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  1. #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I will still be very surprised if HP makes a play in the consumer market.
    Right, HP has never made a dime in the consumer market... other than digital cameras, printers, laptops, PCs, LCD displays.... or was I confused thinking that consumers are the primary target market for Best Buy and Fry's...
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  2. #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    Ok, you didn't make any distinction of which line of hardware you were referring to.

    Right, but you ARE an evangelist and the only difference between you and clutch is you argue with something other than feeling...more veiled angst in your words than he has though. And it is entirely relevant to this discussion since you and clutch can't seem to find fault with anything Palm does.

    Yeah, I stopped debating it with him. You stuck your nose in the discussion so I am batting it around with you.

    Please, pay attention.
    "Proliant" should have been a clue that I was referring to intel lines.

    You are not "debating", you are engaging in ad-hominem attacks. That's not really a debate. BTW, you continued the ad-hominem with him even after you said you were not. My observation still stands.

    Finally, it's an open forum. If you don't want someone "sticking their noses" in it, take it to PM.
  3.    #243  
    There is one thing that seems to be getting clearer by the week... webOS enthusiast are the most hardcore of any smartphone following.
    Pre Plus Takes Top Smartphone Honors from Laptop Mag
    That really doesnt sit well with some of the haters.... i guess i can not blame them.
    This shows the difference between the communities... webOS users trully believe that its the best. They are not sold on the $$$$ of droid marketing, Apple chic. They have tested other phones.. and believe that a webOS phone is the best. Many switchers are missing webOS, and going as far as to say they wish they could have t on their EVO etc.
    Many are also stating that they miss the webOS community / homebrew.
    there is a lot to be said for this... some are choosing to ignore it. to each his own.
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Right, HP has never made a dime in the consumer market... other than digital cameras, printers, laptops, PCs, LCD displays.... or was I confused thinking that consumers are the primary target market for Best Buy and Fry's...
    I meant in the consumer smart phone market.

    I thought that was clear but I see that it was ambiguous.
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I meant in the consumer smart phone market.

    I thought that was clear but I see that it was ambiguous.
    I think they will absolutely go after the consumer phone market. I have many reasons, but the biggest one is that all business people are also consumers. People get an iPhone for Christmas and want to use it at work. That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.

    Not all consumers are business people, but all business people are consumers. Companies that don't realize that are destined to fail in whichever market they decide to go after.

    ...now if Palm would just hire me as a consultant to their marketing department...
  6. #246  
    There is some really good debate in this thread. Let's just remember to keep the discussion focused on the topic, and not on the people debating the topic.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 07/09/2010 at 08:38 PM.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I think they will absolutely go after the consumer phone market. I have many reasons, but the biggest one is that all business people are also consumers. People get an iPhone for Christmas and want to use it at work. That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.

    Not all consumers are business people, but all business people are consumers. Companies that don't realize that are destined to fail in whichever market they decide to go after.

    ...now if Palm would just hire me as a consultant to their marketing department...
    I have many reasons, but the biggest one is that all business people are also consumers. People get an iPhone for Christmas and want to use it at work.
    You have both those statements reversed and they are not the same. Just because a person is FORCED to use a WebOS device at work by some IT manager when they don't like using it, does not mean that same person is going to spend their money to buy something they don't like using at work.

    Now, if a person purchases or receives an iPhone and wants to use it at work, that means they must really love the iPhone.

    That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.
    That statement is a crock of crap. Are you telling me that no one that works in a business of any kind has never considered Macs, iPhone, or iPad for use from a business perspective without having used one personally?

    Sure, in large corporations there are policies in place on what IT equipment to use and executives can override that. BUT, you are missing the millions upon millions of small business that outnumber large corporations that get to run their businesses however they want. They can easily pick Macs, iPhones, or iPads for their business based upon how they think it would fit in their business without owning one personally. Just as easily as they can pick a new brand of a copier machine without personally using one.

    Not all consumers are business people, but all business people are consumers. Companies that don't realize that are destined to fail in whichever market they decide to go after.
    What kind of statement is that? There are tons of businesses that don't sell to consumers and ONLY to other business people for their businesses.

