Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34
  1. #21  
    the kin was a travesty for lots of reasons -- but in M$'s defense they expected a heavily discounted reduced rate data plan for the kin.

    verizon's decision to screw potential kin buyers with same data plans it charges for full smartphones killed any market opportunity the kin might have had.

    This arbitrary screw the customer, shaft the phone maker attitude of verizon was one of the reasons Jobs insisted on absolute control -- and was a big part of why he signed on with AT&T and not w/verizon
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #22  
    That was retaliation for MSFT taking so long to figure out what they were going to do. 18 month delay is very, very bad. Was Verizon right to do that? Well I think they should have just told MSFT they were canceling outright. A prepaid version could have been sold on Virgin Mobile or something if the big guys wouldn't take it.

    They both failed, but MSFT failed way worse when you read how pettiness actually killed the Kin from the inside. Pettiness that cost them millions. I thought grown-ups worked at MSFT. Verizon's move was petty too, though.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The Kin experience should dispel a few common myths:
    1. The smartphone market growing so fast that any device can sell.
    2. A heavy marketing budget usually does the trick.
    3. The backing of a big company makes all the difference to carriers and customers
    4. Big companies usually have more resources and patience to fund marginal products.
    5. One or two software innovations will sell devices.
    6. Being on the biggest carrier guarantees success.


    The Kin failed not only due to the data plan price but because it didn't have any apps. HP/Palm is probably taking note. The next Palm device will have apps but a good deal fewer than the competition. There is a lot more competition now than there was just a year ago.
    That's why I think HP/Palm's best bet (albeit a challengin one) is to focus on the tablet/netbook space. Android does not yet have a good pool of tablet specific apps and iPad has less than 10k. Alos, HP might have a fighting chance since they don't have to deal with carriers and already have a solid computer distribution network.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The Kin experience should dispel a few common myths:
    1. The smartphone market growing so fast that any device can sell.
    2. A heavy marketing budget usually does the trick.
    3. The backing of a big company makes all the difference to carriers and customers
    4. Big companies usually have more resources and patience to fund marginal products.
    5. One or two software innovations will sell devices.
    6. Being on the biggest carrier guarantees success.


    The Kin failed not only due to the data plan price but because it didn't have any apps. HP/Palm is probably taking note. The next Palm device will have apps but a good deal fewer than the competition. There is a lot more competition now than there was just a year ago.
    I read Allard or whomever was under him wanted apps, but of course the guy who derailed KIN said no, ensuring more likely failure.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  5. #25  
    Zune apps could have been integrated at the very least.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That was retaliation for MSFT taking so long to figure out what they were going to do. 18 month delay is very, very bad. Was Verizon right to do that? Well I think they should have just told MSFT they were canceling outright. A prepaid version could have been sold on Virgin Mobile or something if the big guys wouldn't take it.

    They both failed, but MSFT failed way worse when you read how pettiness actually killed the Kin from the inside. Pettiness that cost them millions. I thought grown-ups worked at MSFT. Verizon's move was petty too, though.
    not doubting you Diva, but do you have a reference link to that story -- that Verizon kept their data rate high in retaliation of M$'s late delivery ??? It seems like a self destructive bit of pique -- one that I'm skeptical of without reading it directly.

    As a separate issue BTW, the primary factor in causing Kin's 18 mo. delay was that after M$ bought Danger, they either fired or made into office furniture the entire Danger team. They then COMPLETELY rewrote/remade the phones software into one of its own.

    If that was their intention, why did they buy Danger in the first place ???
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #27  
    http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/07/a-post-mortem-of-kins-tragic-demise.ars


    "On the face of it, it's astonishing that Verizon would treat the product this way. The pricing model meant that the product would never stand a chance; the lack of promotion crippled it yet further. This is a strange thing to do for an exclusive product with a successful predecessor, especially when Microsoft was willing to do so much promotion of its own.

    A source speaking to Engadget gives some indication of why Verizon acted this way. The mobile operator was allegedly set to give KIN attractive pricing for both handsets and plans—pricing them in reach of its target audience—but Microsoft couldn't get the hardware finished in time."


    What killed the Kin? -- Engadget

    "This move allegedly set the release of the devices back 18 months, during which time Redmond's carrier partner became increasingly frustrated with the delays. Apparently when it came time to actually bring the Kins to market, Big Red had soured on the deal altogether and was no longer planning to offer the bargain-basement pricing deals it first had tendered."


    P.S. Ok maybe retaliation is a bit strong, but it does seem that Verizon wanted to punish MSFT because they couldn't fulfill the end of their deal in a timely manner.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 07/10/2010 at 11:42 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    ...

    the SVP of Microsoft's mobile division -- instructed everyone to go back to the drawing board and rebuild the OS based on Windows CE. It appears the company didn't want a project that wasn't directly connected to its Windows kernel. ...

    "...This move allegedly set the release of the devices back 18 months, during which time Redmond's carrier partner became increasingly frustrated with the delays. Apparently when it came time to actually bring the Kins to market, Big Red had soured on the deal altogether and was no longer planning to offer the bargain-basement pricing deals it first had tendered."


    P.S. Ok maybe retaliation is a bit strong, but it does seem that Verizon wanted to punish MSFT because they couldn't fulfill the end of their deal in a timely manner.
    thanks Diva --

    the sentence I've added to your quote confirms what I'd heard -- M$ rewriting the software from scratch.

    So why again did they buy Danger ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #29  
    Diva -- I've just read the Ars Technica article you linked to. Its a very good piece, and provides alot more color and details about M$'s Kin/Danger abortion.

