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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    LCGuy,

    I think I gave a very good analogy of Palm's patents value to Apple.

    I don't know you from Adam, but I am going to assume that if you lived in the suburbs in a nice house, good schools, etc. Would you go out and buy a house in the hood that is crime ridden and a huge drug problem? No, you wouldn't because you are not poor and can afford to live where you currently do.

    I look at Apple's performance in the cell phone market which is spectacular and I look at Palm's performance in the cell phone market which is horrible. I come to the conclusion that Palm's patents are not valuable to Apple. Just like a crack house in the hood would not be of value to you.

    A patent is only valuable if it is something that you don't want a competitor to copy because you ONLY want consumers to buy the product from you. That is not the case with Palm. Very, very, very few people are buying Palm products with those 1,500 patents that Palm owns. So, if they are not helping Palm to sell a lot of phones, how are they going to be valuable to Apple when Apple sells a TON of cell phones without Palm's patents?

    I don't know how much simpler it needs to be said about the value of Palm's patents to Apple.
    SoFly;

    My last post on this subject. Thanks for being civil.. much appreciated!

    1. I know you THINK you gave a good analogy - that' sthe first time you said you THINK it was good. I think it was poor, but, I could be wrong.. we shall see.

    2. You are right, you don't know me at all, so please, don't presume what I would or wouldn't do. You are trying to use market success as a proving ground - fair enough, but, remember, snapshots, even long ones, arent the whole story. Remember a little company called Enron? The darlilng of Wall Street for so many years, until thier very last? (no, Im not calling Apple Enron, just pointing out that "market" success is a moving target, and NOT a proving ground for anyhting other than market success at that moment)

    3. See above.

    4. Patent value is determined by its use, or percieved potential use; I could tell you real life stories of how many so called "dormant" patents have surface after existing for many years to provide market value of extrordinary proportions - I just don't have the time. Suffice to say, just remember, what you see isn't all of what you get, and that's true, especially in the IP world.

    5. It isn't simple, and its not evident, IMO, and that's where I think you have lost comprehension of what is going on here, and what could have happened. Hindsight is 20/20, they say, (and that's the rationale you are using), however, its truly understanding what you are looking at, with all of the facts, that you don't have (and I don't either, but, I am trying, on both sides, objectively), and that's just making conjecture without acknowledging that there is likely much more that you do not know - and this is a mistake, IMO.

    Have a great day!
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. #82  
    Apple doesn't have to worry/fear Palm/HP. Apple followers are like Lemmings...

    Mr. Jobs has an app on his phone, he just selects an Apple follower, then clicks on what product he would like them to buy and they do. I just hope for their sake, he doesn't hit the explode button by mistake.

    Ref: Lemmings
  3.    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Ha! You make yourself look like a fool. Do you seriously think that Palm was the first manufacturer to ever patent the capability to have video conferencing on a phone? AT&T actually had a phone on the market that you could actually buy that had video conferencing on it. Came out well before 2002. There were other phones in Japan that have been out over the years that had video conferencing capability that came out well before 2002. GO RESEARCH AND LOOK IT UP!

    So, by your logic, AT&T and the other phone manufacturers should have went after Palm way back in 2002 for trying to patent something that has already been accomplished. More importantly if that patent was so valuable, why didn't the Palm Pre come out with that technology in 2009, a whole 7 years after they patented it? There have been hundreds of phones in Japan and Europe that do what Apple's FaceTime does.

    Yeah, HP getting paid by Apple. You are so stupid. I feel sorry for you. You obviously don't have a clue how patents work.
    One of the main reasons I post on these threads it to get more information from others. If palm did not "patent" front facing camera ( i could care less who did it previously, in japan or anywhwere else, with out patent) Then I am wrong for posting that information...But does that make someone stupid? NO, I did not do enough research on Patents before posting. I apologize for that.
    BTW... sounds like you did research it. I will share that information.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videophone

    Bottom line... WEBOS is an operating system that can not only hang with IOS, but has the potential to date it. HP will soon Own WEBOS... I will disagree with you or anyone else in these forums that think that will not be a game changer. Will it be an "iphone Killer" who cares.. It will be a solid option vs ios . Should Apple be concerned, Yes.
    Yes, the HP deaal will need to be finalized first.... without HP... WEBOS would have been licensed out most likely... and never stood a chance against the GOOGLE machine.

