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  1.    #1  
    You know what I hate, The way webOS has the best ever multi-tasking, and always has had- But then iOS comes along with what even experts are calling the worst method of multi-tasking too and get's all the attention. I don't know if any of you agree with this but Palm and webOS phones are being under-appreciated. It really sucks though.. Do you think HP will fix it?
    Can't wait for my Pré!
  2. #2  
    While, as a long time Palm user, I can empathize with your feelings, ut I always keep in mind the following fact, sad as it may seem:

    "The technoligcally superior product is not always the most successful one in the market."

    I've said it before in other threads... the iPhone's multitasking may not be as purely correct and useful as WebOS's, but, it serves the purpose and iPhone users can do more with it then they did before, and THAT is all that matters.. thier perception is, quite simply, that they can do more than one thing at a time, and most of them are tickled pink about it.

    Now, of course, if we gave every iPhone user the choice of the iPhone style multitasking vs WebOS style multitasking on thier current iPhone device, I would venture to opine that most, if not all, would choose the more straightforward and elegant one - which I believe would be WebOS's.

    But, that isnt going to happen.

    So, its up to HP to push WebOS devices in all thier new hardware forms - if they are successful in marketting them correctly, and demand grows, then more peiple will know that they do have a choice, unlike now, which, sadly, they don't.

    IMO, of course.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3. #3  
    Exactly.. Rememeber Beta was superior to VHS and consumers wanted VHS ( there are a ton of reasons too long to go into). SUV cars were terrible on gas to say a Camry but people wanted the cool , large SUV cars. Happens all the time.
    Honestly while WEBOS is the best at miultitasking the average person could care less. I did my own unscientific survery like a year ago asking everyone I knew (friends , work , strangers etc) about multi tasking and nearly all said who cares. I even love the WEBOS multitasking but could care less. I rarley had more then 3 cards open ( and when I did the phone would freeze or get the TMC Error) If a phone does what people want and has all the bells and whisltes , apps etc they honestly dont care if it isnt as good at multi tasking. I dont. why the iphone is so popular. it gives the people what they want. Apps and cool features.Multitasking is a cool novelty in my opinion. And does make a phone better but its not a deal breaker to most. The success of phones like Android and Iphone prove that, HP needs to get developers onbaord and give the phone features. ( front camera, big screen , 8MP camera , High end video recording etc) or it will end up with the same fate.

    Again as said above me, the better product is not always what the people want.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    They have lost that battle to iOS and Android.
    UntidyGUy;

    I thinkk its incorrect to state that they have "lost" the battle to them - that implies they have been defeated and can never fight back in those markets - and that certainly isnt the case, especially with HP licking thier chops at the 2.5 billion ccell phone users in the world that haven't upgraded to smartphones yet.

    A more appropriate conclusion might be that they are losing the battle to iOS, and Android,

    BTW,

    A good "masculine" name for the next WebOS device (a really top notch hardware device, of course) with an extensive and clever marketting campaign could change the above in a heartbeat.

    IMO, of course.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #5  
    Thats true, webos hasnt lost the battle , webos is just trying to get into the battle . there market share really was never a threat to IOS or Android. The real losers of the battle is windows mobile who see there market share errode every quarter and raised the white flag this week with the cancelation of the KIN and sidekick etc. Ofcourse Microsoft will not give up. they are pinning there hopes on WM 7 .
    HP isnt going to try to battle the big boys (android and Iphone) . They will try to find a niche for there products. Can be done.
    It can be done. Find a nice niche and make a profit. I also agree with the above . I think HP moved there products away from the comnsumer . Seems like a good guess as they are going to make there phones intergrate with there slates, printers etc. Thats not really something the average consumer cares about. But in the business world thats pretty cool. Where I work ( a mobile handheld company) we already do this with our devices to an extend but its crude. I think HP could really hit the jackpot with intergration for businesses.
  6. #6  
    I've said it before and I'll repeat: The only way to chip away at Apple's dominance is to not only build a competitive product, but to directly attack the iPhone through relentless advertising. There are way too many sheep that only respond to what they see on TV and through word of mouth. Just showcasing what the product can do while necessary, is not enough IMO, it must be compared directly and shown as an alternative that's better at doing certain things, such as multitasking etc. We've seen an example of this with the Droid Does campaign by Verizon.

    I believe Palm is now in a better position to do this. Hopefully they will build something comparable to the newest phones in specs and come up with some 'less cute' names for their devices. They need some profound, memorable, in-your-face names. I'm sorry but while 'Pre' was ok to some degree, it just didn't convey 'dominance' or 'power'. Pixi was even worse and seemed like it was aimed at females only. They need to get away from that and put out something unforgettable that appeal to everyone but more so to the people who actually buy the latest and greatest. Just my 2 cents.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  7. urkel's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneBunting View Post
    You know what I hate, The way webOS has the best ever multi-tasking, and always has had- But then iOS comes along with what even experts are calling the worst method of multi-tasking too and get's all the attention.
    Compared to Android/WebOS and even WinMo7 then the iPhone falls short in several areas.
    -iPhone multitasking is inferior WebOS
    -iPhone App approval is more inconvenient than everyone else
    -iPhone stock functionality is more limited out of the box than Android
    -iPhone carrier selection is extremely limited

    So why does the iPhone succeed at this level when it has so many easy to see negative attributes? Because people nitpicking at the "flaws" are completely ignoring a simple fact.

    Its not about the potential, it's about the execution

    I believe WebOS has the foundation to be a competetive mobile OS, but what good is "potential" when it is unrealized? People spend so much time and energy hating on the iPhone but they should be directing that frustration towards Palm for failing to deliver.

    WebOS has the best multitasking ever...but it runs on shoddy outdated hardware and the available apps suck.

    WinMo7 has leverage in the gaming community and can appeal to both Business and Casual Users, but it doesn't exist yet.

    Android has the most choice in both carriers and devices, and they are SUCCEEDING because they offer something available NOW.

    Everyone has a chance to dethrone Apple but, as google demonstrates, Talk is cheap. As consumers we should demand action rather than make excuses. Apple and Google are consistently evolving their product so they deserve their success.

    And as for HP... I've been a Palm user for long enough to know that restructuring has NEVER stopped this company from tying their own shoelaces together. HP offers money and a distribution leverage but in the mobile world then that means nothing because Palm already burned every major carrier so I'm curious whether ATT, Sprint or Verizon would be interested in yet another round of Palm devices.
    Last edited by Urkel; 07/05/2010 at 02:42 PM.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneBunting View Post
    You know what I hate, The way webOS has the best ever multi-tasking, and always has had- But then iOS comes along with what even experts are calling the worst method of multi-tasking too and get's all the attention. I don't know if any of you agree with this but Palm and webOS phones are being under-appreciated. It really sucks though.. Do you think HP will fix it?
    Would you buy a television that has the worlds best built in sound system, but the screen is all grainy?

    That's basically Palm Pre. You are talking about one major thing, but ignoring all the other issues about the Palm Pre or features it lacks that other smart phones have that are way more important to users than true multi-tasking.
  9. urkel's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    I've said it before and I'll repeat: The only way to chip away at Apple's dominance is to not only build a competitive product, but to directly attack the iPhone through relentless advertising.
    And how successful was Apples lame Windows bashing commercials? They went from 8% to 8.2%?

    Product bashing is just catering to your existing userbase and everyone else just looks at them as desperate and petty. If Palm wants to succeed in round 2 then the solution is simple.

    MAKE A PRODUCT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by VaccPalm View Post
    Exactly.. Rememeber Beta was superior to VHS and consumers wanted VHS
    The iPhone is Beta and the Palm Pre is VHS. This time people are picking Beta the superior product.

    You're in serious denial if you think the Palm Pre is in the same category as the iPhone.

    I have a co-worker that has a Palm Pre and he has all kinds of quirks with it, that his wife never has to deal with on her iPhone (he is anti-Apple). I have held his Pre and the hardware quality does not begin to compare to the superior iPhone hardware quality. The OS on the iPhone is way more polished than the Pre. Not to mention the lack of quality apps for the Palm Pre and basically no ecosystem for the Palm Pre.

    And you think the Palm Pre is the better phone because it has true multi-tasking, while ignoring all the other issues about the Pre?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    And how successful was Apples lame Windows bashing commercials? They went from 8% to 8.2%?

    Product bashing is just catering to your existing userbase and everyone else just looks at them as desperate and petty. If Palm wants to succeed in round 2 then the solution is simple.

    MAKE A PRODUCT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT
    That's because Macs cost an arm and a leg. When those commercials came out I wanted to get a Mac. But when I looked at the prices I said hell nah. I believe you need to attack the competition head on and have a competitive price.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    The iPhone is Beta and the Palm Pre is VHS. This time people are picking Beta the superior product.

    You're in serious denial if you think the Palm Pre is in the same category as the iPhone.

    I have a co-worker that has a Palm Pre and he has all kinds of quirks with it, that his wife never has to deal with on her iPhone (he is anti-Apple). I have held his Pre and the hardware quality does not begin to compare to the superior iPhone hardware quality. The OS on the iPhone is way more polished than the Pre. Not to mention the lack of quality apps for the Palm Pre and basically no ecosystem for the Palm Pre.

    And you think the Palm Pre is the better phone because it has true multi-tasking, while ignoring all the other issues about the Pre?
    1. Please don't insult others ("you are in serious denial if you believe..") for expressing thier opinion. Its how they feel, and they arent insulting you; last time I checked, we all have a right to evaluate products and feel as we do.

    2. Most people agree with you regarding the hardware build quality.. that was its downfall, but, if you want to pit iOS4 against WebOS, you will find a much different accounting.. it is widely expressed by the media and critics alike, that WebOS is the best and most intuitive OS for mobile devices today.

    3. You keep saying that the iPhone OS is "more polished" than WebOS.. does this infer that iPhone4, now 4 years in the market, is "more polished" becuase has less bugs in it than WebOS, barely over a year old? Or, are you inferring that the iPhone, which had 0 apps after being in the market a year (thats when the first ones appeared), and now has over 200,000 apps, is "more polished" than WebOS, which is just over a year in the market, and ALREADY has between 2,500 and 3,000 apps officially available to users for use in the OS?

    4. Most importantly, what's "important" to YOU isn't necessarily what is important to others. Please stop imposing your own judgements and values onto others.. truly, it isn't endearing, and you lose credibility, not to mention, it then degrades the thread into one where you try to come off as the expert and everyone else is "delusional" and words like "Condescending" and "Arrogance" becomme the prevail tone, rather than civil discussion of differing opinions.

    IMO, of course!

    Last edited by LCGuy; 07/05/2010 at 03:32 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  13. #13  
    UntidyGuy;

    "In late 2010, or whenever HP/Palm gets their act together, the carriers will have plenty of smartphones to offer their customers including Androids, Windows Phone 7's, HTC variants, even Dell is going to have some nice looking phones."

    I totally agree, and a successful and profitable product launch in THAT environment would be incredibly encouraging!

    "I seriously doubt webOS phones will be able to differentiate themselves among the competition."

    The contention here is that because it is WebOS, it already does!

    We shall see, won't we?

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    And how successful was Apples lame Windows bashing commercials? They went from 8% to 8.2%?

    Product bashing is just catering to your existing userbase and everyone else just looks at them as desperate and petty. If Palm wants to succeed in round 2 then the solution is simple.

