Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 125
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    3. Because you brought up the point that WebOS had 3,000 apps in it's first year vs the iPhone's first year. Who would release a smart phone in 2009 or 2010 and not have apps for it very soon? This is not 2007 when apps on smart phones were not all the rage like they are now. I used the iPad as an example to show that it would be silly to release a device like that or a smart phone and not have apps being available in very short order.
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    3. I was trying to understand what you meant by"polished" - and I could not fathom what you were talking about, so I took the two most relevant issues - bugs and apps.. to show you how this is a flawed logic. The iPhone's success was incredible, and related to great showmanship and marketting, and a new take on an existing technology (the smartphone already in play.. the Treo). Apple took thier ipod and made it into a cell phone, in thier own style, and changed the way people looked at the smartphone - but, that was hardly a complete first product... and it took a year for them to get thier apps going.. Palm did it with WebOS, from scratch, within 3 months to get thier first apps available, and that is a great feat, IMO, a success, NOT a failure, especially in competition with Apples domination of the market.


    If i may add...

    3. You can Not compare the apps of the iPad to that of webOS... for the Simple Fact that the iPad is a Oversized 3GS with Some additional traits, so when a dev , "develops" an app for the ipad, or should i say UPDATES their 3GS app for the iPad , im sorry to say thats not really developing... thats as if saying that because Devs added support for the Pixi that counts as a New App, Please, dont kid yourself. and even IF the iPAD has over 3000 individual apps (not available on the iPhone) still your talking about a 3 year old Established Ecosystem here. It would not surprise me one bit , when Chrome/Android OS launches that they will have a similiar outcome... people developing and familiar with the android Ecosystem now will continue developing for it...

    Now go Back to your Herd

    (jk just dont get all misty eyed on me)
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    1. If you understand it because you experience it at work, then why do it to others? Just stop, and respect other's opinions. Disagree, if you want. Its all good.. just no personal insults.. we all get more out of rational thoughts and intelligent discussions than insulting someone because they don't see it your way. Make your case, and let the readers make up their mind. Who knows, maybe you can actually provide logic to the discussion that others find value in?

    2. WebOS was never indicated as "flawed".. the Pre and Pixi were.. hardware build and design quality issues. This isn't about that, though. And, BTW, the Pre's "ease of use" has never been compromised any more than any other phone with hardware issues.. has nothing to do with the OS.

    3. I was trying to understand what you meant by"polished" - and I could not fathom what you were talking about, so I took the two most relevant issues - bugs and apps.. to show you how this is a flawed logic. The iPhone's success was incredible, and related to great showmanship and marketting, and a new take on an existing technology (the smartphone already in play.. the Treo). Apple took thier ipod and made it into a cell phone, in thier own style, and changed the way people looked at the smartphone - but, that was hardly a complete first product... and it took a year for them to get thier apps going.. Palm did it with WebOS, from scratch, within 3 months to get thier first apps available, and that is a great feat, IMO, a success, NOT a failure, especially in competition with Apples domination of the market.

    4. I call it what I called it: irrelevant. As for what others say here.. I can't answer for them, nor do I want to.. I myself am a huge advocate/patron of WebOS because of its innovative and purely intuitive design - hats an evaluation I made based on comparisons to existing products in the market.. I dont put other systems down, but, rather, I choose what I believe works best for me - I personally do NOT like iOS (webOS has spoiled me rotten).. but you won't see me calling thier users "sheep".. I just think that many of them would switch if they experience WebOS on a solid piece of hardware, versus the current WebOS users, who have tried all other OS's and STILL choose the inferior build/design quality hardware of the Pre/Pixi over any versioon of the IPhone because the OS is just THAT superior for them to use.. which is quite the statement, if you ask me. If you want proof of this, just ask any Pre/Pixi owner on this site...

    IMO, of course.

    1. That's the way it is in the IT world. You obviously don't work in the IT world and I was never bothered by it. But, apparently people here are.

    2. That's funny because I have read more than enough posts on here where people complain about the issues they experience with WebOS. I call them flaws, maybe you call them bugs. Every OS has bugs, but from what I read on here, WebOS seems to have more than just common bugs, etc.

    and it took a year for them to get thier apps going.. Palm did it with WebOS, from scratch, within 3 months to get thier first apps available, and that is a great feat, IMO, a success, NOT a failure, especially in competition with Apples domination of the market.
    I wouldn't consider it some great feat because Palm had apps within 3 months. It is assumed now that if you're going to release a new smartphone, apps better be a part of that release if you want people to buy your product. Apple could take it's time doing apps back then because what other major smartphone had an app store that is anywhere as successful as Apple's app store has turned out to be?

