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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    At the risk of thread-jacking my own thread, how did you do that "please wait..." thing in your sig? That is awesome.

    Back on topic...

    That may explain why new people are not interested in Palm at the moment, but it does not address the satisfaction rating of current Palm users.
    What please wait? Ha ha ha..... animations are cool.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    @LCGuy

    You are so farrrrr from the truth. HP is gunna read this thread and decide to pack up camp and go home. They can't possibly do any better. I think its time I give in and go set up an account at tipb. I hear theres some android fans over there that could use a good lesson in the benefits of a tightly controlled platform.
    voodoochild;

    Im sorry if anything I wrote upset you

    REmember, its not about being "better", but, rather different.. as smartphone users mature and become mor eknowledgable on wha tthey need versus want.. what works best, and what doesnt - we arent there right now.. most iPhone users arent tech savy in the slightest..

    Moverover, you need to remember that this industry has even begun to be penetrated worldwide, yet. There is a huge market for all who enter now - HP is very interested in that, and WILL be a part of it - they are the second largest tech company in their sector (305,000 employees), to IBM who has 410,000 employees - (apple has 34,000 employees) - you beter believe they have the will, the IP and the manpower to be a major part of it.

    So, stay tuned! (pardon the pun)

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    I can see why they would never be dissatisfied with their phones. The rest of us are thinkers...
    You really want to go with that response? Is that your final answer? iPhone users = mindless drones, while everyone else = thinkers. Good luck with that.

    As for this nonsense about Apple adding features that they once said was unimportant, it seems they have been proven right the vast majority of the time. Take the MMS straw-man. The only reason MMS was invented was to give dumb-phone users a way to send media back and forth. The iPhone had a fully integrated email client that handled that task well. After they finally put it in the OS, no one used it. MMS was never an issue that iPhone users cared about, before or after they put it in.

    Another example would be copy and paste. It took them three generations to put that feature in there. During that time, they never missed one sale because of the lack of copy paste. When they finally did put it in, it really was a better implementation. Now, other companies are copying Apple's implementation. They must have done something right. It is a nice feature, but not crucial.

    Flash, HDMI out, video out for the interface, and most any other missing feature you can think of were never complaints from iPhone users. They were only ever straw-men set up by the anti-Apple crowd to find some weakness in the iPhone armor.

    This is one of the keys to understanding why iPhone users are so satisfied with their device of choice. This is also true for other iOS devices. Apple is very good at getting a feel for exactly what people want in their mobile device experience and what they don't. Android manufacturers think that if there is a blank spot on the motherboard, they should fill it up with something. If there is not enough room, make it bigger. If there is a feature that some geek in his mother's basement might like, slap it in there.

    Apple has never played that game. Apple has a laser beam focus on what is important to their core audience. Other companies are so busy reacting, all they can think of is what they think Apple forgot to put in there. Apple didn't forget. They just deemed it unnecessary for the experience they were going for. The market has proven them right time and again.

    That is why iPhone customers have such a high satisfaction rate. The iPhone does exactly what it should do for the intended audience, and is not overly cluttered with things that don't matter, or that would detract from a core experience. They are a lot like Nintendo. That is another company that leaves the geeks flummoxed, but keeps their target market very happy, and expanding.
  4. #24  
    @dandbj13, very good points. Well stated. Thanks.
  5. #25  
    @dandbj13 they don't think their customers would want a particular option but later on they put that option in. Does that even make sense to you?

    Also, when did we decide that a company should dictate what experience I should have with a product I paid so much money to own. I thought most companies would want to provide as many reasonable options because maybe we all don't think the exact same way. What I find to be an important feature might not be an important feature to you.

    Read your own post and you will see why an iphone user such as yourself would never be dissatisfied. If a feature isn't present in the iphone well its for the best according your view. How could you be dissatisfied with that line of reasoning? Look through these forums and you will see almost every member pointing out limitations and things they want remedied in webOS. Not because it is an inferior product but because each person has personal preferences and wants certain options that they feel is necessary for them to get the best experience out of their phone.

    I asked this my last post and Ill ask it again. If your intent of your OP was to find solutions to get the satisfaction of Palm owners higher what are your suggestions to attain that? Otherwise, I would surmise you are simply here to advocate for a particular mobile OS.
  6. #26  
    1. A thin, sleek looking slab. Has to feel high end. It's all the rage to buy something that looks pretty even if most then throw a cheap plastic case on it after using suran wrap on the screen.

