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  1. #61  
    Isn't that the report we have all been talking about?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Isn't that the report we have all been talking about?
    haha just read it...looks like the website just re posted the same article.

    So...still looking at this 1 bashing preview.
  3. bruba's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    True, and my opinion is InfoWorld is a joke - not to be taken seriously..
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruba View Post
    True, and my opinion is InfoWorld is a joke - not to be taken seriously..
    Microsoft probably hopes that everyone shares your opinion.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Right?

    Like for instance...when WebOS came out:
    -Very little apps
    - No copy and paste
    -No document editing support (still none!)
    -Many issues with the browser (alot better now)
    -audio player support is awful (still is)
    -Laggy UI (still is)


    And i'm sure others could add more. IMO, Windows phone 7 is in a better spot then WebOS was at launch. It looks really solid even with the missing features. The UI responsiveness is the first phone to match the iPhone's level of response in the videos i've seen...from scrolling to transitions. It looks really good.

    Seeing Engadget is typically super critical of MS, their preview gives me hope for the phone OS as the more the better.

    But to claim that MS should not even bother? That journalist needs his journalistic opinion revoked. Sounds more like trash talking.

    There's a difference between when a Palm Nokia RIM or Apple releases a system -- since they make (or made) both their own OSes and hardware -- and an OEM.

    Ready or not The Pre had to be released -- and was.

    But can you or anyone explain why an OEM -- any OEM -- will choose to PAY M$ for this unready OS that is not competitive to an existing FREE OS ???

    (I know what I write hard to understand given my accent -- but perhaps google translate might help)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Right?

    Like for instance...when WebOS came out:
    -Very little apps
    - No copy and paste
    -No document editing support (still none!)
    -Many issues with the browser (alot better now)
    -audio player support is awful (still is)
    -Laggy UI (still is)


    And i'm sure others could add more. IMO, Windows phone 7 is in a better spot then WebOS was at launch. It looks really solid even with the missing features. The UI responsiveness is the first phone to match the iPhone's level of response in the videos i've seen...from scrolling to transitions. It looks really good.
    One major advantage Windows phone 7 does have over WebOS is a decent set of developer tools prior to launch and a developer hardware program. That said plenty of WM developers are not going to be developing for the new platform (just as many PalmOS developers ignored WebOS).
  7. #67  
    I really like WP7. I think it really comes down to personal preference but I like the hub concept put in place. If palm had gone bankrupt and there was no hope for a new webos phone I saw myself most likely getting a wp7. It will be interesting to see this platform develop. Even if you don't like it, you can't deny that it is the most unique OS out there right now.
  8. #68  
    Hi all,

    There is an additional point to ponder.

    MS is one of the world's largest and richest companies...they have a great deal of talent to draw upon...yet they did not develop the idea of an MP3 players and came late to the game...they were late to the game with the original WIN smart phone software.

    Frankly, this software and the time they wasted on KIN are both way to little, way to late!

    They have access to huge amounts of R & D $ and yet, they aren't one or two in cell phone software or MP3 players.

    I am surprised they didn't make a move to buy Palm, not now, but years ago, when Palm was leader in the field! Even then the amount Palm would have been worth, is a drop in the bucket for a firm the size of MS!

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. bruba's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    But can you or anyone explain why an OEM -- any OEM -- will choose to PAY M$ for this unready OS that is not competitive to an existing FREE OS ???
    They will pay M$ (DOLLAR SIGN 1995-LOOOOOL ) just like they're still paying them for WM6.5 right now. Because it will make them money.

    Let's say an Android phone by SE is $550. They can potentially sell 1m units. But there are a lot of Android phones out there and they want to create another phone with another consumer in mind. One who wants Office, Xbox and Zune. They'll produce another phone with the same components. Microsoft charges a $10 WP7 license fee per unit. So they'll just charge $560 (instead of $550 for the Android phone) and can potentially sell another 1m units.

    Keep in mind there are a lot of other costs. The SE Android skin, for example..

    The same could be said for Google. Their investors are getting uneasy about giving Android away for free. They're not making (a lot of) money on mobile search yet..
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    There's a difference between when a Palm Nokia RIM or Apple releases a system -- since they make (or made) both their own OSes and hardware -- and an OEM.

    Ready or not The Pre had to be released -- and was.

    But can you or anyone explain why an OEM -- any OEM -- will choose to PAY M$ for this unready OS that is not competitive to an existing FREE OS ???

