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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    And yeah, notifications are the number one negative for the iPhone (IMO) now. My negative list used to be a lot longer.
    For those of us in the US, at least, the number one negative for the iPhone is AT&T. If a CDMA iPhone was released on the Sprint network, I'd at least consider it when I eventually move on from my Pre - but there's no way a phone is good enough to overcome the bag of fail AT&T brings everywhere it goes.
  2. bsoder's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    No. Palm OS wouldn't be able to keep up with many aspects of modern smart phnoes. From the Browser to multi-touch to multi-tasking.

    PalmOS however was VERY responsive, but thats also because of how light programs and the OS were. But at the same time, my 755p LOVED resetting itself every 2 days haha.
    Yeah, you're probably right. My last PalmOS phone was the 755p on Verizon; I went from that to the Pre on Sprint. I didn't have reset problems, but I knew others who did - I suppose

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    And yeah, notifications are the number one negative for the iPhone (IMO) now. My negative list used to be a lot longer.
    I just want an app that collects them all and provides a list with links to the various programs that are associated with the alerts. Put some sort of notification up by the battery that indicates un-handled alerts. Something like that would be a huge step forward.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Honestly...they should take their time and make sure whatever they put out is a home run.

    You have Windows Mobile 7 coming out which looks like it has potential. WebOS doesn't have much room to continue with its growing pains. The market is VERY crowded and even Blackberry will have its new OS out by the end of the year.
    Hopefully they will have hardware that is up to par with alot of the droid phones running around. Im tired of a cheaply built phone, let alone all the common palm features that are gone from the pre/pixi. I am somewhat hopeful, but also afraid that they will continue to chase the wrong market (iphone users).
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  4. #44  
    After reading this thread: I can't agree more with Brian Mantis. You've hit the nail right on the head with the Apple is catered to the "lowest common denominator" while Palm is catered to 'techies" argument. WebOS, IMHO, is an unmatched experience... for those who know what they're doing. If I weren't a developer, or wasn't into phones 24/7, I'd probably assume that an iPhone is my best bet. Which is what everyone assumes. Makes perfect sense.

    However, just out of principle, I would never suggest an iPhone to anyone. .

    The other day, for the first time, I used Google maps on my sister's blackberry. It was LIGHTYEARS ahead of WebOS. The map launched INSTANTLY with our current location. Was the GPS better? Was the data handling better? It sure couldn't have been service because I launched my Google Maps sitting 2 feet away and it took me about 30 seconds to do so. Her Google Maps figured out directions instantaneously and scrolling around took less than 3 seconds for the map to load up. Google Maps on WebOS is a NIGHTMARE and I didn't notice it until I used it on blackberry. Sure we can blame Google for that one, but it's true for an overall WebOS experience. Everything is amazing... when it works. While other platforms are pretty good, but they work all the time. If I was an average consumer... I'd want something that worked...
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    After reading this thread: I can't agree more with Brian Mantis. You've hit the nail right on the head with the Apple is catered to the "lowest common denominator" while Palm is catered to 'techies" argument. WebOS, IMHO, is an unmatched experience... for those who know what they're doing. If I weren't a developer, or wasn't into phones 24/7, I'd probably assume that an iPhone is my best bet. Which is what everyone assumes. Makes perfect sense.

    However, just out of principle, I would never suggest an iPhone to anyone. .

    The other day, for the first time, I used Google maps on my sister's blackberry. It was LIGHTYEARS ahead of WebOS. The map launched INSTANTLY with our current location. Was the GPS better? Was the data handling better? It sure couldn't have been service because I launched my Google Maps sitting 2 feet away and it took me about 30 seconds to do so. Her Google Maps figured out directions instantaneously and scrolling around took less than 3 seconds for the map to load up. Google Maps on WebOS is a NIGHTMARE and I didn't notice it until I used it on blackberry. Sure we can blame Google for that one, but it's true for an overall WebOS experience. Everything is amazing... when it works. While other platforms are pretty good, but they work all the time. If I was an average consumer... I'd want something that worked...
    haha thanks.

    Yeah i'd argue my google maps on Treo 755p was much better as well...its the whole issue of Maps being native on android, blackberry, PalmOS and iPhone...while its a glorified web portal on WebOS.


    Btw, they did update it server side where it saves your search history now which is good.

    I found a video of the Treo running google maps:




    It simply runs faster. how disappointing. The sad part is Yp Mobile has bing maps but its native and it loads super fast. Its just not as feature complete (like i use transit maps the most with google maps).
  6. #46  
    Um.. Palm had 30,000 PALM OS apps. There was competition. The reason Apple didn't release it was, i I remember correctly, they didnt have any sort of way to allow others to write programs for their system, nor a system to sell it
    Those 30,000 apps back in 2007 were about as competitive against the iPhone as Apple is a competitor against MS in the enterprise. In other words no competition. The iPhone steam rolled right over Palm and those 30,000 apps.

    Yes, Apple, AS THEY ALWAYS DO, waited until they got their apps system and app store right before they decided to allow people to write apps for the iPhone. Just like they took two years before they put in cut and paste on the iPhone. Or 3 years before they allowed video calling. Nothing new there.

    I dont believe that PALM was competing with only the iPhone, but rather all smartphones, for at least a moderate share of the growing smartphone market.. in that regard, they were the little company with all of the odds stacked against them, and they did so many things right.. except for the HW... but, regardless of how long they were working on WebOS, it doesnt matter - they released the phone and within 3 months, they had applications for public consumption and within 6 months of release, the app store opened.. 6 months after that, there are between 2500 and 3000 apps in the WebOS store, and countless other Homebrew applications as well - no matter how you spin this, they DID accomplish quite a bit more than Apple did given the same place in thier product development timeline, in the face of much challenge and adversity, which Apple didn't have to worry about.
    I distinctly remember Rubinstein only ever talking about the iPhone when talking about the competition. He even went so far to say that the Pre should cost more than the iPhone since he thought the Pre was a better product.

    I'm not trying to spin anything. It was two years later that the did that. Which is eons in tech years. So, it's not all that impressive. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you want to compete in a market in the PRESENT and be SUCCESSful, you need to bring your game. Just like Palm knew they needed to do by having apps ready immediately to compete against the Apple app store in 2009 NOT what it was like in 2007 when an app store on the level of the Apple app store was NOT in existence.

    in that regard, they were the little company with all of the odds stacked against them
    If you were asked in 2008 who would be selling the most tablets in 2010, would you have guessed Apple? The odds say that you would not. But, the reality says that they are and have already sold more iPad so far this year than the ANALysts predicted would be sold in all of 2010.

    If you can't compete with the big dogs, then stay on the porch. Just like Apple can compete against the big dogs in the tablet space, Palm should be able to compete in the smart phone market, or throw in the towel. Oh, they did and gave themselves up to HP.

    As I said, though, this is more about WebOS as an OS.. so lets see the next WebOS devices and how they fare.. should be quite interesting, no?
    Eh. I'm not expecting much excitement. HP is decent in the enterprise. Where I work we only buy HP. BUT, in the consumer space outside of the inkjets and over priced cartridges, they are not that competitive. And if Palm were competitive, they would still be an independent company.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    I don't care about the "WebOS has only been around for a year, it's not fair to compare it to 3rd or 4th gen iOS or Android" arguments - that's the reality of the market now, compete or die. The iPhone doesn't have true multitasking? Neither does webOS, when the "Can't open more cards" error pops up with one or zero cards open.
    I agree, it's a very weak argument. Because all you have to do is look at the unbelievable success of the iPad versus all the other tablets that have been sold over the last 10 years. They have had years to perfect the tablet and get people to buy them, but they never did. Yet, Apple had no problem getting people to buy over 3 million iPad in less than 90 days WITH THEIR FIRST TABLET, EVER. Definitely blows that argument of "WebOS has only been around for a year, it's not fair to compare it to 3rd or 4th gen iOS or Android" right out of the water. That's the difference between a company that is innovative and knows how to make products that consumers WANT to buy and all the has beens that set on the sideline and make excuses.

    Neither does webOS, when the "Can't open more cards" error pops up with one or zero cards open.
    For the OP, that quote above is an perfect example of what I say when people keep screaming, but the Pre has TRUE multi-tasking while ignoring the other more important flaws that the Pre has.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    On the other hand, when I open something it opens quickly - I can take photos quickly. Maps come up immediately. On my Pre, I'd take a picture, then have to wait thirty seconds while it did... something
    For anyone, is this what you consider TRUE multi-tasking? Please explain to me how that is making me get more things accomplished on the Palm Pre versus Apple's way of multi-tasking with issues like that.

    Which comes back to what I have already said. The Palm Pre has flaws that are more important in getting fixed than the true multi-tasking.
  9. urkel's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    On the other hand, when I open something it opens quickly - I can take photos quickly. Maps come up immediately. On my Pre, I'd take a picture, then have to wait thirty seconds while it did... something?
    People are very quick to blame the hardware for all of Pre's slowdown and bugginess but why does the OS get a free pass? There's an assumption that IF WebOS was on EVO class hardware then it would be awesome, but since we've only seen it on two devices then who's to say the WebOS problems aren't the OS itself?

    Maybe a month ago I'd say HP should rush a product out in order to stay relevant. But at this point they've fallen so far out of the game that skipping a generation or even scrapping smartphones and pushing resources to tablets and markets with actual customers isnt a bad idea.
    Last edited by Urkel; 07/07/2010 at 01:03 AM.
  10. #50  
    For those that think Apple is all that, and believe that the iPhone App Store is the promised land... check out this little scam:

    Apple Boots Fraudster from iTunes Store
  11. bsoder's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    For those that think Apple is all that, and believe that the iPhone App Store is the promised land... check out this little scam:

    Apple Boots Fraudster from iTunes Store
    How is this relevant to this discussion?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    How is this relevant to this discussion?
    Well, did you join the mattress tag police? The point is that the OP says apple is driving stuff, and I'm showing they have a serious breach in there most acclaimed asset. Let me know if you aren't ok with that, and I'll have myself frawn and quartered.
  13. #53  
    Re: GoogleMaps:

    On my Palm Pre+, WiFi on, Uberkernal and Govna at "screeenstate", Googlemaps flies open. About 2-3 seconds, tops, with my current location clearly and completely displayed.

    Its the connection first, and then the processor speed second - remember, Im on T-Mobile running the ATT version, so I don't get 3g - whenever possible, I have to use WiFi, or fall back onto EVDO, which, BTW, isnt so bad!

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    People are very quick to blame the hardware for all of Pre's slowdown and bugginess but why does the OS get a free pass? There's an assumption that IF WebOS was on EVO class hardware then it would be awesome, but since we've only seen it on two devices then who's to say the WebOS problems aren't the OS itself?

    Maybe a month ago I'd say HP should rush a product out in order to stay relevant. But at this point they've fallen so far out of the game that skipping a generation or even scrapping smartphones and pushing resources to tablets and markets with actual customers isnt a bad idea.
    I know you feel serious about that. But i think tablets (and i really hate calling them that) are a bit of a fad right now. Meaning it'll simmer down.

    The smartphone market is still young..like a teenager. There's plenty of room for HP to make a dent if they are serious. If they look at it like a hobby, meaning throwing some hardware together with webOS and not doing much else, then they're wasting time. I know i yawn when i see another android device from x maker. Apple's OS makes me yawn as i impatiently wait for a jailbreak (but nice hardware and this is where the apps are at).

    Seriously..

    1. A thin, sleek looking slab. Has to feel high end. It's all the rage to buy something that looks pretty even if most then throw a cheap plastic case on it after using suran wrap on the screen.

    2. WebOS needs some loving. Multitasking & synergy do rock...but the rest blows. HP needs to take charge of those core apps (the usual, email, sms, media player, etc) and flesh em out. No more relying on users to find better 3rd party alternatives. This may work for some but it's a recipe for disaster targeting average consumers who can't find their way out of a paper bag and are too lazy to even try if even shown the way.

    3. 720p screen support and at least 3.5"-4" screen. The screen has to rock.

    4. No more palm profile for contacts. This all needs to be made easier for consumers. A smartphone should pull in info meaning you shouldn't ever lose info. But if they keep it, then go all in with it and offer some type of service like mobileme.

    5. Big name 3rd party apps. Even if HP has to pay through the nose to get them. Any app store needs these. Partner with someone to get media and provide easy ways to sync it to desktop. Ecosystem type stuff. Car mounts, integrate touchstones, etc.

    6. This kinda ties in with number two. But don't add half baked features just because you can. A 12mp camera on a phone will suck. A front facing camera is useless if people can't figure it out. Palm has to understand its market better and pretend they're designing for 6 year olds. It needs to be simple to use.

    7. Aggressive marketing. And as few brands as possible. Don't have a Samsung moment and decide to release 4 different phones with as many different names. Who knows what HTC will release next but its sure to have a different name as well. Apple makes a living just marketing the iphone. But please, no more names like the Pre or Pixi.

    Do this and worry about tablets later. BTW...a lot of this is just rehashed since the Pre made its debut.
    Last edited by cardfan; 07/07/2010 at 04:19 AM.
  15. #55  
    I highly suggest reading this blog post by a respectable developer:
    Marco.org - Great since day one
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I highly suggest reading this blog post by a respectable developer:
    Marco.org - Great since day one
    I'm not an iPhone fan, but that's a great and well-reasoned article. I do favor the Apple/Palm/Blackberry model where one motivated party controls everything and matches the hardware to the software and vice versa. That's part of the reason I bought a Pre in the first place.

    Unfortunately, only Apple has been able to execute this model successfully enough for my taste. Blackberry matches the two well, but has an outdated, crappy OS. Palm has an unfinished OS and crappy hardware. It's be great if HP was serious about correcting both of those deficiencies, but they have yet to show concrete proof of action that they are. "Reassuring statements" from various employees does nothing for me.

    That being said, I think some Android handsets right now are humming to the point where their inefficient model isn't as much of a negative as it once was. While the variety of hardware, skins, and OS versions is going to be a problem for some consumers, it's not stopping their meteoric rise and it's not an impediment to me. I see the Samsung Epic, and I see a lightning fast, awesome screen beast that has current software, is easily hacked to put custom ROMs on to future proof it, and is miles ahead of where WebOS is right now with regards to hardware and software. Only WebOS' unified messaging and general OS prettiness sets it apart from an Android handset of that quality anymore.

    I'm not in a rush to upgrade as my Pre has stabilized somewhat. I will take my time, check out all of Sprint's lineup for 2010, then make a decision on where to go (or stay) next. I'm still not interested in iPhone 4 even if it was on Sprint. Don't like the ecosystem, restrictions, or notifications. Don't want a 3.5-inch screen either at any pixel density.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Re: GoogleMaps:

    On my Palm Pre+, WiFi on, Uberkernal and Govna at "screeenstate", Googlemaps flies open. About 2-3 seconds, tops, with my current location clearly and completely displayed.

    Its the connection first, and then the processor speed second - remember, Im on T-Mobile running the ATT version, so I don't get 3g - whenever possible, I have to use WiFi, or fall back onto EVDO, which, BTW, isnt so bad!

    Google maps will open faster on my Pre when i'm at wifi. Even then, its not consistant.

    But when do i ever need to use google maps when i'm on wifi that i'm not near a more powerful, easier to use computer?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    That's the difference between a company that is innovative and knows how to make products that consumers WANT to buy and all the has beens that set on the sideline and make excuses.
    Just to kinda step in.

    Lets also remember Apple has such a stronge hype/following that it doesn't really have to be a "revolutionary" product.

    I still find little reason to own an iPad...but at least its well made.

    You could have just as well made of a product from another company and here are the facts...it simply won't have mass market hype from normal media outlets nor will it have herds of people lining up to get one.

    Apple has developed into that kind of company (well they always had a huge cult following back in the 90s) but now you have mothers and non tech people waiting in line for an iPhone 4.

    That didn't just happen from quality products...cause a lot of companies make quality products. That happens from carefully crafted marketing and secrecy along with quality products.

    And i'll say what i always say about the iPhone....no other phone will have day one sales like the iPhone. At least not anytime soon. No other company has that kind of mindshare right now.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    Google maps will open faster on my Pre when i'm at wifi. Even then, its not consistant.

    But when do i ever need to use google maps when i'm on wifi that i'm not near a more powerful, easier to use computer?
    Brian;

    WiFi in airports, coffesshops, restuarants - very useful, at least for me.

    And, GoogleMaps is extermely consistent for me on my Pre Plus - impressive, actually!

    See, its not about the Pre, though, its about the 3g and 2G service and speeds on the network.

    Apples and oranges.. (no pun intended!)

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  20. #60  
    Perhaps. I live in NYC and have a sprint Pre so my 3G speeds are plenty fast. But when i'm out and about in the city trying to pull up transit directions its frustrating.

    I'm at my job (again in NYC) and i'm going to press Google Maps now (and i guess you have to take my word) ...

    14 seconds to show map and my location (when it finally maximized the whole screen it was already at my location).

    Closing again and seeing the time:
    10 seconds this time.

    Thats with full service and no other apps running (and i have my overclock patch on).

    Those are the best times i usually get on 3G. Maybe the Pre Plus just does it faster I suppose.
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