    MAKE A PRODUCT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT
    We're talking Apples and oranges. Price, compatibility and the fact that OSX isn't compelling enough to encourage many to switch are main reasons why Windows continues to dominate. All the advertising in the world isn't going to stop that easily. Plus these mac vs pc commercials only appeared after Windows was already mature and firmly established. The iPhone is getting there but it's not quite there yet and the mobile phone market still has a lot of room for other players.

    With mobile phones the playing field is little more level in terms of price and people in general seem a lot less educated about the various features and capabilities, both software and hardware. This is where advertising is very important IMO. Many believe X feature is only possible on the iPhone or the iPhone was the first to have X feature when others had it long before. Again advertising can help here. But if you want to chip away at iPhone's dominance it must be 'bashed' and fought head-on.

    MAKE A PRODUCT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT
    This is important yes, but it's only half the battle. You have to demonstrate the product, not only build it. And if you want to sway someone who's set on getting an iPhone you have get their attention, and that is through head to head ads.
    Last edited by darreno1; 07/05/2010 at 03:46 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    1. Please don't insult others ("you are in serious denial if you believe..") for expressing thier opinion. Its how they feel, and they arent insulting you; last time I checked, we all have a right to evaluate products and feel as we do.

    2. Most people agree with you regarding the hardware build quality.. that was its downfall, but, if you want to pit iOS4 against WebOS, you will find a much different accounting.. it is widely expressed by the media and critics alike, that WebOS is the best and most intuitive OS for mobile devices today.

    3. You keep saying that the iPhone OS is "more polished" than WebOS.. does this infer that iPhone4, now 4 years in the market, is "more polished" becuase has less bugs in it than WebOS, barely over a year old? Or, are you inferring that the iPhone, which had 0 apps after being in the market a year (thats when the first ones appeared), and now has over 200,000 apps, is "more polished" than WebOS, which is just over a year in the market, and ALREADY has between 2,500 and 3,000 apps officially available to users for use in the OS?

    4. Most importantly, what's "important" to YOU isn't necessarily what is important to others. Please stop imposing your own judgements and values onto others.. truly, it isn't endearing, and you lose credibility, not to mention, it then degrades the thread into one where you try to come off as the expert and everyone else is "delusional" and words like "Condescending" and "Arrogance" becomme the prevail tone, rather than civil discussion of differing opinions.

    IMO, of course!

    1. I don't consider than an insult. More of reality.

    3. Polished...It's like Apple's FIRST version of their idea of a tablet. Look at their first version and compare it to all the other tablets that companies have been making for years. Or, look at Apple's first cell phone, ever, and compare it to any Motorola cell phone back in 2007. Apple has proven more than once that their first time doing something can be incredibly good the first time and it only gets better as the iPhone.

    About the amount of apps. The iPad has only been out about 3 months and it already has more iPad specific apps than the Pre and it has been out way longer.

    4. It's not about what I want. It's about what the average consumer finds important to them. The OP was upset because he said the iOS gets all the attention. I simply stated that people care about other things in a smart phone that the Pre lacks versus true multi-tasking.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    And how successful was Apples lame Windows bashing commercials? They went from 8% to 8.2%?
    Actually, that campaign was very successful for Apple. I've already posted on here in the past Apple's sales results, etc, with links to the articles on the web.

    You're also comparing Apple to markets in which they don't compete in. Just like a $199 smart phone is not going to have the market share of a cheap, free flip phone. Apple is not going to sell as many of their $1000 Macs as a cheap $299 HP laptop. BUT, if you go back and look at Apple's sales results over the last several years, you will see that they are growing faster than the overall computer market.

    Here is just one article that I found using Google that talks about Apple's performance in the premium computer market. Which is the market they compete in.

    Nine out of 10 premium-priced PCs sold at US retail is a Mac | Betanews
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    1. I don't consider than an insult. More of reality.

