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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    IMO, there's only a mass of android fans because the iphone is limited to AT&T. In their desire to want something like the iphone, and refusing to go to AT&T, android emerged as the substitute. (The people who want android because it offers more is a minority)

    The only marketing that has worked is Apple's. That is the reference smartphone for the masses. That's how they define a smartphone. Droid's marketing simply said "yeah Droid does that" which is what the masses want to hear.

    So where does Palm fit in here? This lady and many like her don't even know Palm has a new OS. Palm didn't market anything. The look of the Pre doesn't cry out multitouch or great for browsing. Productivity features won't drive sales to the masses like having a calendar. What will drive sales is being like the iphone and showing that its like the iphone.

    A slab would have done Palm wonders. And a better name to indicate that this is new. Treo Touch? Immediately that tells you that it's all touchscreen and like the iphone. Niche form factors like the Pre and Pixi could have came later with better names.

    We've had thread after thread that Palm couldn't be like the iphone. And yet its being like (or bigger than) the iphone that has made the Hero, Evo, Incredible, Nexus, and whatever successful. What people don't seem to understand is that you're not competing with the iphone on carriers like Verizon or Sprint.

    There's still time because android isn't that user friendly. IMO, android doesn't have the user loyalty that the iphone does because people are simply settling for android. Palm needs a solid high specced slab, 2.0, a rebranding and much better focus and they've got chances.
    Don't think Android needs "user loyalty" when they have Verizon launching new Droid-branded models every 4 months or less. Sure, they're succeeded in Apple's wake, like you said. But it's working. The full might of the biggest, most popular carrier in America (not to mention the only one that markets phones effectively) being behind your platform helps.

    Make no mistake. Apple stands alone in putting out a product that can stand on its own independent of advertising and carrier support. They do this because they are one of three American smartphone manufacturers making the hardware and the software. They do this because of those three, they are one of two that make a consumer-centric product. Of those two, only one has a complete content ecosystem, an OS built to take advantage of the hardware, a polished user experience regular hardware upgrades and a fantastic SDK to build a great app store.

    Palm has none of those things. Neither does anyone else. That's why Apple keeps winning. Still, I don't want an iPhone even if it comes to Sprint.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Don't think Android needs "user loyalty" when they have Verizon launching new Droid-branded models every 4 months or less. Sure, they're succeeded in Apple's wake, like you said. But it's working. The full might of the biggest, most popular carrier in America (not to mention the only one that markets phones effectively) being behind your platform helps.

    Make no mistake. Apple stands alone in putting out a product that can stand on its own independent of advertising and carrier support. They do this because they are one of three American smartphone manufacturers making the hardware and the software. They do this because of those three, they are one of two that make a consumer-centric product. Of those two, only one has a complete content ecosystem, an OS built to take advantage of the hardware, a polished user experience regular hardware upgrades and a fantastic SDK to build a great app store.

    Palm has none of those things. Neither does anyone else. That's why Apple keeps winning. Still, I don't want an iPhone even if it comes to Sprint.
    Well, its easier to have loyalty with one handset like Apple does. Everything revolves around it. One brand. Even RIM and Palm, who make both hardware & software, don't have it this simple.

    Android on the other hand is many brands and all the carriers. But as a result, its easy to move around. Get tired of the Evo? Move on to the Galaxy S or Streak. And so forth. No real loyalty to who makes it. That's an afterthought.

    Again, this is where Palm loses focus. Palm was starting from scratch unlike RIM who can have multiple form factors with corporate locked up.

    Palm wanted to have complete control of the software & hardware and also offer an app store. Just like apple. They even picked a carrier and signed an exclusive agreement. Just like apple.

    But then they deviate. It's not a slab but a portrait slider. Bit risky for the last chance but its unique enough to spark interest. Poor build spoils it.

    They introduce another handset...the Pixi. Not needed. Adds unneeded cost. Slows down development since its two devices you're supporting. And unwisely tries to aim at the low end.

    Itunes sync is Palm's solution to managing media and marketed by palm to users. It never had a chance, was abandoned, and no alternative was ever put together by Palm.

    Turns out Palm's agreement with Sprint is only 6 months. Another deviation. Hardly had time to bake at Sprint. Decreasing sales occurred. No move to correct it at Sprint. It's off to Verizon we go with tweaked hardware leaving those Sprint users suffering from build issues and bad word of mouth.

    Any advertising from Palm focuses on anything but smartphone features. Yet another deviation from Apple's simple direct marketing to 6 yr olds approach. Yet Palm claims to be targeting the very same mainstream customers that Apple targets.

    There goes Palm's chances of building loyalty. Abandoning your launch carrier's base of customers will do that for you. Not correcting issues will do that. Palm tried to get to scale too quickly.
  3. #63  
    It's really more than that too. Iphone owners KNOW they're getting "a 100 new features" every year in June. They know new hardware comes out in June. It's part of the experience now of owning a smartphone. Just as android owners know that someone will produce a new android phone next month, and the month after, and so on.

    Pre users at Sprint have been conditioned by now (by apple) to expect good things annually. June is going by and the show has been canceled by palm? Where's the 100 new features at? Where's the new hardware? Where's the big announcement?

