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  1. #61  
    Not even the Blackberry can escape the death grip.......
  2. #62  
    nokia can't escape the death grip (didn't they slam Apple last week in the press?).......
  3. #63  
    This is getting fun. HTC Hero and the terrible death grip.......
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Video of the death grip effect on a 3GS iPhone.....
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Video of death grip effect on the Nexus 1......
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Better not hold the EVO in landscape while browsing the web.....
    Again with this nonsense. I wouldn't naturally hold my phone while on a call like you do in any of the links you posted. In any of those movies, you are gripping it in a way that looks completely unnatural. I can do the same thing with my pre but i don't ever hold my phone from the very top or squeeze it from the very bottom so it's not an issue. The difference with the iPhone 4 is that it isn't due to covering an entire area of the phone, but just covering up the small seam on the bottom left, which makes it impossible to hold comfortably left handed, and hard to use right handed as your fingers can easily cover up the notch.

    Again the issue is not that it has a flaw, as regardless of whether it is or not, every phone ships with issues these days. It definitely is getting over hyped because it is such an important device to the general public. My problem is apples response to the whole mess. They are so afraid of making any comment on a possible issue of a feature Steve Jobs spent 20 minutes talking up on stage.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    Again with this nonsense. I wouldn't naturally hold my phone while on a call like you do in any of the links you posted. In any of those movies, you are gripping it in a way that looks completely unnatural. I can do the same thing with my pre but i don't ever hold my phone from the very top or squeeze it from the very bottom so it's not an issue. The difference with the iPhone 4 is that it isn't due to covering an entire area of the phone, but just covering up the small seam on the bottom left, which makes it impossible to hold comfortably left handed, and hard to use right handed as your fingers can easily cover up the notch.

    Again the issue is not that it has a flaw, as regardless of whether it is or not, every phone ships with issues these days. It definitely is getting over hyped because it is such an important device to the general public. My problem is apples response to the whole mess. They are so afraid of making any comment on a possible issue of a feature Steve Jobs spent 20 minutes talking up on stage.
    The 3GS, nexus, and hero were all held in an extremely natural way ( unless your telling me you can't hold your phone like that?). The EVO signal would be extremely impacted if used in landscape. Stop making excuses.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Not even the Blackberry can escape the death grip.......[url= - Blackberry Bold 9650 Death Grip[/url]
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    nokia can't escape the death grip (didn't they slam Apple last week in the press?).......[url= - Nokia E71 Reception Problems[/url]
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    This is getting fun. HTC Hero and the terrible death grip.......[url= - iPhone 4 'Death Grip' replicated on HTC Hero[/url]
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Video of the death grip effect on a 3GS iPhone.....[url= - iPhone 3GS Grip of Death with Erica Sadun's Strength tool[/url]
    [QUOTE=mobileman;2554061]Video of death grip effect on the Nexus 1......[URL]

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Better not hold the EVO in landscape while browsing the web.....[url= - HTC Evo Signal Attenuation[/url]
    you don't seem to realize that there are two things going on andthat this does not demonstrate the problem.


    buzz out loud had a discussion of this today.

    1 issue is attenuation from placing an object (hand) that absorbs signal over the phone, all phones have this, it's nothing new.

    the other is a little that touching and bridging the antena with another, creats a different antena basically, and destroys your signal strength.


    those videos don't prove anything other than the first and well know thing. However, as tested by CR the pre plus, and the 3gs do not have the second problem, the iphone 4dt does.

    I took this breakdown paraphrased from buzz out loud, if you want to go look it up, obviously they aren't physicists ( I think) but they are better qualified than random youtube videos for all I know.
    Last edited by windzilla; 07/13/2010 at 11:35 PM.
    There are four lights.
  7. #67  
    Apple needs to come out one way or another and make a final statement on the matter, before the 30 day window is up. If they don't then they fail in my book at being a decent company that respects it's customers.

    It is a FACT that the issue affects a ton of people. I could spam 20+ links right now if I wanted to, but I am not going to revert to such annoying childish behavior.

