View Poll Results: How should APPLE resolve Iphone 4 antenna reception issues?

Voters
68. You may not vote on this poll
  • Offer 100% refund

    28 41.18%
  • Offer Phone Cases Free for 30 days to iphone 4 consumers

    34 50.00%
  • Discredit claims \ ignore

    8 11.76%
  • Provide software Solution

    11 16.18%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 21 to 40 of 68
  1. #21  
    yep, antennae would take a recertification and mfg change.

    changing hardware and/or giving away a bumper would be admitting to a faw and effectively pleading guilty to the current (and future) class action lawsuits.

    it would be cheaper to swap them out, but that would tie up their manufacturing capacity for several months.

    bottom line is they will quietly change their manufacturing process and update their software... It's called an 'in line upgrade" and companies do it all the time. Palm did it to resolve oreo and other issues in subsequent production runs, etc.

    anything else will pound their stock price. Even worse, steve jobs would have to admit to a mistake, and his ego can't handle that. IMHO.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    aside from the explanation detailed in this post, can anyone tell me why Apple is not making those 30 cent rubbers available for free to any customer unhappy with their reception ???
    yes. Product liability and class action law suits if they admit it is a hardware flaw (software can be upgraded, hardware can't)
  3.    #23  
    the phone works... There is an issue if you hold it a certain way. They can continue to claim it's a non issue. They can offer cases for free as a customer service to their customers and a show of concern for the bad prprpr. $I$ $don$'$t$ $think$ $that$ $would$ $result$ $in$ $class$ $action$ $lawsuits$ $if$ $handled$ $correctly$.
    in no way do they have to admit any flaw... Just offer the case as a gift to those who helped make the iphone4 launch a success. They can spin it and make it a positive. I'm ok with corporations doing this. When people do it... I have a problem with it.
  4. #24  
    class action lawsuit has already been filed... Several actually:

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/03/class-action-lawsuits-charge-apple-with-willful-deception-regarding-reported-iphone-4-antenna-issue/
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/03/2010 at 10:54 PM.
  5.    #25  
    Yes. There are lawsuits. Offering cases free does not mean Apple admits guilt and worsens their position if done right. Apple has the $$ to defend themselves in court... that is not their concern. What should they do to take care of their customers and PRPRPR? $What$ $should$ $they$ $do$ $to$ $make$ $this$ $right$? $50$% $off$ $apps$ ;-)
  6. #26  
    This seems like a minor issue that has blown up only because of Apple's own arrogance. Free bumpers for all who want one while insisting that all phones suffer from the same attenuation and issue a software update. Pretty small stuff really.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    http://gizmodo.com/5577812/why-apples-iphone-4-update-wont-fix-your-reception-problem?skyline=true&s=i

    Might as well not bother trying to convince Urkel on anything anti Apple\iPhone. (why is he on P|C again) The Ip4 is perfect, there are no problems and ALL the posts are being made by rabid Apple haters.

    Apple - Support - Discussions - Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls ...

    Proximity sensor issues when on a call with iphone 4 - Mac Forums

    iPhone 4 Drops Calls when Left Corner is Touched - Mac Forums

    (note the reg dates on the posters. Oh wait, haters have registered on all Apple sites as part of their master plan to slam Apple products in the future!)




    (We REALLY need "ignore\downgrade" voting buttons on P|C, then maybe all the TiPB people will give up and go back to their own site.)
  8. urkel's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Might as well not bother trying to convince Urkel on anything anti Apple\iPhone. (why is he on P|C again).
    Owning Palm products since 97 qualifies me to be on P|C. Owning an iPhone and considering an iPhone 4 (among other Android/WinMo devices) makes me qualified to participate in an iPhone thread. Now, that takes care of my unecessarily explained "Credentials", so how about you? You openly declare your dislike of the iPhone and you claim to be a FUD Buster yet you are spreading FUD about a device in which you have limited to zero experience with. And you're questioning the validity of opinions?

