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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Diplomacy like this explains why you are a forum leader and a pastor, and why I am neither. Well stated.
    Agreed. Personally, I would've called him 'koolaidkid' or something silly like that.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    The fact is, you can't take out the community. Palm intentionally designed the OS with the community in mind, hence the developer mode. I think they understand that the users will ultimately define what it is they want their devices to do. Every device will reach its limits at some point particularly when they are being pushed to perform more and more like the much larger power eating devices we have grown accustomed to.
    That is not entirely fact. It's one small fact with which you have completely surrounded with your opinion/interpretation of Palm's intentions and to the extent this was to be used for. They surely did not hide the Developer mode from the average user to encourage it's use by the average user...

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    As far as OCing... I have been OC'd since the beginning and the only time heat was ever an issue is when I was experimenting with scaling. The larger contributor to heat is individual use patterns and ambient environment not processor clock speed.
    Since the beginning? The OC'd kernels have only been out for 3-4 months (?), so I am assuming you mean since then? So you have your one experience and I have mine (two experiences)... But where is the factual/technical data that you provided? You provided no more than I and yet attempt to discount my experiences based on nothing but your singular experience. My wife (a very casual user) experienced the overheating and touch issues in a AC office in which she has to wear sweater/fleece due to the temperature. She also experienced these at home (we have AC ) and elsewhere. I assure you it had very little to do with the ambient temperature or individual usage patterns. I've overclocked CPU's for years and I understand the drawbacks and I am familiar with the issues related to OC'ing. Most notablly increased heat and decreased life span. Palm underclocked these CPU's for a reason...


    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    and Prejudice... hardly. This is a Pre community, my role here is to assist as many Pre users as possible with factual information concerning the Pre and assistance with the Pre where I am able or experienced. A further component of my role is also to dispel falsehoods about the Pre where possible or ask for data to support such claims. So far I have seen no specific technical data Presented that demonstrates the Pre is outdated in any way.


    The fact that a given retailer such as Best Buy or Radio Shack decide to not carry a given product in their current line is not a good indicator for whether that product is outdated or not. It is merely a reflection of their desire to maximize profitability in the product lines they carry. Certainly the latest and greatest is going to sell better (more units in a given time span) than a 13 or 18 month old device (depending on which dates you Prefer to use), but that doesn't make that device outdated. Further, the addition of an additional forward facing camera to satiate the self infatuated social networking population doesn't make a device state of the art.

    If we are looking for apples to apples comparisons for smartphones the only two that even come close are the iPhone and EVO at the moment and if I'm not mistaken (and I reserve the right to be) they are each only available on one carrier each. The Pre and Pre Plus are currently available for purchase and support (respectively) on Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, Bell and several carriers based outside of the United States. So if that is any meaningful measure one could hardly call the Pre outdated. In fact it is more readily available to consumsers than any other comparable device.

    Again, please take your subjective complaints and opions elsewhere or provide factual technical data presented in such a way that conforms to a widely accepted definition of "outdated" so that it can be evaluated objectively.
    widely accepted definition


    out·dat·ed
    –adjective
    no longer in use or fashionable; out-of-date; outmoded; antiquated.

    Thesaurus
    Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
    Adj. 1. outdated - old; no longer valid or fashionable;
    noncurrent - not current or belonging to the present time

    and WOW... That last paragraph is a doozy!

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    If we are looking for apples to apples comparisons for smartphones the only two that even come close are the iPhone and EVO at the moment and if I'm not mistaken (and I reserve the right to be) they are each only available on one carrier each.
    You are mistaken, Very much so.
    Besides the Iphone, EVO and Pre.... there are...

    Motorola Droid, HTC HD2, HTC TP2, Samsung Moment, HTC Hero, HTC Droid Incredible, Nexus One, HTC Droid Eris, T-Mobile G1, HTC Aria, T-Mobile myTouch Slide.

    Wake up... The world is passing you by...

    And due any day are the various Samsung Galaxy S variants, Droid X, etc...

    Look up the technical specs for these phones. The ones that are in the same ball park as the Pre were from last year. Most of them (the current ones) far exceed the Pre. And you could very easily argue that everyone of them has a equal or larger feature set.

