    They likely have a line item for foundations that the BOD have agreed to support and your pet project is not on it. You've made the suggestion, they've declined. And if those 25 page letters were written as verbosely as your posts, its likely they have no idea what you are asking.

    3. Seriously, you're stalking. Why not instead approach an entity who has skills in audio recording, in creating mp3s from the talking books, that can be downloaded to an iPod like every other audio file out there?
  12. #32  
    They hit it out of the park? They did what they had to do to save face. They're not offering to fix the problem, only to put a band-aid on a significant design flaw. At least they did something, I guess.
    What's amazing is the incredible fan base that Iphone has. Over three million defective units sold and no apparent plan to redesign. As long as the fans keep buying them...
    You don't think they're overly worried about losing $16 billion in value? I'd be inclined to think otherwise. (That's 16,000,000,000 dollars. In other words- a lot.)
    Last edited by steam601; 07/16/2010 at 06:52 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by genearch View Post
    You have got to be kidding.... EVERYONE knew they had a problem and did nothing. Similar to how they are releasing 1.45 with a known issue? (yes, there is a homebrew fix, but not everyone hacks their own phone)
    It is totally untrue to say they did nothing about the Oreo problem. Phones with serious oreo problems were replaced under warranty, and manufacturing changes were made to resolve the problem.

    If they had applied Apple's logic, they would have sent everyone with the problem a Palm branded rubber band to keep the phone from twisting.
  14. ogeneo's Avatar
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       #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by steam601 View Post
    They hit it out of the park? They did what they had to do to save face. They're not offering to fix the problem, only to put a band-aid on a significant design flaw. At least they did something, I guess.
    What's amazing is the incredible fan base that Iphone has. Over three million defective units sold and no apparent plan to redesign. As long as the fans keep buying them...
    You don't think they're overly worried about losing $16 billion in value? I'd be inclined to think otherwise. (That's 16,000,000,000 dollars. In other words- a lot.)
    It will not be relevant some next weeks earnings. That $16B will be made up and surpassed when they post record earnings and sales.
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