    And as for the actual discussion, have you even read what I wrote because I don't understand what you are considering untrue. I made it clear that, Yes there is a problem and Yes affected users need a recourse. But when the strongest opinions about "What Apple MUST do to resolve this problem" comes from people who don't even own it then you have to question peoples motives.

    When it comes to product launches by ANY company then action can't be taken for the entire product line when such a small percentage of devices are affected. Consider the Pre. Despite all the hardware issues that plagued message board whiners, the problem wasnt widespread enough for Palm to declare a product recall or make press releases admitting fault that didn't affect every user which is fine. So why is it that you feel Apple should outright admit fault for 2million devices before an accurate analysis of the problem is even discovered?

    The longer we wait the more accurate the problem count will be. And since you aren't affected by the actual situation in any way then waiting for definitive results shouldn't affect you.
    Last edited by Urkel; 07/04/2010 at 01:20 PM.
  9. #29  
    "OH NOES I AM BEING RAPED AND THEN MURDERED WHAT SHALL I DO! OH I KNOW ILL CALL 911 ON MY IPHONE, OH I CANT I HAVE NO RECEPTION WHEN I HOLD IT!"

    Yea I think bad reception because of what phone you use can be just as bad as bad brakes, at least cars have air bags made to protect you. I guess you can try to beat the attacker over the head with the phone.

    And when it comes down to it having the bars show as high end should not prevent dropped calls, what the GUI shows should not matter when it comes down to keeping a call going.
  10. tirk's Avatar
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    #30  
    Well, all I know (as opposed to what I've read) is that the iP4 I bought for my partner works fine - no dropped calls, or significant change in displayed signal strength however the hell either of us hold it - it seems as sensitive, if not more so, than any other phone we have too. Apple have offered a 30 day cash-back deal for anyone dissatisfied too. Seems pretty reasonable to me (though people do enjoy bashing Apple, Microsoft, Google....)
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  11. #31  
    I can sometimes replicate the antenna issue. Most of the time I never notice it unless I look for it. I also don't drop any more calls with the 4 than I did with the 3GS. I'm sure some other people do, but I do not. Most people commenting in this thread don't have an iPhone so they have little hands on experience. I actually am having a bigger problem with the proximity sensor than with the antenna.

    There have been plenty of complaints from owners of other devices that lose signal when the phone is held a certain way. This includes the evo, nexus, droid, and plenty of blackberry's. It does surprise me though, that apple didn't catch this problem in the testing phase. The positives of the iPhone 4 are just too strong for me to switch to another device at this time.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Owning Palm products since 97 qualifies me to be on P|C. Owning an iPhone and considering an iPhone 4 (among other Android/WinMo devices) makes me qualified to participate in an iPhone thread. Now, that takes care of my unecessarily explained "Credentials", so how about you?
    Touche. While that may be true (unverified) your post trail states otherwise with a decidedly heavy slant PRO Apple and CON Palm\Pre while on a PALM PRE site. I'm a long time Palm user (longer than my sig states) and I haven' been over to TiPB to rip on iPad or iP4 etc. Why would I? It's constantly amazes me how people will spend valuable (or not) time on an opposing site bashing it?? I can understand Engadget\Gizmodo as those are "neutral" sites but it's out of hand on P|C.

    You openly declare your dislike of the iPhone and you claim to be a FUD Buster yet you are spreading FUD about a device in which you have limited to zero experience with. And you're questioning the validity of opinions?
    <= 15 yrs IT as a Systems Analyst and telecomm admin is one of my hats. We run "open exchange" and allow non-corp phones to sync with EAS and I'm the "configurator" so I have a vested interest in this. (Waaa...my email is not syncing all the time! Waaa) Our test iP4 is still being held up but the server admin has one and we've been testing mail performance with it. Guess what?, it drops calls slightly more than the 3GS's w/o the bumper.

