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  1. #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I think they will absolutely go after the consumer phone market. I have many reasons, but the biggest one is that all business people are also consumers. People get an iPhone for Christmas and want to use it at work. That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.

    Not all consumers are business people, but all business people are consumers. Companies that don't realize that are destined to fail in whichever market they decide to go after.

    ...now if Palm would just hire me as a consultant to their marketing department...
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I think they will absolutely go after the consumer phone market. I have many reasons, but the biggest one is that all business people are also consumers. People get an iPhone for Christmas and want to use it at work. That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.

    Not all consumers are business people, but all business people are consumers. Companies that don't realize that are destined to fail in whichever market they decide to go after.

    ...now if Palm would just hire me as a consultant to their marketing department...
    I know you already posted this a while ago but I thought you brought up a good point and I wanted to expand on it some.

    Obviously, none of us here truly know what hp has planned for webos. At this point all we can do is speculate based on a handful of statements made by hp and palm employees since the acqusistion was announced.

    I think until recently, owning a smartphone has been practical almost exclusivly in the business market. RIM was the ringleader in providing a device that would keep you constantly connected, with their advanced email services and such. Apple came around and provided a model on how to sell the average consumer a smartphone with the additional $30 data plan.

    Since then i've noticed a trend of phone providers targeting the consumer market, while offering business features to those who need it.

    This can be exemplified with any smartphone os popular in the US. Look at the iPhone, originally designed with only the consumer in mind. Now that it's become so popular they start adding features like exchange support for the business users. Android is doing the exact same thing and is also very successful with it.

    MS had winmo up until recently, a platform very successful with the business crowd (they did at one point command a very respectable marketshare, that's not commenting on how popular the platform actually was with it's user, however). Now, with their marketshare dwindling, ms realized they needed a new platform, and wp7 happens to be very consumer oriented, with xbl support and emphasis on apps.

    The only company not catering to the consumer is RIM, and we can all see how well that is turning out for them. They have been losing market share now quarter after quarter for awhile now. I'm assuming that the loss is mostly with their non business customers, and it isn't at enough of an alarming rate that they have a chance to turn their ship around, but I don't expect to see RIM stay relevant unless they get an os out soon that will please the average consumer. Yes, they are the best in providing what business users want, but how long is it before someone else offers true competition to that,with the addition of great consumer feature that make the platform productive, as well as a pleasure to use.

    Now how does this all relate to hp/palm and webos. They are in a great position right now to offer the whole package, and take RIM on head to head, as well as apple and android. Those of you that are arguing that hp only has intentions to target the business crowd because the competition in the consumer space is supposedly too cometitive for them are being foolish to overlook the obvious trend favoring the consumer oriented platform. This has been where all the money is at. It is why apple and android are so successful right now, while rim is losing market share and tanking in mindshare. Hp only going after business users would be a good way to quickly kill webos, and waste their 1.2 billion dollar purchase of an already CONSUMER ORIENTED platform.

    The notion that hp is only interested in the business crowd is absurd. WebOS is already a very competitive consumer platform, it has a great browser, a good foundation for an app store, and is easy and pleasant to use. With hp's "scale" I can see them adding in business features to appeal to the business user as well. I wouldn't be surprised if (hopefully tomorrow) we see a new webos phone with improved business and consumer features.

    I could be wrong of course, but if I am, don't be surprised to see hp fail to gain marketshare with webos.
    Last edited by voodoochild; 07/11/2010 at 03:05 PM.
  2. #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Compared to the value of Palm's market value last year, yes it was sold for little money.

    Who else were you talking about?
    I'm still trying to figure out what you were talking about. Palm was sold for 1.2 billion, and you called it "pennies". The fact that their stock had them priced higher doesn't change the fact that it's not "pennies". By that type of logic, they were sold for a large profit, since their value was at one time 1/4 what they shold for.

