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  1.    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    No kidding. I can't decide if it's the HP Moto Q or the HP Samsung Blackjack. Did they even design/manufacture any part of that phone themselves?

    Clearly the HP culture has had little room for innovation in the handheld department to date. It will be interesting to see if little ol' Palm can make a dent in the culture of mobile technology dinosaur they're going to go work for.
    yes... It will be interesting. They just spent 1.2 billion... and are on a mad spending spree... buying up tech goodies on sale in bad economy.

    "As Yoda would say, "Powerful you've become, Apple, the Dark Side I sense in you." ;-)
  2.    #162  
    one reason evryone else should worry about apple......



    Very funny because it is very true. Pure entertainment
  3. #164  
    [MODERATOR NOTE]
    The posts with remarks about other users are removed.

    Talk about the phones. Talk about the companies. Don't call each other names.

    - Craig
    [/MODERATOR NOTE]
  4.    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    [MODERATOR NOTE]
    The posts with remarks about other users are removed.

    Talk about the phones. Talk about the companies. Don't call each other names.

    - Craig
    [/MODERATOR NOTE]
    Fair enough... This thread is dead because the news has started to trickle out. The news is big and so are HP's Plan's.
    I grew from this one thread. I can look back and read this and see the many mistakes I made in expressing an opinion. It was tough to keep my cool for the past 5 months. The outlook was very grim... and the vultures were circulating this forum... putting down webos enthusiasts and disrespecting the underdog Palm.
    The sun is out and the future is bright. I will take this thread as a lesson learned on communicating more effectively. I thank every single person that took the time to contribute their opinions to this thread. I look forward to more good news from HP Palm....Long Live Palm!
  5. #166  
    I never even thought about this, but now Im kind of worried. I dont want the webos platform to go after just the apple iOS and now with HP buying them Im kinda worried that's all they will go after. Thinking about their wannabe MBP line, Envy, it would make sense that the webos phones will now parallel the envy as HPs take on apple products. I sure hope there is a business model offered that isnt so iphoneish....
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  6. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    I never even thought about this, but now Im kind of worried. I dont want the webos platform to go after just the apple iOS and now with HP buying them Im kinda worried that's all they will go after. Thinking about their wannabe MBP line, Envy, it would make sense that the webos phones will now parallel the envy as HPs take on apple products. I sure hope there is a business model offered that isnt so iphoneish....
    In my opinion, your concern is valid, however, I see a difference between hp's envy line, and their plans for palm.

    The main reason I am not too worried of hp using webos to copycat apple is because most of palm, as a company is still intact, and are responsible for developing the smartphones running webos. I think palm did a great job in with creating a true competitor to the iphone. The concept was great, its just that they didn't have the money to execute on their plans effectively, resulting in the lack of features and so-so hardware we all complain about.

    I think in the short term there isn't anything to worry about, the phones that are coming out next are going to be entirely palm engineering, but who knows what hp has planned in the long term.
  7. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    In my opinion, your concern is valid, however, I see a difference between hp's envy line, and their plans for palm.

    The main reason I am not too worried of hp using webos to copycat apple is because most of palm, as a company is still intact, and are responsible for developing the smartphones running webos. I think palm did a great job in with creating a true competitor to the iphone. The concept was great, its just that they didn't have the money to execute on their plans effectively, resulting in the lack of features and so-so hardware we all complain about.

    I think in the short term there isn't anything to worry about, the phones that are coming out next are going to be entirely palm engineering, but who knows what hp has planned in the long term.
    I am both hopeful and worried at the same time. At this point Im just waiting to see what time will tell...
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  8. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    The concept was great, its just that they didn't have the money to execute on their plans effectively, resulting in the lack of features and so-so hardware we all complain about.
    Palm had the money and didn't have a problem spending it. "Their plans" is what was flawed.
  9.    #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Palm had the money and didn't have a problem spending it. "Their plans" is what was flawed.
    are you suggesting that Palm had the money / scale to release polished hardware / software /marketing etc... To compete with apple google marketing etc.?
    if palm had more $$ for are R . And D, $$$ for PRPRPR $etc$ $the$ $pre$ $launch$ $would$ $have$ $been$ $drastically$ $improved$ $imo$
    . The time it took to launch from it's announcement was a huge blow to the buzz... What do you think caused that delay? Do you think palm intentionally waited that long?
  10.    #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    If Palm truly didn't have enough capital to put out competitive smartphone then Jon Rubinstein should be fired for incompetence because he wasted a lot of people's time and money putting out an uncompetitive product like that. They would have been better off being acquired two years ago.
    I 100% disagree with you. Palm launched a gr8 phone. They did the best they could with what they had. Their timing was off...due to $$$. Google jumped in and the game changed fast. If palm could look back and do it differently with what they know now... They prob would not have launched exclusive on sprint and would have changed marketing. Maybe they didn't have the scale to release pre on all 3 carriers quicker than they did.
    Would anyone have paid for webos without it proving itself first? palm launched a phone with what is arguably the best mobile OS on market..webOS. Following your monday morning qbing.... We would not have webos.
    so... With that said, can everyone viewing this post their opinion on untidyguy's comment?

    1.)should palm have fired Rubi?
    2.) did palm do what was possible in fast changing market?
  11. #172  
    As expected there are quite a few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. It doesn't matter how polished, how perfect or how pretty the Pre was/is, the masses weren't buying it because of it's appearance and partially because of the abysmal marketing campaign.

    HP doesn't yet appear to be interested in throwing anything into the smart phone market at all. Maybe that will change.

    The phone wasn't great, it was fair at best. A nice O/S with tons of potential doesn't make it anymore. Too many players in the competition have smacked it to the sidelines.

    Not sure if HP can recover the Pre or WebOS even if they wanted to now.
  12.    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    As expected there are quite a few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. It doesn't matter how polished, how perfect or how pretty the Pre was/is, the masses weren't buying it because of it's appearance and partially because of the abysmal marketing campaign.

    HP doesn't yet appear to be interested in throwing anything into the smart phone market at all. Maybe that will change.

    The phone wasn't great, it was fair at best. A nice O/S with tons of potential doesn't make it anymore. Too many players in the competition have smacked it to the sidelines.

    Not sure if HP can recover the Pre or WebOS even if they wanted to now.
    Welcome back... you mus have been gone for a while... because if you still thnk HP is not appearing to be interested in smartphones... you are in the dark.
    watch this video and then reread your post.
    http://www.precentral.net/hp-cto-phi...n-ben-and-dion

    "few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. "
    I love this approach. HP just spent 1.x billion on webos. They have enormous scale( watch the video). Are they pre evangelists? ...LOL

    Answer this question. At pre launch june 2009, other than the iphone, what other smartphone was better than the pre?
    The pre is over a year old now.... and yes it is dated.
  13. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Welcome back... you mus have been gone for a while... because if you still thnk HP is not appearing to be interested in smartphones... you are in the dark.
    watch this video and then reread your post.
    http://www.precentral.net/hp-cto-phi...n-ben-and-dion

    "few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. "
    I love this approach. HP just spent 1.x billion on webos. They have enormous scale( watch the video). Are they pre evangelists? ...LOL

    Answer this question. At pre launch june 2009, other than the iphone, what other smartphone was better than the pre?
    The pre is over a year old now.... and yes it is dated.
    Yeah, you're an evangelist and evangelists make me laugh. If I really truly cared I'd go back and point out that glaring, obvious factoid.

    1 billion is pocket change for HP. You're reading way too much into the interview. CTO's, CEO's, CFO's, etc...will say anything they feel is necessary to make their company look good to investors.

    You're continuing to fool yourself if you believe HP cares one whit about the minority power user/tinkerer/homebrew folks. It would be nice if they did because of the great work the homebrew folks do but HP is a monster corporation and you seem to have forgotten that salient point. Where is the incentive to cater to the 2% of the user base that wants dozens of different features when the other 98% are satisfied?

    I bought a near launch day Pre. It worked ok for a few weeks then the problems began. Was it the best at the time? Perhaps. But, at the time it suited my needs but always left me feeling like I was missing some key components that should have been there from the start.

    My original post stands.
  14. #175  
    Palm absolutely had enough money to launch a competitive product. Twice, in fact. Their blunders were at the design stage.

    1) Pre was launched to be competitive with the iPhone 3G which was a huge mistake. By the time, they could get it to market, Apple had a new version that smoked the Pre, and has now refreshed THAT model with one that plain embarrasses it in every objective hardware capacity. Thus, HPalm will have to play catchup again rather than leapfrogging the competition.
    2) The Pre was a flawed design from the jump. The USB port was cheaply covered and placed in an inconvenient area that lent itself to causing stress cracks. The audio jacks had the same "ghost headphones" problem previous Palm devices from several years ago had. The button was pointless and yet another stress point. Etc., etc.
    3) The screen was barely size competitive with what was out when it launched, and got dwarfed by the handsets hitting the market less than a year later.
    4) The Pixi was a hardware step backwards for a platform that had yet to even establish itself. Crappier screen, camera, and processor in the name of "being a a new Centro". Problem is....that market doesn't exist anymore. The Smartphone game moves so fast that "the new Centro" is last year's flagship, not some new gimped piece of equipment.

    These were all BAD design decisions that absolutely had nothing to do with the amount of money on hand.
  15.    #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    My point is that if you really think Palm didn't have enough money to develop and launch a competitive product then it's the job of the CEO to either obtain the required funding or sell the company to an entity that can do it. It would be ridiculous to cobble together what you can afford to do and see what happens. It's like you are saying that Palm couldn't afford to develop and market something competitive so they did the Pre and Pixi. Now, a couple of years later and with two successful competitors (one more than before) they are ready to throw hundreds of millions into a proper product and launch?
    "A great product culture also tolerates failure. Palm always developed both evolutionary products safe products with additional features sought by customers and revolutionary products, riskier products that might require a few iterations before success. It took three generations of the Treo to create a huge hit." former ceo co founder of palm.