    In hindsight, if Palm took more time in doing things maybe they would have been a lot more successful in the Pre launch and not be in the situation they are in now.

    As for what others say here.. I can't answer for them, nor do I want to.
    But, you have no problem doing it for me...

    I just think that many of them would switch if they experience WebOS on a solid piece of hardware, versus the current WebOS users, who have tried all other OS's and STILL choose the inferior build/design quality hardware of the Pre/Pixi over any versioon of the IPhone because the OS is just THAT superior for them to use.. which is quite the statement, if you ask me
    It's not quite the statement when the iPhone is only available on one network which in a lot of areas is the worst for reception. If the iPhone were on all the cell carriers networks, i think more than a few people on this forum would switch to the iPhone.

    I have read it a lot on this forum where a lot of people choose Sprint because their plans are cheaper than AT&T and Verizon and that is more important than going to another network for a phone. And I know a ton of people that will never switch from Verizon. So, if the iPhone were available on those 2 networks more people and even Palm Pre users would be iPhone users.
  3. #23  
    >>2. WebOS was never indicated as "flawed".. the Pre and Pixi were.. hardware build and design quality issues.>>

    You know, I don't know that it's ever been shown that webOSs "flaws" are solely hardware/build issues. I am not completely convinced that there aren't some basic problems in the design of the software that render it not optimal on a small unit, like a phone. I never used the Pre or Pixi plus, but by all accounts, the hardware is much sturdier - yet there are still issues with speed and memory management.

    <<3.... Apple took thier ipod and made it into a cell phone, in thier own style, and changed the way people looked at the smartphone - but, that was hardly a complete first product... and it took a year for them to get thier apps going.. Palm did it with WebOS, from scratch, within 3 months to get thier first apps available, and that is a great feat, IMO, a success, NOT a failure, especially in competition with Apples domination of the market.>>

    This is where I like to remind people that Palm had a good ten-year start on Apple, in making phones.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    1. That's the way it is in the IT world. You obviously don't work in the IT world and I was never bothered by it. But, apparently people here are..
    Huh? Sorry.. this isn't the IT world, and again, NO RELEVANCE!

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    2. That's funny because I have read more than enough posts on here where people complain about the issues they experience with WebOS. I call them flaws, maybe you call them bugs. Every OS has bugs, but from what I read on here, WebOS seems to have more than just common bugs, etc..
    I have NO idea what you are talking about.. just because a user doesnt like the way something is done, doesnt make it a flaw.. however, if I throw a card away, and it disappears, and then moments away, it comes back on the screen, well that would be a flaw. No such issues here. Bugs.. sure.. rough spots in the way things work.. sure, its a year old.. it needs to mature the way all OS's do.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I wouldn't consider it some great feat because Palm had apps within 3 months. It is assumed now that if you're going to release a new smartphone, apps better be a part of that release if you want people to buy your product. Apple could take it's time doing apps back then because what other major smartphone had an app store that is anywhere as successful as Apple's app store has turned out to be?
    Why isnt it a success for a small company to invent an OS from scratch and then have applications for it within 3 months of the debut of thier first deviced, when the leaders of the sector took a year to do the same thing? Illogical, rationality and evaluation, if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    In hindsight, if Palm took more time in doing things maybe they would have been a lot more successful in the Pre launch and not be in the situation they are in now.
    In hindsight, if PALM took their time, theyd have never been able to finance the launch, and would have even furhter behind in the competition, and we all would have been deprived of the WebOS invention..

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    But, you have no problem doing it for me....
    Nope.. I didn't.. all in my opinion, and any conclusions I made can be backed up by asking people here, in this forum. I have experienced this first hand, and this web site is further evidence of my stated observation and opined conclusions

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    It's not quite the statement when the iPhone is only available on one network which in a lot of areas is the worst for reception. If the iPhone were on all the cell carriers networks, i think more than a few people on this forum would switch to the iPhone.....
    Some actually have, but thier reasons are NOT OS.. they are hardware issues.. but, dont believe me.. go read and learn for yourself - most apologize and say they will miss the WebOS experience.. and they will be back when new hardware comes. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I have read it a lot on this forum where a lot of people choose Sprint because their plans are cheaper than AT&T and Verizon and that is more important than going to another network for a phone. And I know a ton of people that will never switch from Verizon. So, if the iPhone were available on those 2 networks more people and even Palm Pre users would be iPhone users.
    And visa versa. I know many T-Mobile users who would switch to a Pre/pixi if it were offered there, so they can take advantage of the low pricing AND the 3g... Just wait for the next WebOS device and lets see if its a high quality hardware spec and design/build.. I think it will be a game changer, personally.. not something that will be an immediate threat to Apple, but, certainly make the whole mobile device sector take on a much different profile!

    IMO, of course!

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #25  
    As I have stated before I own a 3GS and a Pre. 3GS is work phone, and Pre my personal device. When I got the Pre, I got what I expected: a new OS on Inferior HW. I have to agree that when you have been in the game as long as Palm has, and when you are losing market share, you must insure that when you launch a new product, it must:

    Have a WOW factor from a Software and HW standpoint

    It must be as solid(durability) as previous HW(Treo)

    It must exceed what is currently on the market in the way of both HW and SW.

    You must be able to market it so that people will take notice and say "I must have it"

    We have exhausted the discussion on their inability to achieve that I must have this product. When you make a "gotta have it product" and insure that the carrier understands the importance of marketing it properly, and personnel are properly trained on it......People WILL leave other networks to have!

    Apple and Iphone has proved this.
  6. #26  
    LC Guy,

    Just to comment on one thing quickly, because I don't have time...

    Why isnt it a success for a small company to invent an OS from scratch and then have applications for it within 3 months of the debut of thier first deviced, when the leaders of the sector took a year to do the same thing? Illogical, rationality and evaluation, if you ask me.
    For the simple fact that you don't know how long Palm was working on the Pre, WebOS, or apps for WebOS before they decided to announce to the public. So, until that info becomes known and NOT assumed, you're just guessing.

    We do know that back in 2007 when Apple released the iPhone, there was no competitive reason for them to have an app store ready to go because there were no hugely successful smart phone app stores back then to compete with.

    But, in 2009 the Apple app store was extremely successful and if Palm wanted the Pre to be somewhat competitive with the iPhone they HAD to release an app store in short order after the Pre being released.
  7. #27  
    SoFly;

    "We do know that back in 2007 when Apple released the iPhone, there was no competitive reason for them to have an app store ready to go because there were no hugely successful smart phone app stores back then to compete with."

    Um.. Palm had 30,000 PALM OS apps. There was competition. The reason Apple didn't release it was, i I remember correctly, they didnt have any sort of way to allow others to write programs for their system, nor a system to sell it, and, they did have the financial resources to do so.. the iPod was a game changer for them.. they had tons of moneym, versus Palm who didn't.

    "But, in 2009 the Apple app store was extremely successful and if Palm wanted the Pre to be somewhat competitive with the iPhone they HAD to release an app store in short order after the Pre being released."

    I dont believe that PALM was competing with only the iPhone, but rather all smartphones, for at least a moderate share of the growing smartphone market.. in that regard, they were the little company with all of the odds stacked against them, and they did so many things right.. except for the HW... but, regardless of how long they were working on WebOS, it doesnt matter - they released the phone and within 3 months, they had applications for public consumption and within 6 months of release, the app store opened.. 6 months after that, there are between 2500 and 3000 apps in the WebOS store, and countless other Homebrew applications as well - no matter how you spin this, they DID accomplish quite a bit more than Apple did given the same place in thier product development timeline, in the face of much challenge and adversity, which Apple didn't have to worry about.

    As I said, though, this is more about WebOS as an OS.. so lets see the next WebOS devices and how they fare.. should be quite interesting, no?

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #28  
    I agree with LC in regards to the fact that Palm was competing with all of the other Smartphones in the market. If you are going to be successful in this arena, you must offer an alternative to:

    1. The guy on top of the pile-Apple

    2. Create your own niche and dominate it so that no one dares enter this area

    3. Be able to cross over and be successful in multiple arenas


    I look forward to the next gen Web OS device and phone, just to see if Palm and HP learned anything about what people want and expect in a device(it changes every 6 months). I love the Web OS concept, and have been patient with the development process. I expect the next gen to take the best that the Iphone and Droid phones have to offer and match or exceed their Hardware and prove that the OS is evolving and is here to stay.

    Next product must be a home run, or they will only have a cult following based on potential that was unrealized because the vision was lacking....

    Time will tell.
  9. bsoder's Avatar
    Posts
    102 Posts
    Global Posts
    103 Global Posts
    #29  
    I have owned many of Palm's devices, from the Pilot 5000 to the Pre. I switched four lines from Verizon to Sprint, a major downgrade in service quality, in order to get the Pre last summer. The Pre was severely lacking both in hardware and software - buggy as **** and bottom tier build quality; I replaced mine six times over the last year.