    (Err...watch those *assumptions*, can get ya in trouble.)

    And as for the actual discussion, have you even read what I wrote because I don't understand what you are considering untrue. I made it clear that, Yes there is a problem and Yes affected users need a recourse. But when the strongest opinions about "What Apple MUST do to resolve this problem" comes from people who don't even own it then you have to question peoples motives.
    You clearly said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel
    How do you give an honest response on a product flaw that affects such a small percentage of users?

    There's no doubt that for some people there IS an issue but how many people are REALLY affected and how many are just bitter lonely people obsessing over the minutia of a product they didnt intend to buy in the first place? With their numbers hitting around 2million then wheres the 4am lines to return a severely defective product?
    P|C, Engadget, Giz, sites aside, I'm willing to bet the users on MacForums, TUAW, and Apples own forums would disagree with that statement. True, we don't know how many, but Apples waiving of the restocking fee is unprecedented and would not be done arbitrarily if they weren't concerned.

    Plus it's good business, let a guy return the phone and he stops b!tching about it...the rest of the flock, flaws or not will line right up.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post


    P|C, Engadget, Giz, sites aside, I'm willing to bet the users on MacForums, TUAW, and Apples own forums would disagree with that statement. True, we don't know how many, but Apples waiving of the restocking fee is unprecedented and would not be done arbitrarily if they weren't concerned.

    Plus it's good business, let a guy return the phone and he stops b!tching about it...the rest of the flock, flaws or not will line right up.
    From what I've been reading, this issue might affect pretty much all the iPhones because of the way the antenna system was designed. What might make one work better than the other is the strength of the signal at a particular location and the conductivity of the user. Apple screwed up and only a redesign will truly cure the problem. A bumper is just a band aid IMO.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  14.    #34  
    @ cobrakon
    Your experience is impressive. I would have to say your opinions\ statements are logical imo.

    "Urkel
    Owning Palm products since 97 qualifies me to be on P|C. Owning an iPhone and considering an iPhone 4 (among other Android/WinMo devices) makes me qualified to participate in an iPhone thread. Now, that takes care of my unecessarily explained "Credentials", so how about you?"

    cobrakon
    Touche. While that may be true (unverified) your post trail states otherwise with a decidedly heavy slant PRO Apple and CON Palm\Pre while on a PALM PRE site. I'm a long time Palm user (longer than my sig states) and I haven' been over to TiPB to rip on iPad or iP4 etc. Why would I? It's constantly amazes me how people will spend valuable (or not) time on an opposing site bashing it?? I can understand Engadget\Gizmodo as those are "neutral" sites but it's out of hand on P|C. "

    I have been a member of this site almost a year now. I never felt motivated to contribute at first... mostly because of my inexperience with Palm( WEBOS at launch). I became fed up with the constant bashing on this site from android and apple fanatics . Palm is dead... fail already..etc. I was tuning in for webos news and tips for my pre. When things got the ugliest... i started voicing my support. The one thing that baffles me the most is someone spending hours( how valuable ?) of time on P|C forums bashing palm and supporting other hand helds. You are spot on about the neutral sites being different. I have spent very little time in android central or tipb. I welcome the debate over which platform is better/more innovative etc... but i respect the opinions of the users of this forum. I identify with their wants in a smartphone.... so I want to read their opinions on other OS compared to webOS. What motivates the bashers/haters on this site to spend hours here , persistently pushing their agenda... puzzles me. Ultimately, I welcome it because it has strengthened my opinion of webos and they end up discrediting themselves. I am not speaking of all of the contributers on this site supporting other platforms, but the fanatical ones that spend hours posting negative comments and put downs, while being amazed at the opposition and going so far as to call this forums users arrogant by defending webOS.
    Iphone 4 release, ironically, has been the most successful in sales while being plaqued by hardware issues. Goes to show you that if you market a brand well... big % of world population will buy it based on popularity. Ultimatley, Iphone4, Evo, Droidx, pre are all good phones. Its the innovative features of webOS that give me promise of better things to come.
    back to main topic.... here is a good overall review of iphone 4. Free case give away as a minimum is mentioned .
    Apple's iPhone 4: Thoroughly Reviewed - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
    Last edited by clutch1222; 07/05/2010 at 12:06 PM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    From what I've been reading, this issue might affect pretty much all the iPhones because of the way the antenna system was designed. What might make one work better than the other is the strength of the signal at a particular location and the conductivity of the user. Apple screwed up and only a redesign will truly cure the problem. A bumper is just a band aid IMO.
    Have you tried an iPhone 4 yet? Ofcourse not. Another airmchair cellphone engineer.


