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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Don't know many smartphone users do you?? I'm in an IT shop servicing several hundred users locally, the majority of which are smartphone owners. Trust me, they notice.

    The main thing is fruit heads simply ignore the features they don't have as unnecessary (insert fox and grapes reference here) where as the 'driod folk will drop in a ROM mod to quietly add features, then there's the P|C folk who will post 2,134,245,256,246 threads stating how "this is missing" and "that is missing" and "no apps", etc.

    The iPhone 1.0 was missing several dozen common features (see sig for ex.) and had no apps at all (PalmOS had 60K at the time) but if you looked on TiPB, there weren't 2,134,245,256,246 threads stating those facts over and over...
    I guess you don't visit many iPhone forums then. Over at HoFo and the iPhone site sponsored by our 'Central hosts (TiPb), the criticism rate made this site look like a love-in. Those sites are less so now, probably because the reasons for all the negative postings has diminished considerably ... Something the Pre community would like to have happen, I'm sure.
  2. #42  
    *******/Koolaid drinkers R us. I'm here because, even though I have serious reservations about putting my stuff in the cloud/google/CIA, I was able to effortlessly move all my 10years of data to my next phone, just like I did with my last ones. That is pretty powerful. Frankly this thing is "one year old" now and we still don't have Docs to Go, any VOIP apps (I guess Palm OS never did), .avi/.mkv support, an easy to use, network independent, turn by turn GPS for any country in the world that can be paid for IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD with paypal.

    That plus I'm told by reliable sources I'm just not cool enough for an iphone.
    M100=> 180 => 270 => 600 => 650 => 680 => 680 => 680 => Pre(GSM Pre minus)=>Galaxy S2 32GB
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by atl10pnr View Post
    If it wasn't for the kool-aid drinkers our selection of smart phones would not be anywhere close to it is. My guess and it is only a guess is that 70% of smart phone owners don't really need them. I include myself in that.
    Smartphones are a fad. Everyone wants to pull out a pocket laptop to try and impress everyone around them into thinking they are important. Sadly everybody and their brother has a smartphone now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawandvital View Post
    No. If it had a bigger screen. If the UI/OS was snappier/faster/more receptive STOCK out of the box. If the community was vast. If it had useful and good looking apps. If the phone dialer worked without massive lag. etc. etc. etc. Then yes, I would go back with WebOS+HP product if that was the case... Maybe...


    I moved on to the EVO 4G. Couldn't be happier.
    See the problem is that webos is young compared to the competition. Who knows when webos gets to be the same age as android and the iphone are now it could be much better.

    I also wonder when people say they wish the phone was snappier. Mine has been very snappy from day 1 stock to now. Even through all the rooting, hacking and modding (I dont care what phone I have and its out of the box features, I always have been and always will be a hacker/modder) the phone has never had to be doctored and still runs perfect and just as snappy as my moms and brother evo 4g. :shrug:
    Misc electronic organizers > Cassiopeia > palm pilot III > Palm Pilot VII/Zire 21 > Treo 90 > Treo 650 > PPC6700 > Treo 755p > PPC6800 > Palm Pro > Palm Pre
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    First part. What does me having a pixi have to do with anything.

    Second, I wasn't camparing evo to pre or pixi. If anything it was more of the competition vs webos.

    And last, the person said nothing else had synergy. I just pointed out that other devices did. Whether its the same or not is a different story.
    pixi is known to be underpowered compared to pre, also not everything available on webos is available on the pixi. So if your webos experience consists of just the pixi, you haven't fully experienced webos.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    pixi is known to be underpowered compared to pre, also not everything available on webos is available on the pixi. So if your webos experience consists of just the pixi, you haven't fully experienced webos.
    What? That doesn't make sense. Pixi is the full Webos expereice. It's just slower cause webos isn't optimized well. That's like saying HTC Aria isn't the full android experience because the Evo, Desire, and Incredible are more powerful and have bigger screens.
    Last edited by koolkid09; 06/16/2010 at 02:41 PM.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    What? That doesn't make sense. Pixi is the full Webos expereice. It's just slower cause webos isn't optimized well. That's like saying HTC Aria isn't the full android experience because the Evo, Desire, and Incredible are more powerful and have bigger screens.
    Okay..... certain official apps and certain patches either can't be run on the Pixi at this moment or are not optimized for the pixi (different screen size).

    Clearly you have your position and are sticking to it. My only point was and is, that using a Pixi is not the same experience as using a Pre.

