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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Cardfan - It sounds like you want HP to try to out-Apple Apple. The only way I can see HP wanting to do this is if they can offer a cheaper iPhone-like line of phones and an iPad-like line of tablets. Kind of like those Envy notebooks are to Macbooks. Except that HP notebooks run the most popular desktop OS whereas HP smartphones and tablets will run one of the least popular OS's. I'm not sure who why anyone would want to buy a me-too smartphone with a less popular OS unless it was on a dirt-cheap plan or unless they had some irrational Apple aversion.
    I don't see those as "me too" moves for Apple. That's the smartphone market these days. 720p is a basic requirement for a flagship these days, and Apple damn sure didn't set that bar first. Same goes for screens bigger than 3.5-inches.

    Fact is - thanks partly to Apple - you cannot compete in the consumer market these days without a feature set like that or a name brand cache like Blackberry. HPalm has neither, which is why they are getting trounced.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Cardfan - It sounds like you want HP to try to out-Apple Apple. The only way I can see HP wanting to do this is if they can offer a cheaper iPhone-like line of phones and an iPad-like line of tablets. Kind of like those Envy notebooks are to Macbooks. Except that HP notebooks run the most popular desktop OS whereas HP smartphones and tablets will run one of the least popular OS's. I'm not sure who why anyone would want to buy a me-too smartphone with a less popular OS unless it was on a dirt-cheap plan or unless they had some irrational Apple aversion.
    It's what i'd like to see, but i've no clue what HP is up to. But yeah, out-apple Apple. Someone needs to. The android approach is death by monkeys. Another day, another android slab running an out of date OS version with an update promised in 6 months.
  3. #63  
    That's a little silly. Google JUST pushed 2.2 to Nexus Ones. Almost every other modern Android handset has 2.1. Pretty much every app runs on that. How is it "outdated"?
  4. #64  
    Just because its not the latest OS doesn't mean its out of date. Thats just in the minds of tech heads which is insane.

    Its ilke saying anrdoid 2.1 is useless and you'll never get the next update ever. The normal consumers don't need to update their software that works already the day its out for another phone. They just don't.

    The pace that android phones are being activated (160K per DAY) is testament to that. Android isn't trying to be iPhone..its going in a different direction and they have their market. iPhone has their market.

    Where is WebOS' market? Its literally Precentral. Thats the upsetting part. The phone and OS just never caught on and it'll only be uphill from here regardless of how much money HP can put behind it.
  5. urkel's Avatar
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I know you feel serious about that. But i think tablets (and i really hate calling them that) are a bit of a fad right now. Meaning it'll simmer down.
    I agree with you partially. The tablet form is a very niche product, but what I believe in is the minimalistic approach to portable computing. And WebOS seems like they have the biggest head start in this area because of the multitasking, keyboard requirement and now HP name. I guess it's "Folio Revisited" to say this, but why not just toss out a 10" WebOS touchscreen netbook?

    An HP WebOS netbook can be made for cheap with an already existing OS and the HP210 enclosure is already thin and sexy so a $249 WebOS device would definitely turn heads. And if that is successful it may even erase all the Pre-era negativity currently associated with WebOS because even if they release a new phone now, the carriers and customers have been burned so badly that, even if it looked great, not many people would be willing to risk investing in it.
    Last edited by Urkel; 07/07/2010 at 11:23 AM.
  6. #66  
    I'm exaggerating a bit so don't be too offended. Android isn't for me but you're right. The average consumer doesn't know what version and frankly doesn't care. To be even more honest, i'm not sure the fact its an android even matters. It's a slab..it's a smartphone, kinda looks like an iphone with bigger screens and its on their carrier. That's what matters.

    That's both good and bad. Android phones are filling a big void...for example 80million on verizon and no iphone..but they need to buy something right? But whether people are that loyal or not to any android brand is probably debatable.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    I agree with you partially. The tablet form is a very niche product, but what I believe in is the minimalistic approach to portable computing. And WebOS seems like they have the biggest head start in this area because of the multitasking, keyboard requirement and now HP name. I guess it's "Folio Revisited" to say this, but why not just toss out a 10" WebOS touchscreen netbook?

    An HP WebOS netbook can be made for cheap with an already existing OS and the HP210 enclosure is already thin and sexy so a $249 WebOS device would definitely turn heads. And if that is successful it may even erase all the Pre-era negativity currently associated with WebOS because even if they release a new phone now, the carriers and customers have been burned so badly that, even if it looked great, not many people would be willing to risk investing in it.
    The iPad isn't just something they just cobbled up and threw out there. It's the result of millions of other iOS devices out in the wild all of which integrate their ipod. It takes advantage of their successful app store and ecosystem using itunes.

    HP can put webOS on a tablet and offer it in several different sizes and cute colors. But there's hardly an ecosystem besides the anemic app catalog. I suppose it could be a better kindle/cheaper ipad if HP can convince amazon to make a kindle app for it.
  8. bsoder's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Just because its not the latest OS doesn't mean its out of date. Thats just in the minds of tech heads which is insane.

    Its ilke saying anrdoid 2.1 is useless and you'll never get the next update ever. The normal consumers don't need to update their software that works already the day its out for another phone. They just don't.
    Android has the perception of always being "almost out of date" because there's always a better phone two weeks away. Not really a problem for the mass market, other than some confusion when making the initial purchase.

    Joe: "Should I buy this Droid?"

    Matt (Joe's techie friend): "No, the Droid 2 will be out next week."

    Joe: "So I should wait until I can get that?"

    Matt: "Well, or you could wait for the Droid X. Or, you could buy the Evo. Or the Incredible."

    Joe: "What's the difference?"

    Matt: *spews five minutes of technical gobbledy****, Joe's eyes glaze over after thirty seconds*

    Joe: *buys an iPhone*
  9. #69  
    ha!
  10. #70  
    Doesn't seem to be what's happening, given the trajectory of Android.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Doesn't seem to be what's happening, given the trajectory of Android.
    Maybe i should quit saying Android. What i really mean are the manufacturers such as HTC, Moto, Dell, etc. Saying android is lumping them together.

    It's important to note that not all of them are doing the same thing or will all be as successful as say..HTC. Moto is trying to stick to a Droid branding. Dell seems to have one brand for now. Samsung has taken one and split it into 4 different sub brands.

    If HP wanted to litter the market with cheap phones, then they should've just joined the android gang. But they didn't. They bought Palm instead. And if remotely serious about smartphones, that means they have every intention of going all in developing an ecosytem, expanding the app catalog, the whole 9 yards.

    It remains to be seen how they approach things.
  12. #72  
    Can i be candid about HP and my thoughts?

    The phone business its not a serious venture for HP's CEO.

    He has said many times he is more interested in WebOS for web connected devices. I think he's going to let Palm have their "fun" in the mobile space, but if they don't become competitive, I can easily see HP lowering the mobile phone budget.

    They just don't sound excited about phones. Honestly, that was kinda my last straw....i hope i'm proven wrong but when you no longer have confidence in a company why sit around and worry?
  13. bsoder's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    If HP wanted to litter the market with cheap phones, then they should've just joined the android gang. But they didn't. They bought Palm instead. And if remotely serious about smartphones, that means they have every intention of going all in developing an ecosytem, expanding the app catalog, the whole 9 yards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    The phone business its not a serious venture for HP's CEO.

    He has said many times he is more interested in WebOS for web connected devices. I think he's going to let Palm have their "fun" in the mobile space, but if they don't become competitive, I can easily see HP lowering the mobile phone budget.
    I really really hope cardfan is right and BrainM is wrong, but I afraid it's not going to turn out that way. I have a bad feeling the next device I get with webos in it (if I ever do) is going to be a printer.
  14. #74  
    I believe a lot of this has to do with the hardware that Palm put out. They wanted to offer a small footprint with a lot of eye candy in it. They did but the hardware is cheap! I however won't let that stop me from owning a Pre. I can't wait for the next hardware of course, but I won't jump ship.... Other OSs out there just don't compare. I tried the EVO and Android is just not for me. Too vanilla for my taste.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Can I add something here.

    I think even with money it will take something brilliant for Palm/HP to get consumer mindshare again. Look how long it took with Android and that was with a vast array of devices.

    But also, what else does Palm have to leverage interest?

    Apple has its iTunes and App Store.
    Android has all the google services.
    Microsoft has name recognition and xbox live.

    Palm has.....?

    People still don't know what the Palm Pre is when they see my phone. How are they going to let people know and/or care?
    Palm HAD a solid business reputation. But they destroyed it with the release of WebOS. Instead of building on TOP of there business apps they gutted them.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    Palm HAD a solid business reputation. But they destroyed it with the release of WebOS. Instead of building on TOP of there business apps they gutted them.
    Palm HAD a solid business reputation no further past 2005. They ***** the bucket with PalmOS and sat back and let everything they had just fall apart.

    WebOS was actually a GOOD business move but it just didn't succeed as they were hoping.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Just to kinda step in.

    Lets also remember Apple has such a stronge hype/following that it doesn't really have to be a "revolutionary" product.

    I still find little reason to own an iPad...but at least its well made.

    You could have just as well made of a product from another company and here are the facts...it simply won't have mass market hype from normal media outlets nor will it have herds of people lining up to get one.

    Apple has developed into that kind of company (well they always had a huge cult following back in the 90s) but now you have mothers and non tech people waiting in line for an iPhone 4.

    That didn't just happen from quality products...cause a lot of companies make quality products. That happens from carefully crafted marketing and secrecy along with quality products.

    And i'll say what i always say about the iPhone....no other phone will have day one sales like the iPhone. At least not anytime soon. No other company has that kind of mindshare right now.
    Contrary to what you and so many others think, the masses (sheep to people on PreCentral) don't go out and buy every product that has an Apple logo on it. Have you ever heard of Apple TV? All the hype you think Apple can generate didn't generate any good sales for Apple TV.

    I still find little reason to own an iPad...but at least its well made.
    I find NO reason to own a SUV, but millions of them are sold every year. Your point?

    You could have just as well made of a product from another company and here are the facts...it simply won't have mass market hype from normal media outlets nor will it have herds of people lining up to get one.
    The only two product lines that I have ever seen people line up for in advance from Apple is the iPhone and the iPad. Ironically, the two products that are just better all around than the competition for the typical consumer (notice I said typical consumer and not geeks) and more importantly, competitively priced compared to the competition.

    People want them immediately and they know that if they don't camp out at the stores or pre-order they will be waiting until more stock gets in. Like currently, the iPhone has a 3 week wait at the Apple store and the iPad after being out for over 3 months still has a 7 - 10 day wait. Nothing unusual of consumers wanting for products that Apple can't keep in stock.

    Of course the media is going to report on anything unusual and seeing a bunch of people camp out at a retailer for a phone is not exactly normal. News reporters don't report on stuff that is normal, nobody would watch that.

    Apple has developed into that kind of company (well they always had a huge cult following back in the 90s) but now you have mothers and non tech people waiting in line for an iPhone 4.
    Because who else caters to the mothers and non tech people? Android? Nope. Palm? Can you just imagine a typical mom interacting with the Home brew community to get her Pre to do things or fix issues that should have been resolved before the Pre was released? The answer would be no. So, leaves Apple to get all those customers that don't care about technology and just want their stuff to work. Just like an appliance, like a toaster. Apple builds appliances better than the competition and thats what moms and non tech people want.

    Furthermore, have you not seen the iPhone 4 in person with that retina display? Who wouldn't want to camp out for that? That phone just looks so much better than any other phone currently out there.

    That didn't just happen from quality products...cause a lot of companies make quality products. That happens from carefully crafted marketing and secrecy along with quality products.
    And a lot of those quality products from other companies cost a lot more than the cheaper stuff that most people buy. Perfect example: a Rolls Royce that is hand made and screams quality in materials and craftsmanship will easily set you back $200,000+. But do you see people lining up to buy one when a new model comes out? No, because they can't afford it.

    Think about it, people only line up for a new iPhone or now the iPad. Two products that cost about the same as similar products in their class. The iPhone and iPad are better products than the competition, but cost about the same as the competition.

    When Apple released their latest MacBook Pro 15.4" that starts at $1800 did you see people lining up to buy them? Wanna know why? Because there are tons of other laptops out there that costs a lot less than $1800. Those MacBook Pros are quality, but they are not going to sell anywhere near as many as HP will sell of the Compaq Presario CQ62Z series starting at $380. So, it's not just because of "carefully crafted marketing and secrecy". It's the simple fact that the Apple products that people do line up for cost about the same as the competition. Price trumps quality any day of the week.

    And i'll say what i always say about the iPhone....no other phone will have day one sales like the iPhone. At least not anytime soon. No other company has that kind of mindshare right now.
    Until someone beats Apple at their game, so true. But, read this article that someone else mentioned on here...

    Marco.org - Great since day one

    and you will see that Apple will keep outdoing the cell phone competition for a while...
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/07/2010 at 08:54 PM.
  18. #78  
    Not even worth my time. (short enough where one quote will do?)_

    ACtully eff it. i'm not going to try to quote each your points cause i simply disagree with a lot of them.

    But here you go.

    iPod, hands down the most popular MP3 player out now.

    My theory: No MP3 player within the near future will outsell an iPod in a qurter.

    Reason: Cause its an iPod. Its attached to iTunes which people are familiar with. Most people don't even know of other mp3 players and you can't say because there aren't other quality players in the market. I left the iPod line 2 years ago and never looked back.

    The issue is, its because most people after they lose their ipod or it breaks...just buys a new one. They are comfortable and familiar with it and it DOES work. So most wonder why test something new (esp. if they know nothing about it).

    I argue iPhones are viewed the same way.


    No need to to quote my post up an down if you disagree...just my thought.
  19. bsoder's Avatar
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    #79  
    Additionally, once you've started buying into the infrastructure, it makes less and less financial sense to switch from that iPod. Gonna replace your dock/docks, car charger, wall chargers, movies and games?

    On a side note regarding docks - my stereo came with a dock for an iPod/iPhone. No option for anything else... no Android, Pre, Blackberry, etc. Just the i. Another hurdle for anyone else.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    Additionally, once you've started buying into the infrastructure, it makes less and less financial sense to switch from that iPod. Gonna replace your dock/docks, car charger, wall chargers, movies and games?

    On a side note regarding docks - my stereo came with a dock for an iPod/iPhone. No option for anything else... no Android, Pre, Blackberry, etc. Just the i. Another hurdle for anyone else.
    Good point.

    No one is even insulting the iPhone...but to act like the ecosystem isn't a HUGE reason for its continued success would be silly.
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