    3. Polished...It's like Apple's FIRST version of their idea of a tablet. Look at their first version and compare it to all the other tablets that companies have been making for years. Or, look at Apple's first cell phone, ever, and compare it to any Motorola cell phone back in 2007. Apple has proven more than once that their first time doing something can be incredibly good the first time and it only gets better as the iPhone.

    About the amount of apps. The iPad has only been out about 3 months and it already has more iPad specific apps than the Pre and it has been out way longer.

    4. It's not about what I want. It's about what the average consumer finds important to them. The OP was upset because he said the iOS gets all the attention. I simply stated that people care about other things in a smart phone that the Pre lacks versus true multi-tasking.
    1. You may not, but, it is, both techically and literally. Addtionally, once again, if YOU don't consider it an insult, that doesnt mean it isnt... I sense a pattern forming here...

    2. Oh, wait, you didn't respond to 2.. lol

    3. Why are you now talking about the iPad? This thread is about WebOS and the OPs frustration at how little recognition it gets versus how good he thinks it is. Not relevant.

    4. On the contrary, it is, and, everything you post, is ALL about what YOU want and think, above everyone else (that's the pattern I was referring to, above). Now, more relevant, is that you didnt just "state tat people care about other things... ", you provided an irrational analogy and followed it up with presumptions and generalizations:

    "Would you buy a television that has the worlds best built in sound system, but the screen is all grainy?

    That's basically Palm Pre. You are talking about one major thing, but ignoring all the other issues about the Palm Pre or features it lacks that other smart phones have that are way more important to users than true multi-tasking"

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    An also-ran OS that nobody ever heard of and that few developers bother targeting isn't a differentiating feature. As far as I'm concerned, we have already seen what webOS is capable of in the marketplace and it cost Palm the company.
    UntidyGuy;

    "Also-ran"? enlighten me, please....

    "OS that nobody ever heard of and that few developers bother targetting isnt a differentiating feature" - assuming you are right for the moment (a big stretch, but, ok), who ever said this was the differentiating characteristics of WebOS?

    "As far as Im concerned, we have already seen what webOS is capable in the marketplace and it cost Palm the company"

    Wow, that is one skeptical and pessimistic view. A more objective view might be:

    Palm created an innovative and powerful software OS, and then put it into hardware that didnt have the build quality and optimizations to take advantage of it, and showcase it, so the DEVICES failed in the market, but the value of the OS was significant, as HP bought the company for it for $1.2billion.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    1. You may not, but, it is, both techically and literally. Addtionally, once again, if YOU don't consider it an insult, that doesnt mean it isnt... I sense a pattern forming here...

    2. Oh, wait, you didn't respond to 2.. lol

    3. Why are you now talking about the iPad? This thread is about WebOS and the OPs frustration at how little recognition it gets versus how good he thinks it is. Not relevant.

    4. On the contrary, it is, and, everything you post, is ALL about what YOU want and think, above everyone else (that's the pattern I was referring to, above). Now, more relevant, is that you didnt just "state tat people care about other things... ", you provided an irrational analogy and followed it up with presumptions and generalizations:

    "Would you buy a television that has the worlds best built in sound system, but the screen is all grainy?

    That's basically Palm Pre. You are talking about one major thing, but ignoring all the other issues about the Palm Pre or features it lacks that other smart phones have that are way more important to users than true multi-tasking"

    1. I apologize if people are apparently that sensitive on here. If you witnessed what I endure at work (I work in a Windows IT shop) when I bring my Mac to work, you would probably cry or have a nervous breakdown. But, I don't cry "Stop insulting me!!!" I just take it in stride and take joy in the fact that they notice my Mac enough to make the comments. I argue back, etc. Just like the Linux guys love to talk crap about Windows and make rude comments. Or, our Cisco guys that have been on a rant ever since Apple is now using iOS which Cisco uses in it's products, also.

    2. What needs to be said? I have read that, too. But, I'm sure that in those same articles they talk about the flaws and quirks that can be overwhelming on the Pre which takes away from the ease of use, etc.

    3. Because you brought up the point that WebOS had 3,000 apps in it's first year vs the iPhone's first year. Who would release a smart phone in 2009 or 2010 and not have apps for it very soon? This is not 2007 when apps on smart phones were not all the rage like they are now. I used the iPad as an example to show that it would be silly to release a device like that or a smart phone and not have apps being available in very short order.

    4. Then how would you describe it?

    Then this...

    followed it up with presumptions and generalizations
    You mean like all the people on here that calls anyone that buys an Apple product sheep? Is that not generalizing? Or stereotyping? I'll let you decide.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    1. I apologize if people are apparently that sensitive on here. If you witnessed what I endure at work (I work in a Windows IT shop) when I bring my Mac to work, you would probably cry or have a nervous breakdown. But, I don't cry "Stop insulting me!!!" I just take it in stride and take joy in the fact that they notice my Mac enough to make the comments. I argue back, etc. Just like the Linux guys love to talk crap about Windows and make rude comments. Or, our Cisco guys that have been on a rant ever since Apple is now using iOS which Cisco uses in it's products, also.

    2. What needs to be said? I have read that, too. But, I'm sure that in those same articles they talk about the flaws and quirks that can be overwhelming on the Pre which takes away from the ease of use, etc.

    3. Because you brought up the point that WebOS had 3,000 apps in it's first year vs the iPhone's first year. Who would release a smart phone in 2009 or 2010 and not have apps for it very soon? This is not 2007 when apps on smart phones were not all the rage like they are now. I used the iPad as an example to show that it would be silly to release a device like that or a smart phone and not have apps being available in very short order.

    4. Then how would you describe it?

    Then this...

    You mean like all the people on here that calls anyone that buys an Apple product sheep? Is that not generalizing? Or stereotyping? I'll let you decide.
    1. If you understand it because you experience it at work, then why do it to others? Just stop, and respect other's opinions. Disagree, if you want. Its all good.. just no personal insults.. we all get more out of rational thoughts and intelligent discussions than insulting someone because they don't see it your way. Make your case, and let the readers make up their mind. Who knows, maybe you can actually provide logic to the discussion that others find value in?

    2. WebOS was never indicated as "flawed".. the Pre and Pixi were.. hardware build and design quality issues. This isn't about that, though. And, BTW, the Pre's "ease of use" has never been compromised any more than any other phone with hardware issues.. has nothing to do with the OS.

    3. I was trying to understand what you meant by"polished" - and I could not fathom what you were talking about, so I took the two most relevant issues - bugs and apps.. to show you how this is a flawed logic. The iPhone's success was incredible, and related to great showmanship and marketting, and a new take on an existing technology (the smartphone already in play.. the Treo). Apple took thier ipod and made it into a cell phone, in thier own style, and changed the way people looked at the smartphone - but, that was hardly a complete first product... and it took a year for them to get thier apps going.. Palm did it with WebOS, from scratch, within 3 months to get thier first apps available, and that is a great feat, IMO, a success, NOT a failure, especially in competition with Apples domination of the market.

    4. I call it what I called it: irrelevant. As for what others say here.. I can't answer for them, nor do I want to.. I myself am a huge advocate/patron of WebOS because of its innovative and purely intuitive design - hats an evaluation I made based on comparisons to existing products in the market.. I dont put other systems down, but, rather, I choose what I believe works best for me - I personally do NOT like iOS (webOS has spoiled me rotten).. but you won't see me calling thier users "sheep".. I just think that many of them would switch if they experience WebOS on a solid piece of hardware, versus the current WebOS users, who have tried all other OS's and STILL choose the inferior build/design quality hardware of the Pre/Pixi over any versioon of the IPhone because the OS is just THAT superior for them to use.. which is quite the statement, if you ask me. If you want proof of this, just ask any Pre/Pixi owner on this site...

    IMO, of course.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 07/05/2010 at 06:19 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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