    Your disagree with your opinion. I agree with hers. This is why i believe in webOS
  16.    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Palm absolutely had enough money to launch a competitive product. Twice, in fact. Their blunders were at the design stage.

    1) Pre was launched to be competitive with the iPhone 3G which was a huge mistake. By the time, they could get it to market, Apple had a new version that smoked the Pre, and has now refreshed THAT model with one that plain embarrasses it in every objective hardware capacity. Thus, HPalm will have to play catchup again rather than leapfrogging the competition.
    2) The Pre was a flawed design from the jump. The USB port was cheaply covered and placed in an inconvenient area that lent itself to causing stress cracks. The audio jacks had the same "ghost headphones" problem previous Palm devices from several years ago had. The button was pointless and yet another stress point. Etc., etc.
    3) The screen was barely size competitive with what was out when it launched, and got dwarfed by the handsets hitting the market less than a year later.
    4) The Pixi was a hardware step backwards for a platform that had yet to even establish itself. Crappier screen, camera, and processor in the name of "being a a new Centro". Problem is....that market doesn't exist anymore. The Smartphone game moves so fast that "the new Centro" is last year's flagship, not some new gimped piece of equipment.

    These were all BAD design decisions that absolutely had nothing to do with the amount of money on hand.
    thanks for your opinion.
    I dis agree with you if you think more $$$ would not deliver a more polished device, and would deliver it much sooner after anouncement .... then the months it took to launch pre. They were strugling to launch.. and hy strugled to compete.. due to heir scale compared to Apple and Google imo
  17.    #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    Yeah, you're an evangelist and evangelists make me laugh. If I really truly cared I'd go back and point out that glaring, obvious factoid.

    1 billion is pocket change for HP. You're reading way too much into the interview. CTO's, CEO's, CFO's, etc...will say anything they feel is necessary to make their company look good to investors.

    You're continuing to fool yourself if you believe HP cares one whit about the minority power user/tinkerer/homebrew folks. It would be nice if they did because of the great work the homebrew folks do but HP is a monster corporation and you seem to have forgotten that salient point. Where is the incentive to cater to the 2% of the user base that wants dozens of different features when the other 98% are satisfied?

    I bought a near launch day Pre. It worked ok for a few weeks then the problems began. Was it the best at the time? Perhaps. But, at the time it suited my needs but always left me feeling like I was missing some key components that should have been there from the start.

    My original post stands.
    Well.. im glad i made you laugh. as far as name calling goes... i have a few of them for you... but i wont go there.

    your quotes:
    "the phone wasn't great, it was fair at best. A nice O/S with tons of potential doesn't make it anymore."
    "Was it the best at the time? Perhaps".
    you admit, after all of the negativity towards palm pre, that at launch it was possibly the best smartphone available. was it smacked to the sidelines after?... really, what is your point?
    once again, you obviously didn't watch the video. If you did, you would have answered all of your own questions. CTO explains how big mobile computing has become, and how HP needs a lay in that market. He explains how big of a space that mobile computing occupies... and how they want to be a BIG player in it.
    "Palm will become the seat of innovation for global mobile platforms. Our intent is to leave Palm as is. [...] Don't mangle up Palm kind of philsophy." Palm will be an "autonomous unit" within HP but able to take advantage of the resources at HP. CTO
    your post stands... as an example to evryone of what not to do. Call names, no research... even when you are pointed to the research. take some time and read the recent statements made by HP CTO Phil Mckinney and CTO of HP gaming Rahul Sood. Your argument is dated.
    http://www.precentral.net/rahul-sood...ed-about-webos

    I am a big fan of webOS... call me what you will.
  18. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    thanks for your opinion.
    I dis agree with you if you think more $$$ would not deliver a more polished device, and would deliver it much sooner after anouncement .... then the months it took to launch pre. They were strugling to launch.. and hy strugled to compete.. due to heir scale compared to Apple and Google imo
    Sorry, but no. The delay was in getting WebOS up to some sort of releasable form, which is why they could SHOW the finished hardware form to people in January, but not allow anyone to actually operate the software in its atrocious Alpha state. Money would have made little difference there as all it could do is hire more developers. Considering the development decisions they've made since then (e.g. Ares, PDK), I doubt that would've changed things much.

    There are still placeholder menus in several apps, which is a really unprofessional sign of lack of attention to detail.
  19.    #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Sorry, but no. The delay was in getting WebOS up to some sort of releasable form, which is why they could SHOW the finished hardware form to people in January, but not allow anyone to actually operate the software in its atrocious Alpha state. Money would have made little difference there as all it could do is hire more developers. Considering the development decisions they've made since then (e.g. Ares, PDK), I doubt that would've changed things much.

    There are still placeholder menus in several apps, which is a really unprofessional sign of lack of attention to detail.
    Yeah .. building a new mobile oS from scratch... in a fledgling company... sure $$$ would not of helped that at all. $$$ would not have attrated more experience, better process etc.
    What was i thinking? I guess the argument you are making is that they had enough scale , resources, = $$$ to compete with Apple and Google.
    Thanks for your opinion. Lets agree to disagree.
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