    SoFly... Your user name speaks volumes about your ego and attitude in life... its all in your head...Mr. Im SO FLY ... really? I would love to have you describe to us what makes you so fly... That is way off topic.. but would be very entertaining to read.. im sure. ( i could not help myself)
    Last edited by clutch1222; 06/25/2010 at 09:57 AM.
  4.    #84  
    @ lc Guy..

    I need to take the example of mr. SO FLY's posting tone... and your tone... and eliminate as much so fly in my posts... and use more of yours. Thanks for being a class example to emulate. Live and learn
  5. #85  
    Clutch1222, I apologize if you feel offended. But, you open yourself up to being criticized with some of the posts you make. You didn't come here in this thread to get info, you were giving out incorrect info like saying things such as "HP is going to make Apple pay" or the the comment about shamwow and the iPhone.

    I did a simple Google search and found many examples of where Palm was not the first to put a video camera on a communications device. Why didn't you do that instead of assuming Palm was first because you read it from some article?
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    Apple doesn't have to worry/fear Palm/HP. Apple followers are like Lemmings...

    Mr. Jobs has an app on his phone, he just selects an Apple follower, then clicks on what product he would like them to buy and they do. I just hope for their sake, he doesn't hit the explode button by mistake.

    Ref: Lemmings
    You're just upset that it's not the Palm Pre that gets all the attention from consumers.

    Let me ask you something, if the Palm Pre and iPhone swapped positions in the market place, would you be calling all the Palm Pre owners lemmings? Something tells me wouldn't. You would be saying positive things to justify why so many people bought the Palm Pre. Just like the people that say positive things about why they buy the iPhone.

    Only the haters from the platform that is not getting any love use terms like "lemmings".

    Have a nice day.

    Clutch1222, was this post more civil for you?
  7.    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    You're just upset that it's not the Palm Pre that gets all the attention from consumers.

    Let me ask you something, if the Palm Pre and iPhone swapped positions in the market place, would you be calling all the Palm Pre owners lemmings? Something tells me wouldn't. You would be saying positive things to justify why so many people bought the Palm Pre. Just like the people that say positive things about why they buy the iPhone.

    Only the haters from the platform that is not getting any love use terms like "lemmings".

    Have a nice day.

    Clutch1222, was this post more civil for you?
    that's was more civil.. We all lose it sometimes... A reminder to check it is always welcome by me.

    sofly... Here is where I think you miss the point when it comes down to diff between iphone and webos users... I think you are blind to the fact that many sites are heavily iphone biased... Al over the internet. Iphone users can be very much elitist and have a condescending attitude to other smartphone users... And have been for years. Just look at them on this site that is a site about the pre and all that is palm and webos... Tons of examples of arrogance and pompous attitudees from iphone users. This is the one site on the net that webos users won't take their #-...and will argue back. For you to be on this site posting away aboit how superior iphone is compared to webos... Is a perfect example of the arrogance of iphone users.
    I can't speak for anyone else here...so I will speak for myself. I see the potential in webos... And love using it. One of the reasons I defend it / suport is to do my part to raise awarness for it ... In a market that is dominated by apple and google marketing machines. I don't need it to be more popular than them... I need it to survive and thrive. If more comes of it...great.
    I always root for the under dog... Especially when they have amazing potential and they are up against controlling giants like appl.
    so... In my case, you are totally missing why I am a huge supporter of webos. And you, in my opinion... Are an arrogant individual to be praising apple dominance and superiority... On this site.I welcome it because I learn from it and it allows me to debate why I think webos is the better choice... And why I believe in it's future with HP.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Clutch1222, I apologize if you feel offended. But, you open yourself up to being criticized with some of the posts you make. You didn't come here in this thread to get info, you were giving out incorrect info like saying things such as "HP is going to make Apple pay" or the the comment about shamwow and the iPhone.

    I did a simple Google search and found many examples of where Palm was not the first to put a video camera on a communications device. Why didn't you do that instead of assuming Palm was first because you read it from some article?
    I just read this... I found multiple articles on palm patents... I read palm patented first smartphone with a FF camera with video. I did not do a separate search on history of video conferencing.
    I felt palm did not release with pre maybe b/c the bandwidth was not there yet...and possible reistance from carriers at time of pre launch. 4g is out now. And sprint is all over it.
    I get worked up from reading arrogant oosts and fall into it myself. I appreciate you apology and offer one to all here as well.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    You're just upset that it's not the Palm Pre that gets all the attention from consumers.

    Let me ask you something, if the Palm Pre and iPhone swapped positions in the market place, would you be calling all the Palm Pre owners lemmings? Something tells me wouldn't. You would be saying positive things to justify why so many people bought the Palm Pre. Just like the people that say positive things about why they buy the iPhone.

    Only the haters from the platform that is not getting any love use terms like "lemmings".

    Have a nice day.

    Clutch1222, was this post more civil for you?
    If the Palm Pre was in iPhones position AND Palm adopted similar practices as Apple does now, then yes, I would call Pre users Lemmings. and probably be using a Droid right now.

    Jailbreaking voids warranty vs. Palm's support of homebrew...
    iOS jailbreaking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You have to use their tools now and allegedly not port to or from iPhone...
    Why Apple's anti-trust woes are nothing to worry about | Electronista

    Their issues with Adobe...
    Apple vs. Adobe

    And an older article on a developer that is frustrated with Apple/ATT...
    Fed Up, A Popular Mac Developer Quits The iPhone

    I still have yet to see a need for the iPad or ANY device that is similar (webOS/droid "pads"). Why would I pay that much for a device with such limited functionality compared to a less expensive notebook with a full blown OS (Windows, Linux or yes even OSX).
  10. #90  
    Clutch1222, I am very well aware that the iPhone or Apple products are not for everyone. Apple users are not elitist. They just want a product that is very well polished, designed well, and everything just works well together.

    EX: It's like a man that would never buy a suit off the rack at Macy's. He wants his suit tailored to his body with the materials that he wants. That doesn't make him an elitist because he wants to spend more money for a suit that is tailored for him and him only.

    Same with Apple, their products are designed to not get in the way of the user which is to just work and not bother the user with things they don't care about. Perfect example: Most people want cars with an automatic transmission. Nobody wants to be bothered shifting a manual transmission. Doesn't make the majority of people elitist because they don't want to shift gears. Just like it doesn't make people that want Apple products elitist because they want their stuff to just work in the simplest manner possible.

    About iPhone users on this site. If you didn't talk about Apple or the iPhone on this site, I would never have a reason to post on here. If you go back and look at most of my posts they are in response to some INCORRECT about Apple or the iPhone and I call people out on it and usually provide a web link about what I posted. Perfect example of that is the huge misinformation about Microsoft bailing out Apple with the $150 million. It wasn't to bail Apple out, it was to settle the lawsuit between the two companies.

    But, if you go back to those posts you will see people that kept on talking about about it even after I provided more than one link that explained it. It's just ignorant to be on the internet and NOT use the internet to get the correct info.

    Or, people that call anyone that buys an iPhone sheeple, or other silly nonsense. But, if a lot of people were to buy the Palm Pre in your eyes on this forum that's a smart decision.

    About the Palm Pre. In it's current state including both hardware and it's OS. For the MAJORITY of consumers it's not in the same league as the iPhone when it comes to the TOTAL package that the iPhone offers. You can't keep talking about true multi-tasking and IGNORE all the other problems that the Palm Pre has. If HP redoes the Palm Pre and release a product with quality hardware, an upgraded more stable OS, and get's more developers onboard to develop for it. Then I will take that into consideration. But, to set here and deny that the Palm Pre has some major problems is just sticking your head in the sand.

    It's very simple. Post factual and correct info and I don't have a reason to post. Other than I come here and to a lot of various forums to read about other tech products and learn something if the info is correct.

    As for my name, SoFly. It's a based upon aviation. Nothing about my personality.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    I still have yet to see a need for the iPad or ANY device that is similar (webOS/droid "pads"). Why would I pay that much for a device with such limited functionality compared to a less expensive notebook with a full blown OS (Windows, Linux or yes even OSX).
    Apple doesn't sell a notebook computer less expensive than the iPad. The iPad is much faster to use than cheap windows notebooks.
  12. #92  
    Unlike a lot of laptop manufacturers, Apple didn't have any product slotted in between the $200+ iPhone and the $800+ laptop.

    While I will be the first to agree this does not replace a laptop or even a netbook (if you need that level of computer in a mid-range product) it DOES meet that price point, with a set of features, that Apple doesn't currently serve.

    For them, it was an excellent positioning. But maybe not so much for a laptop manufacturer with similar (but fuller spec'd) products already in that price range.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Apple doesn't sell a notebook computer less expensive than the iPad. The iPad is much faster to use than cheap windows notebooks.
    I still don't see the point.