    I don't care about the "WebOS has only been around for a year, it's not fair to compare it to 3rd or 4th gen iOS or Android" arguments - that's the reality of the market now, compete or die. The iPhone doesn't have true multitasking? Neither does webOS, when the "Can't open more cards" error pops up with one or zero cards open.

    I hope HP can sort Palm out, but I seriously doubt I will ever buy another Palm device.
  10. #30  
    Can I add something here.

    I think even with money it will take something brilliant for Palm/HP to get consumer mindshare again. Look how long it took with Android and that was with a vast array of devices.

    But also, what else does Palm have to leverage interest?

    Apple has its iTunes and App Store.
    Android has all the google services.
    Microsoft has name recognition and xbox live.

    Palm has.....?

    People still don't know what the Palm Pre is when they see my phone. How are they going to let people know and/or care?
  11. #31  
    Honestly if there were 2 webos phones to come out one with the same style as the moto droid and one with the style of the HTC evo 4g (both with similar hardware and 4g Of course) and the marketing that droid did in 2009 there wouldnt be too much to worry for palm/hp. The problem with webos is that they tried to target apples fan boys too much and left the rest of us out in the cold. Android is a great platform, but has years of market experience on webos. Remember folks that barely anyone knew what the heck droid or android was prior to 2009, and that is 100% due to marketing. Palm was always known for business class phones, well now smartphones need to appeal to both business AND pleasure. Palm went cheap on hardware and put too much time into going after the wrong crowd.

    I for one hope and pray for a moto droid type webos phone on sprint. Just a few key features to make the phone work better for business and pleasure would be: Larger higher resolution screen (less pinching), landscape keyboard (better typing experience), dpad (come on now navigating large emails for errors is a pita without one of these), expandable memory on top of some internal (I easily maxed the 8GB in my pre and this allows for the phone to last longer with larger SD cards), front facing cam for skype, and lastly the ability to use external keyboards (this was standard on all palm phones until the pre and made the pocket device VERY VERY powerful). If they make another set of cheap plastic phones without most of these features Ill be switching to droid reluctantly.
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  12. #32  
    I still think they have a long way to go past marketing.

    Do you think a common consumer wants to deal with the garbage that is Google Maps on WebOS? Every other platform you have a great experience...with WebOS we have to wait 30 seconds plus sometimes to even see a map. (the experience after is passable).

    HP/Palm needs to get REAL app support from the big names in it. If Google is not going to show love, partner a bit with MS to get Bing maps native on the Pre (yeah Microsoft has their Windows phone 7 series coming but i 'm sure they want Bing on as many things as possible).

    PDK i think will hopefully be agreat boon, just make sure the phones can run them alright. We've all run into the issue of running out of memory when playing PDK games...make sure the next devices don't have this issue. (solution? Keep the RAM available the same on the PDK but increase the RAM amount on the next device).

    Web apps do work great for light apps like Twitter or news apps...but refine the PDK to make sure WebOS get stronger apps.

    I think Apple has also proven, most people WANT an easy way to sync their music to their device. Plug and Play is great for people like us on this forum...but just like T-Mobile did, maybe think about partnering up with Doubletwist to have that be the solution for syncing. What would be better if Amazon makes one day a desktop client that syncs with all different devices. While the amazon integration is ok on doubletwist, it can be a LOT better.

    As it stands right now, its hard to say what market WebOS aims for. And that makes it hard for people to put up an argument for it. Hell i used to recommend the Pre to everyone...my gf has it (hates it) and my best friend had it (just got an Evo instead) and i thought perhaps i let me personal feelings for WebOS influence my recommendation on what most would perceive. People just want their phones to work and work well...and i'm sorry, without patches, WebOS/Pre simply don't at this point esp. compared to other phones on the market. Its not a great experience. hell, i had a buddy on a feature phone pull up his text messaging and send a message faster than i have ever been able to do on my Pre.

    But for instance, my buddy just texted me what device he should get (screenshot attached just so its not one of those "yeah sure he did")



    And i wanted to recommend a Palm Pre Plus...but he's not a techie, he won't homebrew and so i simply couldn't. Just said get the incredible. To me, to a non techie person, a current 2.1 android devices running Sense is just a better option to recommend vs. the Pre (and again, i love WebOS but even i'm getting ready to move...for now at least).
  13. #33  
    I still have itunes 9.0.1 (and there is absolutely nothign I could profit from upgrading to a newer version) and I can sync all my music just by plugging in my pre and hitting media sync.
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    I still have itunes 9.0.1 and I can sync all my music just by plugging in my pre and hitting media sync.
    Thats not a realistic thing again to tell a basic consumer.

