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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    [B]I get the feeling that a lot more free iOS apps are coming.
    Probably. Unfortunately, this may mean that developers don't bother to make a non-ad supported version at all. I hope it doesn't go that way, or that someone writes a jailbreak app to block the ads.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Not even worth my time. (short enough where one quote will do?)_

    ACtully eff it. i'm not going to try to quote each your points cause i simply disagree with a lot of them.

    But here you go.

    iPod, hands down the most popular MP3 player out now.

    My theory: No MP3 player within the near future will outsell an iPod in a qurter.

    Reason: Cause its an iPod. Its attached to iTunes which people are familiar with. Most people don't even know of other mp3 players and you can't say because there aren't other quality players in the market. I left the iPod line 2 years ago and never looked back.

    The issue is, its because most people after they lose their ipod or it breaks...just buys a new one. They are comfortable and familiar with it and it DOES work. So most wonder why test something new (esp. if they know nothing about it).

    I argue iPhones are viewed the same way.


    No need to to quote my post up an down if you disagree...just my thought.
    You seem frustrated.

    Before the iPod existed there was Rio, Olympus, iRiver, Sony, Creative, and other companies that made MP3 players.

    According to you,

    Most people don't even know of other mp3 players and you can't say because there aren't other quality players in the market.
    But, back in 2001 the iPod was not known and there were already major companies out there selling MP3 players. It took Apple a whole 3 years to even sell the first one million iPods. So, why is it that an unknown product was able to push out all these established companies in the MP3 market and go on to own it? How the iPod started in the beginning and took over the market does not jibe with what I quoted from you above.

    So most wonder why test something new (esp. if they know nothing about it).

    I argue iPhones are viewed the same way.
    Before 2007 Nokia was the King AND Queen of the cell phone world. They could do no wrong and was the market leader in every cell phone category from the cheapest candy bar to the top of the line smart phone. Sony-Ericsson was also a major competitor in the cell phone world. I'll also include Palm and their 30,000 apps and ecosystem and WinMobile and all the apps that were out for that platform.

    Again, according to what I quoted from you above. IF what you said was true, care to explain how Apple, a nobody in the cell phone world in 2007, went on to become a dominating force in the cell phone world. Nokia has lost significant market share, Sony-Ericsson, who?, WinMobile is a disaster, and Palm is now a subsidiary of HP.

    Any company can overtake a market leader or leaders IF they bring out a product that is significantly better than the competition. Including people starting over with a new ecosystem just like all the people that had Palm and WinMobile apps and had to buy them all over again when they moved to the iPhone.

    That's what Apple did. As Steve Jobs has said "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it's been". To back up that quote, remember the Apple digital hub strategy back then? Where the Mac was in the center and everything connected to the Mac. From the internet connection, to the iLife applications, to the iTunes store. It all needed the Mac to function and it helped to condition people on how to organize and consume all this digital media that people were being exposed to or creating.

    So, while Apple was showing the world how to get things done in this new digital world. The other tech companies were busy shouting "BUT, OUR MP3 PLAYER HAS THIS RANDOM FEATURE, OR THAT RANDOM SPEC THAT THE IPOD DOESN'T" Crap, that just went right over the consumers head. Because, although these product may have had better specs or a unique feature. They didn't tell the consumer how it was going to make their daily lives easier. Well, Apple actually did tell them how their products would make their life easier. Then they brought out the Apple Stores with the different zones of home, pro, photos, music, movies, and kids. Further reinforcing how Apple's digital hub can work for the consumer.

    So, moral of the story. If a tech company out there can come up with where the puck will be next, they can knock Apple out of the way. Just as Apple knocked those established companies and their ecosystems out of the way with the iPod and iPhone.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    Additionally, once you've started buying into the infrastructure, it makes less and less financial sense to switch from that iPod. Gonna replace your dock/docks, car charger, wall chargers, movies and games?

    On a side note regarding docks - my stereo came with a dock for an iPod/iPhone. No option for anything else... no Android, Pre, Blackberry, etc. Just the i. Another hurdle for anyone else.
    Do you know how many times Apple has made a slight change to the iPod line over the years to where previous accessories didn't work anymore? You should do some searching on iLounge and see some of the rage that people had when Apple made it impossible to use certain cables to output the video from the iPod to a different screen. They did that because those manufacturers didn't pay Apple the licensing fee so that the accessory could say "Made for iPod". Or, how some old Apple docks wouldn't work with the new iPod or iPhone. Or, currently with the new bumper for the iPhone and docking and charging cables and the old cables from Apple are about a millimeter to wide for the bumper making them unusable. Or, new case for new iProduct.

    People spend just as much on accessories for the new iProduct as they would if they were to move to a new platform. They just need a compelling reason to move away from the iProducts.

    On a side note, according to your logic I guess no one has ever moved from a Nintendo 64 to the Play Station to the Xbox to the Wii. They just kept that original game system because they don't want to have to buy new games all over again. Right?
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    iPhone Developer Brags: $1,400 In iAd Revenue In One Day At $150 eCPM
    Dan Frommer | Jul. 8, 2010, 1:43 PM


    Apple's iAds have started rolling out, and at least one iPhone developer is enjoying early returns, boasting of making $1,400 in ad revenue on the first day.
    San Diego-based Jason Ting started selling an app yesterday that turns the LED camera flash on the iPhone 4 into a flashlight. The free version of the app is supported by Apple's iAds, and with 9,000 downloads yesterday, made it into the no. 8 spot of free utilities, Ting tells us. Not bad!
    More impressive: The amount of money he claims to have made from Apple's iAds yesterday. He posted this screenshot -- presumably of an iAd dashboard --
    Read more: iPhone Developer Brags: $1,400 In iAd Revenue In One Day At $150 eCPM


    I get the feeling that a lot more free iOS apps are coming.
    Since this thread is about iPhone calling the shots...

    The new iAd looks very nice for an ad. I've seen the videos of how iAd works and it looks very good and stays out of the way in the bottom of the app until the user decides to click on it.

    Makes you wonder why Palm or some other cell phone manufacturer didn't think of this before Apple? The 60% that Apple gets of the ad revenue could have helped Palm a lot and the 40% to developers would bring in better quality apps for Palm for free or reduced cost.

    Just another example of Apple being ahead of the curve.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Since this thread is about iPhone calling the shots...

    The new iAd looks very nice for an ad. I've seen the videos of how iAd works and it looks very good and stays out of the way in the bottom of the app until the user decides to click on it.

    Makes you wonder why Palm or some other cell phone manufacturer didn't think of this before Apple? The 60% that Apple gets of the ad revenue could have helped Palm a lot and the 40% to developers would bring in better quality apps for Palm for free or reduced cost.

    Just another example of Apple being ahead of the curve.
    Speaking of iAd, this is pretty amazing:

    However, I watched Google's I/O videos and they have some pretty cool stuff dropping with advertisements as well.
  6. #86  
    Googled showed off their interactive ads before Apple did.


    I'm sure they were both working on it at the same time.
  7. #87  
    probably the wrong place to post this, but this is the newest Apple effort to leverage the app store and the enthusiasm of their user base. I still haven't stopped laughing:

    New Apple Friend Bar Gives Customers Someone To Talk At About Mac Products | The Onion - America's Finest News Source | Onion News Network
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    The iPhone is Beta and the Palm Pre is VHS. This time people are picking Beta the superior product.

    You're in serious denial if you think the Palm Pre is in the same category as the iPhone.

    I have a co-worker that has a Palm Pre and he has all kinds of quirks with it, that his wife never has to deal with on her iPhone (he is anti-Apple). I have held his Pre and the hardware quality does not begin to compare to the superior iPhone hardware quality. The OS on the iPhone is way more polished than the Pre. Not to mention the lack of quality apps for the Palm Pre and basically no ecosystem for the Palm Pre.

    And you think the Palm Pre is the better phone because it has true multi-tasking, while ignoring all the other issues about the Pre?
    You have a friend that has one, and you actually held it? Wow, you are definitely an expert then. I guess I'll have to get rid of mine...

    /sarcasm.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    An also-ran OS that nobody ever heard of and that few developers bother targeting isn't a differentiating feature. As far as I'm concerned, we have already seen what webOS is capable of in the marketplace and it cost Palm the company.
    It "cost" Palm the company???? Is that really your contention.

    Was was Palm as a company before they introduced WebOS. Stock was about $1 a share in December 2008, and the company was all but dead. Compare that to where they ended up.

    Now, once can argue (though I would disagree) that WebOS didn't really save Palm, but to say it cost the company? Hardly.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    ...
    In hindsight, if Palm took more time in doing things maybe they would have been a lot more successful in the Pre launch and not be in the situation they are in now.
    ...
    Actually, you're displaying your ignorance of Palm's sitation on this one. If Palm had taken more time with WebOS, they would have been out of busines. Many argue they took too long as it was.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    ...
    I distinctly remember Rubinstein only ever talking about the iPhone when talking about the competition. He even went so far to say that the Pre should cost more than the iPhone since he thought the Pre was a better product.
    ...
    That may be your memory, but it's not fact. I remember several interviews where he talked about BB as well. He also said several times that they only want' a part of the growing smartphone market, that they did not need to dominate the market.

    Your memory, like much of the other information you are posting, is selective at best.

    I especially had to smile at the notion that Apple always waits to do things right. Would you like a list of their failures? I've been in the business a while, and I can give you examples.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    When Palm's stock was $1 it was a company. Now it's a subsidiary. Somewhere in-between it got an infusion of cash, launched a couple of products that didn't take, burned through some more money, and then quickly sold itself when it became obvious that it was going to burn through the rest of it.

    Clearly, Palm's future as a company depended on the success of the Pre and Pixi. Since both products failed in the market I would say it cost Palm the company. PALM, the stock, has been delisted.
    Nope, your assessment is incorrect. After the infusion of cash, Elevation partners still made a profit. It did not "cost" the company, it made the "company" a profit.

    WebOS saved Palm. I understand that your view is different, but reality doesn't jibe with your view.

    If being a subsidary of another company means that Palm failed, then they did so a long time ago, well before WebOS, back when US Robotics bought them out.
  13. #93  
    Welcome back hparsons....missed ya!
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    Welcome back hparsons....missed ya!
    Oh, I've been here, just on the main forum most of the time. Today was a slow day at work, if/when earning a living starts getting in the way again, I'll probably quieten down some again.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, you're displaying your ignorance of Palm's sitation on this one. If Palm had taken more time with WebOS, they would have been out of busines. Many argue they took too long as it was.
    The only ignorance is the ignorance of Palm's management team at the time for releasing the Pre in the condition it was in.

    If they couldn't do what they needed to do then they could have put themselves up for sale. Or continued on developing the Pre and asking the creditors to keep them afloat until the Pre was finished completely and ready for release. Or, file for bankruptcy.

    That's what smart executives would have done.

    But, in the end what did Palm get? NOTHING. Now the WebOS brand has been incredibly damaged because of the crappy hardware and an OS that is not totally finished and many quirks.

    Palm still got sold. Now, HP has the difficult task of getting the cell carriers to want to carry another WebOS device after all the multiple returns of the Pre with all the hardware issues. And in an iPhone and Android world, trying to convince consumers to buy a WebOS phone in the future.

    I'm sure if Palm could go back in time, they would have taken way more time to release the Palm Pre. Seriously, if the Pre was all that you think it is. They could have went to a venture capitalist and told them about what they had planned, but lacking in money to finish it completely. A venture capitalist's job is to find rich investors for exciting new products that need to get released. Don't you think some rich investor(s) could have invested in the company so that this wonderful product would have gotten released the correct way and that rich investor could set back and watch his investment skyrocket?
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/09/2010 at 05:13 PM.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    That may be your memory, but it's not fact. I remember several interviews where he talked about BB as well. He also said several times that they only want' a part of the growing smartphone market, that they did not need to dominate the market.

    Your memory, like much of the other information you are posting, is selective at best.

    I especially had to smile at the notion that Apple always waits to do things right. Would you like a list of their failures? I've been in the business a while, and I can give you examples.
    Really? Well, read this article...

    Palm Unveils Its iPhone Rival: The Pre. Don’t Expect to Buy One Cheap. | Peter Kafka | MediaMemo | AllThingsD

    I'll quote a couple of things from the article.

    Yes, there was talk about the Blackberry...

    And there was no talk about corporate email compatibility–they’re clearly not shooting for the hardcore BlackBerry user, either.
    Talked about NOT shooting for the hardcore BlackBerry user. Looks like someone is WRONG!!!.

    Then, read this little snippet...

    The biggest unknown is price, which went unmentioned during the demo. My assumption is that Palm (PALM) would try to take market share by coming in significantly lower than the $200 or so Apple wants for its iPhone. But when I ran that theory by Palm CEO Ed Colligan, he looked at me liked I’d peed on his rug. “Why would we do that when we have a significantly better product,” he asked, then walked away.
    Seems to me like he was talking about the iPhone. Is my memory still selective?

    I especially had to smile at the notion that Apple always waits to do things right. Would you like a list of their failures? I've been in the business a while, and I can give you examples.
    Yep, Apple had some flops. Here's an article for you to look at them.

    Learning From Failure: Apple's Most Notorious Flops

    What company doesn't make a flop every so often?

    But, a commenter from the article did say this about Apple's flops.

    It's crazy how all of Apple's horrible failures were from radical ideas, but at the same time their radical ideas is what makes them great. I guess that's the price of being a pioneer, you can't win em all....
    Unlike Palm that did a very bad job hardware wise on a basic smartphone design when many other smart phone manufacturers have done it numerous times with a similar design.

    What I am talking about with Apple is like the stuff mentioned in this article.

    Marco.org - Great since day one

    See the way Apple does things versus everyone else?
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/09/2010 at 05:21 PM.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    ...
    If they couldn't do what they needed to do then they could have put themselves up for sale. Or continued on developing the Pre and asking the creditors to keep them afloat until the Pre was finished completely and ready for release. Or, file for bankruptcy...
    Or, they could have released the product, give it a run, and hope for the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    ...But, in the end what did Palm get? NOTHING. Now the WebOS brand has been incredibly damaged because of the crappy hardware and an OS that is not totally finished and many quirks...
    Wrong. They got bought out at a small profit to the original investors.

    I'm sure if Palm could go back in time, they would have taken way more time to release the Palm Pre. Seriously, if the Pre was all that you think it is. They could have went to a venture capitalist and told them about what they had planned, but lacking in money to finish it completely. A venture capitalist's job is to find rich investors for exciting new products that need to get released. Don't you think some rich investor(s) could have invested in the company so that this wonderful product would have gotten released the correct way and that rich investor could set back and watch his investment skyrocket?[/QUOTE]
    You are again either displaying your ignorance about the subject, or ignoring the facts. Do you not think Palm had already "went" to venture capitalists? What do you think Elevation Partners does as a business???

    Wow. Seriously.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Really? Well, read this article...

    Palm Unveils Its iPhone Rival: The Pre. Don’t Expect to Buy One Cheap. | Peter Kafka | MediaMemo | AllThingsD

    I'll quote a couple of things from the article.

    Yes, there was talk about the Blackberry...
    ...?
    Sorry, finding one article where the commentator interpreted what he said doesn't support your contention that all he talked about was the iPhone when talking about the competition...

    Let's review what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I distinctly remember Rubinstein only ever talking about the iPhone when talking about the competition...
    I maintain your memory is wrong. Here's one where he's talking about Blackberry as the competition:
    With the Verizon (VZN) launch, we did the training for Verizon that we would typically do, and that obviously was insufficient, given that the Verizon salespeople had spent years selling Research in Motion's (RIMM) Blackberry and a tremendous amount of effort and energy training on Droid. They got this third new thing which was just completely different and didn't know what to do with it.
    Obviously, he's talking about BB as competition, or he wouldn't have mentioned them here. There are others, but that will do. Only takes one exception to disprove an absolute.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Or, they could have released the product, give it a run, and hope for the best.


