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  1.    #1  
    For better or worse, I am one of the minority that has had virtually every real hardware problem facing the Pre. I don't care about scratches, loose sliders are not deal breakers for me, but when things permanently lock up, short out, or fail in some way, I take issue with that.

    So, now, after some hoop jumping on the phone, Pre number 10, a brand spankin' new, in the box, non-refurbed Pre, is on it's way.

    But, did I choose wisely? I feel like there's no reason why I can't be one of those happy users who has never had a serious problem. Like the law of averages is somehow still in my favor. But, to be honest, I don't have any confidence that this will be the one to last. MY personal experience says it isn't.

    Given my history with Sprint, and with this phone, I probably could have argued for an EVO and gotten it. It is, in my opinion, the only phone Sprint has that even comes close to the Pre (even before the Pixi, and certainly before the Moment or the Hero). HTC makes a solid product, it would be a clean break from the Pre, and a jump to something that has a lot more commitment and support.

    I realize this may seem like the wrong forum for such a question, but am I tilting at windmills here? Should I have just cut my losses and learned to deal with an Android device? Really... if YOU had a relationship that fell apart 9 times would you go for number 10?

    Fool me once, shame on you. But, fool me 9 times? Is there such thing as a co-dependent relationship with your cell phone manufacturer?
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  2. #2  
    I say you should argue for an EVO next time. Makes sense.
  3. #3  
    maybe your actually superman and dont know your own strength. Or your just hard on phones and don't realize it. My uncle is like that with everything he touches lol.
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
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  4. #4  
    To have 9 defective Pres in a row is so unlikely as to be statistically impossible.

    Let's say the defect rate is 10%, which is probably so insanely high compared to reality that it's hardly even fair to use it for demonstration purposes. I mean, if they had a 10% defective rate, then they would have gone bankrupt long before HP had a chance to buy them out. None the less, let's run with it for a moment.

    Odds of having a given number of defective pre's in a row based on 10% (insane) failure rate:

    One 1:10 (One in ten)
    Two 1:100
    Three 1:1,000 (At this point, it's time to ask yourself what you're doing wrong)
    Four 1:10,000
    Five 1:100,000
    Six 1:1,000,000 (At this point, it's time to discard all electronics and move to a cave)
    Seven 1:10,000,000
    Eight 1:100,000,000
    Nine 1:1,000,000,000 (You claim to be here)

    That's right. The odds of having 9 legitimately defective Pre smartphones in a row, is roughly 1 in a BILLION!!! Even in I'm wrong by half, it's still impossible because Palm didn't manufacture enough of the things for this to happen to anyone on earth.

    When you consider that the real defect rates are probably well under 5%, the odds become even more astronomical.

    Sorry. You have not had 9 defective Pre's. Some may have been defective, some may have been roughly handled and broken, some may have been returned due to unreasonable expectations. There's obviously no way for me to guess how many of each you had, but it's pretty clear they weren't all defective. We're talking about odds that are comparable to getting struck by lighting on the way home from collecting your lottery winnings. "Technically" possible, but statistically impossible.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    maybe your actually superman and dont know your own strength. Or your just hard on phones and don't realize it. My uncle is like that with everything he touches lol.
    lol lol
  6. #6  
    I would not discount the possibility of a person having ten defective units in a row so easily. First, many notable pundits who are well known Palm fans such as JT at Engadget and the guy from the 404, who's name escapes me, have gone through multiple units. The people are reputable, and predisposed to wanting to love the Pre. These boards are full of similar stories. There have been reports of some vendors complaining about the high failure rate of this phone, etc.

    Second, statistics do not tell the whole story. If a factory had a problem with manufacturing, it would not have manifested on one unit per ten, or whatever the ratio. It would have happened in every unit in that lot. Clearly, QC has been a problem, so many hundreds of units in a single lot could have been defective. From there, a store gets its shipment, all from the defective lot. It is easy to see how a person could get a bad unit and exchange it multiple times for other bad units. In fact, that seems to be the more likely, real-world scenario.

    None of this has any bearing on whether or not the OP is being truthful or careless. I just don't think its quite right to discount it out of hand simply because it is unpleasant. Poor hardware build quality has been an unpleasant reality for the Pre.
  7. #7  
    9 seems like quite a lot but there have been many people here who have had 6-7 already and still have issues . so its not impossible but yeah 9 seems a bit high but probally legit. some people have returned more then 10. . Also I would think by the 6th Pre you would just get something else .