    ...now if Palm would just hire me as a consultant to their marketing department...
    Based upon what you just posted? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
  8.    #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Sure, in large corporations there are policies in place on what IT equipment to use and executives can override that. BUT, you are missing the millions upon millions of small business that outnumber large corporations that get to run their businesses however they want. They can easily pick Macs, iPhones, or iPads for their business based upon how they think it would fit in their business without owning one personally. Just as easily as they can pick a new brand of a copier machine without personally using one.
    !
    they can easily pick anything they want. But, especially in tough times like these with huge unemployment etc.. do you think companies of any decent size are going to buy luxury mac and iphones over workhorse dell, hp etc pc's and cheap blackberries at a fraction of the price? Man.. you have gone out of your way to defend apple on this site, but after this quote, you seriously need a reality check.
    Have you priced Mac desktops vs business Pc's lately? now sit in a board roam and justify to any company that just spent over a year downsizing and cutting costs... to purchase mac's for all of their employee's . good luck.
    Apple products are luxury items. very small biz or niche biz buy them. Apple has done just fine with out the enterprise market being a big purchaser... to say that that will change is not based on their current product line, and not a reality.
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    they can easily pick anything they want. But, especially in tough times like these with huge unemployment etc.. do you think companies of any decent size are going to buy luxury mac and iphones over workhorse dell, hp etc pc's and cheap blackberries at a fraction of the price? Man.. you have gone out of your way to defend apple on this site, but after this quote, you seriously need a reality check.
    Have you priced Mac desktops vs business Pc's lately? now sit in a board roam and justify to any company that just spent over a year downsizing and cutting costs... to purchase mac's for all of their employee's . good luck.
    Apple products are luxury items. very small biz or niche biz buy them. Apple has done just fine with out the enterprise market being a big purchaser... to say that that will change is not based on their current product line, and not a reality.
    Anywhere in my post did you see me say large enterprises corporations were buying Macs? Macs are used way more in small businesses. Especially in places with only a few employees because they don't want to hire an IT person to keep them running. Macs are a lot easier to use and operate. So, YES, a small business would spend less money by buying Macs and NOT cheap PCs, BUT the additional cost of having to hire people to keep them running.

    Oh, and here are two articles about the iPads and iPhones being used in large companies.

    Apple's IPad Wins Corporate Converts at Wells Fargo, SAP - Bloomberg


    Apple (AAPL) iPad Goes Corporate (HPQ, DELL, CSCO, XRX) | InvestorPlace

    What do you do for a living, by the way?
    Last edited by SoFly; 07/10/2010 at 08:14 AM.
  10.    #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    You have both those statements reversed and they are not the same. Just because a person is FORCED to use a WebOS device at work by some IT manager when they don't like using it, does not mean that same person is going to spend their money to buy something they don't like using at work.

    Now, if a person purchases or receives an iPhone and wants to use it at work, that means they must really love the iPhone.



    That statement is a crock of crap. Are you telling me that no one that works in a business of any kind has never considered Macs, iPhone, or iPad for use from a business perspective without having used one personally?

    Sure, in large corporations there are policies in place on what IT equipment to use and executives can override that. BUT, you are missing the millions upon millions of small business that outnumber large corporations that get to run their businesses however they want. They can easily pick Macs, iPhones, or iPads for their business based upon how they think it would fit in their business without owning one personally. Just as easily as they can pick a new brand of a copier machine without personally using one.



    What kind of statement is that? There are tons of businesses that don't sell to consumers and ONLY to other business people for their businesses.



    Based upon what you just posted? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Anywhere in my post did you see me say large enterprises corporations were buying Macs? Macs are used way more in small businesses. Especially in places with only a few employees because they don't want to hire an IT person to keep them running. Macs are a lot easier to use and operate. So, YES, a small business would spend less money by buying Macs and NOT cheap PCs, BUT the additional cost of having to hire people to keep them running.

    Oh, and here are two articles about the iPads and iPhones being used in large companies.

    Apple's IPad Wins Corporate Converts at Wells Fargo, SAP - Bloomberg


    Apple (AAPL) iPad Goes Corporate (HPQ, DELL, CSCO, XRX) | InvestorPlace

    What do you do for a living, by the way?
    who said anything about cheap pc's? I said workhorse PC's and cheap BB's.
    The theory that buying mac will save you on IT because it runs better... is debatable. Its expensive to buy, and when it has issue's , it is expensive to support, imo.

    Thanks for posting the links. Im sure HP is salivating over corporations finding ways to use an ipad. One thing apple is great at... is paving the way for technology. In this case, HP with their massive corporate accounts/ scale, can manufacture, bundle, support webOS tablets to the worlds corporations. This is another argument for why Apple should be concerned with HP. Do you think a competitively priced webOS tablet head to head ... is not a threat to ipad in the enterprise environment?

    I am a rocket scientist... and cant believe you had to ask.
    Last edited by clutch1222; 07/10/2010 at 10:18 AM.
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    who said anything about cheap pc's? I said workhorse PC's and cheap BB's.
    The theory that buying mac will save you on IT because it runs better... is debatable. Its expensive to buy, and when it has issue's , it is expensive to support, imo.