    "oh well don't upgrade your itunes no matter how many times Apple prompts you too and you'll be good"

    To succeed you need to think of the lowest common denominator for your market haha. And sadly, non tech people are smartphone owners now...so you have to make the ownership of the phone work for them.

    This is where Apple dominates. As much as i've given crap about the iPhone in the past, I have no problem recommending it to someone on AT&T...its easily the best smartphone options on the service currently. Is it perfect? No...but just talking about usability...the iPhone 4 runs circles around the Palm Pre Plus. Sure, you could break it down for determining what the individual needs in the phone....but the last iPhone upgrade makes it a reallllllly solid overall package.

    Again, this is ignoring what us smarter consumer do with weighing pros and cons....most general consumers just want:

    1. A phone that works well (even this one is up in the air these days seeing how many people deal with ****ty AT&t network haha)
    2. Apps
  15. #35  
    I wasnt saying it was a valid arguement saying: "hey the pre syncs with itunes, but before you do what version of itunes do you have?" is not very enticing. Honestly there are alot of things palm and hp need to do, but remember droid has been around over 3 times as long as webos and has had significantly more time to perfect their OS. To compare 'droid to webos you have to go back to 2007/2008 and see how android was then to see how it stacked up again webos. We must not forget that we are early adopters of this OS and that software doesnt release onto the market shiny and perfect.
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  16. #36  
    Andoird was crap when it first came out no doubt.

    But most people care about TODAY than yesterday.

    Hopefully WebOS catches up in the areas it needs to by next year.
  17. #37  
    Well like I said more and more droids are coming to sprint and depending on how HP/Palm handle things and improve by my 1 year will decide if I stay with palm or go with droid (until palm gets their act together on hardware/features or for good). I love the droid platform, I just prefer some things on the palm platform on top of not having too much of a choice on sprint and neither the time or money to hack a moto droid for sprint.
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  18. bsoder's Avatar
    Posts
    102 Posts
    Global Posts
    103 Global Posts
    #38  
    BrainM is correct - the argument that "droid has been around over 3 times as long" isn't relevant to Joe Consumer who walks in off the street. As BrainM said, Joe wants a phone that 1. works and 2. has lots of apps.

    The Iphone 4 is my first Apple phone. It is far and away better than the Pre. I do wish it had the Pre's notifications - the notifications suck BAD. On the other hand, when I open something it opens quickly - I can take photos quickly. Maps come up immediately. On my Pre, I'd take a picture, then have to wait thirty seconds while it did... something?

    I wonder if Palm would have had more success if they'd expanded PalmOS instead.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bsoder View Post
    BrainM is correct - the argument that "droid has been around over 3 times as long" isn't relevant to Joe Consumer who walks in off the street. As BrainM said, Joe wants a phone that 1. works and 2. has lots of apps.

    The Iphone 4 is my first Apple phone. It is far and away better than the Pre. I do wish it had the Pre's notifications - the notifications suck BAD. On the other hand, when I open something it opens quickly - I can take photos quickly. Maps come up immediately. On my Pre, I'd take a picture, then have to wait thirty seconds while it did... something?

    I wonder if Palm would have had more success if they'd expanded PalmOS instead.
    No. Palm OS wouldn't be able to keep up with many aspects of modern smart phnoes. From the Browser to multi-touch to multi-tasking.

    PalmOS however was VERY responsive, but thats also because of how light programs and the OS were. But at the same time, my 755p LOVED resetting itself every 2 days haha.

    And yeah, notifications are the number one negative for the iPhone (IMO) now. My negative list used to be a lot longer.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    Well like I said more and more droids are coming to sprint and depending on how HP/Palm handle things and improve by my 1 year will decide if I stay with palm or go with droid (until palm gets their act together on hardware/features or for good). I love the droid platform, I just prefer some things on the palm platform on top of not having too much of a choice on sprint and neither the time or money to hack a moto droid for sprint.
    Honestly...they should take their time and make sure whatever they put out is a home run.

    You have Windows Mobile 7 coming out which looks like it has potential. WebOS doesn't have much room to continue with its growing pains. The market is VERY crowded and even Blackberry will have its new OS out by the end of the year.
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions