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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    No i think the reason is because with the iPhone area, its more of a natural holding position for some.
    Did you even watch the video? The Nokia was held in a natural position. That is true for most of the Android phones coming out as well as phones from the past. It is only an issue because it is the iPhone 4. People are trying to find something to slow down the run away sales of this device. The issue has been around since forever. It is just that no one cared.
  2.    #62  
    I went bowling with my Brother-in-law yesterday and he was showing off his iphone4 to me. He was so proud of it, the screen, the dual cameras, yadda yadda. I played along and looked impressed. (Which i kinda was, that screen IS nice) I asked if I could see it and did my own left handed test. Low and behold after about 10 seconds, the bars started to tick down one by one till it was fluctuating between no bars and one and the 3G signal died, and switched to edge.

    The incredible thing is, he didn't care. I think this is attitude of most of the Apple f-a-n-b-o-i-s out there. They agree with Steve Jobs that they should just hold the phone a different way, and he rationalized the hell out of it. Maybe deep down he was p-i-s-s-ed and couldn't bear to admit that his precious had a flaw. I'm pretty sure, the next time i see him, it will have a case on it. f-a-n-b-o-i-s are so enthralled by the damn thing. I just don't get it. IT'S A PHONE! Better make sure your skin is dry as hell if you want to use that phone with your left hand.

    Oh, you can order the fix/cure from the snake oil salesman that is Apple in the shape of a bumper case. The doctor that created the illness is selling the cure. Amazing.
    Last edited by MP715; 06/29/2010 at 09:49 AM. Reason: f-a-n-b-0-i is bad word and is blocked? Friggen censorship
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Did you even watch the video? The Nokia was held in a natural position. That is true for most of the Android phones coming out as well as phones from the past. It is only an issue because it is the iPhone 4. People are trying to find something to slow down the run away sales of this device. The issue has been around since forever. It is just that no one cared.
    Man .. you spend a lot of time defending iphone on precentral.net..."just sayin"

    the big difference is this... Did you watch Steve Jobs at Conference relieving his amazing new iphone. He was gloating... and arrogant as always( until he could not connect wifi, then he was ****ed). He "promoted" the new iphone antenna and sod consumers on an improved reception experience on new iphone4.
    iPhone 4 deconstructed; antenna design a "work of genius" FAIL

    iPhone 4 deconstructed; antenna design a "work of genius"

    Then you compare the Nokia 2320 to the new , improved body antenna on iphone4 ?
    When Apple has design flaws... bugs, defects... you say " People are trying to find something to slow down the run away sales of this device." But when Palm release's its first webos phone with a completely different form factor...and it has bugs, defects... they are inferior. Eventhough they have a fraction of the resources apple does.
    APPLE releases 1 phone a year. STEVE JOBS personally touted this new antenna to the world. Claiming improved reception. People were sold on it.. and many who felt they liked the iphone but hated call quality... finally jumped in and bought one... then this flaw is uncovered... and Steve jobs states this :
    Apple responds to iPhone 4 reception issues: you're holding the phone the wrong way -- Engadget

    Thats like me going to the doctors and saying " it hursts when i do this"... and he/she say " then dont do that."

    Come on... calling you out on your nonsense is getting old. I am defending WEBOS on precentral... You are on here discrediting it.. and promoting APPLE quality and superiority...
    Last edited by clutch1222; 06/29/2010 at 09:52 AM. Reason: sp
  4. solarus's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Did you even watch the video? The Nokia was held in a natural position. That is true for most of the Android phones coming out as well as phones from the past. It is only an issue because it is the iPhone 4. People are trying to find something to slow down the run away sales of this device. The issue has been around since forever. It is just that no one cared.
    Yeah its a big conspiracy by everyone that doesn't own or want to own an iPhone!!

    The problem is the way in which Steve Jobs replied to complaints - "hold it another way" is a cop-out, the same way Nokia's materials were. Bottom line is that most other phones (Nokia 71 excluded obviously ) that exhibit degradation of signal when being held don't drop from 5 bars to 1.

    Throw in the fact that many consider Steve Jobs, not just one of the best CEOs around, but also one of the most arrogant, and what do you expect? The press aren't going to give Apple a free pass on the claim of a "superior antenna" when it clearly shows worse signal degradation than its current competition (the Nokia in the video is NOT remotely close to being competitive to the iPhone or any other phone release in the last 6 months).

