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  1.    #1  
    I own a Palm Pre and an iPad. I don't hate a brand based on simple, blind loyalty. I judge a manufacturer or product based on its actions or functionality.

    So, I am getting very tired of the Apple apologists and Kool-Aid drinkers who casually excuse or flat-out refuse to acknowledge the obvious and significant flaws of this new iPhone*. It is frustrating as hell, hearing this from incredibly smart people like Andy Ihnatko and certain commenters on the TiPb blog.

    People who paid hundreds of dollars and/or signed a two-year contract to buy this phone ought to be able to complain without being told to "Get over it," or to pay MORE money for an overpriced bumper that protects NOTHING but the perimeter of the device...all due to a poor antenna design.

    It's awesome that it has a great camera, can edit video, and folds your laundry, but if you can't hold it, naturally, while making a call, then it's all "smart" and no "phone."




    * - kinda like certain Palm loyalists wouldn't acknowledge some of the flaws in the Pre, a year ago
    Last edited by west3man; 07/14/2010 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Fixing iPad autocorrect errors
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  2. ogeneo's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'm no apologist and there is pretty good data supporting a problem.

    That said, I personally have not had any issues. Perhaps the bumper I bought day 1 to protect the phone? Possibly, but it is funny to see the Palm loyalists foaming at the mouth to post any negative Apple news.

    I'd buy this phone again in a heartbeat. Light years ahead of my Palm Pre Plus in build, and don't get me started on the apps.. So many of my real world app requirements have been met with the iPhone, things the Pre couldn't touch.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by genearch View Post
    I'm no apologist and there is pretty good data supporting a problem.

    That said, I personally have not had any issues. Perhaps the bumper I bought day 1 to protect the phone? Possibly, but it is funny to see the Palm loyalists foaming at the mouth to post any negative Apple news.

    I'd buy this phone again in a heartbeat. Light years ahead of my Palm Pre Plus in build, and don't get me started on the apps.. So many of my real world app requirements have been met with the iPhone, things the Pre couldn't touch.
    If you bought the bumper, it's little surprise that you've not experienced this antenna issue.

    What else does that bumper do, btw? What made it worthwhile for you, since you apparently didn't buy it because of the exposed iPhone 4 antenna.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  4. ogeneo's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    If you bought the bumper, it's little surprise that you've not experienced this antenna issue.

    What else does that bumper do, btw? What made it worthwhile for you, since you apparently didn't buy it because of the exposed iPhone 4 antenna.
    I was a little concerned about dropping it. The metal sides seemed a bit slick.

    I'm sure the cost of making the bumper is nil for apple, but it's more than a simple silicone wrap. It's pretty well built with little metal buttons in the bumper.
  5. #5  
    SILICONE GEL + HOLE PUNCHER = BETTER PROTECTION FOR iPhone
  6. ogeneo's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    SILICONE GEL + HOLE PUNCHER = BETTER PROTECTION FOR iPhone
    Perhaps, but the apple bumper is not simple silicone. Soft rubber, hard rubber and metal buttons.
  7. #7  
    iPhone4Petition
    i didnt want to be THAT guy ... so anyone want to like a facebook Group full of iPhone owners asking for apple to at least give a bumper for free
  8. #8  
    I guess I am an apologist also. I have had no more drops than I had on my old iPhone. I do own a bumper but I am currently not using it. I have verified though that the bumper does help with the amount of bars. My iPhone makes calls even when I have no bars.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I guess I am an apologist also. I have had no more drops than I had on my old iPhone. I do own a bumper but I am currently not using it. I have verified though that the bumper does help with the amount of bars. My iPhone makes calls even when I have no bars.
    I mean no offense, but your posts forces me to question, "How familiar you are with the issue so many (other) iPhone owners are facing?"

    Sure. Plenty of people can MAKE calls, but plenty of them drop those calls if they're holding the phone in a certain way - which is apparently not completely unique to the iPhone. What IS unique is the external antenna that Apple claimed would improve the user experience, when it actually makes it possible for the user to touch the two antennae at the same time, resulting in dropped calls, for many people.

    If that's not your experience, and if you're not excusing Apple's poor design choice or their lackluster response to these and other problems they've caused, then I am not talking about you.

    I am not calling anyone an apologist for having a different experience with the phone than some others. I am talking about those who respond to people who ARE having these problems by yelling, "Buy a bumper and get over it!". I'm talking about people who say the phone can do so many other great things, so who cares if it drops phone calls when held a certain way.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by genearch View Post
    I was a little concerned about dropping it. The metal sides seemed a bit slick.

    I'm sure the cost of making the bumper is nil for apple, but it's more than a simple silicone wrap. It's pretty well built with little metal buttons in the bumper.
    Quite right -- much more to the bumper and its installation than 30 cents of rubber.

    here's a first hand report from a happy purchaser from the 2nd day:


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    As I was exiting the parking lot after being escorted from the mall by security, I saw someone walking unsteadily -- carrying an iPhone 4

    I asked him how it was going -- if he was liking his iPhone 4.