    You seem to simply twist facts to fit what you want. Palm may have been sold for "pennies", but it 120,000,000,000 of them. Palm may not have sold for as much as they were once worth, but they sold for more than what they were worth when WebOS was announced. That is what I was talking about. WebOS was not a disaster, it saved Palm.
  3. #283  
    I can see the points:

    Elevation Partners were probably hoping for a little more return on their investment.

    A disaster in the respect Palm was not able to survive independently. webOs was a bit of a disaster. It failed in meeting any of its sales objectives. The hardware failed to meet expectations of many. It failed at being a flagship device for Sprint. Verizon and AT&T have to give it away to move them and the suckers on Sprint are still without the Plus versions and new users have to pay to get the originals. If your definition of saved is kept on life support long enough for another company to see the value in the mobileOS and buy it relatively cheap giving the financial backers less than they were hoping to make off the investment (just an assumption), then yes, webOS saved Palm.

    In this case the term saved and success do not go hand in hand.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I can see the points:

    Elevation Partners were probably hoping for a little more return on their investment.

    A disaster in the respect Palm was not able to survive independently. webOs was a bit of a disaster. It failed in meeting any of its sales objectives. The hardware failed to meet expectations of many. It failed at being a flagship device for Sprint. Verizon and AT&T have to give it away to move them and the suckers on Sprint are still without the Plus versions and new users have to pay to get the originals. If your definition of saved is kept on life support long enough for another company to see the value in the mobileOS and buy it relatively cheap giving the financial backers less than they were hoping to make off the investment (just an assumption), then yes, webOS saved Palm.

    In this case the term saved and success do not go hand in hand.
    Inteesting perspective, or should we say spin.

    Yes, EP wanted a bigger profit. However, they got a profit out of it. That's not a disaster.

    Failing to meet expectations is not a disaster, it's a failure to meet expectations.

    If being bought out by another company is a "disaster", then that happened about 10 years ago for Palm.

    WebOS provided that for Palm.

    In addition, the brand is still around, and the product is still being sold and developed.

    Yes, that's a success.

    Yes, if you're a company that's about to go under, staying on "life support" for another two years until you're attractive enough to be bought out instead of going bankrupt is a success.
  5. #285  
    How is not meeting the objectives set forth in the business plan a success? So this was the "goal" all along for Rubenstein and Elevation Partners? I doubt it. I don't think they had a giant champagne celebration, high fiving one another going "take that RIM and Apple and Microsoft". "Yeah, we kicked **** on that deal." "who would've thought our profit would be double that of a 2yr CD at our credit union. Wow, just wow!"

    Unless you've seen the business plan and it showed budget manufacturing, bad marketing, dismal sales and a failure to meet probably all objectives they set forth in order to bring down the value of the company to a point it'd be attractive to one of the largest consumer electronic companies on the planet who would in turn buy us for a bargain and thus save the sinking ship. Woo hoo...success. That's textbook, right? Taught in the first week of every Sales and Marketing class. How to shoot for mediocrity and survive by the skin of your teeth.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #286  
    If I read hparsons correctly, 'ole Ruby should get a bonus for his "success" –*just like the rest of corporate America and their bailouts.
  7. #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Success or failure? It all depends on what your reference point is. Look at what has happened since CES 2009 when webOS was announced. Failure.
    How so?
    At that time, the stock was selling for under $2 a share, considerably less than what it ultimately sold for.
  8. #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    If I read hparsons correctly, 'ole Ruby should get a bonus for his "success" *just like the rest of corporate America and their bailouts.
    What a crock. "just like the rest of corporate America and their bailouts". That's got to be one of the most nonsensical statements I've seen on here. No one "bailed" anyone out. HP bought an entity they believe will make them money. EP sold an entity at a profit.

    Are you being "bailed out" by your employer when you go to work every day?