    I can duplicate the signal drop in one location. The strange thing is I get a full five bars there. Other locations where I get less of a signal, I can't get the bars to drop no matter how I hold it. I also find it interesting that even when I have no bars, the call doesn't drop.

    By the way, there are plenty complaints from android and blackberry users showing a similar signal drop when their device is held.

    With all that being said, I have a feeling we will see a new antenna design on the next iPhone.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Have you tried an iPhone 4 yet? Ofcourse not. Another airmchair cellphone engineer.
    Don't have to, other engineers have already, and they commented on it.


    By the way, there are plenty complaints from android and blackberry users showing a similar signal drop when their device is held.
    Yeah like covering the top, bottom or completely cupping it in one's hand? Sure if you try you could probably see a degradation. I've tried on my Droid and haven't seen a drop though but who knows. The point is, you have to hold the phone in ways it wasn't intended. This is a lot different from the iPhone issue where not only there seems to be a lot of degradation but it happens holding the phone normally. If cupping the top or bottom of the phone caused it, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

    With all that being said, I have a feeling we will see a new antenna design on the next iPhone.
    Probably, and they'll find some way to spin it as an 'improvement'.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  17.    #37  
    Here are several engineers stating it is a problem. I do not own one.... looks like there may be a problem. Im no expert, but these guys are :

    iPhone 4 External Antenna Problem | Steve (GRC) Gibson&#039;s Blog
    Steve,

    You’re exactly right about the 1-5 bar reading showing a very limited range of signal strength – at the bottom end of the usable range. This is true of all cellphones, and the bar indicator is only supposed to give a relative indication of likely call quality – any signal stronger than 5 bars whilst stronger, won’t lead to better call quality so isn’t indicated to the user to keep things simple.

    From iPhone OS 1.0 through 3.1.3 there was a “full range” signal strength reading available – field test mode, which was a hidden app launched by dialling *3001#12345#* from the phone app. As well as lots of other technical information it would display exact numeric received signal strength in -dBm, (decibel relative to 1 milliwatt) with a range that went far above a 5 bar signal.

    To give a sense of scale, -113dBm is approximately the weakest 3G signal an iPhone 3G/3GS can maintain a call or data connection with – this corresponds with 1 bar. -100dBm (13 dB stronger) corresponds to 5 bars, with 2 – 4 bars proportionally in between, so the 1 – 5 bar range is only a 13 dB signal range – a relatively small range compared to the real world range of received signals.

    Any signal stronger than -100dBm would still read 5 bars, and if you were within a few hundred yards of a cell tower it’s possible to get a signal as strong as -70dBm (or more) – a full 30dB stronger than the minimum signal necessary to show 5 bars.

    In that instance you could have almost a 30 dB loss in signal without the reading dropping below 5 bars – therefore no visible change to the user or dropped call.

    From looking at the videos that show the signal dropping from 5 bars to No Service, this means that the person testing it must have only just been receiving a signal strong enough to reach an indicated 5 bars, and the signal must have been attenuated when touched by at least 13dB to reach a point of no service. My estimate is the attenuation is probably around 15-20dB.