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    The Pre and Pre Plus are currently available for purchase and support (respectively) on Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, Bell and several carriers based outside of the United States. So if that is any meaningful measure one could hardly call the Pre outdated.
    It is not really a meaningful measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    In fact it is more readily available to consumsers than any other comparable device.
    Ummm... You have heard of a company named RIM.... that makes a device called a Blackberry?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    This is also ignoring where I said that I haven't had a smartphone that didn't requiring patching in some way. The iPhone required jailbreaking to pick up where it fell short. The Pre requires patches to pickup where it fell short. Android required flashing ROMs to pick up where it fell short. *** is your point?
    No, this is where you are ignoring the point that, out of the box, the Pre falls short on features and technical specs when compared to many current offerings.
  4. #104  
    @ gmanvbva

    wow, you need to switch to decaf.

    I'm happy with my Pre Plus, and the things that kept me from Android in January are still roadblocks to me. Lack of 3rd party products to sync with outlook and far to much dependance on gMail for every aspect of the phone. I don't like gMail, and I'm known for being somewhat critical of Google's track record on privacy issues.

    So, when the Pre Plus stops doing what I need (which implies a significant job change), I might take a look. Until then, there is no way I could consider my Pre+ outdated. My car isn't outdated, either.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    No, this is where you are ignoring the point that, out of the box, the Pre falls short on features and technical specs when compared to many current offerings.
    Are you saying that a 13 month old phone has less standard features than a brand new phone?
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    No, this is where you are ignoring the point that, out of the box, the Pre falls short on features and technical specs when compared to many current offerings.
    That is true for some. However, for me... the reverse is true.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by tyea View Post
    that's like saying the iphone 3GS is outdated (similar hardware). The performance for graphics, PIM, and multimedia communications is very competitive. A very small percentage people get a new car every year, but most people are more pragmatic about their needs. Granted, phones are less expensive than cars, but a new phone every year is not being driven by outdated technology, more like consumerism with little pragmatism.
    Because many people still us a Motorola Razr... does not mean the phone is not outdated...

    Because many people still have a CRT television in their house... does not mean it is not outdated...

    Because many people still drive a 1990's Toyota... does not mean they are not outdated...
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I'm gonna stop you here....a general consumer would not have to try to hack their 2.1 android device to get good usage out of it.

    On the other hand i simply won't recommend a Pre to someone without talking about homebrew because too many BASIC features are missing still.
    Ding Ding!!! We have a winner!
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Please explain "why" you say it is superior. I'm curious about why you say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I agree with this, but for clarification - doesn't it only show the most recent few apps? Is it possible to be running more apps than you can see with the method you mention above? That's something forgot to look at when I was playing with my neighbor's EVO. I know there is a limit to the "recent apps" list, but how does the "currently running apps" list work? Just curious.
    Read the link I posted earlier. It is also why Android's multitasking is superior to webOS's.

    The list is only limited to the most recent 6 documents. Applications continue to running in the background until there is no more memory available. Then it moves less prioritize and less frequently used applications out of memory. When it does this it saves the current "state" of the application. So the next time it is "launched" it resumes where it was. Think of it as something similar to windows hibernation mode. If the application remains in memory, it is still open in the background and "launching" it simply brings it to the forefront again.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Because many people still us a Motorola Razr... does not mean the phone is not outdated...

    Because many people still have a CRT television in their house... does not mean it is not outdated...

    Because many people still drive a 1990's Toyota... does not mean they are not outdated...
    And it doesn't mean that they ARE, either... You seem to struggle with the "different strokes for different folks" aspect of our economy.

    Decalf is definitely NOT outdated, so I recommend that you give it a try!

  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. In my case, I'm running more than 6 apps most of the time. The stuff that takes longer to load (gmaps if I'm in the car, plus email, messaging, etc) are usually running. And I have at least a half dozen browser cards open at once. That gives me something close to "tabbed browsing" so I can open a ling and let it load while I'm still reading the page where I found the link. It's great for opening the various P|C threads that are of interest, rather than having to return to the "new posts" and hoping the item I was interested in hasn't fallen off the first page.

    Also helpful for chasing links from Twitter, and other info sources.

    Heck, I have the memory available, why close them? I just arrange them so they require very few swipes to get what I am looking for...

    Do you ever have use tabbed browsing or have more than one browser open on your PC? It is as useful on my phone as it is on my PC... IMO
    Dolphin browser on Android is one of the best browsers on a mobile platform and it has advanced gestures!
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    And it doesn't mean that they ARE, either... You seem to struggle with the "different strokes for different folks" aspect of our economy.