    So no, you don't "read me correctly". You "read me" through your tainted glasses of someone that seems to have a grudge.
  9. #289  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    How is not meeting the objectives set forth in the business plan a success? So this was the "goal" all along for Rubenstein and Elevation Partners? I doubt it. I don't think they had a giant champagne celebration, high fiving one another going "take that RIM and Apple and Microsoft". "Yeah, we kicked **** on that deal." "who would've thought our profit would be double that of a 2yr CD at our credit union. Wow, just wow!"
    So, anything less that a complete success is a disaster?

    I don't think so.

    That's the nature of investment companies. Sometimes they lose money. Sometimes they make money. They made money.


    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    Unless you've seen the business plan and it showed budget manufacturing, bad marketing, dismal sales and a failure to meet probably all objectives they set forth in order to bring down the value of the company to a point it'd be attractive to one of the largest consumer electronic companies on the planet who would in turn buy us for a bargain and thus save the sinking ship. Woo hoo...success. That's textbook, right? Taught in the first week of every Sales and Marketing class. How to shoot for mediocrity and survive by the skin of your teeth.
    Where do you guys come up with this stuff. A phone didn't meet your expectations, and suddenly your business experts that not only know the inside dealings of what went on with Palm, but you spot nonsensical sarcasm.

    I'll repeat for you. No, they did not meet their goals. That does not constitute "failure". Every company fails to meet goals. When the brand disappears, HP (or whoever owns it at the time) writes it off, then it's a failure.

    The brand is still out there. The product is still selling. That's success.
  10. #290  
    Here's my bottom line on this guys, and probably my last comment about (unless something else is said that strikes my fancy.)

    This is much like politics. Was Palm better off before WebOS? I submit that they were bound for bankruptcy. There were no interested buyers, there were no interesting products, there were no new award-winning OS, and no real prospect for a future for the brand or their producs.

    Now there is.

    Maybe not the resounding success they would have liked, but hardly a disaster. WebOS has served them well.

    More importantly, it's not over yet. HP's has promised more products with both WebOS and the Palm brand.

    Those declaring it a "disaster" are simply engaging in wishful thinking.
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    What a crock. "just like the rest of corporate America and their bailouts". That's got to be one of the most nonsensical statements I've seen on here. No one "bailed" anyone out. HP bought an entity they believe will make them money. EP sold an entity at a profit.

    Are you being "bailed out" by your employer when you go to work every day?

    So no, you don't "read me correctly". You "read me" through your tainted glasses of someone that seems to have a grudge.
    I highly doubt that Jon Rubenstein wanted the acquisition, it was either it or go bankrupt, so in a sense.. yet it's a bailout for Palm they're going to be able to continue to operate as normal (or so we assume) with the backing of HP. It's not as if it was in Palm's grand scheme to be acquired by some monolithic corporation.

    Color it how you want, but without this buyout Palm would be dead. Plain and simple.
  12.    #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I highly doubt that Jon Rubenstein wanted the acquisition, it was either it or go bankrupt, so in a sense.. yet it's a bailout for Palm they're going to be able to continue to operate as normal (or so we assume) with the backing of HP. It's not as if it was in Palm's grand scheme to be acquired by some monolithic corporation.