    Don't get me wrong, the iPhone 4 is still a very impressive device. The problem with the antenna doesn't make the iPhone a bad device, it just makes it not perfect. That been said you can't blow off the antenna issue by saying its jealousy when the problem not only exists but is worse in the iPhone 4 than just about all of the competitor devices out there.
    Last edited by solarus; 06/29/2010 at 10:20 AM.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    That been said you can't blow off the antenna issue by saying its jealousy when the problem not only exists but is worse in the iPhone 4 than just about all of the competitor devices out there.
    That's just it. There is no proof that the iPhone 4 has a worse problem than competitive devices. Droid, Evo, they have all demonstrated this problem. It is just that they don't make the news because no one cares. It is only the news when it's the iPhone. You won't be able to come up with a modern phone that doesn't have the problem. Furthermore, I do contend that the grip required to make this happen on the iPhone is not the most natural way to hold it. I have one and can repeat the experiment myself. But that is not the way I normally hold the phone. That is why none of the professional reviewers noticed this problem, and almost all reported having a better signal that on previous iPhones.
  6. #66  
    Show me a video where the Evo in a NATURAL position for making calls is dropping calls and single going to Zero.

    Please....i would love to see this.
  7. solarus's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That's just it. There is no proof that the iPhone 4 has a worse problem than competitive devices. Droid, Evo, they have all demonstrated this problem. It is just that they don't make the news because no one cares. It is only the news when it's the iPhone. You won't be able to come up with a modern phone that doesn't have the problem. Furthermore, I do contend that the grip required to make this happen on the iPhone is not the most natural way to hold it. I have one and can repeat the experiment myself. But that is not the way I normally hold the phone. That is why none of the professional reviewers noticed this problem, and almost all reported having a better signal that on previous iPhones.

    I don't doubt that without the antenna being "bridged" the signal is better - that WAS the entire point of having the antenna on the "outside" of the device to start with.

    Actually I'm pretty sure that Engadget or Gizmodo, or any other number of sites would have proudly written up stories if there were issues with 5 bars going to 1, had it occurred in the Droid, EVO and other phones. Other issues that the EVO, Droid, Pre, etc... had were covered extensively so there is no reason to suspect the media and blogs would not have covered antenna issues if they too existed to the same extent as the iPhone 4.

    I have yet to see a video showing any other phone (Nokia excepted) dropping its signal as bad the iPhone 4. For that matter I haven't even seen large number of complaints about other phones either. This certainly is indicative that the signal degradation on other competitor phones, when handled, isn't remotely as bad as the iPhone 4.

    As for the natural holding position - that will of course vary by user. It may not be a problem for you but it may be for others. I used to have an iPhone, and I can tell you that I would likely have an issue - where the "bridge" would have to occur on the iPhone 4 is right where by bottom two fingers would rest when talking on the phone.
    Last edited by solarus; 06/29/2010 at 10:48 AM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    Actually I'm pretty sure that Engadget or Gizmodo, or any other number of sites would have proudly written up stories if there were issues with 5 bars going to 1, had it occurred in the Droid, EVO and other phones. Other issues that the EVO, Droid, Pre, etc... had were covered extensively so there is no reason to suspect the media and blogs would not have covered antenna issues if they too existed to the same extent as the iPhone 4.
    I remind you that they didn't uncover the issue with the iPhone either. You kind of have to know about it, or suspect it, or want to find it. In real life, it simply is not an issue.

    As for other phones... I have linked to a video demonstrating Nokia. It is not easy to find such videos for all of the devices because NO ONE CARES! It simply is not news. But here's the best I could do with a minute on Google.

    Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue
    Posted by Nickywaldo on 11 Jun 2010 9:04 AM
    OK - here's my take on who is complaining and who is not.......
    When I have good signal, and I hold the phone normally (hand on back of phone) - I lose about 20dB of signal. That's a lot of signal, but if I am in a strong signal area, it doesn't make any difference on the call quality (not that I could hear).
    When you are in a average signal area (my home is about 79) and I put my hand on the back, as normal. I get 99 to 101, which absolutely results in bad call quality. I hold the phone with my fingertips at the top and it gets better, hold it normall and quality gets worse.
    Went to the store yesterday, they all have this problem and guess what the antenna is right where your hand would be on the back! So what are the choices... Switch to the DROID - a step back in my opinion, but they got one out and i checked it. It also loses some signal, but I could only see a loss of about 5dB worst case, so it would likely be ok.
    So it is a real problem... It does appear to be HW, I cannot see how a SW fix could solve the sgnail drain caused by your hand absorbing the signal from the antenna.
    I don't want to go backwards and was still in my 30 days with Verizon and the phone, so it is Hello EVO at Sprint for me and so far - it is absolutely great!

    Good luck.. you need to demand a fix!!!!!, but I can't see how they can deal with it in the field.
    Nick

    Re: Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue - DROID INCREDIBLE by HTC (Verizon) - Android Forums - HTC Community

    Note, this was an issue before the iPhone 4 was even released.
  9. solarus's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I remind you that they didn't uncover the issue with the iPhone either. You kind of have to know about it, or suspect it, or want to find it. In real life, it simply is not an issue.

    As for other phones... I have linked to a video demonstrating Nokia. It is not easy to find such videos for all of the devices because NO ONE CARES! It simply is not news. But here's the best I could do with a minute on Google.

    Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue
    Posted by Nickywaldo on 11 Jun 2010 9:04 AM
    OK - here's my take on who is complaining and who is not.......
    When I have good signal, and I hold the phone normally (hand on back of phone) - I lose about 20dB of signal. That's a lot of signal, but if I am in a strong signal area, it doesn't make any difference on the call quality (not that I could hear).
    When you are in a average signal area (my home is about 79) and I put my hand on the back, as normal. I get 99 to 101, which absolutely results in bad call quality. I hold the phone with my fingertips at the top and it gets better, hold it normall and quality gets worse.
    Went to the store yesterday, they all have this problem and guess what the antenna is right where your hand would be on the back! So what are the choices... Switch to the DROID - a step back in my opinion, but they got one out and i checked it. It also loses some signal, but I could only see a loss of about 5dB worst case, so it would likely be ok.
    So it is a real problem... It does appear to be HW, I cannot see how a SW fix could solve the sgnail drain caused by your hand absorbing the signal from the antenna.
    I don't want to go backwards and was still in my 30 days with Verizon and the phone, so it is Hello EVO at Sprint for me and so far - it is absolutely great!

    Good luck.. you need to demand a fix!!!!!, but I can't see how they can deal with it in the field.
    Nick

    Re: Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue - DROID INCREDIBLE by HTC (Verizon) - Android Forums - HTC Community

    Note, this was an issue before the iPhone 4 was even released.
    I never claimed the problem didn't exist on other phones. It does, just no where near the extent it does on the iPhone. I also never claimed the problem on the iPhone will always result in reduced call quality or even dropped calls. My only problem is that its exists and the snarky response from Steve Job's was typical of his arrogance. A smarter response would be to simply acknowledge the issue, give a humble apology while acknowledging the issue happens on all phones, and give everyone who asks a free bumper (like Apple UK did).

    Forget about who found the issue first, it really doesn't matter if it was Steve Jobs himself or Steve Ballmer. There is always a first to uncover something. What is important is the fact that every other site was able to reproduce the results very easily. Again we're talking 5 bars to 1 here not 5 to 3 or 4 to 2, full signal to virtually no signal.

    "No one cares" Are you serious....I'm pretty sure crackberry addicts and the media would go nuts if their new phone dropped from 5 bars to 1 simply by holding it a certain way. The number of threads on this site should tell you that Palm followers are more than happy to point out the flaws in their devices. Need I go on!

