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  1. #201  
    @sofly, history will show that Rubinstein was expressing his BATNA (best alternative to no agreement) as he pushed HP to raise their offer. He had a plan (risky at best) so he could negotiate from strength. He did a great job of negotiating the best deal for investors and for webOS users. Very impressive.
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  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    @sofly, history will show that Rubinstein was expressing his BATNA (best alternative to no agreement) as he pushed HP to raise their offer. He had a plan (risky at best) so he could negotiate from strength. He did a great job of negotiating the best deal for investors and for webOS users. Very impressive.
    Well, thank you Captain Obvious. Gee, who didn't know that?

    My point to Clutch1222 is to not believe everything they say. Look for results. That's the only indication we have of how HP is going to treat the acquisition of Palm.
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    the first line of your post I agree with. The rest is you trying desperately to make a point.
    why do sheep believe steve jobs blindly..donno? When it's obvious that there is a hardware flaw on iphone 4, there is proof they were hiring antenna engineers before launch, and he lies to his consumers and denies there is a problem at all... All the while they are on P|C defending apple... Puzzling.
    comparing that to me believing the enthusiasm /support hp cto / execs are announcing.. Their tweets egging us on to vote for pre plus on laptopmag contest... Mckinneys explanation of why hp wants to be a major player in the mobile space... The fact they made Palm a subsidiary of HP and have stated it will operate independently of HP but be able to access hp lab/ resourses.. Yes all of their motivation for supporting palm I believe.
    you are grasping here to make some kind of point. My main point is apple should be concerned with HP acquiring palm.. For all of the reasons I have mentioned/ links posted in this thread.
    I believe HP until they prove me wrong.. Apple sheep believe Jobs time and time again... veven when he disrespectfully discredits / ignores their concerns.... Amazing
    You obviously know very little about HP and their acquisition tactics. They consume, devour, and change EVERY company they acquire and they're not exclusive to this.

    Remember a company called Digital Equipment Corporation? I do and my company had 4000+ of their DEC Alpha's which I was entrusted with and when Compaq acquired them...then HP they were never the same. They've devolved in many ways. HP wants parity among their myriad product lines and a RISC based, expensive and proprietary hardware platform kills their bottom line. Ditto with HP-UX though they still dabble in them but their main line is the HP Proliant series for high density computing.


    If you think for a second they will leave Palm as is you are really nothing more than a blind evangelist.

    Really, in order to make your point in the future, you might want to avoid using "imo" constantly. Predicating your arguments on "imo" is arguing without facts or hard evidence to back it up.

    As I said before take those words from HP with a chunk of salt. Investors don't look any further than what can the company do THAT quarter.

    No one is grasping at anything here other than you.
  4.    #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Well, thank you Captain Obvious. Gee, who didn't know that?

    My point to Clutch1222 is to not believe everything they say. Look for results. That's the only indication we have of how HP is going to treat the acquisition of Palm.
    I believe them because what they are saying makes perfect sense .
    watch the video and then give me a reason_ based on why he states they want to be a major player in the mobile space, why the would not.
    to make a statement like "dont believe everything you hear" is lame. I'm open to reasons why you think they won't do what he states they will. Your going to have to invest 10 min if you haven't already.
    that's the debate I want... Not lame *** put downs... That you would say to a child.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Well, thank you Captain Obvious. Gee, who didn't know that?

    My point to Clutch1222 is to not believe everything they say. Look for results. That's the only indication we have of how HP is going to treat the acquisition of Palm.
    You accused Ruby of being misleading, so apparently it wasn't obvious to you....
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  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    I believe them because what they are saying makes perfect sense .
    watch the video and then give me a reason_ based on why he states they want to be a major player in the mobile space, why the would not.
    to make a statement like "dont believe everything you hear" is lame. I'm open to reasons why you think they won't do what he states they will. Your going to have to invest 10 min if you haven't already.
    that's the debate I want... Not lame *** put downs... That you would say to a child.

    So, you're avoiding my responses because you can't counter them? Or, you could counter them but they would lack the basics in a proper argument?

    You denounce anyone that tries to reason with you, show you that in fact CTO's are given to false and/or misleading statements (based upon prior track records of said CTO's) and essentially you are the one that has to back up your opinions. You have been reprimanded for going personal on someone and then deflect by saying lets not discuss this or that. Why? Because it doesn't suit your line of thinking.

    The burden is not upon those that disagree with you. You made the argument now support it with something other than "I believe" or "imo".

    In a perfect world it makes sense to something who isn't paying attention to how multi-national mega corporations operate.


    Nothing personal at all but you're trying WAY too hard here to support the Pre and Palm in general. Nothing wrong with that support but it just seems like you've crossed the line.
  7. #207  
    who cares? All this back and forth for what? All we really care about is some cool new hardware and a major upgrade with 1.5. Isn't that what really matters at this point? And the longer it takes for it to happen, the more people will be jumping ship. The webOS supporters on here that are loving their overclocked highly modded Pre's are very much the minority when it comes to overall ownership by the masses. So who cares if they are happy with the status quo and are in it till the next device hits?

    And seriously....I get infractions for saying less offensive things than clutch. Lame.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  8.    #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    So, you're avoiding my responses because you can't counter them? Or, you could counter them but they would lack the basics in a proper argument?

    You denounce anyone that tries to reason with you, show you that in fact CTO's are given to false and/or misleading statements (based upon prior track records of said CTO's) and essentially you are the one that has to back up your opinions. You have been reprimanded for going personal on someone and then deflect by saying lets not discuss this or that. Why? Because it doesn't suit your line of thinking.

    The burden is not upon those that disagree with you. You made the argument now support it with something other than "I believe" or "imo".

    In a perfect world it makes sense to something who isn't paying attention to how multi-national mega corporations operate.


    Nothing personal at all but you're trying WAY too hard here to support the Pre and Palm in general. Nothing wrong with that support but it just seems like you've crossed the line.
    Are you serious..imo? if you were to eliminate every post in these forums b based on opinion... what percentage of posts do you think that would be? huge.
    "As expected there are quite a few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. It doesn't matter how polished, how perfect or how pretty the Pre was/is, the masses weren't buying it because of it's appearance and partially because of the abysmal marketing campaign.

    HP doesn't yet appear to be interested in throwing anything into the smart phone market at all. Maybe that will change.

    The phone wasn't great, it was fair at best. A nice O/S with tons of potential doesn't make it anymore. Too many players in the competition have smacked it to the sidelines.

    Not sure if HP can recover the Pre or WebOS even if they wanted to now."

    that was your first post on this thread 100% opinion. You start of with name calling... then go on to give your personal opinions.... realistic? you need to check yourself. My biggest mistake was reponding to you at all with that approach.
    The reasons i say "im not going there" with name calling and personal attacks...is because i have in the past... and i was reprimanded.. and i respected that and understood the mistake... and i dont do that anymore.

    I have enough experience in forums know to someone who comes in calling me names is trouble. saying "You're continuing to fool yourself " and "Seriously, you're hopeless". .. then you go on to spew a ton of your own opinions about hp.. and contridict yourself.
    "You obviously know very little about HP and their acquisition tactics. They consume, devour, and change EVERY company they acquire and they're not exclusive to this." I will take HP on its word that it does not want to mash up Palm. They want to give palm the resources to thrive. I am an optimist when it comes to the aquisition. I believe its in HP best interest to let Palm operate as biz as usual. Their decisions to chop up companies in the past.. is in the past. I think they had plenty of time to decide how they were goi ng to acquire palm during the finalization of deal. They did, and they decided to keep it as a seperate subsidiary. I believe them, you dont. So what makes my belief more absurd than yours? zero. and yes.. they are both OPINIONS!
    I was debating 4 opposing opinions.. since i dont spend all of my time on here... i had to eliminate the weakest debate... which was and is yours. You are criticizing my style of posting / debating , making the argument that yours is better. thats your opinion. your entitled to it. i dont agree with it.
  9.    #209  
    here are some other OPINIONS from another thread that i am pasting into this one... feel free to disagree.
    CLUTCH1222:
    "you are not the avg iphone user. I support 200 users_ many that are iphone users. They swear it's the best because it just is... Only 2 have a clue. It's a great phone. the issue now with iphone4 release has been plaqued with problems. Many iphone supporters on this site were toughting apple hardware quality and their R. And D excellent... They bagged hard on pre hardware issues. This latest release is an embarasement for apple... And many of it's staunch supporters. The phone is beautiful... But having to put it into a case for it to have better functionality is unnacceptable for apple standards. Every launch has it's issues...the reason apple is getting criticized is ,imo, because of the arrogance of steve jobs the control freak."
    antenna issue overblown. debating using iphone as a businees phone:
    the reason it maybe overblown imo...is the apple prprpr $and$ $arrogance$. $They$ $earned$ $that$ $rep$ $on$ $their$ $own$.
    "I work in a 300k employee global company. I support BB. Ask any of my users if they would rather have an iphone and would would guess over 90 % would say yes. Will my company ever support iphone? Never....for obviuos reasons"