    (I know what I write hard to understand given my accent -- but perhaps google translate might help)
    Well seeing that MS already has hardware manufactures lining up with planned devices, i think they'll be fine.

    here's the thing...companies want to capture all markets. The chances of Windows Phone 7 to be a complete failure are very very minor....MS has the money and partnerships to be competitive in the space (hell windows mobile 6.5 is still beating WebOS).

    Manufacturers know this and don't want to be left out of the space....who know what is costs to license the OS but you get a strong difference. There is no skinning of the UI in WinMo 7. HTC doesn't have to waste their time making their own custom skin on the OS and making sure everything works. One would argue that the development of skins is arguable more expensive then a one time fee for each device sold. (seeing each device sold also brings in money).

    They can just make sure their phone works with the software which given the spec requirements given by MS should be no issue.

    I think the bigger challenge for MS is getting worthwhile apps on the device but they have already shown some impressive stuff and Silverlight is a robust and relatively easy development environment.
    Examples:



    Or even the fact their ad program is looking to be just as, or more robust then the iPhone/Android:



    So again i echo how can a journalist say this is doomed for failure when in all honesty, is more put together in many ways than WebOS now? Unless WebOS is doomed for failure (i personally don't think so).
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by bruba View Post
    They will pay M$ (DOLLAR SIGN 1995-LOOOOOL ) just like they're still paying them for WM6.5 right now. Because it will make them money.

    Let's say an Android phone by SE is $550. They can potentially sell 1m units. But there are a lot of Android phones out there and they want to create another phone with another consumer in mind. One who wants Office, Xbox and Zune. They'll produce another phone with the same components. Microsoft charges a $10 WP7 license fee per unit. So they'll just charge $560 (instead of $550 for the Android phone) and can potentially sell another 1m units.

    Keep in mind there are a lot of other costs. The SE Android skin, for example..

    The same could be said for Google. Their investors are getting uneasy about giving Android away for free. They're not making (a lot of) money on mobile search yet..
    I don't know of any WM 6.5 phones being produced now -- but maybe I'm wrong.

    I can't be precise on this but my recollection is that Google committed to giving Android away free, and making it open source etc. Google often is motivated by objectives that are not immediately understood by investors looking much shorter term.

    My original critique regarding Win7 has not really been addressed -- it is not in its existing form ready:

    not in Office or anywhere else can you cut and paste; its browser has no Flash, no HTML5, not even Silverlight; it can't multitask; its current XBOX integration is useless; there is no user filtering of Facebook contacts; there is no user filtering of a users own contacts or data; etc etc.

    In its current form Win7 is nothing more than a beta demo.

    WHY will an OEM pay to market this when Android exists, is better, and is FREE ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #72  
    One thing I really dislike about this OS (and the Zune too) is the way it displays the title of the screen or app. The letters are too big and it runs off the screen. For example, the Associated News app shows as Associat. It drives me crazy.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Well seeing that MS already has hardware manufactures lining up with planned devices, i think they'll be fine.

    here's the thing...companies want to capture all markets. The chances of Windows Phone 7 to be a complete failure are very very minor....MS has the money and partnerships to be competitive in the space (hell windows mobile 6.5 is still beating WebOS).

    Manufacturers know this and don't want to be left out of the space....who know what is costs to license the OS but you get a strong difference. There is no skinning of the UI in WinMo 7. HTC doesn't have to waste their time making their own custom skin on the OS and making sure everything works. One would argue that the development of skins is arguable more expensive then a one time fee for each device sold. (seeing each device sold also brings in money).

    They can just make sure their phone works with the software which given the spec requirements given by MS should be no issue.

    I think the bigger challenge for MS is getting worthwhile apps on the device but they have already shown some impressive stuff and Silverlight is a robust and relatively easy development environment.
    Examples:



    Or even the fact their ad program is looking to be just as, or more robust then the iPhone/Android:



    So again i echo how can a journalist say this is doomed for failure when in all honesty, is more put together in many ways than WebOS now? Unless WebOS is doomed for failure (i personally don't think so).
    maybe what you say is true -- maybe its easy to create Apps for, maybe there's an existing audience hungry for Win7, maybe its cheaper to pay for the OS than to create their own differentiating skin ...

    But to paraphrase Stalin -- (and has been proven by both Windows and Office) -- sometimes quantity has a quality all its own.

    The existing user base of iOS and Android is in and of itself a compelling reason to write Apps for them.

    More and better Apps, more users.

    More users -- more evangelists to get others to become users.

    More users -- more advocates within companies to get IT depts to support that platform.

    One of the most telling aspects of that article was how badly attended and disinterested everyone was at M$'s developer forum.

    Forget OEMs -- why will developers aside from Netflix (who develops for everything) waste money and time on something this speculative ??