    I acknowledge that Apple's own touting of how revolutionary the new antenna is no doubt went a long way to the type of coverage they are now receiving. And deservedly so. No-one gets to claim they have the best mobile antenna system and then have it fail so much more than other phone's antenna when handled and still get a free pass from the press. If Blackberry, HTC or Motorola came out and claimed their antenna's were so much better than the competition and produced the same results as the iPhone 4 they would be crucified just as much.
    Last edited by solarus; 06/29/2010 at 11:54 AM.
  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That's just it. There is no proof that the iPhone 4 has a worse problem than competitive devices. Droid, Evo, they have all demonstrated this problem. It is just that they don't make the news because no one cares. It is only the news when it's the iPhone. You won't be able to come up with a modern phone that doesn't have the problem. Furthermore, I do contend that the grip required to make this happen on the iPhone is not the most natural way to hold it. I have one and can repeat the experiment myself. But that is not the way I normally hold the phone. That is why none of the professional reviewers noticed this problem, and almost all reported having a better signal that on previous iPhones.
    Are you kidding dude? Have you not seen any of the 20-30 videos clearly showing the problem. I myself have demonstrated the issue to my iphone toting, apple loving brother-in-law. He's a f-a-n-b-o-i like you, in denial, and thinks it's perfect. If you think that bridging the two antenna's with your skin is not a problem then you're a m-o-r-o-n
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I remind you that they didn't uncover the issue with the iPhone either. You kind of have to know about it, or suspect it, or want to find it. In real life, it simply is not an issue.

    As for other phones... I have linked to a video demonstrating Nokia. It is not easy to find such videos for all of the devices because NO ONE CARES! It simply is not news. But here's the best I could do with a minute on Google.

    Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue
    Posted by Nickywaldo on 11 Jun 2010 9:04 AM
    OK - here's my take on who is complaining and who is not.......
    When I have good signal, and I hold the phone normally (hand on back of phone) - I lose about 20dB of signal. That's a lot of signal, but if I am in a strong signal area, it doesn't make any difference on the call quality (not that I could hear).
    When you are in a average signal area (my home is about 79) and I put my hand on the back, as normal. I get 99 to 101, which absolutely results in bad call quality. I hold the phone with my fingertips at the top and it gets better, hold it normall and quality gets worse.
    Went to the store yesterday, they all have this problem and guess what the antenna is right where your hand would be on the back! So what are the choices... Switch to the DROID - a step back in my opinion, but they got one out and i checked it. It also loses some signal, but I could only see a loss of about 5dB worst case, so it would likely be ok.
    So it is a real problem... It does appear to be HW, I cannot see how a SW fix could solve the sgnail drain caused by your hand absorbing the signal from the antenna.
    I don't want to go backwards and was still in my 30 days with Verizon and the phone, so it is Hello EVO at Sprint for me and so far - it is absolutely great!

    Good luck.. you need to demand a fix!!!!!, but I can't see how they can deal with it in the field.
    Nick

    [url= Poor Signal/Reception - Major Issue - DROID INCREDIBLE by HTC (Verizon) - Android Forums - HTC Community[/url]

    Note, this was an issue before the iPhone 4 was even released.
    you are missing the reason everyone IS making a big deal about reception on new iphone4. Steve Jobs announced a new hi tech body antenna to address past issues on previous models. I can find many links describing iphone as a great smartphone... But bad cellphone. Apple took note of the concerns and addressed it proudly with this new body antenna... And FAILED. What part of that do you not understand? They sold people on iphone4 being a better CELLPHONE with new antenna...and it's not. It maybe just normal at best with new antenna.. But many are arguing it's worse.
    it's a FAIL for apple PRPRPR.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    Forget about who found the issue first, it really doesn't matter if it was Steve Jobs himself or Steve Ballmer.
    Actually, it does. A real issue would have been spotted by normal people who actually use the device. It says something that it took someone with an axe to grind to find it. Your are correct that once found, it can't be unfound. But it does show that it was not a big deal before it was artificially made to be one.

    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    "No one cares" Are you serious....
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I'm pretty sure crackberry addicts would go nuts if their new phone dropped from 5 bars to 1 simply by holding it a certain way.
    I'm pretty sure some Blackberries probably do, just like many phones on the market. The only reason you don't know about them is that NO ONE CARES! I had these issues with everyone of my Sprint phones back in the day. It wasn't news. It certainly wasn't link bait for opportunists. And more importantly, there was no iPhone for people to try to kill. Now the best they can do is to flog an issue that has been prevalent in phones for as long as there have been phones. There has been plenty of discussion about it, as I have tried to demonstrate. It is just that the iPhone 4 has it too, and that makes it news. The iPhone didn't fix this stupid non-issue anymore than it cured cancer. I hardly see the point, neither do the hundreds of people standing in line right now.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by MP715 View Post
    ...then you're a m-o-r-o-n
    You might want to rethink that kind of personal attack, bro.