    Color it how you want, but without this buyout Palm would be dead. Plain and simple.
    hilarious... Do you feel better bow? Does it even matter?
    Palm is as strong as ever now... Under HP. You have no idea what their strategy was... It may very well have been to get webOS out to market... With hopes it would take off...And then be bought out if I didn't. They gave it a shot...ran into issues...and now are stronger and Palm brand intact.
    palm is dead.. Does that make you happy?
    Long live Palm!
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    hilarious... Do you feel better bow? Does it even matter?
    Palm is as strong as ever now... Under HP. You have no idea what their strategy was... It may very well have been to get webOS out to market... With hopes it would take off...And then be bought out if I didn't. They gave it a shot...ran into issues...and now are stronger and Palm brand intact.
    palm is dead.. Does that make you happy?
    Long live Palm!
    Happy? No. Why? Because WebOS isn't what I want it to be, and I'm afraid it never will be. At what point will it be? When it becomes a lucrative platform for developers and corporations.
  14.    #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Happy? No. Why? Because WebOS isn't what I want it to be, and I'm afraid it never will be. At what point will it be? When it becomes a lucrative platform for developers and corporations.
    you just can't please some people... And every ome knows this. You argue that palm failed... Eventhough they are still working on releasing a new web"- phone/s.
    you complain because webOS isn't what you think it would be... And make that comment without even giving palm the chance to release the next phone. It could very well be everything you want it to be at next release.... But you just want to rain on the parade.... Downer .
    the point is webOS is.... And we shall see what it becomes with hp resources.
  15. #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I highly doubt that Jon Rubenstein wanted the acquisition, it was either it or go bankrupt, so in a sense.. yet it's a bailout for Palm – they're going to be able to continue to operate as normal (or so we assume) with the backing of HP. It's not as if it was in Palm's grand scheme to be acquired by some monolithic corporation.

    Color it how you want, but without this buyout Palm would be dead. Plain and simple.
    Sorry guy, that's simply not true. It's not a "bailout" in any sense of the term. HP didn't acquire Palm to help them out. They acquired them because they saw something of value.

    I suspect Palm likely would be dead, but neither you nor I know that. EP may have looked at the situation and decided they'd had enough, and simply lose the millions they had invested. Or they may have looked it over, and decided that another infusion of money was what was needed. I don't know, and neither do you.

    However, what we do know is that HP saw value in Palm. So did several other companies. That wasn't a bailout, it was an acquisition.

    I know that's bad news to the Palm haters out there, but it is reality. And I'll repeat it again, nothing there indicates that WebOS was a "disaster", which was the point of this all along.
  16. #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Happy? No. Why? Because WebOS isn't what I want it to be, and I'm afraid it never will be. At what point will it be? When it becomes a lucrative platform for developers and corporations.
    Why is that a prerequisite for you? I don't need it to be "lucrative", all I need is for it to work.

    Maybe you should have ponied up some "pennies", and made it what it should have been...
  17. #297  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Why is that a prerequisite for you? I don't need it to be "lucrative", all I need is for it to work.

    Maybe you should have ponied up some "pennies", and made it what it should have been...
    I did, I invested $10,000 in Palm right before the Pre was announced. That went well.
  18.    #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I did, I invested $10,000 in Palm right before the Pre was announced. That went well.
    well... At least we now now where the bitterness comes from.
    investing in the stock market is risky...and should only be left to professionals.
    I also invested in palm stock... $5k when an analyst claimed it was worth $0 a share. It dropped and I picked it up @$ 3.60. Sold it @ $5.25... Then picked it back up @ $4.25. Sold it again @ $5.80.
    I am not a profesional stock trader... But I know a good deal when I see one. I made a nice profit off of palm... So what was your point again?
  19. #299  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I suspect Palm likely would be dead, but neither you nor I know that. EP may have looked at the situation and decided they'd had enough, and simply lose the millions they had invested. Or they may have looked it over, and decided that another infusion of money was what was needed. I don't know, and neither do you.
    It seems obvious to me that EP didn't think there was any possibility that Palm was going to turn things around on it's own and had no problem with the sale of the corporation. Most certainly they were key to the price negotiations because that's what they do as a business. Now EP has all the money its going to get out of Palm and has moved on to its next adventure.
  20. #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    It seems obvious to me that EP didn't think there was any possibility that Palm was going to turn things around on it's own and had no problem with the sale of the corporation. Most certainly they were key to the price negotiations because that's what they do as a business. Now EP has all the money its going to get out of Palm and has moved on to its next adventure.
    Really? What do you base that one? Please note you used the term "any possibility".

    It may seem "obvious" to you, but I suspect that's because you want it to be obvious.

    My suspicion is that if EP had not been offered something that was a profit, they would have continued investing, because that's what they do as a company.

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