    Ive had every issue also i think but kept my original day one pre. I got crackes. oreo. slider issues. Random shut offs. Door fell off. Screen goes black. Speaker issues. But I didnt want to pay $100 for another as the Pre is just crap hardware with a great OS. I just dealt with it. No matter how much we all love webos ya got to admity the hardware is pretty bad and problematic. Lets hope whatever HP puts out next year will have better hardware.
    Last edited by VaccPalm; 06/13/2010 at 11:24 AM.
  8. #8  
    Eh..we went through about 16 of them. 3 lines though. You'll reach your breaking point though :P And though i liked Sprint's pricing and Any Mobile service, the 4G pricing (as well as their 4G in general) basically told me its time to pull the plug and go elsewhere. Your choices are Evo and the problem prone Pre basically. That's always been the problem with Sprint..limited choices.

    The other two will cap, while Sprint wants to throttle. Sprint reserves right to throttle wireless data speeds?

    AT&T is quite good in my area. Your location matters for any carrier though. iPhone 4, sim cards, keep unlimited plan for now, rollover and a-list. Got all 3 lines there now. Bit more choice as well...Plus Pre, iphone, Nexus, upcoming BB and Galaxy. HSPA+ looks to be faster than Sprint 4G.
  9. staeit's Avatar
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    #9  
    Based upon my own experience with the Pre, I am not surprised you have returned so many. I myself and two of my friends have or have had (I currently still have) a pre, and all of us have had reasons to exchange the pre. There have been several times where I have had an issue that at the time I believed reasonable to return it - the loose battery/dead screen issue affected me frequently, until I fixed it with a piece of paper. That would have been a legit reason to exchange the pre, but the issue is completely solved by that method. My phone got stuck in headset mode for about a day, but was fixed by blowing into the headset jack several times, hasn't happened again. For awhile I thought my phone randomly turned off, but it turns out it's just a WebOS bug, and the phone will respond - you just have to wait between 45 and 90 seconds for it to finish doing whatever it's doing.

    All three of these issues have affected every single pre either me or my friend's pres have had. One of my friends ended up exchanging his pre for something else (after getting three replacements), and my other friend and I have kept our pres. Note that all of us got our pres at different times, and between the three of us there were a total of 8 pres (after replacements were issued) that all had these issues. In summary, these 8 phones all suffered from issues where any normal person would choose to exchange them. For myself, I chose not to exchange them because I only got my Pre in April, by which time most of the issues were very well known, and easy fixes were put in place for them. I'm curious as to the reasons for the replacements the OP needed in each time - I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was purely due to Palm's poor design/manufacturing.

    The fact that this forum's top sticky is "General Pre Complaints" combined with the fact that I have seen countless threads about requiring multiple replacement units leads me to believe that it is more than just bad luck that afflicts pre owners.
  10.    #10  
    Just to set the statistics strait...

    Pre 1: Lasted a few weeks and bricked on one of the software updates. Even got the Sprint tech to try to WebOS Doctor and it didn't save it.

    Pre 2: Terrible Oreo. But did not let that affect me! Overheated on the USB charger and the screen fried (all wacky orange and green).

    Pre 3: Perfect in every way until I dropped it and dented the screen, so I paid my copay like a law abiding Sprint customer. Here's the odd's breaker!

    Pre 4: Came to me with stress cracks under the screen. Didn't know what they were, had Sprint look at it. They advised a swap

    Pre 5: Power button failed, slider short circuited. Got to watch orange and green burst of color on the screen. Very entertaining.

    Pre 6: Locked up while loading music via simple USB drop. Removed battery and it came up to the Palm screen and froze there. Doctored it 4 times. Process ran successfully but still could not get it past the Palm splash screen. Took it to the store the next day, they said they would order one and I said I could not leave without a phone.

    Pre 7: Refurb. Terrible slider (on verge of seperating) terrible oreo effect, very poor touch screen response. Also configured for someone else but given to me by mistake(that alone was a story). Returned same day, insisted upon brand new one.

    Pre 8: Brand new and perfect until last weekend. Stress crack in USB port heading towards screen. Since I am very careful with the USB, it should never have happened.

    Pre 9: Just got it Friday. Refurb. Bad microphone (have to yell to be heard), slider actually starts to come off track and sticks in slightly scissored position during slide action, cannot maintain call connection, even with 5 bars and in areas with high coverage. Heats to burning hot whenever in use (no patches, no overclocking no nothing).

    Pre 10: On the way

    So, to be fair, one of the last 9 was my fault, so I've only had 8 Pre's that have failed.

    In all the years I've had mobile phones, I have always babied them like that egg you carry for a week in health class. I am also very technical (10 years as an IT consultant) so I never make a decision from a standpoint of ignorance or unrealistic expectations (unless those expectations are, that the product should actually be able to work, and perform as promised, which, in itself can be considered unrealistic when it comes to tech).