    And unlike you, I actually use the iPhone every day to make calls, not to make a point on discussion forums. It makes calls just fine. That is the point.
    Last edited by dandbj13; 06/29/2010 at 12:20 PM. Reason: clarity
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    They sold people on iphone4 being a better CELLPHONE with new antenna...and it's not. It maybe just normal at best with new antenna.. it's a FAIL for apple PRPRPR.
    On this point, you will get no argument out of me. Although, the professional reviewers reported an improvement. So did Jimmy Fallon FWIW. I can't say for sure if it is an improvement as my house is a dead zone, and always has been. Yet I don't drop any more calls with this phone than any other. This is most certainly a FAIL in PRPRPR, $not$ $in$ $engineering$.
  15. solarus's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Actually, it does. A real issue would have been spotted by normal people who actually use the device. It says something that it took someone with an axe to grind to find it. Your are correct that once found, it can't be unfound. But it does show that it was not a big deal before it was artificially made to be one.
    That's your problem there...it wasn't found with anyone with an ax to grind, it was found my Apple's own customers. Within a day of the first iPhone arriving at customer's doorsteps, the Apple support forums were full of people complaining about dropped signal levels. It took some enterprising blogger to figure out why the problem was happening but the problem itself was acknowledged by Apple's own customers well before the blogs posted the reason why.



    Yep.

    I'm pretty sure some Blackberries probably do, just like many phones on the market. The only reason you don't know about them is that NO ONE CARES! I had these issues with everyone of my Sprint phones back in the day. It wasn't news. It certainly wasn't link bait for opportunists. And more importantly, there was no iPhone for people to try to kill. Now the best they can do is to flog an issue that has been prevalent in phones for as long as there have been phones. There has been plenty of discussion about it, as I have tried to demonstrate. It is just that the iPhone 4 has it too, and that makes it news. The iPhone didn't fix this stupid non-issue anymore than it cured cancer. I hardly see the point, neither do the hundreds of people standing in line right now.
    This last paragraph pretty much tells me its no use to continue trying to have a rational discussion - you are lost! I don't care how successful the iPhone is, it is successful b/c it is a very impressive device, nothing more nothing less. But if you think that the world only cares about Apple products and that only Apple products are subject to serious scrutiny by the press then you are seriously deranged. Have fun in your lala Apple can do no wrong world. Bye bye.




    I will point out again that a lot of Apple fans spend way more time than any other fans visiting forums for competitor products touting the brilliance of Apple's products and/or defending them - I think that says quite a lot about how insecure they must be about themselves.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    ...you are seriously deranged. Have fun in your lala Apple can do no wrong world...
    It always comes down to something like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I will point out again that a lot of Apple fans spend way more time than any other fans visiting forums for competitor products touting the brilliance of Apple's products and/or defending them - I think that says quite a lot about how insecure they must be about themselves.
    I remind you that this thread was started on a Palm fan board by a Palm fan talking smack about a competitor. Insecure? Really?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I will point out again that a lot of Apple fans spend way more time than any other fans visiting forums for competitor products touting the brilliance of Apple's products and/or defending them - I think that says quite a lot about how insecure they must be about themselves.
    That's an interesting point you raise given how many iPhone and Apple bashing threads I see on Precentral. Far more than on other non apple sites. There is plenty of Android and Blackberry bashing too (but not nearly as much).

    That suggests to me that the insecurity lies with the WebOS fans.
  18. #78  
    I could tell you right now, I've never seen this on my droid even when I hold it tight. Maybe it's the whole gsm thing and the frequencies they use causing them to be more susceptible. In any case it's a poor design on Apple's part and there's little excuse for it as it should have been dealth with before release.
    Last edited by darreno1; 06/29/2010 at 02:31 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  19. #79  
    Never seen it on my Pre at all..never saw it on my Treo 755p and never saw it on my blackberry curve.

    Yet its a major issue the launch day of the phone after Steve touted it as an improvement.

    If you want i'll make youtube videos testing it with phones i have around my house...i haven't seen it happen since i purposely did it to a flip phone with an external antenna back in the day.
  20. #80  
    The same problem also occurs on some Nokia phones, the Droid Incredible and the Nexus 1. Check out the videos of all three exhibiting the problem when held. Apple isn't alone in this.
    MacDailyNews - MarketWatch's Poletti: Apple can no longer afford clumsy product launches
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