    Wrong. They got bought out at a small profit to the original investors.

    I'm sure if Palm could go back in time, they would have taken way more time to release the Palm Pre. Seriously, if the Pre was all that you think it is. They could have went to a venture capitalist and told them about what they had planned, but lacking in money to finish it completely. A venture capitalist's job is to find rich investors for exciting new products that need to get released. Don't you think some rich investor(s) could have invested in the company so that this wonderful product would have gotten released the correct way and that rich investor could set back and watch his investment skyrocket?
    You are again either displaying your ignorance about the subject, or ignoring the facts. Do you not think Palm had already "went" to venture capitalists? What do you think Elevation Partners does as a business???

    Wow. Seriously.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, know about them and the whole Bono investment and how he was considered the world's worst investor and Elevation Partners not being that good at what they do. Read all about it here...

    Bono Becomes The Worst Investor In America - 24/7 Wall St.

    Not ignoring facts. So, after EP investors gave all they could give, is there some law that says that only one VC firm and it's clients can invest in a company? Seems to me that no one else wanted to risk their funds on Palm. As I said originally if they had no other resources, they should have put the company up for sale or go into bankruptcy. Rather than releasing the Pre in the state that they did.
  20. #100  
    "had already went"
    I'm think not.

    (I didn't know who to quote, so that sarcastic response is to the person that typed "had already went" in the previous post...

    Ps. We need to stop slamming the hardware. I like my Pre. A lot. If I liked something better, I'd buy it. And if you watch those HTC-Aria ads, notice they are talking about small size as a good thing... there are plenty of us that don't want a phone the size of a Garmin GPS (4.3")

    ...and plenty of us that want a physical keyboard. The biggest issue with the Pre is the total dependence on plastic in order to get the top part to wrap around as one piece with no frame. It made for a smooth shape and less wasted space, but it prevented the "solid" feel of the type of plastic found on a blackberry or other more rugged device.

    Palm was very public about trying to differentiate by shooting for a smaller size, vertical keyboard, smoother look, etc. I'm not saying they made the right call, but they were looking to be radical in the same way the PalmVx was back in the day (PalmVx was designed by the same people that designed the origional iMac, BTW) which was was successful and highly praised.

    Want me to back that up? Look at the sliders Dell and BlackBerry are coming out with... Personally, I think the new slider that BlackBerry is about to launch is a better hardware design than the Pre, but you have to give Palm kudos for taking risks... and remember that 18 months ago no one thought it was a bad idea... until Oreo and usb cracks started to happen.

    I also don't think Palm should (or could) take longer to get the Pre out. Nothing about the Pre says they rushed it to market... in fact the innovations I mentioned above (top as one continuous piece, etc) took a great deal of effort to design and source for parts. I agree they didn't make the best choices, but they certainly took some bold risks.

    I Believe that the reason it took Palm so long to get the Pre out and start to enhance it was because they didn't originally head down the webOS path (it was somewhat of a skunk works) so they had to change directions, and they had to get enough in to webOS to make it a decent phone. They also chose to make it open-source friendly and based on a very future -proof foundation, which they definitely did. They knew they had one shot, and they made really good architectural decisions. But with limited resources, they didn't have time to complete the "house" on top of that foundation. Thanks to that foundation, the homebrewers have been able to add tremendous value to the platform - hence the rabid following by people that understand the true elegance of webOS architecture. The same is also true of the architectural brilliance of Preware and the entire home-brew community. It's easy to forget how good they are.

    So, Palm struggled because they didn't launch a phone with feature parity to their previous Treo/Centro line (which I hope they fix by the time 2.0 happens) and horrible/horrible/horrible marketing for a product launched on the #3 carrier. If they had done a good job of marketing and and launched on VZ first.... things might be different. But, you can imagine that VZ wasn't prepared to take that risk and Sprint prides itself on having the latest handsets before anyone else...

    All that to say... saying Palm should have taken more time doesn't understand that they would have failed worse by taking more time, and it wouldn't have changed their hardware choices because they were very intentional choices - however misguided history proves them to be...

    my two cents...
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/09/2010 at 07:21 PM.
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