    VaccPalm had a great comment, about getting something else by the 6th Pre. And I would totally agree, except I see the Pre running WebOS as so far superior to anything that has existed, that anything else would be a stoneage step back. WinMo, Android, PalmOS Garnet, Blackberry, even the iPhone if I wanted to leave Sprint (OK, MAYBE the iPhone). None compare. Sprint currently offers the Palm Pixi and the Samsung Moment as alternate replacements for the Pre. The moment doesn't even start to measure up. Even the Palm Pixi, which is very slick and sexy and runs WEB OS, is missing important features and has none of the community support that the Pre does. Also, considering all the time and money I have invested in the Pre, and the fact that the Pixi started out $100 cheaper and everyone is now giving them away, I would be insulted if they didn't offer me a significant credit to my account PLUS the Pixi in order to accept it.

    So, to me, the EVO is the only phone that comes close. And, I see the 4G, the 8 Mp camera and the HD recording among other features, as only partially making up for the huge size and the inferiority of Android (real multi-tasking makes it)

    Which is why I just want a Pre that works. Enough of YOU have them. If you didn't, there wouldn't be such questions about why I have had so much trouble. So, why not ME?

    But, again, my experience speaks against the likelyhood that I will ever meet with long term success with the Pre, even though I really want to. And my energy level for fighting the battle is pretty much gone. If number 10 doesn't take me as long as I want it to (at least until the warranty runs out next June), I'm on to something else. If I end up having to use my NC pricing upgrade and sign a new contract, it definitely won't be on another Pre.
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Pre 7: Refurb. Terrible slider (on verge of seperating) terrible oreo effect, very poor touch screen response. Also configured for someone else but given to me by mistake(that alone was a story). Returned same day, insisted upon brand new one.

    Please explain how it was configured for someone else?
    Please hit the thanks button if I helped you

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  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    Just to set the statistics strait...

    Pre 1: Lasted a few weeks and bricked on one of the software updates. Even got the Sprint tech to try to WebOS Doctor and it didn't save it.

    Pre 2: Terrible Oreo. But did not let that affect me! Overheated on the USB charger and the screen fried (all wacky orange and green).

    Pre 3: Perfect in every way until I dropped it and dented the screen, so I paid my copay like a law abiding Sprint customer. Here's the odd's breaker!

    Pre 4: Came to me with stress cracks under the screen. Didn't know what they were, had Sprint look at it. They advised a swap

    Pre 5: Power button failed, slider short circuited. Got to watch orange and green burst of color on the screen. Very entertaining.

    Pre 6: Locked up while loading music via simple USB drop. Removed battery and it came up to the Palm screen and froze there. Doctored it 4 times. Process ran successfully but still could not get it past the Palm splash screen. Took it to the store the next day, they said they would order one and I said I could not leave without a phone.

    Pre 7: Refurb. Terrible slider (on verge of seperating) terrible oreo effect, very poor touch screen response. Also configured for someone else but given to me by mistake(that alone was a story). Returned same day, insisted upon brand new one.

    Pre 8: Brand new and perfect until last weekend. Stress crack in USB port heading towards screen. Since I am very careful with the USB, it should never have happened.

    Pre 9: Just got it Friday. Refurb. Bad microphone (have to yell to be heard), slider actually starts to come off track and sticks in slightly scissored position during slide action, cannot maintain call connection, even with 5 bars and in areas with high coverage. Heats to burning hot whenever in use (no patches, no overclocking no nothing).

    Pre 10: On the way

    So, to be fair, one of the last 9 was my fault, so I've only had 8 Pre's that have failed.

    In all the years I've had mobile phones, I have always babied them like that egg you carry for a week in health class. I am also very technical (10 years as an IT consultant) so I never make a decision from a standpoint of ignorance or unrealistic expectations (unless those expectations are, that the product should actually be able to work, and perform as promised, which, in itself can be considered unrealistic when it comes to tech).

    VaccPalm had a great comment, about getting something else by the 6th Pre. And I would totally agree, except I see the Pre running WebOS as so far superior to anything that has existed, that anything else would be a stoneage step back. WinMo, Android, PalmOS Garnet, Blackberry, even the iPhone if I wanted to leave Sprint (OK, MAYBE the iPhone). None compare. Sprint currently offers the Palm Pixi and the Samsung Moment as alternate replacements for the Pre. The moment doesn't even start to measure up. Even the Palm Pixi, which is very slick and sexy and runs WEB OS, is missing important features and has none of the community support that the Pre does. Also, considering all the time and money I have invested in the Pre, and the fact that the Pixi started out $100 cheaper and everyone is now giving them away, I would be insulted if they didn't offer me a significant credit to my account PLUS the Pixi in order to accept it.