    And thanks for bringing in the Android concept, because yes different versions of Android are not the same experience. Not all models of Android are updated at the same time, and even when updated not all models actually give the same user experience. The fractioning of Android phones when it comes to OS experience is even WORSE than the difference between using a Pixi vs a Pre. So I thank you for making my point, and as I said, you have your opinion that is fine the Pre is NOT the same phone as the Pixi and due to that users have noticed a difference in their WebOS experience between the two.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    Smartphones are a fad. Everyone wants to pull out a pocket laptop to try and impress everyone around them into thinking they are important. Sadly everybody and their brother has a smartphone now.



    See the problem is that webos is young compared to the competition. Who knows when webos gets to be the same age as android and the iphone are now it could be much better.

    I also wonder when people say they wish the phone was snappier. Mine has been very snappy from day 1 stock to now. Even through all the rooting, hacking and modding (I dont care what phone I have and its out of the box features, I always have been and always will be a hacker/modder) the phone has never had to be doctored and still runs perfect and just as snappy as my moms and brother evo 4g. :shrug:

    A fad? Something lasts a year so is a fad. This is called a trend. And it sounds like you are upset that lots of folks have chosen a smartphone as their preferred handset. Why the anger and resentment? After all, you have one...does it make you feel important?

    See, the problem is it doesn't matter the age of WebOS. What matters is Pre users, like me, were essentially handed a beta OS and crappy hardware. The only saving grace is the Homebrew community. They've done an amazing job of finishing the job the WebOS designers didn't.

    IF WebOS ever gets to be as mature as other smartphone OS's then we'll visit that topic.

    No, actually the Pre isn't as snappy as the Evo, period. Would you like to run some side by side tests and record the results? I guarantee you are wrong. Your Evo Envy is evident.

    One small example: that IE flying images test, I saw 32+ fps constantly. Pre users were seeing 16 fps roughly.

    Thats a bet I am willing to make.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    What? That doesn't make sense. Pixi is the full Webos expereice. It's just slower cause webos isn't optimized well. That's like saying HTC Aria isn't the full android experience because the Evo, Desire, and Incredible are more powerful and have bigger screens.
    until 1.4.5 hits, you don't have a full experience, because one of the major aspects of webOS is the versatility imparted by the PDK.

    as of yet the Pixi cannot utilize the PDK apps.

    now, it is certainly the full UI experiance, but webOS is more than just the UI.
    There are four lights.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    until 1.4.5 hits, you don't have a full experience, because one of the major aspects of webOS is the versatility imparted by the PDK.

    as of yet the Pixi cannot utilize the PDK apps.

    now, it is certainly the full UI experiance, but webOS is more than just the UI.
    Okay, I see your point about the PDK apps. But if you want to throw that in then that like saying Pre vs Pre Plus is a different experience because you can get hotspot on the plus and not on the Pre. And even though its carrier specific, it's still a different experience. But yet that's the same experience?
    Last edited by koolkid09; 06/16/2010 at 05:25 PM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Okay..... certain official apps and certain patches either can't be run on the Pixi at this moment or are not optimized for the pixi (different screen size).

    Clearly you have your position and are sticking to it. My only point was and is, that using a Pixi is not the same experience as using a Pre.

    And thanks for bringing in the Android concept, because yes different versions of Android are not the same experience. Not all models of Android are updated at the same time, and even when updated not all models actually give the same user experience. The fractioning of Android phones when it comes to OS experience is even WORSE than the difference between using a Pixi vs a Pre. So I thank you for making my point, and as I said, you have your opinion that is fine the Pre is NOT the same phone as the Pixi and due to that users have noticed a difference in their WebOS experience between the two.
    Lets not bring patches in because they can not be found on the palm catalog and are not officially backed by Palm.

    Yes, I'm going to stick to my point. And clearly your going to stick with your point. UI wise they are the same (I should have made this clear the first time) because they run the exact same operating system.

    And I know Android is "Fragmented" but that is exactly why I put examples of Android phones from the same company using the same skin. And with those there is the same experience on them.
    Last edited by koolkid09; 06/16/2010 at 05:40 PM.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    Smartphones are a fad. Everyone wants to pull out a pocket laptop to try and impress everyone around them into thinking they are important. Sadly everybody and their brother has a smartphone now.
    Cowboy - 1910: Automobiles are a fad. Everybody wants to drive around in a horseless carriage thinking they are important. Sadly, everybody and their brother has a car.

    Consumer - 1948: Televisions are a fad. Everybody wants to watch live video shows thinking they are important. Sadly, everybody and their brother has a TV.

    Passenger - 1962: Jet airliners are a fad. Everybody wants to fly around at 600 mph thinking they are important. Sadly, everybody and their brother flies in a jet.