    I am a rocket scientist... and cant believe you had to ask.
    Nice glossing over what I said. A workhorse PC that costs $1200 is stay way CHEAPER than a MacPro.

    There you go again with your IMO. Stop with the IMOs because you OBVIOUSLY don't know what you're talking about.

    Also, see where you didn't state what you did for a living. Probably because you are embarrassed to say.

    I have been working in the IT world since 1995. I started out doing tech support on Windows PCs. I used to work on the side with a smaller company who provided IT services to SMALL businesses that couldn't afford to have full time IT people on staff. I have moved up thru the IT ranks to where I am now more of a network admin, manage the crew that runs our help desk. In addition to that I also am one of three people that makes all the IT purchases for all our company's computing needs. We are an all HP shop with the exception of about 100 MacPro and MacBook Pros that are used.

    From all that experience using PCs and Macs and all the small businesses that I set them up using Macs because the company I worked for told them that it was better for their situation where the objective was for as much hands OFF on the equipment as possible.

    So, I think I know what I am talking about when it comes to what companies of all sizes use in their business.

    So, again, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING?
  12. #252  
    Thanks for posting the links. Im sure HP is salivating over corporations finding ways to use an ipad. One thing apple is great at... is paving the way for technology. In this case, HP with their massive corporate accounts/ scale, can manufacture, bundle, support webOS tablets to the worlds corporations. This is another argument for why Apple should be concerned with HP. Do you think a competitively priced webOS tablet head to head ... is not a threat to ipad in the enterprise environment?
    I didn't know HP had a WebOS tablet. I just checked their website and couldn't find this mythical product. So, it looks to me like you are, AGAIN, running off at the mouth and don't know what you're talking about.
  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    ...
    That's how Apple got in to companies with the Mac, and it's definitely what is behind much of the demand for iPads - as well as iPhones. Companies tried to say no, but executives get what they want.
    That statement is a crock of crap. Are you telling me that no one that works in a business of any kind has never considered Macs, iPhone, or iPad for use from a business perspective without having used one personally?
    Actually, the statement that he made (not the one you inferred), was absolutely correct. You're just not reading correctly.

    No, your inference was incorrect. He was not trying to tell you "that no one that works in a busines of any kind has never considered Macs, iPhone, or iPad for use from a business perspective without having used one personally?" That wasn't even close to what he said.

    Calm down a bit, take off your iPhan glass a bit, relax, and learn a little.

    First, realize he's not talking about all small businesses everywhere. A small business, or a niche business, can use whatever computer they want, as long as it suits their narrow purpose. I know pawn shops that still use Commodor 64 computers because of a single piece of (very cheap) software available for it. He's talking about companies large enough to have an IT department, and with non-IT executives higher up than the IT department.

    When the Mac (which was what he named) was introduced, there were no real networking capabilities (and sorry no, AppleTalk doesn't count, I said real networking capabilities). When executives who liked using them at home wanted to start using them at work, the IT departments nixed it - no networking capabilities. Then when Macs were able to be placed on the network, the IT departments changed to "Can't do it, they're non-standard". Execs said "too bad, we like them, make it work for us".

    Yes, that's a simplified explanation, but it is basically the scenario that was played out (I was there in the IT departments, and watched it happen). BTW, on a slight side note, I'll add that one of the smartest things Apple did in this arena was provide Macs to schools for free or next to free. In the short run, kids used them at school, and convinced parents to buy that as the home computer so they could use the same thing at home as they did in school. In the longer run, some of those kids grew up into decision-making execs, and wanted Macs in the workplace. But I digress.

    The "I like it personally, and want to use it at work" scenario also played out with the iPhone when it was introduced. Initially, there was no way to get corporate mail on the iPhone, People wanted it, solutions were created, then the users forced the IT departments to accept them.

    Consumer based demand forced acceptance at the corporate level. That's the point he was making.
  14.    #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I didn't know HP had a WebOS tablet. I just checked their website and couldn't find this mythical product. So, it looks to me like you are, AGAIN, running off at the mouth and don't know what you're talking about.
    it may not be on their website... yet. But the are already advertising it. Are you questioning HP plans for releasing one? Look at the main topic of post. I am speculating... not running off at the mouth... genius.

    Does anyone question HP ability to advertise on a global scale ? Did you ever think Palm had the marketing $$$ to pull this off? Sex and the city was full of ad placements for apple.... that changed. HP has taken over the as the laptop of choice for the ladies. What i find more interesting.. is the commercial they came up with. It heavily focuses on multitasking... and has a few shots of a tablet flying around. Planting the seed for webOS? Looks that way to me.
    Take a lokk at this video... i think your going to like what HP is up to.

    'Sex and the City' dumps Apple | Technically Incorrect - CNET News

    "Sex and the City" Switches from Apple to HP
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    I didn't know HP had a WebOS tablet. I just checked their website and couldn't find this mythical product. So, it looks to me like you are, AGAIN, running off at the mouth and don't know what you're talking about.
    Yeah, it's been a whole week now, and HP hasn't introduced one. They are so slow with things!!!
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, the statement that he made (not the one you inferred), was absolutely correct. You're just not reading correctly.

    No, your inference was incorrect. He was not trying to tell you "that no one that works in a busines of any kind has never considered Macs, iPhone, or iPad for use from a business perspective without having used one personally?" That wasn't even close to what he said.

    Calm down a bit, take off your iPhan glass a bit, relax, and learn a little.

    First, realize he's not talking about all small businesses everywhere. A small business, or a niche business, can use whatever computer they want, as long as it suits their narrow purpose. I know pawn shops that still use Commodor 64 computers because of a single piece of (very cheap) software available for it. He's talking about companies large enough to have an IT department, and with non-IT executives higher up than the IT department.

    When the Mac (which was what he named) was introduced, there were no real networking capabilities (and sorry no, AppleTalk doesn't count, I said real networking capabilities). When executives who liked using them at home wanted to start using them at work, the IT departments nixed it - no networking capabilities. Then when Macs were able to be placed on the network, the IT departments changed to "Can't do it, they're non-standard". Execs said "too bad, we like them, make it work for us".

    Yes, that's a simplified explanation, but it is basically the scenario that was played out (I was there in the IT departments, and watched it happen). BTW, on a slight side note, I'll add that one of the smartest things Apple did in this arena was provide Macs to schools for free or next to free. In the short run, kids used them at school, and convinced parents to buy that as the home computer so they could use the same thing at home as they did in school. In the longer run, some of those kids grew up into decision-making execs, and wanted Macs in the workplace. But I digress.

    The "I like it personally, and want to use it at work" scenario also played out with the iPhone when it was introduced. Initially, there was no way to get corporate mail on the iPhone, People wanted it, solutions were created, then the users forced the IT departments to accept them.

    Consumer based demand forced acceptance at the corporate level. That's the point he was making.
    Yes, what you posted is grossly oversimplified. And it applied 20+ yrs ago. NOT today. Stop using what happened in the past to show how things operate today because it is not true.

    Just because Macs got into office back then the way you and the other poster said, does not mean the same thing is applied to iPhones and iPads today when a business decides to use them.

    Consumer based demand forced acceptance at the corporate level. That's the point he was making.
    He was trying to point out that since businesses would use WebOS they would automatically want to use a WebOS device for personal use. I pointed out where that is not necessarily true.
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    it may not be on their website... yet. But the are already advertising it. Are you questioning HP plans for releasing one? Look at the main topic of post. I am speculating... not running off at the mouth... genius.

    Does anyone question HP ability to advertise on a global scale ? Did you ever think Palm had the marketing $$$ to pull this off? Sex and the city was full of ad placements for apple.... that changed. HP has taken over the as the laptop of choice for the ladies. What i find more interesting.. is the commercial they came up with. It heavily focuses on multitasking... and has a few shots of a tablet flying around. Planting the seed for webOS? Looks that way to me.
    Take a lokk at this video... i think your going to like what HP is up to.

    'Sex and the City' dumps Apple | Technically Incorrect - CNET News

    "Sex and the City" Switches from Apple to HP
    You totally ignored what I asked you in my post from 11:30 AM. Are you afraid to answer?
  18. #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yeah, it's been a whole week now, and HP hasn't introduced one. They are so slow with things!!!
    They need to be very slow. Or, they can rush it to market like Palm did with the Pre and get the same disastrous results.
  19. #259  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Yes, what you posted is grossly oversimplified. And it applied 20+ yrs ago. NOT today. Stop using what happened in the past to show how things operate today because it is not true.

    Just because Macs got into office back then the way you and the other poster said, does not mean the same thing is applied to iPhones and iPads today when a business decides to use them.

    He was trying to point out that since businesses would use WebOS they would automatically want to use a WebOS device for personal use. I pointed out where that is not necessarily true.
    That's funny. No, you did not "point out where that is not necessarily true", you called it a load of crap. Moving argument again.

    The Mac example (which again, what was what he called by name, and you called crap) was indeed over 20 years ago. The iPhone example though, was not. So yes, the same thing still applies.

    If consumers like technology at home, especially if they are either executives or average employees in large numbers, and want to use it at work, that helps drive the industry at the corporate level.
  20. #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    They need to be very slow. Or, they can rush it to market like Palm did with the Pre and get the same disastrous results.
    Disastrous results? The Pre turned a company around. That's not a disaster!

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