    The reason I believe they need to do something before the 30 day window is for those users that are affected by the problem, it is not simply as easy as just returning the phone as iPhone users are already heavily invested in the platform, as all the content they have on their phone is specific to that platform. If they do admit it's an issue then the affected users can return their phone and hope the problem will be solved, buy a case (which hopefully apple will provide for free), or do nothing and stop complaining. If they come out and say there is nothing wrong with the phone and never will be, then customers can decide to put up with the problem, or return their phone and use something that is less prone to dropping calls.

    If apple continues with their tight lipped "what's an antenna?" stance, then they suck as a company and deserve to see their stock plummet.
  8.    #68  
    Hi,

    I do realize that this is a serious problem, that is why I posted this in the 1st place. However, every time I heard death grip or the grip of death, all I can think of is a cheesy Hollywood sci fi movie for the '50's! LOL.

    Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. #69  
    [QUOTE=windzilla;2554160]
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Video of death grip effect on the Nexus 1......[URL]



    you don't seem to realize that there are two things going on andthat this does not demonstrate the problem.


    buzz out loud had a discussion of this today.

    1 issue is attenuation from placing an object (hand) that absorbs signal over the phone, all phones have this, it's nothing new.

    the other is a little that touching and bridging the antena with another, creats a different antena basically, and destroys your signal strength.


    those videos don't prove anything other than the first and well know thing. However, as tested by CR the pre plus, and the 3gs do not have the second problem, the iphone 4dt does.

    I took this breakdown paraphrased from buzz out loud, if you want to go look it up, obviously they aren't physicists ( I think) but they are better qualified than random youtube videos for all I know.
    Tell me what the difference is then? Bottom line, I showed examples on many different phones where holding it a certain way kills the signal. I cannot wrap my head around why some people here will ignore the issue on any other phone but the iPhone. Did consumers even run similar tests on these other devices?
  10. #70  
    [QUOTE=mobileman;2554180]
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post

    Tell me what the difference is then? Bottom line, I showed examples on many different phones where holding it a certain way kills the signal. I cannot wrap my head around why some people here will ignore the issue on any other phone but the iPhone. Did consumers even run similar tests on these other devices?
    I have on my pre, I can after 30 sec or so, get a 2 bar drop, but 30 sec later, same hold, the bars return, and I can't d it repeatably. Also data speeds don't seem to suffer. Which leads me to wonder if there is some attenuation AND detuning going on, and that the pre adjusts correctly

    now on my brothers iphone 4dt, a finger over that band gap will make the signal plummet from full to none (where I played with it) in seconds, and drop speeds to near nothing.

    simmilarly I wonder if there is detuning going on, which could perhaps be helped by improved software. Much like the vzw pre plus software fix for hardware issue.

    cnet has a nice demo vid, if you want one.
    Last edited by windzilla; 07/14/2010 at 12:04 AM.
    There are four lights.
  11. #71  
    [QUOTE=mobileman;2554180]
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post

    Tell me what the difference is then? Bottom line, I showed examples on many different phones where holding it a certain way kills the signal. I cannot wrap my head around why some people here will ignore the issue on any other phone but the iPhone. Did consumers even run similar tests on these other devices?
    The iphone is a very popular phone, it sells much more than any other single phone you posted about. Its not a mystery that its antenna issue is getting a ton of coverage, with a ton of people reporting that it is affecting them. This is a very vocal group of people, as I don't have to look far at all to find people having issues. I can easily find a ton of reports online of people saying they have many more dropped calls with their 4 than that did with their 3g or 3gs. At the same time, I can find just as many reports of people having absolutely no issue at all. I don't think either group of people is trying to make or break apple, I just think people are giving honest reports of their experiences with the iphone 4, but the fact still remains that customers are in fact disappointed by the products performance.

    In regards to the excessive amounts of youtube links you posted, my final thoughts on the matter remain unchanged. In all of those videos the demonstrator was tightly cupping the phone and holding it with what looked like an uncomfortable and awkward grip. In the link below, pay no attention to what he is saying, but just look at how he is holding his phone. THAT is how I hold my phone, with a loose, comfortable grip. There is NO cupping or squeezing involved. Skip to about 2 mintues into the vid to see what I'm talking about.