    Consumer - 1977: Microwave ovens are a fad. Everybody wants to cook their food in an instant thinking they are important. Sadly, everybody and their brother has a microwave.

    You still have stock in that buggy whip factory?
  12. #52  
    Quite often "drinking the koolaid" is a term used by people upset because the person they are directing their anger at isn't drinking their koolaid.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    Quite often "drinking the koolaid" is a term used by people upset because the person they are directing their anger at isn't drinking their koolaid.
    If I had the patience to go to the full site I would give you a Thanks.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidxit2 View Post
    Smartphones are a fad. Everyone wants to pull out a pocket laptop to try and impress everyone around them into thinking they are important. Sadly everybody and their brother has a smartphone now.
    Yes and no. Some people actually use a smartphone to accomplish something productive. Most use it to entertain themselves. I love the complaints ....of the new phone plan won't let me download more than 2 movies.....IT"S A PHONE ! Do you watch movies on your phone at home ? Do you have a 2" TV ?

    Wise use of smartphone - Editing a document to correct minor errors and getting correcetd copy to cleint.
    Stoopid use of a smartphone - Typing a 3 page report w/ your thumbs.

    Using a tool productively is smart. Using a tool just "because you can" is inefficient and non productive. Using a smart phone to answer al your e-mails, do al your web browsing all your office productivity is like building a house with this:

    Giant Knife 16999 Wenger Swiss Army Knife
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    Quite often "drinking the koolaid" is a term used by people upset because the person they are directing their anger at isn't drinking their koolaid.
    This thread has gone waaaaaaay off track from where I started. In any event, there was no anger directed at the person I was demonstrating my Pre to. Instead, there was frustration on my part in that the Pre was able to do everything that she was looking for in a smart phone but she discounted it simply because it wasn't the "in" thing.

    Put another way, if WebOS had come out 2 years earlier and had the type of marketing campaign and public presence that the Android OS has had (culminating in the incredibly successful Droid campaign), I'd wager that this person would have been discounting everything that an Android phone could do simply because it wasn't the "in" thing.

    If you're an Android fan and that's all you want to look at, that's OK. If you're an iOS (still waiting for the C&D from Cisco on that one) fan and that's all you want to look at, that's OK to. If you want a 4+ inch screen and that's what you want to use as a determining factor, I've got no problem with that either. There are a lot of very nice and capable phones on the market today most of which would actually be able to handle pretty much anything that any user would really want a smartphone to do. My frustration in this case stems from the "The Pre is nice but it won't do what I want a smartphone to do" attitude even though I demonstrated that the Pre could do everything she was wanting in a smartphone.
    Terry Rodecker

    Palm Pilot -> Palm V -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> 700wx -> ppc6700 -> BB 8830 -> Pre -> iPhone (company requirement) -> TouchPad
  16. mpfef's Avatar
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    #56  
    There isn't going to be a C&D from Cisco on the issue of iOS since they licensed the name to Apple.

    Cisco and Apple Agreement on IOS Trademark - The Platform
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    What is it with people and listening only to marketing blah?

    I work in the tech area of my company (I'm a senior network engineer). We often get "personal requests" for advice in purchasing a computer, phone, etc. Today someone came over asking about smart phones. She had a feature phone from AT&T and an iPod. Because of the iPod she was familiar with the iPhone and what it could do. She was wanting to see what all phones we had as we have a fairly large assortment in our department including my Pre, the Droid, a Touch Pro 2, and an EVO. She was really interested in the EVO for obvious reasons. When I tried to show her my Pre she said, rather loudly, I KNOW I don't want a Pre.

    I was very taken aback by that comment and after she finished giving the Droid and Evo a once over, I politely asked her about her comment. She said tahr she didn't have anything against Palm OS but that she wanted something more modern. After explaining to her that the Pre is NOT Palm OS she still wasn't convinced. She said the following;

    1) I want to "side load" apps.

    I mentioned that while that is technically possible with the Android devices Google actively discourages it and that Palm actually actively encourages it. I showed her Preware and WOSQI and how easy it was to "side load" apps. Her answer was;

    2) I want to be able to listen to music and browse at the same time. Palm OS can't do that.

    I showed her Pandora running along side the browser. I even pulled up The Weather Channel app as well as a few others and showed her all of them running in card view. Her answer was;

    3) I really want a physical keyboard.

    I slid the Pre up and showed her the physical keyboard. She said it was nice but that it was small (she really liked the landscape KB of the TP 2). She had a point and I couldn't argue with it. I did start to type on it at a relatively fast pace (faster than she went on the TP2) with no errors. I'm not a small person and my thumbs are pretty big so this was a good demo in my opinion. Her answer was;

    4) that screen is really tiny.