    2. WebOS needs some loving. Multitasking & synergy do rock...but the rest blows. HP needs to take charge of those core apps (the usual, email, sms, media player, etc) and flesh em out. No more relying on users to find better 3rd party alternatives. This may work for some but it's a recipe for disaster targeting average consumers who can't find their way out of a paper bag and are too lazy to even try if even shown the way.

    3. 720p screen support and at least 3.5"-4" screen. The screen has to rock.

    4. No more palm profile for contacts. This all needs to be made easier for consumers. A smartphone should pull in info meaning you shouldn't ever lose info. But if they keep it, then go all in with it and offer some type of service like mobileme.

    5. Big name 3rd party apps. Even if HP has to pay through the nose to get them. Any app store needs these. Partner with someone to get media and provide easy ways to sync it to desktop. Ecosystem type stuff. Car mounts, integrate touchstones, etc.

    6. This kinda ties in with number two. But don't add half baked features just because you can. A 12mp camera on a phone will suck. A front facing camera is useless if people can't figure it out. Palm has to understand its market better and pretend they're designing for 6 year olds. It needs to be simple to use.

    7. Aggressive marketing. And as few brands as possible. Don't have a Samsung moment and decide to release 4 different phones with as many different names. Who knows what HTC will release next but its sure to have a different name as well. Apple makes a living just marketing the iphone. But please, no more names like the Pre or Pixi.
    I just copied something i wrote a week or so ago in a different thread. But since we're talking about what Palm could do to raise those satisfaction numbers...

    I think we all have an idea of what a set of standard smartphone features should be. Someone was asking why apple waited so long to include some. Apple operates on their time with updates being marketing driven. Some think they wait to make sure they're well implemented. I think its a little of both. One could almost imagine what iOS 5 will have...better notifications, hotspot app, voice search, free navigation app? Anyone think apple has a board with planned features for the next few years on it designed to sell phones?

    The trick of it is, can mainstream users use said feature? I think Apple nailed copy n paste and did the same for Facetime.

    But that's not entirely true for every feature apple puts in. I don't think much of their multitasking for instance. True, it'll do the trick in a lot of cases and results in better battery life, but its far from a consistent experience and relies too much on 3rd party devs to implement. Apple doesn't have much control over this experience which i suppose they could have but it would involve a lot of app rejections. But for mainstreamers, i guess it does the trick for them.

    If HP can dumb it down, develop a brand or two, and target the knuckleheads while still keeping it open for the advance users to play around with, then that will work.
    Last edited by cardfan; 07/14/2010 at 07:36 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    voodoochild;

    Im sorry if anything I wrote upset you

    REmember, its not about being "better", but, rather different.. as smartphone users mature and become mor eknowledgable on wha tthey need versus want.. what works best, and what doesnt - we arent there right now.. most iPhone users arent tech savy in the slightest..

    Moverover, you need to remember that this industry has even begun to be penetrated worldwide, yet. There is a huge market for all who enter now - HP is very interested in that, and WILL be a part of it - they are the second largest tech company in their sector (305,000 employees), to IBM who has 410,000 employees - (apple has 34,000 employees) - you beter believe they have the will, the IP and the manpower to be a major part of it.

    So, stay tuned! (pardon the pun)

    Something similar was said when Microsoft introduced the Zune. But, look at their end results trying to go against the iPod line.

    Just because HP is big does not guarantee they are going to be a major part of the smartphone market.

    Nokia has a ton more experience in the smart phone market than HP and look how they struggle against the iPhone in the smart phone market.

    Citing competition, Nokia slashes profit view - MarketWatch

    You think HP is gong to just magically do better with some new WebOS device? That's some over the top serious wishful thinking.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    apparently the took the entire survey at a convention for left handed people?
    LMAO
  9. #29  
    It will be interesting to see what the July poll results are after all of these bad reviews of the iphone 4 with it's antenna issues.
  10. Balzak's Avatar
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    #30  
    I love my Pre. Its a great smart phone that does what I want it to and then some. But when all said and done its just a phone that fills some of my needs. The iPhone is different in my opinion... to some iPhone users the phone defines their existence. Its cool, its new, its Apple.

    I honestly believe that many of the iPhone 4 users would settle for the faulty phone because to return it or complain about it would be an attack on their own marketing fed self image. The false sense of enlightenment my Apple packing friend believe they have is comical.

    I also think that Apple could sell an iPoop and people would stand in line to buy it. Is a phone, an accessory to your life not part of you existence. Obvioulsy we Palm users are "enlightened" because we didnt fall for the "Creepy Chick" and "House-wife" marketing. I bought it because its a kick *** phone.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    I asked this my last post and Ill ask it again. If your intent of your OP was to find solutions to get the satisfaction of Palm owners higher what are your suggestions to attain that?
    I don't like quoting myself, so I will just refer you to my last post. To restate it more succinctly, Palm needs to spend as much time thinking about what should be left out as they do about what they put in. They need to have the courage to eliminate things that do not advance the core functionality for their core audience. They actually need to define core functionality instead of just going the Android rout of throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. That only creates user confusion and diminishes usability, battery life, etc. It takes courage and vision to do that, but it makes for a better overall experience in the end. Just ask all those hordes of mindless iPhone users who don't even notice a lack of Flash.

    You say you want all the options and bells and whistles so that you can decide for yourself what's important to you. That type of idealism does not work in the real world. Cell phones have extremely fine tolerances. They are marvels of engineering. They can't be done well with every available option thrown in. There has to be certain compromises and hard choices to produce one of these products. It takes a lot more vision and focus to make a good mobile device than it does to make a full sized computer.

    People understand that and appreciate a company that makes careful decisions about these things. That is, in part, why iPhone users are so satisfied with their purchase. It does a narrow set of things better than anything else. And look at how that narrow set of features has worked out. It has produced the best display on a mobile device, the best camera with HD recording and a brilliant way of auto focusing. It has produced the best mobile keyboard, the best mobile web browsing experience, the best mobile gaming experience, the best accessibility features of any mobile device. It has enabled more functionality with its "narrow" set of functions to more people than any other smartphone in history. Oh, and by the way, its "closed" app system has produced more, better, cheaper easily downloadable and installable third party apps that anything that has come before it. Not bad for a narrow, closed, restrictive product that only mindless automatons would enjoy.

    But, hey, at least you've got your "freedom". How's that working out for you. Perhaps you could be a little less bitter about the iPhone's success, and a little less dismissive of it satisfied user base which is growing daily, and a lot more constructive about ways the next Palm device can benefit from lessons learned.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Something similar was said when Microsoft introduced the Zune. But, look at their end results trying to go against the iPod line.

    Just because HP is big does not guarantee they are going to be a major part of the smartphone market.

    Nokia has a ton more experience in the smart phone market than HP and look how they struggle against the iPhone in the smart phone market.

    Citing competition, Nokia slashes profit view - MarketWatch

    You think HP is gong to just magically do better with some new WebOS device? That's some over the top serious wishful thinking.
    So you think that nobody should try to compete with apple, based on the fact that ms tried with zune, and hasn't had major success???

    Being a fan of technology first, and any company second, I am a firm believer in the thought that more competition=better.

    And nokia is a bit of a weak example imo. They have a completely different target than apple. Right now nokias main focus is on emerging markets, such as India. They are producing products at a relatively low cost and selling them for a much smaller profit margin that apple does. Apple is completely on the opposite end of the spectrum, selling a "luxury brand" similar to BMW.

    Not to mention Nokia is a foreign company, and has always been more popular on their own turf, even if their popularity is dwindling. The fact that the market share graphs look so different from European and Asian users to American shows that they have different tastes in different parts of the world than we do here. Pretty hard to imagine, huh?

    Hp on the other hand, is an American based company, and is much more in tune with the American consumer than Nokia would be. In this post I will make no statement on how well I think hp will do overall, my point was just to show the flaw in your ms/nokia arguments. But why don't we just let hp actually release a product or two before we go assuming its gunna suck. Is that not fair?
  13. #33  
    I've been a happy iPhone user for 3+ years now. I've also kept a very close eye on WebOS because I honestly believe it's nicer to use than iOS. I bought the iPhone 4. I loved it but it went to Edge (AT&T's version of 1xRTT) in my office at work, wreaking havoc with my computer speakers and my telephone. No dice, returned it.

    Since I remembered liking the Pre, and I always heard such good things about Verizon, I decided to give them a spin for 30 days. There is no way I'm going Android. I'm a computer nerd by trade and even *I* find Android too clunky and complicated. The apps are plentiful but unrefined in my opinion.

    But as these 30 days wear on I'm starting to find little things that threaten to slowly drive me back towards my iPhone. Like auto-focus and macro in the camera. Like voice search and voice dialing. Like on my way to work, being able to download the Car Talk podcast, listen to it, pause it, and come back to it at the same place where I left off when I head home after work. Like firing up Shazam when I hear a great song, being able to tap a button and have the artist, track, album, lyrics, and relevant Wikipedia entry.

    When it boils down to it, few consumers really care about their device being open and/or software freedom. Why do you think so few people use Ubuntu? For most people it's sufficient for their uses, it's free and open, and in many ways safer and better than Windows.

    But can they fire off a mail merge whilst barely giving it a thought? Does OpenOffice.org have a wizard for that that your mom could figure out? Nope.

    -n8
    --------------------------------
    Love hate since launch day.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Something similar was said when Microsoft introduced the Zune. But, look at their end results trying to go against the iPod line.

    Just because HP is big does not guarantee they are going to be a major part of the smartphone market.

    Nokia has a ton more experience in the smart phone market than HP and look how they struggle against the iPhone in the smart phone market.

    Citing competition, Nokia slashes profit view - MarketWatch

    You think HP is gong to just magically do better with some new WebOS device? That's some over the top serious wishful thinking.
    SoFly;

    Nokia isnt PALM. Nokia has phone experience, but failed smartphone experience. Palm has 8+ years of Treo and Centro success behind them, and WebOS in front of them, now forming the foundation of HP's smartphone diviision.

    If anyone can compete with the iPhone, the DEEP pockets and superior experience PALM has, with their extensive IP has the best chance of it, as I see it.

    It aint "magic", SoFly, its good, analytical thinking, with some potential thrown in there for good measure.

    And, while all of us Pre and Pixi users are certainly guilty of wishful thinking, as I am sure you are with your "almost smart" phone iPhone 4, that has nothing to do with my prognostication above - HP has been around WAY longer than any tech company today, except for IBM and GE (if you want to call GE a tech company.. not too sure about that).. they have persevered through more fads and transitions and technnological booms than most companies today, and are still here, at the top of the heap, making a ton of money, and enjoying success at most of what they compete in.

    I say that their intertia speaks volumes for thier potential.

    That's my opinion, and I stand by it.

    You know, I wish Apple continued success.. but they need competition, serious competition.. and I believe HP and Palm will provide it.. in my eyes, they do have the right combinations of creativity, experience, IP and financial resources.

    You, on the other hand, seem intent on criticizing PALM and anything attached to it, or any path they take.. which is sad. Competition makes everyone better, and all consumers benefit.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Balzak View Post
    I love my Pre. Its a great smart phone that does what I want it to and then some. But when all said and done its just a phone that fills some of my needs. The iPhone is different in my opinion... to some iPhone users the phone defines their existence. Its cool, its new, its Apple.

    I honestly believe that many of the iPhone 4 users would settle for the faulty phone because to return it or complain about it would be an attack on their own marketing fed self image. The false sense of enlightenment my Apple packing friend believe they have is comical.

    I also think that Apple could sell an iPoop and people would stand in line to buy it. Is a phone, an accessory to your life not part of you existence. Obvioulsy we Palm users are "enlightened" because we didnt fall for the "Creepy Chick" and "House-wife" marketing. I bought it because its a kick *** phone.
    right on!
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    SoFly;

    Nokia isnt PALM. Nokia has phone experience, but failed smartphone experience. Palm has 8+ years of Treo and Centro success behind them, and WebOS in front of them, now forming the foundation of HP's smartphone diviision.

    If anyone can compete with the iPhone, the DEEP pockets and superior experience PALM has, with their extensive IP has the best chance of it, as I see it.

    It aint "magic", SoFly, its good, analytical thinking, with some potential thrown in there for good measure.

    And, while all of us Pre and Pixi users are certainly guilty of wishful thinking, as I am sure you are with your "almost smart" phone iPhone 4, that has nothing to do with my prognostication above - HP has been around WAY longer than any tech company today, except for IBM and GE (if you want to call GE a tech company.. not too sure about that).. they have persevered through more fads and transitions and technnological booms than most companies today, and are still here, at the top of the heap, making a ton of money, and enjoying success at most of what they compete in.

    I say that their intertia speaks volumes for thier potential.

    That's my opinion, and I stand by it.

    You know, I wish Apple continued success.. but they need competition, serious competition.. and I believe HP and Palm will provide it.. in my eyes, they do have the right combinations of creativity, experience, IP and financial resources.

    You, on the other hand, seem intent on criticizing PALM and anything attached to it, or any path they take.. which is sad. Competition makes everyone better, and all consumers benefit.

    I agree 100 %. This is exactly how i feel about HP Palm Potential... and Apple's need for competition. The next webOS phone does not need to be an "iphone killer", .....it needs to be an awesome webOS phone.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by natrixgli View Post
    I like the Pre a lot but it's brilliant OS can only go so far to compensate for it's aging hardware. The Pre was pretty dated even when it first launched. Aside from the appearance and the touchstone, much lesser phones were coming out with vastly superior hardware features.
    Yes, its hardware is dated now, though of course all of this overclock stuff helps that out a ton.

    But to say that it was dated when it launched is idiotic. The Pre was the first phone to use a Cortex A8. Hardware-wise, it was a giant leap ahead of everything else. Of course, the problem is they haven't moved much further than that since. It's the same problem Apple faced until the launch of the iPhone 4. With so many others making Android phones, and pushing them out at the pace they do, what's top-of-the-line hardware on release is dated 3 months later.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The Pre was the first phone to use a Cortex A8. Hardware-wise, it was a giant leap ahead of everything else.
    Hence, another key to understanding iPhone satisfaction. I'm a pretty advance user and I have no idea what processor powers the iPhone, never have, never cared. Whatever the Pre had in it, it wasn't up to the performance of the iPhone 3GS, let alone, the iPhone 4. There is more to the experience than some random HW spec. Apple tends to tune the software to take full advantage of the HW, whatever it may be. That is why, on paper, the iPad should be easy to out perform, and many will try by throwing faster HW in their versions of it. Did you know that the iPad has only 256 MB of ram? Yet it is screaming fast. How is that possible with such "weak" HW?

    Spec-whoring is for geeks and wannabes who can't match the experience with well designed software refinement. It only brings spec envy and dissatisfaction, as there will always be someone just around the corner who will one-up you with a better spec. If companies want to increase satisfaction with their products, they have to focus on the overall experience and not on the hot spec of the day.
  19. PreBro132's Avatar
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    #39  
    Haha, Palm...bottom of the heap.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Hence, another key to understanding iPhone satisfaction. I'm a pretty advance user and I have no idea what processor powers the iPhone, never have, never cared. Whatever the Pre had in it, it wasn't up to the performance of the iPhone 3GS, let alone, the iPhone 4. There is more to the experience than some random HW spec. Apple tends to tune the software to take full advantage of the HW, whatever it may be. That is why, on paper, the iPad should be easy to out perform, and many will try by throwing faster HW in their versions of it. Did you know that the iPad has only 256 MB of ram? Yet it is screaming fast. How is that possible with such "weak" HW?

    Spec-whoring is for geeks and wannabes who can't match the experience with well designed software refinement. It only brings spec envy and dissatisfaction, as there will always be someone just around the corner who will one-up you with a better spec. If companies want to increase satisfaction with their products, they have to focus on the overall experience and not on the hot spec of the day.
    Uh, no? The iPad is "screaming fast" because it uses a mobile OS designed for a phone. Granted, it was WELL-designed for that phone and scales well to a 9.7-inch screen using that same processor architecture, but having the iPad be "screaming fast" is a slam dunk. Once you get past games and video, you begin to see how limited it is compared to a capable notebook or higher-end netbook. Those limits go hand-in-hand with the speed.

    Also, you kinda have a bizarre take when you say "Whatever the Pre had in it, it wasn't up to the performance of the iPhone 3GS, let alone, the iPhone 4".

    The Pre had pretty much exactly what the iPhone 3GS had in it. The hardware is not the bottleneck. The unfinished, beta-state WebOS is the bottleneck, and that's something that Palm just wasn't capable of correcting as an independent company with scarce resources and even scarcer sales.

    I think Palm ultimately did design a lot of user experience things that surpassed iPhone and still do, which is why there are so many passionate and dedicated WebOS users here. But their execution of some of this tweaks just wasn't up-to-spec, and that's why they weren't successful with the Pre or the Pixi.
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