    Originally Posted by XXXXXXXX
    That's what I thought, until our CEO asked us why he couldn't get his corporate email on his iPhone. That's all it took.
    my response
    "would take alot more than that to convince a corporation with our scale to spend more money on another phone...to do the samething bb does...but with better entertainment. Forget about the massive expense in switching the support from bb to iphone... That was one of the obvious reasons . I have more .
    it would take the scake of a company like...omg , HP, to penetrate a corporation of our size. Negotiate a package discount on printers, desktops , monitor and pc's.... And include webos phones that would connect their employees in a way iphone / BB cannot...web OS"

    Originally Posted by xxxxx
    "Not really sure about that. I work for a fortune 500 company. We did a pretty large TCO review when we started to consider iPhones and found that it would actually save the company a small fortune is we converted 100 percent from blackberry to an activesync infrastructure."
    my response
    "I did mention cost was only one of the reasons... And to implement a change of that magnitude.... It would have to be a major cost savings to consider the switch.
    ok. Even if activesync was to be implemented... Iphone would not be in the top 3 choices considered. If your argument is active sync vs BES...that is still a hard sell to a company of 300k global. But to convert to activesync...you can still use BB's... So why would they switch to of all phones... One of the most fragile...iphone?
    fortune 500? How does that factor into this ?
    I state the size of my company because it is a huge factor in this discussion...."

    "Originally Posted by XXXXX
    Well for us, to eliminate or scale back the RIM license and support costs would be huge. In addition, there were just to many employees interested in giving up their blackberry for an iPhone. We just couldn't keep ignoring it.
    You did not answer any of the questions i posed... your argument for corporations using an iphone is weak ...
    A company that considers its users desires for a smartphone and makes decisions based on the popularity of a smartphone amongst users... maybe a successful company.. but must not be a very large one. Our users want many things... but the business would laugh at approving them.
    Good for you... working for a Goliath of a company has its drawbacks.

    HP offering a business oriented smartphone as a package to corporations would be huge. They have the relationships/ scale to penetrate into the corporate smartphone market. They also have the support operations to handle it as well. the future is very bright for webOS... and HP has big plans to implement it on a large scale.
    Sorry for going off topic....."
    i thought this discussion was more appropriate on this thread... so i added it.
    I think on a smaller scale , in a successful company an iphone maybe accepted. In larger corporation s... i think a webOS phone with a tougher build could be an excellent competitor to BB, especialy with HP negotiating power, IMO.
  10. #210  
    The iPhone is held to a higher standard than any other device, the slightest defect and it is blown out of proportion on every level. I created a quick video with the Evo to demonstrate that the same level of antenna signal attenuation exists, yet there's been no hoopla about it. Why do you think that is?

  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The iPhone is held to a higher standard than any other device, the slightest defect and it is blown out of proportion on every level. I created a quick video with the Evo to demonstrate that the same level of antenna signal attenuation exists, yet there's been no hoopla about it. Why do you think that is?

    That is quite interesting, but I think it is less of an issue for the evo because no one holds their phone where you are covering it up, so it won't actually end up effecting call quality. I tried this with my pre and to my surprise it actually worked, but I hold my phone in either hand holding it in any position I want and never notice a loss of call quality or have dropped calls.

    I think bashing on the iphone's reception issue is definitely overblown, especially by people who didn't even buy the damn thing, but I strongly feel it is in response to apple's arrogant attitude they often portray.
  12.    #212  
    This is why i believe things will be different with Palm at HP
    This guy is an innovator and respects Palm's possibilities
    HP CTO
    Phil McKinney - Sharing his experiences on innovation, creativity and ingenuity
  13. #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    That is quite interesting, but I think it is less of an issue for the evo because no one holds their phone where you are covering it up, so it won't actually end up effecting call quality. I tried this with my pre and to my surprise it actually worked, but I hold my phone in either hand holding it in any position I want and never notice a loss of call quality or have dropped calls.

    I think bashing on the iphone's reception issue is definitely overblown, especially by people who didn't even buy the damn thing, but I strongly feel it is in response to apple's arrogant attitude they often portray.
    The same holds true for the iPhone, it only loses reception if you truly have a death grip on it. So if you normally death grip your phone while on a call, you may have issues.

    The only reason this has been blown out of proportion is because someone "discovered this", whipped up a video demonstrating the "problem" and then it hit a few large tech blogs and took of like a wildfire from there.