    “Love it !” he said enthusiastically.

    He told me he'd picked it up the day before -- but quietly confided that he too had suffered from those disconnection troubles I might have heard about -- something about the antennae design...

    Today he’d come back to the store to get those Apple designed rubber bumpers so that he could actually use this phone that he loved -- as a phone.

    I asked if he felt a little overcharged spending $30 for 30’ of rubber.

    No no no, he assured me -- its much much more involved than just the rubbers.

    Because they hug so tightly to the iPhone the rubber bumper requires a custom installation process -- one done exclusively by specially trained Apple geniuses -- geniuses chosen specifically for their beefiness, strength, and supple hands.

    iPhone 4 customers, he told me, are escorted to a secret room with extra thick walls behind the genius bar where these specially trained Apple technicians perform the installation. Like super sophisticated doctors he described how they first carefully put on finely crafted Apple designed vinyl gloves. Users were then told to bend over a special installation bench and repeat over and over for the length of the installation: "I love you Steve Jobs, I love you Steve Jobs, I love you Steve Jobs ... " as loudly as they could.

    The technicians then coat both their gloves and the rubber bumper with imported, Apple approved lubricant.

    My new friend looked at me starry eyed and said that the experience was exhausting, confusing, and strangely life changing -- all a part of being initiated into the Apple community.

    As I watched him limp off, I wondered if I would ever get to know or experience what only Apple devotees knew ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #11  
    ^ Now who is it with the dry sense of humor?
    Just call me Berd.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I own a Palm Pre and an iPad. I don't hate a brand based on simple, blind loyalty. I judge a manufacturer or product based on its actions or functionality.

    So, I am getting very tired of the Apple apologists and Kool-Aid drinkers who casually excuse or flat-out refuse to acknowledge the obvious and significant flaws of this new iPhone*. It is frustrating as hell, hearing this from incredibly smart people like Andy Ihnatko and certain commenters on the TiPb blog.

    People who paid hundreds of dollars and/or signed a two-year contract to buy this phone ought to be able to complain without being told to "Get over it," or to pay MORE money for an overpriced bumper that protects NOTHING but the perimeter of the device...all due to a poor antenna design.

    It's awesome that it has a great camera, can edit video, and folds your laundry, but if you can't hold it, naturally, while making a call, then it's all "smart" and no "phone."




    * - kinda like certain Palm loyalists wouldn't acknowledge some of the flaws in the Pre, a year ago
    I caught flack on TIPB when i said i preferred the 3GS (or 3G) form factor over the iphone 4. They even put it on the front page in a poll.

    I said the iphone 4 looks great. Very cool looking and all that. But it doesn't FEEL great to use. It's not comfortable to use IMO compared to the 3GS.

    Initially then, i bought a Bumper and tried a few other cases to get around this issue for me. To make it more comfortable to use.

    And the cases do make it better to use. But it also creates the problem that i can't use my accessories with a case on. That's unacceptable (for me). And because i had always used smartphones without cases or screen protectors, i've gone back to using no case with the iphone 4.

    It comes down to the iphone 4 being great in areas that i value much like the screen and ecosystem. That i'm willing to take a hit in comfort or having to work around antenna issues. Or feeling like i need to be careful where i lay the phone down having a glass back.

    But could i be happier? Definitely. A bumper isn't an option unless they start making things compatible to work with the stupid things. And i'm not a fan of Apple going with form over function. I realize their market is mainstream and all that but i'd much prefer the iphone 4's hardware upgrades in a 3GS form factor (or one with slight tweaks). I'd swap my "pretty" iphone 4 out in a heartbeat if they offered it.
    Last edited by cardfan; 07/14/2010 at 01:59 PM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    I mean no offense, but your posts forces me to question, "How familiar you are with the issue so many (other) iPhone owners are facing?"

    Sure. Plenty of people can MAKE calls, but plenty of them drop those calls if they're holding the phone in a certain way - which is apparently not completely unique to the iPhone. What IS unique is the external antenna that Apple claimed would improve the user experience, when it actually makes it possible for the user to touch the two antennae at the same time, resulting in dropped calls, for many people.

    If that's not your experience, and if you're not excusing Apple's poor design choice or their lackluster response to these and other problems they've caused, then I am not talking about you.

    I am not calling anyone an apologist for having a different experience with the phone than some others. I am talking about those who respond to people who ARE having these problems by yelling, "Buy a bumper and get over it!". I'm talking about people who say the phone can do so many other great things, so who cares if it drops phone calls when held a certain way.
    I am not excusing anything. I am an iPhone 4 owner that has no drops, no matter how I hold the phone. You are not an iPhone owner and are making accusations based on what you are reading on internet message boards. How familiar are you with the iPhone 4? How much hands on time do you have?

    I am not denying at all holding the iPhone in a certain way can make your bars disappear. I also have no doubt that doing this in a low signal area will make calls drop. It just doesn't happen to me (yet).
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I caught flack on TIPB when i said i preferred the 3GS (or 3G) form factor over the iphone 4. They even put it on the front page in a poll.

    I said the iphone 4 looks great. Very cool looking and all that. But it doesn't FEEL great to use. It's not comfortable to use IMO compared to the 3GS.

    Initially then, i bought a Bumper and tried a few other cases to get around this issue for me. To make it more comfortable to use.

    And the cases do make it better to use. But it also creates the problem that i can't use my accessories with a case on. That's unacceptable (for me). And because i had always used smartphones without cases or screen protectors, i've gone back to using no case with the iphone 4.

    It comes down to the iphone 4 being great in areas that i value much like the screen and ecosystem. That i'm willing to take a hit in comfort or having to work around antenna issues. Or feeling like i need to be careful where i lay the phone down having a glass back.

    But could i be happier? Definitely. A bumper isn't an option unless they start making things compatible to work the stupid things. And i'm not a fan of Apple going with form over function. I realize their market is mainstream and all that but i'd much prefer the iphone 4's hardware upgrades in a 3GS form factor (or one with slight tweaks). I'd swap my "pretty" iphone 4 out in a heartbeat if they offered it.

    Will i give the Captivate a look? Maybe..but i'll give it more time. If a jailbreak takes forever, that might put me over the edge.
    I also like the 3GS form factor better. I wish they took the screen of the 4 and just put it into the 3GS and I would have been very happy (I do kind of like the flat back though).

    So the question is would I give up my iPhone 4 because of all the issues? Not yet, because there is really no other device that offers me what the iPhone does. In fact, if I did leave, it would probably be to a 3GS.

    I got to try the Captivate. Its not bad (probably the best Android device I have tried) but its main problem is it runs Android (which I am just not that big a fan of). At times I really wished I liked Android more because every few months a newer device comes out (an I love new devices). The quality of available apps leaves a lot to be desired.

    Maybe HP can produce a killer WebOS device or Windows Phone 7 might not actually stink (I have serious doubts about that). It should be an interesting next few months.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    ^ Now who is it with the dry sense of humor?

    it had always been my understanding that the forum's terms of service forbade the use of "dry" humour -- that under some sort of grandfather provision, BARYE alone was exempted (because as my principal used to say, I'm "special" !)
    Last edited by BARYE; 07/14/2010 at 11:09 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I also like the 3GS form factor better. I wish they took the screen of the 4 and just put it into the 3GS and I would have been very happy
    I'm not too excited about the new flat and edgy of the ip4 either.
    I think they already had a winner with the 3GS.

    I will surely look at the Captivate.
    The Aria is getting great reviews for its reception and call quality.
    Just call me Berd.
  17. tirk's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    So, I am getting very tired of the Apple apologists and Kool-Aid drinkers who casually excuse or flat-out refuse to acknowledge the obvious and significant flaws of this new iPhone
    Why do you care? (serious question, BTW)

    Even if you bought one, Apple have offered a 30 day money back guarantee, so I can't see what you've lost. And frankly, most of the vitriol seems to be coming from people who haven't, and never had any intention of buying one.
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  18. #18  
    This is the best test yet I have seen on the internet. He is an MIT graduate, Antenna engineer. His intitial findings where dismissed by a lot of people here because they took a slightly positive Apple slant (thats not permitted here). His new tests are incredible detailed and he has some interesting findings. His full blog is here.............iPhone 4 Meets The*GripOfDeathInator - AntennaSys Blog - AntennaSys, Inc. - antenna design, integration and consulting.

    The most interesting comments from his new tests..............
    1) Gripping the Naked iPhone 4 certainly had a strong negative effect on the data rates, both upload and download.

    2) The effect of the grips on the iPhone 3G is much smaller. But, the Full-Grip still reduces the data rate on upload.

    3) Use of the Apple "Bumpers" has a very positive effect on performance. It mitigates much of the effect of the grips at our signal strength level.

    4) The iPhone 4 data rates still beat the iPhone 3GS data rates under all grip conditions.

    5) There was a large spread in the data during the Full-Grip, in both upload and download. This highlights the sensitivity of the antenna design to direct contact by the hand.

    finally he claims "I cannot imagine owning this phone with no case. And I can't imagine not owning an iPhone; it's a great device."

    Apples should supply everybody with a bumper.
  19. #19  
    It seems a non issue to me. People who really care about making calls probably wouldn't be buying an iPhone anyway. OTOH the iPhone 4 is supposed to perform much better than the 3GS in all non grip of death situations.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post

    finally he claims "I cannot imagine owning this phone with no case. And I can't imagine not owning an iPhone; it's a great device."

    Apples should supply everybody with a bumper.
    Wish i had an accessory that would work with a Bumper..
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