    OK, iPads with wifi run from $499 to $699.
    iPads with wifi and 3G run from $629 to $829.

    Here is the notebook I have which can be bought for $612...

    ASUS G50V
    Just a few nice specs:
    Intel Core 2 Duo P7450 2.13 GHz processor
    4 GB DDR2 SDRAM
    Integrated NVIDIA GeForce 9800M GS w/512 MB GDDR3 VRAM
    DVD±RW DL drive w/LightScribe
    Integrated 802.11g Wireless LAN
    320 GB hard drive

    Why on earth would I want a product that is half way between that and my Pre? Look again at the price difference of the iPad to that notebook that runs WoW as well as many desktop PCs.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    If the Palm Pre was in iPhones position AND Palm adopted similar practices as Apple does now, then yes, I would call Pre users Lemmings. and probably be using a Droid right now.

    Jailbreaking voids warranty vs. Palm's support of homebrew...
    iOS jailbreaking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You have to use their tools now and allegedly not port to or from iPhone...
    Why Apple's anti-trust woes are nothing to worry about | Electronista

    Their issues with Adobe...
    Apple vs. Adobe

    And an older article on a developer that is frustrated with Apple/ATT...
    Fed Up, A Popular Mac Developer Quits The iPhone

    I still have yet to see a need for the iPad or ANY device that is similar (webOS/droid "pads"). Why would I pay that much for a device with such limited functionality compared to a less expensive notebook with a full blown OS (Windows, Linux or yes even OSX).
    Yep, all so that Apple can continue to provide that seamless user experience that just works. If that is too much control for you, then buy another product. But, to call someone a lemming because they want that, is just you being...(I almost forgot, I'm suppose to be nice).

    About the iPad. I don't understand why so many single people buy over-sized SUVS that get horrible gas mileage, hard to drive versus a car, take up more space on the road, not good for the environment, costs more than a car, etc. But, people continue to buy them.

    The iPad is perfect for consuming media and casually browsing the internet. It works perfect for that.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    Apple doesn't sell a notebook computer less expensive than the iPad. The iPad is much faster to use than cheap windows notebooks.
    Huh....I shopped around and found an HP Mini with a true HD widescreen, ten times the RAM of the iPAD, and with an overclockable CPU and GPU that is also capable of dual booting Snow Leopard, Ubuntu Netbook Edition, and other OSes for half the price of the lowest end iPad.

    Is it faster than an iPad? Dunno. I've never tried a single-tasking mobile OS capped at a lesser resolution on it. Have no desire to either.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Huh....I shopped around and found an HP Mini with a true HD widescreen, ten times the RAM of the iPAD, and with an overclockable CPU and GPU that is also capable of dual booting Snow Leopard, Ubuntu Netbook Edition, and other OSes for half the price of the lowest end iPad.
    If you run Snow Leopard on your HP you might not want to advertise the fact. Apple won't be happy that you are stealing their software.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    I still don't see the point.

    OK, iPads with wifi run from $499 to $699.
    iPads with wifi and 3G run from $629 to $829.

    Here is the notebook I have which can be bought for $612...

    ASUS G50V
    Just a few nice specs:
    Intel Core 2 Duo P7450 2.13 GHz processor
    4 GB DDR2 SDRAM
    Integrated NVIDIA GeForce 9800M GS w/512 MB GDDR3 VRAM
    DVD±RW DL drive w/LightScribe
    Integrated 802.11g Wireless LAN
    320 GB hard drive

    Why on earth would I want a product that is half way between that and my Pre? Look again at the price difference of the iPad to that notebook that runs WoW as well as many desktop PCs.
    Your notebook must be fairly large and heavy if it has a DVD drive built in. Build quality is probably fairly poor and I doubt the screen looks nearly as good as the iPad's (and it doesn't support multi-touch). The 802.11g wi-fi is pretty poor for 2010, even my netbook has N (as does the iPad of course).
    It also has a hard drive instead of flash memory.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    LOL @ you. yes sold.. to the largest tech corp in the world.
    Apple just past Microsoft as the largest tech company in the world.
    Apple Passes Microsoft as World’s Largest Tech Company | Epicenter*| Wired.com
    Apple overtakes Microsoft as biggest tech company | Reuters

    And last i checked Samsung is bigger the HP as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Yes...If I was a company.. I would be very concerned about sales. But , im a consumer... So i dont care
    so then you admit you're wrong. it's just you don't care. you're one person. Most do because good sales mean money to develop the platform. That you don't get that illustrates just how naive you are.



    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Palms stock dropped from $17 to $3 dollars for several reasons. Palms scale compared to APPLE and Google's is one of them, timing. marketing failures etc. I love how you contribute it solely to the quality of the product.
    That's absolutely wrong. Palm stock fell because Palm sales plummeted, tanking it's profits forecast, and making it's miss it's quarterly estimate.

    "Palm's shares fell nearly 20% Thursday after the company's CEO said 2010 sales would be "well below" its forecasts, citing worse-than-expected sales of its new smartphones." Palm stock tumbles 20% on smartphone outlook - Feb. 25, 2010

    here's another stock drop on bad sales reports "Palm Warns of a Steep Sales Shortfall" "Palm shares fell 19% to $6.55 soon after the stock resumed trading" Palm Warns of a Steep Sales Shortfall - TheStreet

    blame what you want but the value of Palm plummeted in direct relation to reports of lower sales and earnings. That's what stocks do.

    You're grasping at straws and not actually looking at facts. The stock fell directly after Palm Preannounced lower then expected earnings. And directly after the actual crappy sales where announced. These are facts. This isn't bashing. This is what happened. But you're relying on the same excuse. To accuse someone speaking in facts to bashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    GOOGLE is paying manufacturers to put android on their phones... so its growing in popularity.. but does that make it better than WEBOS.. No.
    Better is subjective. But yes it does cause they are selling. a lot of phones. It's a better run business then Palm. hell google's a better run business then HP. But your opinion of what's "better" is subjective and it's one person. Most people don't agree with you or they'd have bought a webos phone. It's on every platform now. You can keep thinking the best phone isn't the one that's selling but the customer is right and most customers aren't buying webos phones. i'm sure palm is developing a new phone but it's success will be determined by if it sells well. not by having a few thousand people saying "but but it's better."

    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Keep on bashing palm and webos .... you elitist ifans ...you keep trolling
    You have no arguments based on anything but conjecture, and "bu..bu...but...webos is better", so you fall back on being rude and name calling. you can't have an intelligent discussion of facts so this is what you rely on. I've given you a litany of reasons why sales matter and matter most people even if not you and you're response is "elitist" and "troll". Hate to tell you, real analysis is not bashing. You're an unreasoning Palm person. You're no different then the people that like apple that you so hate. You're EXACTLY THE SAME. You've just picked a different product. Oh and I'm here because i own a Pre. And this is an open forum. It's part of the Smart phone network and this is part of it. I can post where ever they let me.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Yep, all so that Apple can continue to provide that seamless user experience that just works. If that is too much control for you, then buy another product. But, to call someone a lemming because they want that, is just you being...(I almost forgot, I'm suppose to be nice).

    About the iPad. I don't understand why so many single people buy over-sized SUVS that get horrible gas mileage, hard to drive versus a car, take up more space on the road, not good for the environment, costs more than a car, etc. But, people continue to buy them.

    The iPad is perfect for consuming media and casually browsing the internet. It works perfect for that.
    And, BTW, that G50 notebook I mentioned above dual boots out of the box. I've never used it but once cause I hit the button by mistake, but when it's off, you can hit a button which boots up a light version of Linux for games and internet stuff and even lowers the CPU speed so the battery lasts longer. It's like having an SUV that transforms into a one of those "smart" cars when needed.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    If you run Snow Leopard on your HP you might not want to advertise the fact. Apple won't be happy that you are stealing their software.
    Uh, you have to buy a retail Snow Leopard disc to complete the Hackintosh-ing. I guess there's some convoluted way to make a fake .ISO but I wouldn't bother.

    I think I'm going to try Jolicloud linux, tho. Awesome UI and dualbooting with it is as easy as pie.

    Very odd complaints you have against the notebook Sinime posted, tho. You don't think a 15.4-inch widescreen capable of WAY greater resolution/pixels than the iPad looks "nearly as good"? Buddy, it's better. Way better. So is the 11.6-inch 1366×768 one on my HP Mini. You assume the build quality is poor? Asus, one of the more well-regarded and well-awarded manufacturers out there?

    I mean, even if these were somehow tradeoffs, look at all of the money, features, and software you give up to get an iPad. It's not even close.
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