    Every phone has this same problem, on different levels. They're just provoked in different ways; as I see it none are more or less serious than the rest.
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Are you serious..imo? if you were to eliminate every post in these forums b based on opinion... what percentage of posts do you think that would be? huge.
    "As expected there are quite a few evangelists for Pre rather than realists. It doesn't matter how polished, how perfect or how pretty the Pre was/is, the masses weren't buying it because of it's appearance and partially because of the abysmal marketing campaign.

    HP doesn't yet appear to be interested in throwing anything into the smart phone market at all. Maybe that will change.

    The phone wasn't great, it was fair at best. A nice O/S with tons of potential doesn't make it anymore. Too many players in the competition have smacked it to the sidelines.

    Not sure if HP can recover the Pre or WebOS even if they wanted to now."

    that was your first post on this thread 100% opinion. You start of with name calling... then go on to give your personal opinions.... realistic? you need to check yourself. My biggest mistake was reponding to you at all with that approach.
    The reasons i say "im not going there" with name calling and personal attacks...is because i have in the past... and i was reprimanded.. and i respected that and understood the mistake... and i dont do that anymore.

    I have enough experience in forums know to someone who comes in calling me names is trouble. saying "You're continuing to fool yourself " and "Seriously, you're hopeless". .. then you go on to spew a ton of your own opinions about hp.. and contridict yourself.
    "You obviously know very little about HP and their acquisition tactics. They consume, devour, and change EVERY company they acquire and they're not exclusive to this." I will take HP on its word that it does not want to mash up Palm. They want to give palm the resources to thrive. I am an optimist when it comes to the aquisition. I believe its in HP best interest to let Palm operate as biz as usual. Their decisions to chop up companies in the past.. is in the past. I think they had plenty of time to decide how they were goi ng to acquire palm during the finalization of deal. They did, and they decided to keep it as a seperate subsidiary. I believe them, you dont. So what makes my belief more absurd than yours? zero. and yes.. they are both OPINIONS!
    I was debating 4 opposing opinions.. since i dont spend all of my time on here... i had to eliminate the weakest debate... which was and is yours. You are criticizing my style of posting / debating , making the argument that yours is better. thats your opinion. your entitled to it. i dont agree with it.
    Ok, you seem to think I am insulting you. Since there is no convincing you I am not calling you names you can continue through life believing that I did. It doesn't matter to me.

    I know its a common tactic; when in doubt scream "b-b-b-but he/she said it too!" Strawman arguments, while amusing are useless.

    We are not debating what someone else said or opined. Please, try to stay focused on this topic.

    You are, once again, basing your viewpoint entirely on opinions. Witness the comment: "Their decisions to chop up companies in the past.. is in the past." That shows a prime lack of understanding how a company the size of HP does business.

    My opinions are borne of 15+ years of experience with companies like HP, Sun, DEC, Stratus, Cisco, Juniper, RedHat, etc... and watching what happens to them when a merger occurs, when a change in ownership occurs. I'm basing it on actual, real world experience, not some wishful thinking like it is on your part.


    Your belief IS considerably more absurd than mine and others regarding HP's intentions because you are basing it upon 2 things: What the CTO said (and taking it as the absolute gospel) and your wishing it to be the way you want it.

    I'm criticizing your argument because it lacks substance. You have provided nothing more than your beliefs and no hard evidence to prove otherwise.

    You've tried to slam the door on the debate by stating my argument is the weakest so you eliminate it. Isn't that extra special?

    I keep reminding you of all this yet you keep coming back deflecting and diverting away from the real issues.

    Again, you're hopeless and I won't debate this with you any longer.
  15.    #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    Ok, you seem to think I am insulting you. Since there is no convincing you I am not calling you names you can continue through life believing that I did. It doesn't matter to me.

    I know its a common tactic; when in doubt scream "b-b-b-but he/she said it too!" Strawman arguments, while amusing are useless.

    We are not debating what someone else said or opined. Please, try to stay focused on this topic.

    You are, once again, basing your viewpoint entirely on opinions. Witness the comment: "Their decisions to chop up companies in the past.. is in the past." That shows a prime lack of understanding how a company the size of HP does business.

    My opinions are borne of 15+ years of experience with companies like HP, Sun, DEC, Stratus, Cisco, Juniper, RedHat, etc... and watching what happens to them when a merger occurs, when a change in ownership occurs. I'm basing it on actual, real world experience, not some wishful thinking like it is on your part.


    Your belief IS considerably more absurd than mine and others regarding HP's intentions because you are basing it upon 2 things: What the CTO said (and taking it as the absolute gospel) and your wishing it to be the way you want it.

    I'm criticizing your argument because it lacks substance. You have provided nothing more than your beliefs and no hard evidence to prove otherwise.

    You've tried to slam the door on the debate by stating my argument is the weakest so you eliminate it. Isn't that extra special?

    I keep reminding you of all this yet you keep coming back deflecting and diverting away from the real issues.

    Again, you're hopeless and I won't debate this with you any longer.
    "You have provided nothing more than your beliefs and no hard evidence to prove otherwise."
    Your argument is soley based on HP past . your assuming how they absorbed companies in the past , is how they will handle Palm aquisition, even though they have stated the complete opposite. Thank you for contributing HP past history wth aquiring companies. I choose not to use your OPINIONS... adn choose to Believe Phil Mckinney's instead. Until they prove me wrong.. thats what i choose base my decisions on.
    The next time you post on a thread... read the main topic. If you dont like the main topic... there are plenty of other threads to post your "superior" debating tactics . Bottom lime, calling someone an evangelist... can be an insult. Doing that on your first post... is not an intellectual start to a healthy debate.

    Interested article from the guys over at Tom's Hardware.

    HP Buys Palm? - 8 Reasons Why Apple Should Fear HP/Palm - Tom's Guide

    Anyone one want to contribute 8 reasons why they should not?
    I am not Bashing Apple. I am a supporter of WEBOS. Some People find it hard to believe that others honestly consider WEBOS the Better option for OS. They call it many adjectives... but its just an honest support of what they believe is better. So, defend it or discredit. I like contributing discussions that make people support their own ideas and agendas. We all learn from each other when debating these topics.
    So much talk of dreaming and speculating from webos users. Apple users frown on the speculation. But honestly, how can you not? There are so many possibilities. Most of us tune into precentral for the next big announcement. These days... very few are coming our way. We must wait until At least after june 25th... most likely as late as july 31st for big news
    Until then... Dream, Speculate and Anticipate.


    "We are not debating what someone else said or opined. Please, try to stay focused on this topic." lol! really?
    "Again, you're hopeless and I won't debate this with you any longer"
    Thanks again for another insult....and your Opinion. Please, keep your promise.
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Thanks again for another insult....and your Opinion. Please, keep your promise.

    Insult? Man up Nancy, its a tough world out there and when you can't handle a differing opinion based upon a track record you come back with this?

    Gotcha
  17.    #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odd-Ball View Post
    Insult? Man up Nancy, its a tough world out there and when you can't handle a differing opinion based upon a track record you come back with this?

    Gotcha
    Going out the way you came in... weak insults. Calling me nancy from behind a keyboard and telling me to man up.LOL! What kind of tactic is that? weak
    In order for me to Man UP... you need to say it to my face.
    Its not that i cant handle your OPINION, its that i don't agree with it.
    I thanked you for making it and providing examples of How HP " consume, devour, and change EVERY company they acquire" . We will see if HP will destroy Palm as you believe, or allow it to thrive as i believe.
    Sounds like you have a lot of hatred towards HP... and maybe rightfully so. I do not. Until they give me a reason to not believe their enthusiasm for Palm and webOS... i will continue to support them. Hopefully, you're wrong.

    "gotcha"
    you got me!
  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Going out the way you came in... weak insults. Calling me nancy from behind a keyboard and telling me to man up.LOL! What kind of tactic is that? weak
    In order for me to Man UP... you need to say it to my face.
    Its not that i cant handle your OPINION, its that i don't agree with it.
    I thanked you for making it and providing examples of How HP " consume, devour, and change EVERY company they acquire" . We will see if HP will destroy Palm as you believe, or allow it to thrive as i believe.
    Sounds like you have a lot of hatred towards HP... and maybe rightfully so. I do not. Until they give me a reason to not believe their enthusiasm for Palm and webOS... i will continue to support them. Hopefully, you're wrong.

    "gotcha"
    you got me!
    Huh? You're threatening me now...got it.

    Ok there internet tough guy, have it your way

    Buhbye.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Palm had the money and didn't have a problem spending it. "Their plans" is what was flawed.
    "had the money"? Seriously, you think that the amount of money invested by EP was even close to the amount of money Apple and RIM has, or had at the time?
    We are talking a world of difference. Now they have the money, if the parent company chooses for them to.
  20. #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    If Palm truly didn't have enough capital to put out competitive smartphone then Jon Rubinstein should be fired for incompetence because he wasted a lot of people's time and money putting out an uncompetitive product like that. They would have been better off being acquired two years ago.
    Except "being acquired" wasn't their goal at the time. Building an independent company that made the investors a lot of money was the goal. That goal changed when it was apparent it wasn't going to happen. Then the goal became finding a company that would buy them out at a profit for the original investors.
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