    Decalf is definitely NOT outdated, so I recommend that you give it a try!

    The term itself is an adjective and is based on a current/fashionable OPINION!
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Read the link I posted earlier. It is also why Android's multitasking is superior to webOS's.

    The list is only limited to the most recent 6 documents. Applications continue to running in the background until there is no more memory available. Then it moves less prioritize and less frequently used applications out of memory. When it does this it saves the current "state" of the application. So the next time it is "launched" it resumes where it was. Think of it as something similar to windows hibernation mode. If the application remains in memory, it is still open in the background and "launching" it simply brings it to the forefront again.
    Is this how OSX, Linux, or Windows do it? I fail to see the superiority of pushing stuff out of memory, but I'm not an OS developer...

    also, how do you get to apps 7, 8, and 9 if they are still running? Does it switch back to them if you "launch" them again? I'm not clear on that. thanks.

    What other aspects of android multi-tasking are you considering to be superior. To me, the only thing superior is the quality of the apps that are being multi-tasked, but that's for another thread...
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @ gmanvbva

    wow, you need to switch to decaf.

    I'm happy with my Pre Plus, and the things that kept me from Android in January are still roadblocks to me. Lack of 3rd party products to sync with outlook and far to much dependance on gMail for every aspect of the phone. I don't like gMail, and I'm known for being somewhat critical of Google's track record on privacy issues.

    So, when the Pre Plus stops doing what I need (which implies a significant job change), I might take a look. Until then, there is no way I could consider my Pre+ outdated. My car isn't outdated, either.
    That's odd because there are many viable ways to sync Android with Outlook. HTC also has it's own Sync software which supports USB syncing. Which is one of the biggest complaints about syncing on the Pre (no reasonable USB sync solutions).
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    That's odd because there are many viable ways to sync Android with Outlook. HTC also has it's own Sync software which supports USB syncing. Which is one of the biggest complaints about syncing on the Pre (no reasonable USB sync solutions).
    CompanionLink offers an excellent USB syncing solution for Outlook. I use Pocket Mirror over wifi and bluetooth. Cables are outdated.

    When I looked at the MotoDroid in January, it required everything to travel through gmail to reach my phone. That is unacceptable to me, FYI. Maybe that's changed with HTC. dunno. I don't want everything tied to gMail.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Cables are outdated.
    Fair enough!

    BTW I love the elegance of webOS. If they catch up on hardware and feature set I would happily return
  17. #117  
    Just saying thanks for all the help here and for this post i am glad Best buy considers the Pre outdated because of that i got a Rocket Fish Case for 9.99 and ZAG full protection for 8.99 Go get u one. I love my fully customized Palm pre. Got this 7/5/10
  18. #118  
    sooo while @gmanvbva is GOING IN i will just say that even outdated phones are WAY better than new ones. take the treo or the centro which was SO much more functionality than the pre in most aspects, yet the pre is (was) considered new.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    Agreed. Personally, I would've called him 'koolaidkid' or something silly like that.
    Why, what would be your reason?
  20. #120  
    My wife has an EVO and loves it, so I've got hands-on experience (with the phone AND my wife [cue the rimshot!]).

    I still prefer the Pre form factor. I don't really feel the need for a larger screen. My thumb manages to span the phone without strain and, yes, I do watch movies on the thing without major eye strain.

    Do I want a new OS, yes? I look forward to HP releasing the missing APIs (voice, etc) that would encourage developers to take advantage of the platform. My only concern is that it may be too little/too late, but we'll see.

    Are there things I like the EVO for better? Well, I like the compass, but I think Palm had to make a choice between the touchstone and a compass. Also, I do like the background animation. Too bad it really isn't calendar aware, like it should be. It doesn't seem to take into account the real times for sunset and sunrise. There's gotta be a site out there that EVO could tap into to get that info.

    However, I refuse to give up my slider. I like the Pre's keyboard and find the onscreen keyboards to be painful. Now, if only I could get Palm to KEEP the middle button. It's not useless and I'm constantly using it for notifications and card dismissals.
    Former: Visor, Prism, VisorPhone, Treo 270,Treo 650, Centro Now: Pre

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