    It also reenforces my views regarding the state of M$, and their prospects for success with Win 7 mobile.

    I've excerpted the article below:


    ...The switch to Verizon ... meant that Microsoft lost the Sidekick branding. Though the handsets were generally known as Sidekicks, they are, properly, called Hiptops; that's what Danger called them. T-Mobile, the biggest seller of Danger's devices, branded them as Sidekicks, and that's the name that stuck. The value of the pre-existing Sidekick userbase was wiped out by the move to Verizon, and though there were benefits (Verizon's network is more extensive than T-Mobile's), abandoning existing users and strong branding was a high price to pay.

    ...Microsoft couldn't get the hardware finished in time.

    The fundamental reason for these delays, the source claims, was a problem that is all too familiar in the software industry: Not Invented Here syndrome. Danger's phone software was Java-based, but rather than continuing to build on this codebase—a codebase that was already driving a range of successful products—the "strategic" decision was made to scrap everything and build on Windows CE instead.

    This decision, it is claimed, set the project back by some 18 months. Verizon lost patience with Microsoft, and so dropped its teenage-friendly pricing structure in favor of the smartphone-level costs we see now.
    ...


    In May 2009, Mr. Myerson, decided to kill it because it was competing with his own baby, WP7. Since WP7 was not ready (still today is far [from] ready!) the exec told him KIN could continue. As retaliation, he killed the support of his team to KIN project. Guess what? KIN team had to take over a lot of base code postponing all the value added apps+services. Now you get why there is lack of apps on KIN...


    ...KIN, in spite of a little branding to the contrary, is not a Windows phone. The operating system driving it is totally irrelevant. KIN isn't a development platform that third parties can write applications for—it's a gadget, not a computer. Whether it be Java or .NET or flippin' COBOL under the covers makes not a jot of difference. Delaying a product's entry into a fast-moving, cut-throat market to make a platform change with zero user-visible impact is asinine.

    It might not have been such a problem if Microsoft had a bulletproof, good quality mobile platform to migrate to. But it didn't. The Windows Mobile 6.x line is in the slow process of being killed off, to be replaced with the wholly incompatible Windows Phone 7. Though this is not a bad decision for the future of Microsoft's smartphone platform, it meant that the KIN team had to aim at a moving target: a phone OS that wasn't finished yet...


    It is KIN's very proximity to the Windows Phone 7 launch that left people scratching their heads and wondering just what on earth they must be smoking up in Redmond. Releasing two different, incompatible phone platforms within the space of about six months? Both of them "built" on "Windows"? But not the same? It's no wonder people are mystified about Microsoft's apparent lack of phone strategy: in this context, the KIN launch was mind-boggling.

    Leaving KIN phones as just KIN phones—and not Windows Phones—would have avoided the entire mess. After all, of course a KIN launched in 2008 wasn't going to be the same platform as Windows Phone 7. Windows Phone 7 didn't even exist back then! Moreover, a launch with the correct pricing would have made the strategy much clearer too: teenager-friendly pricing would have made it abundantly obvious that KIN isn't a smartphone, so who would even care about the OS?

    Massive value destruction

    Alas, it was not to be. Reinventing the Sidekick from the ground up resulted in a product that was priced like a smartphone, and launched within spitting distance of Microsoft's new smartphone platform. Lousy sales were inevitable, killing what should have been a great product, and the whole debacle has made Microsoft's already shaky mobile strategy just look even worse.

    Killing KIN off so soon after launching it is embarrassing for Microsoft, and it represents a phenomenal destruction of value. The purchase price of Danger is estimated at around a half billion dollars, and the most significant product to come out of that purchase has been cancelled after a couple months on the market...


    Microsoft took a company with a successful product line and destroyed it. The Sidekick successor, KIN, was hobbled by a plainly stupid management decision, such that its failure was assured. To make matters even worse, T-Mobile has just canned the original Sidekick. There's essentially nothing left of Danger now. An innovative company with exciting products was killed by what appears to be stubborn managerial incompetence....


    Effective July 1st, Microsoft has reorganized the division that contains both KIN and Windows Phone, as a result of Robbie Bach and J Allard leaving the company, but it's hard to say that this is a step in the right direction: Engadget's source fingers Andy Lees as the one who forced KIN to use Windows CE, and he's still there, now reporting directly to Steve Ballmer.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10.    #30  
    Hi all,

    No matter how you slice it, MS has a large problem. They always seem to have problems, when it comes to developing products, outside of their core business.......losting win 7 for slate from HP must have also hurt!

    Take care, jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  11. #31  
    Your absolultey correct ILoveDessert. Microsoft has failed at alot of things outside of there core biz. If it wasnt for the fact that they are willing to lose money the Xbox would be a faliure.
  12.    #32  
    Hi all,

    As far as MS is concerned, long gone are those heady days when we all ran out to switch from MS DOS, to windows 95. Since then, it has been down hill at a relatively fast clip...it amazes me that the figured out how to turn GOLD into LEAD! LOL,

    Take care, jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  13. #33  
    The people at MSFT who are in charge are too old school, that's why. Old school experience isn't all bad(I'm kinda old myself, lol). But you must adapt to changing times also, or get left behind. The Kin failure shows how too much old school thinking ruined a good marketing tool.

    I think I saw an article(or it was buried in another article) about how young tech graduates are avoiding MSFT. MSFT needs to court these people to finally become relevant in other sectors.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #34  
    I'm not sure if you guys have ever read the minimsft blog but it's pretty shocking just how dire things sound behind the scenes.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions