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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I would argue differently.

    Android uses a "first in, first out" method for pushing apps out of memory when something newer needs the space. This is one of the reasons why users need an app to "stop" tasks. Sure, some of them don't stop because they are poorly written. Unfortunately the user doesn't know which ones they are because the aren't identified that way in the app store. Also, as Android pushes apps out of memory, it isn't necessarily pushing out the entire app for the same reason. Interoperability between apps is also an important part of the definition. An app needs to be able to create and manage links - for example: tasks and appointments tied together so creation/deletion in one is reflected in the other. Not the end of the world, but hardly what I'd call "true" multi-tasking if those issues aren't addressed.

    In terms of the iPhone, they are doing what we did with a product called Software Carrousel back in the days of MS-DOS. No one would argue that maintaining state and swapping programs qualifies for multi-tasking.

    Just my two cents...
    What you are depicting is not entirely true. With Android 2.1+, you do not really need "App killers" because it does so well at managing applications and processes.

    Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way

    This sheds a little more light on things. Please note the "When does an application "stop"?" section.

    Android multitasking from a process/application point of view is actually superior to webOS. webOS is just a more "elegant" UI implementation.

    BTW... with all of the basic Apps running on my EVO AND Slacker, Sprint Nav, Pandora, Live Wallpaper, Robo Defense, FlightTrack, AppBrain, Amazon, Sprint TV...
    I have 122MB of RAM left and it's still quick and responsive UI.
    The latest update also significantly increase my standby battery life.
  2. #62  
    I have used the evo, and that is not multitasking. More like multiclunking
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    So within a year of its release, the phone will be consider outdated to even its own software providers while the Pre is at least going strong. This is of course due to little choice on the part of Palm, which has no new hardware to obsolete the Pre/+ in terms of software upgrades, but it is something that steers me away from the direction of Android.
    The Pre is still going strong 1 year later???

    Let me see...
    The Pre has a extremely high hardware failure rate.
    The Pre has subpar hardware specs (by current standards).
    The Pre has subpar feature set (by current standards).
    The Pre is not selling well at all, Sprint, BestBuy and others are mocing on from the device.

    But it is still going strong??? Maybe in this small Precentral community it is going strong... but if that is your perspective, you are living in a closet.

    And you are saying that the Moment will be outdated WHEN 3.0 is released but the Pre is currently going strong???

    Android 3.0 is not expected until the late fall... at the earliest AND that is even just a rumor at this point.

    PS: All your patches (and mine) on the Pre pickup where Palm falls short. A stock Pre is a sad puppy...
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    I have used the evo, and that is not multitasking. More like multiclunking
    Android multitasking from a process/application point of view is actually superior to webOS. webOS is just a more "elegant" UI implementation.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    The Pre is still going strong 1 year later???

    Let me see...
    The Pre has a extremely high hardware failure rate.
    The Pre has subpar hardware specs (by current standards).
    The Pre has subpar feature set (by current standards).
    The Pre is not selling well at all, Sprint, BestBuy and others are mocing on from the device.

    But it is still going strong??? Maybe in this small Precentral community it is going strong... but if that is your perspective, you are living in a closet.

    And you are saying that the Moment will be outdated WHEN 3.0 is released but the Pre is currently going strong???

    Android 3.0 is not expected until the late fall... at the earliest AND that is even just a rumor at this point.
    Yes, in reference to its use of webOS, the Pre is still going strong. It hasn't been obsoleted by software updates from its own software makers, which is obviously the context I was using in the one little sentence you decided to pull out of that entire paragraph.

    And no, I'm saying the Moment is outdated now. As in right now. Just as outdated specs wise as the Pre is. I used a Moment months ago that I flashed to 2.1 myself because months after the release of the software, the phone still hadn't been updated. So in those months with the latest Android release out and the Moment was lingering on Android 1.5, it was outdated and it was a clunky POS, too. Futhermore, the update to 2.1 ill-suited the phone and left me with a user experience that paled to my experience with webOS. Wading through the Android community trying to figure out how to fix the phone's UI to my liking was not a pleasurable experience either.

    PS: All your patches (and mine) on the Pre pickup where Palm falls short. A stock Pre is a sad puppy...
    This is also ignoring where I said that I haven't had a smartphone that didn't requiring patching in some way. The iPhone required jailbreaking to pick up where it fell short. The Pre requires patches to pickup where it fell short. Android required flashing ROMs to pick up where it fell short. *** is your point?
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  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Android multitasking from a process/application point of view is actually superior to webOS. webOS is just a more "elegant" UI implementation.
    Please explain "why" you say it is superior. I'm curious about why you say that.
  7. tyea's Avatar
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    #67  
    that's like saying the iphone 3GS is outdated (similar hardware). The performance for graphics, PIM, and multimedia communications is very competitive. A very small percentage people get a new car every year, but most people are more pragmatic about their needs. Granted, phones are less expensive than cars, but a new phone every year is not being driven by outdated technology, more like consumerism with little pragmatism.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    This is completely true. Take out this community and webos internals and this phone and webos are VERY lackluster. This is by far the most organized and supportive community for any phone I have "customized".

    BTW... for those banging the 1GHz gong... I have had overheating and intermittent touch screen failures on the last two Pre's I have OC'd (and only to 720). I have only OC'd two Pre's (again only to 720 screen state) and both have had issues very commonly related to OCing. It took a couple months for them to start experiencing issues and they progressively got worse. This fortunately is not a huge deal since the Pre's fail so much that Sprint swaps them out without thinking twice about it.

    @pastorrich1...

    Your prejudice is showing...
    The fact is, you can't take out the community. Palm intentionally designed the OS with the community in mind, hence the developer mode. I think they understand that the users will ultimately define what it is they want their devices to do. Every device will reach its limits at some point particularly when they are being pushed to perform more and more like the much larger power eating devices we have grown accustomed to.

    As far as OCing... I have been OC'd since the beginning and the only time heat was ever an issue is when I was experimenting with scaling. The larger contributor to heat is individual use patterns and ambient environment not processor clock speed.

    and Prejudice... hardly. This is a Pre community, my role here is to assist as many Pre users as possible with factual information concerning the Pre and assistance with the Pre where I am able or experienced. A further component of my role is also to dispel falsehoods about the Pre where possible or ask for data to support such claims. So far I have seen no specific technical data Presented that demonstrates the Pre is outdated in any way.

    The fact that a given retailer such as Best Buy or Radio Shack decide to not carry a given product in their current line is not a good indicator for whether that product is outdated or not. It is merely a reflection of their desire to maximize profitability in the product lines they carry. Certainly the latest and greatest is going to sell better (more units in a given time span) than a 13 or 18 month old device (depending on which dates you Prefer to use), but that doesn't make that device outdated. Further, the addition of an additional forward facing camera to satiate the self infatuated social networking population doesn't make a device state of the art.

    If we are looking for apples to apples comparisons for smartphones the only two that even come close are the iPhone and EVO at the moment and if I'm not mistaken (and I reserve the right to be) they are each only available on one carrier each. The Pre and Pre Plus are currently available for purchase and support (respectively) on Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, Bell and several carriers based outside of the United States. So if that is any meaningful measure one could hardly call the Pre outdated. In fact it is more readily available to consumsers than any other comparable device.

    Again, please take your subjective complaints and opinions elsewhere or provide factual technical data presented in such a way that conforms to a widely accepted definition of "outdated" so that it can be evaluated objectively.
    Last edited by pastorrich1; 07/06/2010 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling
  9. #69  
    Android multitasking is a mix of the blackberry multitasking and the new iPhone (with how it closes unnecessary apps eventually).

    UI i prefer on WebOS but both get the job done the same (hold down home on a droid to select the app to switch to)
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    This is also ignoring where I said that I haven't had a smartphone that didn't requiring patching in some way. The iPhone required jailbreaking to pick up where it fell short. The Pre requires patches to pickup where it fell short. Android required flashing ROMs to pick up where it fell short. *** is your point?
    I'm gonna stop you here....a general consumer would not have to try to hack their 2.1 android device to get good usage out of it.