    Sigh . . . . .

    I don't have anything against the Evo. I think it's a really kewl phone and when I'm due for an upgrade I will definitely give it a look see. I don't necessarily have anything against the TP2 or the iPhone either but to have someone summarily dismiss a phone because of preconceived notions, even when I showed that it could do everything she wanted it to do . . . .?

    Sigh . . . . . .
    For women, SIZE matters.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by trodecke View Post
    This thread has gone waaaaaaay off track from where I started. In any event, there was no anger directed at the person I was demonstrating my Pre to. Instead, there was frustration on my part in that the Pre was able to do everything that she was looking for in a smart phone but she discounted it simply because it wasn't the "in" thing.

    Put another way, if WebOS had come out 2 years earlier and had the type of marketing campaign and public presence that the Android OS has had (culminating in the incredibly successful Droid campaign), I'd wager that this person would have been discounting everything that an Android phone could do simply because it wasn't the "in" thing.

    If you're an Android fan and that's all you want to look at, that's OK. If you're an iOS (still waiting for the C&D from Cisco on that one) fan and that's all you want to look at, that's OK to. If you want a 4+ inch screen and that's what you want to use as a determining factor, I've got no problem with that either. There are a lot of very nice and capable phones on the market today most of which would actually be able to handle pretty much anything that any user would really want a smartphone to do. My frustration in this case stems from the "The Pre is nice but it won't do what I want a smartphone to do" attitude even though I demonstrated that the Pre could do everything she was wanting in a smartphone.
    IMO, there's only a mass of android fans because the iphone is limited to AT&T. In their desire to want something like the iphone, and refusing to go to AT&T, android emerged as the substitute. (The people who want android because it offers more is a minority)

    The only marketing that has worked is Apple's. That is the reference smartphone for the masses. That's how they define a smartphone. Droid's marketing simply said "yeah Droid does that" which is what the masses want to hear.

    So where does Palm fit in here? This lady and many like her don't even know Palm has a new OS. Palm didn't market anything. The look of the Pre doesn't cry out multitouch or great for browsing. Productivity features won't drive sales to the masses like having a calendar. What will drive sales is being like the iphone and showing that its like the iphone.

    A slab would have done Palm wonders. And a better name to indicate that this is new. Treo Touch? Immediately that tells you that it's all touchscreen and like the iphone. Niche form factors like the Pre and Pixi could have came later with better names.

    We've had thread after thread that Palm couldn't be like the iphone. And yet its being like (or bigger than) the iphone that has made the Hero, Evo, Incredible, Nexus, and whatever successful. What people don't seem to understand is that you're not competing with the iphone on carriers like Verizon or Sprint.

    There's still time because android isn't that user friendly. IMO, android doesn't have the user loyalty that the iphone does because people are simply settling for android. Palm needs a solid high specced slab, 2.0, a rebranding and much better focus and they've got chances.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    See.. this doesn't make sense to me (not meaning to offend)... People buy an Android and do the same thing. People jail-brake an iPhone too because they limit the settings and tasking abilities. People install a custom ROM, or add little apps to have to phone do the things its missing right out of the box. I've owned and lived with Android, so I'm talking first-hand experience too. What's the difference in adding a custom ROM to an Android, or even adding little apps that tweak settings... compared to adding Preware and doing the same thing? If people like one OS over another, that's fine... but a comparison like that confuses me.
    Sure they do... but with the Pre... you do all of this and still come up short on feature sets...

    I have a Pre since launch (and still do) but recently replaced my second phone (Hero) with an EVO. Android is not as elegant as webOS with regards to navigation and multitasking but it does it (and in some ways is superior). There are far to many things that the Pre still cannot do. Without Pre central and webOS internals the Pre would be vaporware imo. Palm is moving waaay too slow in this market place.

    This community is by far one of the best homebrew communities I have ever been involved in and I have used/modified/hacked my smart phones for about 5 years now (windows mobile, android, iphone, webos)... maybe longer.

    Some of the other communities are very powerful and come out with great rom's, mods and hacks but nothing I have seen has ever been as organized, user friendly and responsive as this community.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ****-richardson View Post
    hmmm, things webos can do that other phones can't...

    charge wirelessly
    copy content to the phone wirelessly
    run a full featured shell
    play monopoly

    of course then we get into what it does better, like synergy or mobile hotspot
    Those are not limited to the Pre...

    And Monopoly??? There is monopoly on Android (no idea if it has the same feature sets...)
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