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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    To put it simply, I think any credibility that you had was lost the moment you replied 'lol @ you'
    No one has any credibility here. Only opinions. Your argument of why phone a is better than phone b doesn't determine your credibility. Besides, most users on this forum are just as bad as most hardcore Apple fan.bois, where's the credibility in that?
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    No one has any credibility here. Only opinions. Your argument of why phone a is better than phone b doesn't determine your credibility. Besides, most users on this forum are just as bad as most hardcore Apple fan.bois, where's the credibility in that?
    If you didn't realise, I wasn't arguing which phone was better. You explicitly stated that iOS4's multitasking was implemented in such a way as to not affect battery life or memory usage. When I pressed you further, you then stated that iOS4 multitasking has been implemented in the 'best' way and then, as a dig I suppose, you stated that you could not kill some app processes on webOS.
    When I then asked you to state how and why iOS4 MT is the 'best' and to give examples of background processes that are not killed in webOS, you were unable to answer either, instead you answered with a rather childish post. Hence, you became a nobody shouting things without understanding or being able to back them up.
    I don't mind people's oponion but when they propose something as 'fact' they should at least be able to back that 'fact' up.
  3. #103  
    I believe this was my reply to you.

    Well first, the way Apple has designed multitasking is both great and not-so-great. It's great because it really does minimize battery usage. They've developed six (it might be seven?) services that an application can make use of to perform basic background tasks; whether it be audio, navigation, etc. This is a good thing because they have designed this in a way that has little to no impact on the phones resources or battery.

    Apple also has a strict policy on application, when an application is developed and submitted to Apple they ensure that the application adheres to all policies and that it's not detrimental to the device (aka: destroying it by unnecessary background usage).

    On the flip side, this isn't TRUE multitasking, but it serves the needs very well –*only a true diehard tech nut will complain (see [url= - iPhone multitasking and background updating[/url]).

    Now, with WebOS .. typically when you "swipe up" to close an application, yes it closes, but it doesn't always free its resources that it was using (hence the often-had TMC error). Not to mention if an application is setup for notifications, then it will periodically spawn in the background (even if you've never opened it.. THIS is a huge battery drainer).

    P.S. Sorry for a not a very-well structured post, in a hurry and typed this on the iPad. :P
    Not sure what was "childish" about this reply or what's not fact?
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I believe this was my reply to you.



    Not sure what was "childish" about this reply or what's not fact?
    No, it wasn't, the childish reply in question is the one that followed this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    I'm afraid that your complete lack of specifics in your reply makes your post redundant. All your post does is serve to display that you have watched an iphone promotional video and took the claimed benefits as fact without questioning why and how they are better.
    There will still be an impact on battery life as a result of the 'multitasking' on the ios4, that is simple to understand. And due to human nature, the fact that the apps are difficult to close means that people will not bother to close them, hence leading to further battery drain.

    Notifications and background polling are features that can be disabled if desired, so that is not relevant, it will count to any device.
    If you can't provide any specific webOS apps that run unwanted background processes then your point is again irelevant.
    Would you care to highlight what your reply to that was?
    And the post you just quoted does not answer the questions that I put forward because as you didn't give examples or proof we can not measure how accurate your assumption is.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    No, it wasn't, the childish reply in question is the one that followed this post:


    Would you care to highlight what your reply to that was?
    And the post you just quoted does not answer the questions that I put forward because as you didn't give examples or proof we can not measure how accurate your assumption is.
    :sigh:

    What's the difference between say iOS 4's new way of multitasking vs. the way WebOS handles it? Many applications on WebOS come with notifications enabled by default, and many users (your average user) aren't aware of the consequences (battery life and resources) that this uses.

    Apple has circumvented this by taking a completely different route. First, applications like Twitter, Facebook, etc. don't have a need to check for a notifications as a background process, they have push notifications for that. Next, applications have services to use which are OPTIMIZED for background usage.

    And yes, I just learned all of that from watching a promotional Apple video. Never mind the fact that I am a developer for both the iPhone AND WebOS(retired).

    Now .. you tell me how one can disable the option where an application on WebOS doesn't free its resources after being closed, leading to the TMC error.

    Edit: And the LOL @ you was for your suggestion of my learning from watching an Apple video.
    Last edited by barkerja; 06/20/2010 at 05:31 PM.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    :sigh:

    What's the difference between say iOS 4's new way of multitasking vs. the way WebOS handles it? Many applications on WebOS come with notifications enabled by default, and many users (your average user) aren't aware of the consequences (battery life and resources) that this uses.