    On the other hand i simply won't recommend a Pre to someone without talking about homebrew because too many BASIC features are missing still.
  11. #71  
    I agree that it takes about 30 patches (at least) to get the Pre up to the definition of a "smart" smart phone. Some solve really "stupid" defaults or limitations that Palm should have addressed by now (like automatically refreshing a browser card when you maximize it... wuh?)

    But, all the technical crabbing and spec throwing above doesn't really matter to me in that my current Pre Plus better suits my needs than anything else. If it didn't, I'd buy whatever did. A few hundred dollars is a small price to pay for having the right tools for my job. I paid more for my netbook that I would for a full-priced EVO/iPhone/Whatever and I'd buy them if they met my needs better. So, don't tell me about clock speed and such. Those are just specs. I don't drive a Porsche even though it's faster. I don't need faster. There are houses that are newer and have more bedrooms, but I don't need more bedrooms.

    And clock speed is often not the best indicator of responsiveness. Ask Intel about that as you use a new quad-core that runs at a lower clock speed than your old Pentium4.

    Outdated for you, sure. Outdated for me, nope. Every time I look at the newest phones, they fall short compared to my highly patched Pre Plus. Unless my needs change, I'm fine with it. If my needs change or something really compelling comes along... I'll consider it.

    But no one says "how out dated that thing is" when I show it to them. It's a matter of perspective... They may still prefer android or iphone, but they are certainly impressed with the Pre...
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/06/2010 at 12:33 PM. Reason: typo
  12. #72  
    Yeah specs don't mean anything. There is a reason APple doesn't talk about specs.

    How its all implemented in your device at the end of the day is why you should enjoy the phone you use.

    I love my Palm Pre, all 50 some odd patches and all, but using other devices i'm more then ready to move to android as i don't think we'll see another WebOS device in the short term anytime soon.
  13. Luke35's Avatar
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    #73  
    Is it pretty safe to say that this was not the same Best Buy employee as the one mentioned by the OP?
    Palm IIIc --> m515 --> Tungsten T3 --> Centro --> Pre Plus --> HP Touchpad!!!

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  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Android multitasking is a mix of the blackberry multitasking and the new iPhone (with how it closes unnecessary apps eventually).

    UI i prefer on WebOS but both get the job done the same (hold down home on a droid to select the app to switch to)
    I agree with this, but for clarification - doesn't it only show the most recent few apps? Is it possible to be running more apps than you can see with the method you mention above? That's something forgot to look at when I was playing with my neighbor's EVO. I know there is a limit to the "recent apps" list, but how does the "currently running apps" list work? Just curious.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Yeah specs don't mean anything. There is a reason APple doesn't talk about specs.

    How its all implemented in your device at the end of the day is why you should enjoy the phone you use.

    I love my Palm Pre, all 50 some odd patches and all, but using other devices i'm more then ready to move to android as i don't think we'll see another WebOS device in the short term anytime soon.
    I think it's fine to be ready for Android if it better meets your needs. But, I predict that there will be a major release (i.e. webOS 2.0) by the end of this year, and new handsets - announced and maybe launched - before 2011. What motivates me to encourage you to wait rather than change is that the next major release of webOS should be able to run on your existing hardware.

    For me, that makes the interval to the next Palm hardware less of an issue. Even if it might be faster on the new hardware, I can live with that (thanks to overclocking). Just like my netbook. There are faster ones coming out, but the one I use now is plenty fast for my current needs...

    I think the next 6 months will have lots of exciting news from Palm, and I'm happy enough to wait for it. Now, if they crapped on homebrewing like Apple does... that would be different. But webOS was built with homebrewing in mind, so I can count on adding cool features even if they don't come from Palm...
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke35 View Post
    Is it pretty safe to say that this was not the same Best Buy employee as the one mentioned by the OP?
    Talk about classic stupidity. No one would have known to associate this with Best buy until the company decided to make an issue out of it. Nothing about this would have cast any negative (or positive) light on Best Buy. Ignorance is bliss.