    Look at your N1 link at 1:30 to see what i'm talking about. Try holding your phone exactly like that while on a call and see how comfortable it is.

    The only exception to this that I noticed it the Nokia example you provided. The guy looks to be holding his phone in what I would consider to be a comfortable, natural grip. But guess what? Nokia addressed the issue before the phone even came out! They put in their manual for the phone "Your device may have internal and external antennas. Avoid touching the antenna area unnecessarily while the antenna is transmitting or receiving. Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause a higher power level during operation and may reduce the battery life." Heres a link for the E71 manual, you can find what I posted on page 18.
    http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/g...71-1_UG_en.pdf

    This sounds a lot different from the approach another company I know took. You think Steve spent any time mentioning the flawed design during his keynote?

    All I am trying to say is that I think apple is handling the antenna issue the wrong way. Instead of approaching it with their "Apple can do no wrong" attitude, I wish they would just come clean for once. This is not by a long shot the first time they have avoided confronting hardware issues, but it is the most publicized due to the iphones immense popularity. I really am not trying to be a hater, I can give you the classic disclaimer that that I own several apple products and all that. I really enjoy apples products in general, and really love their design philosophy. If you look through a few of my posts, I have posted in various apple related thread and given highly positive reviews of different apple products in the past. One such product was the iphone 4 actually. If you want to look it up be my guest, if not, I don't blame you for not wanting to dig through pages of some strangers posts, but basically what I wrote was how impressed I was initially with the iphone 4, before reports of the antenna issue were coming out. I even have posts defending apple stating that the issue was getting blown out of proportion (which I still think it is) but I just can't get over apples seemingly mindless policies sometimes. The only reason I posted any of this paragraph is to show that despite how I may have come off in earlier posts in this thread, I don't have it out for apple, and like to think I am being critical of how they are handling this issue without any personal bias for or against them.
  12. #72  
    what happened to the quotes formatting and posters? It's all wonky on my end via the mobile site.
  13. #73  
    Mr voodoochild, Apple already made a 'final statement': If your phone has issue return it within 30 days for a full refund. If you don't want to return the phone use a case and/or hold it differently.

    What other 'final statement' do you want? One that works for everyone? You know that's not possible right?

    This is a very simple matter. Do not buy the phone if you have converns or return it if you already bought it.
  14. #74  
    [QUOTE=voodoochild;2554216]
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post

    In regards to the excessive amounts of youtube links you posted, my final thoughts on the matter remain unchanged. In all of those videos the demonstrator was tightly cupping the phone and holding it with what looked like an uncomfortable and awkward grip.


    The only exception to this that I noticed it the Nokia example you provided. The guy looks to be holding his phone in what I would consider to be a comfortable, natural grip. But guess what? Nokia addressed the issue before the phone even came out! They put in their manual for the phone "Your device may have internal and external antennas. Avoid touching the antenna area unnecessarily while the antenna is transmitting or receiving. Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause a higher power level during operation and may reduce the battery life." Heres a link for the E71 manual, you can find what I posted on page 18.
    http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/g...71-1_UG_en.pdf
    I don't know what videos you are watching. But they all look like a very comfortable and natural way to hold a phone. I guess you are saying "Just don't hold it that way". Hmm, where have I heard that before?

    So Nokia is saying "Just dont hold it that way". How is this any different than what Apple has said? Especially since Nokia has made some interesting remarks lately about the Apple antenna. Its very interesting the exact thing happens on some of their models.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Mr voodoochild, Apple already made a 'final statement': If your phone has issue return it within 30 days for a full refund. If you don't want to return the phone use a case and/or hold it differently.

    What other 'final statement' do you want? One that works for everyone? You know that's not possible right?

    This is a very simple matter. Do not buy the phone if you have converns or return it if you already bought it.
    Turns out they decided they needed to make a 'final statement' anyways, holding a press conference for it. Take a look.

    Apple to hold iPhone 4 press conference this Friday -- Engadget
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Tell me what the difference is then? Bottom line, I showed examples on many different phones where holding it a certain way kills the signal. I cannot wrap my head around why some people here will ignore the issue on any other phone but the iPhone. Did consumers even run similar tests on these other devices?
    The issue is this is much more serious on the iPhone, a product developed by a company who's often high prices are justified by apparent high-quality engineering.