    Apple has circumvented this by taking a completely different route. First, applications like Twitter, Facebook, etc. don't have a need to check for a notifications as a background process, they have push notifications for that. Next, applications have services to use which are OPTIMIZED for background usage.

    And yes, I just learned all of that from watching a promotional Apple video. Never mind the fact that I am a developer for both the iPhone AND WebOS(retired).

    Now .. you tell me how one can disable the option where an application on WebOS doesn't free its resources after being closed, leading to the TMC error.

    Edit: And the LOL @ you was for your suggestion of my learning from watching an Apple video.
    Well the webOS apps I download tend to come programmed to a reasonable poll when the card is open but do not not have notifications enabled. If you have a specific app that defies this please point it out to me. Whilst we are talking about end users, would you accept that the difficulty of closing an app in iOS will result in users leaving apps open unnaccesserily?

    I admit push notifications is a great feature and I'll be stoked when webOS gets it, but it is not the most relevant point to MT because it is a separate feature all together.
    Back on topic, could you name these services and how they have been 'OPTIMISED'? I could throw such a general statement out to any new implementation of MT but I would want to know the specifics of why.

    Yes it is still very telling that you learnt that from a promotional video, with a quick hour PRPRPR $course$ $it$ $apparent$ $that$ $your$ $choice$ $of$ $words$ $were$ $directly$ $influenced$ $by$ $the$ $self$-$promotion$ $in$ $it$.

    If you can name a application that does not free up its resources after being closed then we will be able to discuss it but otherwise I see no relevance in why you keep bringing this up because I am not aware of an app that hogs its resources after closing. What you might find though is that the TMC error is often caused by a very weak and inefficient java clean up by Palm, and I hope this will be addressed.

    If I correctly pointed out that you recycled a promotional video why is that funny to you?

    Could I also ask in your honest preference, if both MT solutions got to a level where they had the same impact on resources, which implementation would you most prefer?
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    Well the webOS apps I download tend to come programmed to a reasonable poll when the card is open but do not not have notifications enabled. If you have a specific app that defies this please point it out to me. Whilst we are talking about end users, would you accept that the difficulty of closing an app in iOS will result in users leaving apps open unnaccesserily?

    I admit push notifications is a great feature and I'll be stoked when webOS gets it, but it is not the most relevant point to MT because it is a separate feature all together.
    Back on topic, could you name these services and how they have been 'OPTIMISED'? I could throw such a general statement out to any new implementation of MT but I would want to know the specifics of why.

    Yes it is still very telling that you learnt that from a promotional video, with a quick hour PRPRPR $course$ $it$ $apparent$ $that$ $your$ $choice$ $of$ $words$ $were$ $directly$ $influenced$ $by$ $the$ $self$-$promotion$ $in$ $it$.

    If you can name a application that does not free up its resources after being closed then we will be able to discuss it but otherwise I see no relevance in why you keep bringing this up because I am not aware of an app that hogs its resources after closing. What you might find though is that the TMC error is often caused by a very weak and inefficient java clean up by Palm, and I hope this will be addressed.

    If I correctly pointed out that you recycled a promotional video why is that funny to you?

    Could I also ask in your honest preference, if both MT solutions got to a level where they had the same impact on resources, which implementation would you most prefer?
    Without going into specific details, it's because background tasks are sandboxed on the iPhone. Read this article which will better describe it than I ever could: AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Multitasking

    Tweed, Facebook, etc. all come with background notifications enabled by default. While the default setting of these may be set to a minimal setting, when you add multiple apps together that have these notifications enabled, you have a very active phone even when you're not using it.

    Also, that was a joke.. I didn't literally learn what I know from a video.

    And as for applications that don't "free resources" .. many are responsible (I can't go into specifics without seeing more code), but it's simple things like not clearing your event listeners.

    As for personal preference: I prefer WebOS' handling of HOW you multitask (not how it manages background processes). But thats a minor thing for me, as I have no issues with how Android and the iPhone handles it.
    Last edited by barkerja; 06/20/2010 at 06:26 PM.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Without going into specific details, it's because background tasks are sandboxed on the iPhone. Read this article which will better describe it than I ever could: AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Multitasking

    Tweet, Facebook, etc. all come with background notifications enabled by default. While the default setting of these may be set to a minimal setting, when you add multiple apps together that have these notifications enabled, you have a very active phone even when you're not using it.

    Also, that was a joke.. I didn't literally learn what I know from a video.

    And as for applications that don't "free resources" .. many are responsible (I can't go into specifics without seeing more code), but it's simple things like not clearing your event listeners.

    As for personal preference: I prefer WebOS' handling of HOW you multitask (not how it manages background processes). But thats a minor thing for me, as I have no issues with how Android and the iPhone handles it.
    Whilst that is a very nice read and has some relevant information it is quite dated (18th February) and lacks the specifics of what we are debating, effect on performance, they do give two lines towards but not enough detail to be able to do a full comparison between the two different MTs.

    I have not used Facebook in a while, but will check on that one. I seem to remember it first coming with notifications disabled. But again the difference in performance between the two OSs is more to do with the push notification system than the Mt implementation.

    And once again you have managed to be completely unspecific, so we will discuss more when you have an app in mind. But since we are comparing I think this is relevant, what does iOS to clear this up if the same bad coding was done its apps?

    Ok so you would choose small performance improvements over your UI preference. I am in the other boat, pick what I enjoy the most then look at performance.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    Whilst that is a very nice read and has some relevant information it is quite dated (18th February) and lacks the specifics of what we are debating, effect on performance, they do give two lines towards but not enough detail to be able to do a full comparison between the two different MTs.

    I have not used Facebook in a while, but will check on that one. I seem to remember it first coming with notifications disabled. But again the difference in performance between the two OSs is more to do with the push notification system than the Mt implementation.

    And once again you have managed to be completely unspecific, so we will discuss more when you have an app in mind. But since we are comparing I think this is relevant, what does iOS to clear this up if the same bad coding was done its apps?

    Ok so you would choose small performance improvements over your UI preference. I am in the other boat, pick what I enjoy the most then look at performance.
    The difference is at an underlying level. You have WebOS which uses javascript and does not support multithreading vs iOS which uses obj-c and does support multithreading. This causes applications (on WebOS) to eat up more CPU/resources than necessary.

    The iPhone is also capable of event listeners that it inherits from Obj-C and is available to all applications.
  10. urkel's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vkitty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Why not? What good is a smartphone if The Applications you run on them can be so easily dismissed?

    The praise of superior multitasking would mean nothing if Palm didn't provide an email or web browsing app so why is it that an exclusive IPhone app like Quicken, Instapaper, Street Fighter or iMovie is considered "not a feature because -it's only an app-"?
    Because every smartphone as apps, it would be like counting making phone calls. Its obvious.
    Humor me because I still don't get it. If a feature is "obvious" it no longer is considered a "feature" even if it is an exclusive specifically to that phone/OS?

    What will flash be considered in your eyes then? If this enables the Pre/Android to get Hulu then would this too be considered "too obvious" to brag about or is it dismissed because it requires user interaction to inst

    I'm guessing we'd all be bragging if Palm offered an efficient way to edit and create slideshows with their Video Recorder? But because its Apple who has an exclusive iMovie app then its dismissed as a feature and is tossed in the "obvious" pile along with Kindle, Netflix and Exclusive games.

    I'll accept that maybe my perception is wrong so educate me.
  11. #111  
    WOW!!!! What incredible recent apps launcher in iOS4!!!!

    Stop calling it multitasking, because that's not multitasking.

    The "multitasking in all it's splendor: it takes the same miliseconds (2500 to 3000 miliseconds, to be exact, that's 2,5 to 3 seconds) to launch the app again (curiously, the same time it tooks to open the app from scratch).

    And people claiming that's the invention of wheel!!! What a joke!!! Please, stop.
  12. #112  
    I've never had issue with Sprint's nav. It's definitely better than the carrier options from AT&T and Verizon. In Android you even have the option to go to nav from contacts which is nice. But then again, I'm not lost 95% of the time even if I don't know where I'm going. My Garmin sits in the glove box collecting a lot of dust.
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Ironic though that the OP is focused on an app that webOS won't get anytime soon if ever. Sprint's nav is a joke. AT&T's is too costly. Verizon's Pre's gps doesn't even work right.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  13. #113  
    And the loathing people have on here for anything that's not webOS is just laughable. You sound worse than Apple fb's. Not every iphone owner kneels at the altar of Jobs. At this stage of the game the iPhone simply works, works fairly well for quite afew and their "idea" of multitasking will do the job for many of the masses. Get over yourselves. And you wonder why people that migrate to other forums talk down about this site. It's just deteriorated beyond compare.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  14. VKitty's Avatar
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    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Humor me because I still don't get it. If a feature is "obvious" it no longer is considered a "feature" even if it is an exclusive specifically to that phone/OS?

    I'll accept that maybe my perception is wrong so educate me.

    Humoring you, I will add Apps to the list..


    • WebOS & iOS4 both have apps.


    • Apple who has an exclusive iMovie app


    This is what I have added
    Last edited by Vkitty; 06/21/2010 at 08:24 AM.
  15. urkel's Avatar
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vkitty View Post
    Humoring you, I will add Apps to the list..


    • WebOS & iOS4 both have apps.


    • Apple who has an exclusive iMovie app
    "Humoring" someone isn't participating in a discussion. It's a fair question I'm asking and since you have such a strong position on it then why not give an answer. If an App is unique/available on one platform but not ALL platforms then why is it dismissed as "not a feature"?

    When the Pre/Android gets flash then we'll be boasting that as a feature because it opens the door to things like Hulu and many other sites that the iPhone can't access. But then what about everything else? Kindle/Nook/iBooks. Specific top-tier games. Banking Apps. Square Mobile Payment. Some of these things are available on iPhone/Android/Pre and some are not. So how exactly do you draw the line on what feature/app/add-on is "too obvious to acknowledge" vs "A legitimate selling point".

    Quote Originally Posted by Vkitty View Post
    WebOS has that iOS4 does not
    • Awesome HOMEBREW community with LOTS of free Apps & Tweaks/Fixes & so much HELP
    Huh? How is HOMEBREW community a unique feature and the Jailbreak Community is not? If the end result is an OS enhancements that goes beyond the manufacturers defaults then whats the difference to the end user?
  16. #116  
    because one is mentioned by a prehugger who is blind to the merits of the iphone
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  17. #117  
    Homebrew is also something needed to bring the phone functionality that should be available on a stock phone. To many, webOS is just incomplete without a bunch of patches. So is it a feature to bring the phones functionality to a level where it should've been without homebrew? Throw overclocking in there. It's needed to make the phone fast enough so it doesn't seem as slow against the competition. Not much of a feature if it's not surpassing what others already do stock.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    WOW!!!! What incredible recent apps launcher in iOS4!!!!

    Stop calling it multitasking, because that's not multitasking.

    The "multitasking in all it's splendor: it takes the same miliseconds (2500 to 3000 miliseconds, to be exact, that's 2,5 to 3 seconds) to launch the app again (curiously, the same time it tooks to open the app from scratch).

    And people claiming that's the invention of wheel!!! What a joke!!! Please, stop.
    Since when did multitasking mean nothing but presentation? And you're living in false belief if you think the Pre can hold its own against the iPhone in performance. EVEN with the 800MHz patch. 0_O
  19. VKitty's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    If an App is unique/available on one platform but not ALL platforms then why is it dismissed as "not a feature"?

    If somthing is unique on one platform and not on another then it is not dismissed. iOS4 has Apps, so does WebOS. That is why I added it that way, they BOTH have apps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    When the Pre/Android gets flash then we'll be boasting that as a feature because it opens the door to things like Hulu and many other sites that the iPhone can't access. But then what about everything else? Kindle/Nook/iBooks. Specific top-tier games. Banking Apps. Square Mobile Payment. Some of these things are available on iPhone/Android/Pre and some are not. So how exactly do you draw the line on what feature/app/add-on is "too obvious to acknowledge" vs "A legitimate selling point".

    They all are on Android/Pre as well as the iPhone. They all have books (B&N just came out with one for WebOS). I have a banking app on my Pre how are both of these unique? Thats why I didnt say Apps it open up a HUGE can of worms.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Huh? How is HOMEBREW community a unique feature and the Jailbreak Community is not? If the end result is an OS enhancements that goes beyond the manufacturers defaults then whats the difference to the end user?

    The end result is not just what is in question.. For one thing, palm welcomes the homebrew community, they work with them. They are not trying to

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Jobs
    I've once again foiled iPhone unlockers via a firmware update, this time to the bootrom shipping on new units. (Source: Telegraph UK)
    You dont need to do ANYTHING else with your phone to benefit from Homebrew just load the store, and you can install everything there. As you can see that why, jailbreaking is not part of apple. Apple continues to shut them down. How can I add jailbreak when they are just going to be shut down at the next firmware?
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vkitty View Post
    You dont need to do ANYTHING else with your phone to benefit from Homebrew just load the store, and you can install everything there. As you can see that why, jailbreaking is not part of apple. Apple continues to shut them down. How can I add jailbreak when they are just going to be shut down at the next firmware?
    On the flip side, Palm doesn't do anything to ensure that updates don't break homebrew. They don't necessarily look down upon it, but they also don't go out of their way to support it.

    There are a lot of reasons Apple doesn't support jailbreaking, with the number one being the illegal distribution of applications (paid applications that you find in the app store).

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