    Given their current track record (Kin, Plays For Sure, etc. etc) what confidence will developers and OEMs have that this OS project will not be another abortion ???

    Good FREE, trumps bad $$
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Except for multitasking isn't that what Palm did?
    Yeah.

    In June of 2009.

    How many mobile OSes had a good multitasking implementation, copy and paste, and the ability to write apps in native code in June of 2009? Hint: Zero.

    It's a different world now, and will be even more different by the time WP7 hits shelves. BlackberryOS 6 will be out, WebOS 1.5 will be out, Gingerbread will be out or on the verge of being out, iOS 4 is already out.

    Without copy and paste, multitasking and native apps, WP7 will be hard pressed to even call itself a smartphone OS. Many feature phones offer an approximately equal feature set at a quarter of the price.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    One thing I really dislike about this OS (and the Zune too) is the way it displays the title of the screen or app. The letters are too big and it runs off the screen. For example, the Associated News app shows as Associat. It drives me crazy.
    That's a 'feature'. It's supposed to indicate to the user that's there's additional information that they need to scroll to in order to see it. However - like a bad joke - if you have to explain it, it's not very effective is it?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post

    Manufacturers know this and don't want to be left out of the space....who know what is costs to license the OS but you get a strong difference. There is no skinning of the UI in WinMo 7. HTC doesn't have to waste their time making their own custom skin on the OS and making sure everything works. One would argue that the development of skins is arguable more expensive then a one time fee for each device sold. (seeing each device sold also brings in money).
    Clearly you don't understand HTC's strategy.

    Sense is not something they have to "waste their time" doing. They could easily release a phone with the stock Android UI. They have spent a lot of time and energy developing Sense in order to develop their brand and differentiate their phones from the competition despite running the same OS. Not being able to use Sense will be a frustration for HTC, not something they're happy about.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguychicago View Post
    That's a 'feature'. It's supposed to indicate to the user that's there's additional information that they need to scroll to in order to see it. However - like a bad joke - if you have to explain it, it's not very effective is it?
    I hate it.

    For some strange reason I am kind of rooting for MS here. The more options we have the better. I still cant believe they are releasing this thing with out copy/paste, multitasking, and html5.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Clearly you don't understand HTC's strategy.

    Sense is not something they have to "waste their time" doing. They could easily release a phone with the stock Android UI. They have spent a lot of time and energy developing Sense in order to develop their brand and differentiate their phones from the competition despite running the same OS. Not being able to use Sense will be a frustration for HTC, not something they're happy about.
    Perhaps you don't understand HTC's strtegy?

    They are already signed on to make a Windows 7 Phone whose rumored specs are better than any android phone out now.


    Why is that? HTC made Touch Flo to pretty up the aging Windows 6.5. HTC made Sense for android to pretty up what most consider ugly and clunky stock android and so they can attract more people.

    MS metro UI is brilliant looking...there is legit no need to throw some kind of UI on it....in fact, it just wouldn't make sense without changing how the design functions.

    Those writing off Windows Phone 7 at this point are simply not being realistic. I want to see what those people say when Winows Phone 7 all of a sudden grabs a larger market share than WebOS. Why do i think that will happen? Cause Microsoft to me has shown more potential already then WebOS.

    Why would people pay to use it? To be the manufacture to make the "go to" WIndows Phone 7 experience. Will Windows Phone 7 take off? Hard to say...but its future to me looks good.


    ...and to note ,i'm leaving WebOS for Android so i'm not even a short term customer for Windows Phone...its just the way i view it based on how this phone industry has been going.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I hate it.

    For some strange reason I am kind of rooting for MS here. The more options we have the better. I still cant believe they are releasing this thing with out copy/paste, multitasking, and html5.
    Question...why do they need HTML 5 at launch?

    iPhone already proved you don't need multi-tasking and they have said in interviews they want to make sure optimize 3rd party multi-tasking before just giving it to consumers....they are also working on copy and paste.

    The issue is they have to give manufacturers a gold copy of the OS at some point so you stop adding features an work on them after your product ships.

    Believe or not...to many many many smart phone consumers...multi-tasking an copy and paste aren't must have features. But its not like its never coming.

    And again i draw back to most of us picking up the Pre last year...no video recording or real copy and paste. Yet we sat and made excuses for Palm.

    "its a new OS give it time."

    Yet, it seems some people here are quick to point out the same flaws that plagued the Pre as issues here. Even though the Pre's copy & paste is still flawed in the browser.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    ...I still cant believe they are releasing this thing with out copy/paste, multitasking, and html5.
    glad to see that you are in agreement on this
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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