    Trouble is, any EE worth his salt would tell you having an exposed antenna of these designs is a very bad idea. Some antennas improve when you touch them (the human body becomes a half-dipole when touching a TV antenna, for example), and some react very poorly when touching them. Embedded antennas in smartphones fall into the group where touching them is a bad thing, as it detunes the already precariously balanced antenna.

    Imagine your a cell phone in one room of your house. Imagine your friend is a cell tower in another room. You scream at each other from each separate room to talk to each other. Now, someone puts their hand on a normal smarthphone. That'd be like closing the hallway door between you and your friend. You can still hear each other if you both shout, but it sounds much weaker and a bit different.
    Now someone touches an iPhone 4. Not only does the hallway door close, but now you have a pillow over your face and ears. Now you can barely understand each other at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  17. #77  
    Apparently, an EE worth his salt did tell Jobs about the problem: Engineer warned Jobs of potential iPhone 4 antenna issues
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  18. #78  
    The drum beat is becoming quite loud now. Saw an article in the Washington Post about it. I actually hope that Apple does the right thing. It will make me feel warm inside.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  19. #79  
    [QUOTE=mobileman;2554659]
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post

    I don't know what videos you are watching. But they all look like a very comfortable and natural way to hold a phone. I guess you are saying "Just don't hold it that way". Hmm, where have I heard that before?

    So Nokia is saying "Just dont hold it that way". How is this any different than what Apple has said? Especially since Nokia has made some interesting remarks lately about the Apple antenna. Its very interesting the exact thing happens on some of their models.
    You keep telling yourself that the iphone is perfect, I've heard if you say it enough times the problem might go away all by itself...

    The more you keep prodding the issue the more research on the subject I do. And as a result, the more convinced I become that the iphone is in fact, a flawed product.

    It turns out there IS in inherent difference between why the iphone 4 loses reception, and why you can cause the 3gs or nexus one to have signal attenuation.

    The 3gs and nexus one, as well as most other examples have internal antennae. Key word here is internal, for clarification. Looking at all the movies you posted shows me it is not as easy to cause signal attenuation in a phone that has an internal antenna because you have to hold it in a very specific way, which often looks uncomfortable, to cause it to happen.

    The iphone 4 on the other hand has external antennae, and when you bridge the gap between the two different peices on the left, it causes the signal to "detune". The location of this gap is in a very convenient area to cause this to happen, especially if you hold it with your left hand. Because of how easy it is to cause the signal to detune, it makes the phone much more suceptible to degraded call quality and dropped calls. I will admit however, it doesn't seem to affect people in areas with strong signal quality. But as I have read, for people that have always owned an iphone, and happen to use it in areas where att's coverage might not be the best, they have noticed an decrease in call quality, and an increase in dropped calls, from previous iphone models.

    Theres your difference...

    The Nokia phone had a similar problem, and caused a small uproar amongst the Nokia crowd. I cannot say for certain how Nokia handled this, but I believe any phone, regardless of manufacturer, deserves criticism if they put out such a flawed product. If the iphone 4 was the exact same thing, but put out by palm, I would be sitting here saying the EXACT same thing. I willingly admit, it probably wouldn't make me return my palm phone, depending on how badly the issue was for me, just as there are MANY iphone owners who don't care. But I wouldn't be sitting here acting like the phone was perfect. Most of us here are more than willing to admit the pre's not so stellar hardware.
  20. #80  
    Having an AT&T tower next to Apple's offices in Cupertino probably led them to believe the problem was no worse than attenuation on other phones. Phones that traveled out into the real world for testing had cases.

    I cannot get my Palm Pre to drop any bars, no matter how I hold it, but I'm in San Francisco which has great coverage.

    The iP4 needs to fess up and offer free bumpers, and easy returns. Maybe that will happen Friday.

    They really need to issue some kind of Mea Culpa about the problem. That is the worst issue right now. The need some way to get past the PRPRPR $stain$ $they$ $received$ $for$ $blaming$ $the$ $users$ $and$ $saying$ $the$ $problem$ $wasn$'$t$ $real$.
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