    But, since they decided to be jerks about it, now we know. And I dare say it makes BB look stupid. If they had left it alone, everyone would have been none the wiser. Instead, BB has the potential for a wrongful termination lawsuit, and a bunch of bad PRPRPR.

    I'm planning to send an email to BB pointing those facts out to them. As long as he didn't associate himself with BB, they have no business getting involved in what he does on his own time. Whoever decided to make this an issue should be the first one reprimanded...

    Bad publicity isn't what they need. A reputation for knowledgeable sales people is what they need. Doh!
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    Yeah, but they showed it to the public in January and a lot of people lost interest once they finally released on June 6 because they took to long to bring it to market...it was old news already! That's why most phones launch within a month or so after announcement to keep you interested and to prevent you from going else where.
    Dude, you should be in business!! Seriously, with that astute business insight on the situation Palm was in, who KNOWS what you may be able to accomplish.

    /sarcasm.
  18. #78  
    PS, here are the first two spoofs on how stupid BB is in creating such a tempest in a tea pot:





    Someone at BB has to be thrilled to know how much negative exposure they are getting because they don't understand the internet (apparently)... This should be a case study on how to develop/enforce corporate social media policy without negating millions in advertising dollars with one self-inflicted leap in to negative attention and bad press. The second video addresses that directly, where the CEO tells someone to fire this guy to "keep it quiet" when any fool should realize that this will guaranty that it stops being their "secret."

    I also noticed that this guy uses a Palm Pre. I wonder if he is on these forums. If so, we should give him a special title and our undying thanks!
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/06/2010 at 12:30 PM.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I agree with this, but for clarification - doesn't it only show the most recent few apps? Is it possible to be running more apps than you can see with the method you mention above? That's something forgot to look at when I was playing with my neighbor's EVO. I know there is a limit to the "recent apps" list, but how does the "currently running apps" list work? Just curious.
    it shows the last 6 apps. But realistically....who is flipping through more than 6 apps at a time. I honestly have never done that unless i just get lazy from closing apps on my Pre. 3-4 is really my personal wheelhouse. But this is where the UI on the Pre is technically better...just not a major concern for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I think it's fine to be ready for Android if it better meets your needs. But, I predict that there will be a major release (i.e. webOS 2.0) by the end of this year, and new handsets - announced and maybe launched - before 2011. What motivates me to encourage you to wait rather than change is that the next major release of webOS should be able to run on your existing hardware.

    For me, that makes the interval to the next Palm hardware less of an issue. Even if it might be faster on the new hardware, I can live with that (thanks to overclocking). Just like my netbook. There are faster ones coming out, but the one I use now is plenty fast for my current needs...

    I think the next 6 months will have lots of exciting news from Palm, and I'm happy enough to wait for it. Now, if they crapped on homebrewing like Apple does... that would be different. But webOS was built with homebrewing in mind, so I can count on adding cool features even if they don't come from Palm...
    Yeah I mean, i'm wiht Sprint so i get another upgrade every 12 months instead of 2 years. If there is a huge WebOS annoucement, awesome. I'll be on the site still checking news....i want WebOS to succeed and do well and I think its Apple/Android combined approach is the best way to do things. But i'm also a tech head who loves buying new devices so my upgrade comes July 31stand I'll most likely be upgrading to whatever suits my need the most (which as its looking now, Evo or Epic.).

    Hopefully new WebOS device next year around my upgrade time.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFWD1934 View Post
    Strange I was this post, because I was actually going to post something similar to this. I dropped my Pre yesterday and that was it. It became a 2 piece phone at that point. So I went to Beat Buy to get a new one and they didn't have any. He said that the Pre had been deleted from their system (their being that Best Buy). There were still some at a few stores that he could do a transfer for me. Looks like that's what I will have to do unless there is something coming that I have not heads about from Palm.

    Jason
    Check your local WalMart's (unless you doing an exchange on warranty). My daughter picked one up a couple weeks ago for $78.
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