    So what happened to the field test app, which can display accurate signal strength in decibels over a wide range, and would clear up this whole situation ? It was removed in early beta versions of iOS 4 and remains “missing in action” in the release version of iOS 4, even on older devices like the 3GS.

    Sadly, I don’t think this is a co-incidence.

    Another factor that may affect how much change different people are reporting is that different countries use different frequencies for 3G – AT&T uses 1900 and 850Mhz, (depending on location) while Europe uses primarily 2100Mhz. (With pockets of 900Mhz in a few countries)

    At different operating frequencies the standing wave patterns on the antenna elements will be different, leading to certain points on the antenna being more or less sensitive depending on operating frequency. On some operating frequencies the bottom left corner may be an impedance maximum (voltage point) while at other operating frequencies it may not be. Touching a high impedance point of an antenna always detunes it far more than touching a low impedance point.

    It’s not clear what Apple can do to solve this issue without a significant redesign of the casing (perhaps disconnecting the bottom section from the rest of the antenna system leaving it “floating” rather than being connected to the right hand side) or whether people will just have to put up with rubber bumper cases to get the same level of reception as previous models…
  18. #38  
    All I can say is this, there are a lot of comments on the net from people that have never even tried the new iPhone. I have had the new iPhone since launch date and have not seen an increase in dropped calls. I can make my bars disappear by holding it a certain way (in certain locations). I can't get it to drop calls even when I'm down to zero bars.

    Compared to the previous iPhones, it might be worse, or it might be better; depending on who you ask. I see no real difference at all.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by darreno1 View Post
    Several youtube users readily demonstrated the problem.
    . You win
  20.    #40  
    Ph.D weighs in: Fantastic device, lousy phone

    Richard Gaywood, who has a Ph.D in wireless network planning techniques from Cardiff University, also explained how signal bars on a cell phone work. Calling it a "magic formula" that is "basically made up by the design engineers as they see fit," he said the signal bars themselves are "almost meaningless and should not be relied upon."

    "The bars only indicate how well your phone can listen to the cell tower," he said. "They don't tell you anything about how well the tower can receive your phone, but that's a pretty important part of making a call. Similarly, the phone doesn't know anything about what's going on in the cell provider's network past the tower; if you're on a really busy cell it might not have any spare outgoing circuits to direct your call to, so even if the radio is working fine, you might still not be able to get through."

    Gaywood tested the iPhone 4 in three manners: flat on his hand, held in a usual manner, and then held with a piece of cloth protecting his skin from the phone. Touching the point in the bottom left of the device where the cellular antenna meets the Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and GPS antenna can result in signal degradation or cause dropped calls, as a person's skin acts as a conductive agent bridging the two antennas.

    The tests were conducted both in a "marginal" signal area, as well as a location where signal strength is strong. With marginal signal, holding the phone with one's bare hand had a significant effect on reception, dropping all the way down to EDGE speeds and at one point preventing the device from transferring data.

    "This is a factor that doesn't apply to other modern cell phones, because other modern cell phones don't have electrically active components in contact with their bare skin," he wrote.



    When Apple announced the iPhone 4 earlier this month, the company revealed that the metal band around the outside of the device has breaks in it to allow the multiple antennas inside the device -- for cellular service, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and more -- to establish connections. The larger metal piece on the right side of the phone serves as the GSM/UMTS cellular antenna, and the smaller portion on the left side is responsible for Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and GPS.

    Gaywood's tests also found a performance penalty for the iPhone 4 when held with a bare grip, although signal did not drop to the extent that he did not have a data connection as it did in the marginal reception area. The results suggest that customers in a strong signal area may never notice any issues with the iPhone 4. He also noted that the issues don't "feel like a software fault," suggesting Apple could not fix users' reception woes with an iOS update.

    Finally, he concluded with a personal note: "I'd say that iPhone 4 is a fantastic device but a lousy phone."
    Wireless experts weigh in on iPhone 4 reception issues - AppleInsider
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