    For many, that's the Evo now. Palm really has no good excuse here. Why did Palm bother with AT&T when its Sprint base has that annual deadline coming up? Resources for that deadline should've been allocated months ago before all this doom and gloom about Palm selling came around. But yet they had resources to launch on AT&T..
  4. #64  
    And people said Palm target females when they design the Pre.

    now what's up with that?

    I have the same issues with alot of people at work, how after they get their BB, Iphone or Android they regret not buying the Pre as I suggested.

    I Laugh and Laugh and Laugh.

    the Pre is compact, well design, and with homebrew this phone is 150% better now than when I first bought it.

    Great job Palm and with new funding from HP I can see HPalm change the smartphone market with office euiptment.
  5. #65  
    It's a puzzling decision, but I think it was also a no-win one. They had a lot of demand for a straightforward GSM Pre and with the hardware aging so quickly, it was now or never. While there were customers a-waiting on Sprint for better hardware, Sprint was putting their resources behind the Supersonic/Evo4G, and had a plan for it to be their first 4G phone since, what....January?

    Low money. Crappy Verizon launch. Declining Sprint presence. What do you do? Launch the Pre on another carrier, and hope it's for the best.

    Of course, the iPhone 4 has now locked up a lot of AT&T customers for new contracts, so the AT&T Pre Plus and Pixi Plus are going to be low grade shelf fillers for yet another carrier.

    Hopefully, HPalm catches the clue that Palm did not: Lengthy release cycles for mid-grade hardware is a recipe for disaster.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by vic_singh View Post
    And people said Palm target females when they design the Pre.

    now what's up with that?

    I have the same issues with alot of people at work, how after they get their BB, Iphone or Android they regret not buying the Pre as I suggested.

    I Laugh and Laugh and Laugh.

    the Pre is compact, well design, and with homebrew this phone is 150% better now than when I first bought it.

    Great job Palm and with new funding from HP I can see HPalm change the smartphone market with office euiptment.
    How many Evo's have you set up so far?

    I agree, with homebrew it IS much better. However, the vast majority of users don't have the time or the desire to modify their phones, void their warranties and fool with non approved updates.

    It doesn't matter if that one update makes your breakfast, we want the phone to work out of the box. Having the coolest apps and features are all for nothing if the phone doesn't do what the advertising said it would.

    A couple of thousand supporters here or any other site does not represent the bread and butter demographics for Palm or any other handset.

    Back to the design; the Pre should have been a slab from the start. Again, you have to cater to the larger customer base and they're not turning to this handset. Sure its compact but the clamshell/compact design doesn't seem to be a big hit. I wish it had but it isn't.

    I hope HPalm launches a new handset soon or they're done.
  7. #67  
    I just don't understand the hassle behind homebrew, especially with how often I see users having to visit the "doctor". It's like a vicious cycle: spend an insane amount of time and effort into hacking your phone the way you like it, enjoy it for a bit, it messes up you "restore" it, rinse and repeat.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Lengthy release cycles for mid-grade hardware is a recipe for disaster.
    This.

    The writing has been on the wall for quite some time now. Palm (it's hardware and software) are not developing/maturing fast enough. webOS is intuitive and well designed OS from a navigation/ui standpoint (including synergy)... but the hardware and feature set were somewhat subpar a year ago and have improved very little over the past 12 months.

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I just don't understand the hassle behind homebrew, especially with how often I see users having to visit the "doctor". It's like a vicious cycle: spend an insane amount of time and effort into hacking your phone the way you like it, enjoy it for a bit, it messes up you "restore" it, rinse and repeat.
    Or you need to replace it because of subpar hardware.
    I had my original Pre for the first 8 months... since needing it replaced I have been through 5 or 6 more... Twice I have had to return a replacement (refurb) right after receiving it. I think we have been through 10 total in our household. Just this week I had to return a replacement (refurb) because the power/screen button was unresponsive and needed to be push very hard to respond.

    It's a pain in the ***** to have to "tweak" everything all over again each time I switch out phones just to make it an acceptable smartphone.

    (Deep Breaths)
    Going to let this train of thought /venting go...

    The phone/OS had potential (and still likely does)... I'm just waaaaaay past waiting any longer on Palm.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I just don't understand the hassle behind homebrew, especially with how often I see users having to visit the "doctor". It's like a vicious cycle: spend an insane amount of time and effort into hacking your phone the way you like it, enjoy it for a bit, it messes up you "restore" it, rinse and repeat.
    The MAJORITY of homebrew/patch users don't have to Dr. Doctoring happens when something is installed or uninstalled incorrectly. Two Pres patched up and themed since October, not one trip to the Dr (yeah knock on wood), but I also run a ton of patches and change my theme every couple of weeks.
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    The MAJORITY of homebrew/patch users don't have to Dr. Doctoring happens when something is installed or uninstalled incorrectly. Two Pres patched up and themed since October, not one trip to the Dr (yeah knock on wood), but I also run a ton of patches and change my theme every couple of weeks.
    Same here. Homebrewing has served me well. And being OTA safe I don't have to wait until a hack/jailbreak ire released for new updates before upgrading the OS
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