    So, to me, the EVO is the only phone that comes close. And, I see the 4G, the 8 Mp camera and the HD recording among other features, as only partially making up for the huge size and the inferiority of Android (real multi-tasking makes it)

    Which is why I just want a Pre that works. Enough of YOU have them. If you didn't, there wouldn't be such questions about why I have had so much trouble. So, why not ME?

    But, again, my experience speaks against the likelyhood that I will ever meet with long term success with the Pre, even though I really want to. And my energy level for fighting the battle is pretty much gone. If number 10 doesn't take me as long as I want it to (at least until the warranty runs out next June), I'm on to something else. If I end up having to use my NC pricing upgrade and sign a new contract, it definitely won't be on another Pre.
    WOW!!! Dang, after my third Pixi broke, I left without hesitation. Your love for webos is strong.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2sslow View Post
    Please explain how it was configured for someone else?
    Honestly, I thought that was rather self explanatory. It's a phone that was configured in the system for someone else, but handed to me by mistake.

    But, since you ask, the long story is...

    I went in with a bricked Pre. After several hours waiting, they told me they would have to order me a refurb and it would be a few days. I told them that wasn't acceptable, I could not go even a day without a phone, and needed to leave that day with one. So they gave me one. One that had been set up in the system for someone else, unbeknownst to me. Since my phone number doesn't show up unless I go looking for it, I assumed it was my phone. But, several hours, several odd phone calls, and one visit to voicemail later, and I had figured out it wasn't my phone. Then the Sprint store kept calling to tell me they had made an error, but could not maintain a connection long enough to talk, because the connection quality was bad. Then the lady who was supposed to get that phone called to try to yell at me. I had already figured out it was a badly put together refurb, so I knew it would need replacing at some point, I just hadn't planned to go back that day.

    To add insult to injury, I couldn't get my calendar down, so I was missing my work schedule. By the time it came down, I realized I was nearly late for an appointment, which messed up my picking up my wife from HER job. She would now need to stay at work from 5-9pm until I could get there. I was trying to resolve it with her, when the phone I was using cut out. They SHUT OFF THE SERVICE TO THE ONE I WAS USING! I only have a cell for home and work use, so I am without communication and my wife is stuck at work. I realized that I could still call Sprint Customer Service, so I did, and asked them to call my wife for me. The quick thinking rep conferenced us in, and we resolved our transportation issue. But, I was beside myself with anger.

    When I got to the store that night, my situation was the talk of the store. The manager apologized, said they had given the other woman another phone, which was why I lost my service connection, and that I could keep that one I had. I told them no, it's a piece of crap. They then offered me a refurbed Pixi or Samsung Moment, both of which I refused because they aren't nearly as good as the Pre (OK the Pixi is NEARLY as good but not good enough). I asked for a brand new, out of the box Pre and they gave it to me.

    Then, the next day, I discovered that, while I was unreachable for the afternoon and evening, because I had someone else's phone, I lost a $1200 piece of business, because a nervous customer was afraid of the fact that she couldn't reach me in one afternoon, and backed out of our deal.

    So... a phone configured for someone else cost me even more time, more aggravation, and enough money to pay most of my Sprint bill for the year.

    Hope this makes for as good a story as I said it would.

    Thanks!
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  14.    #14  
    Still quite a bit. Honestly, I think all cell phone companies suck and they all have their limitations. At the end of the day, they only leverage you have is your relationship with them After 12 plus years with Sprint, and knowing, with all my discounts, that it would cost me twice as much to go to AT&T or Verizon, plus the cost of new hardware (for 4 lines), I am just not willing to make the leap. Also, there are plenty who consider AT&T voice quality to be dubious in our area, and the data speeds are still not nearly what CDMA can offer.

    So, Sprint with EVO it is, if Pre number 10 doesn't last. Hopefully, it will last long enough for the pricing on the EVO to come down and for it to make it onto the alternative replacement list for Pre owners. That will make it easier for me to make the switch, rather than having to argue for it. Also, it will give me time to figure out if EVO is a hardware problem child.

    Thanks to all for their input.

    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Eh..we went through about 16 of them. 3 lines though. You'll reach your breaking point though :P And though i liked Sprint's pricing and Any Mobile service, the 4G pricing (as well as their 4G in general) basically told me its time to pull the plug and go elsewhere. Your choices are Evo and the problem prone Pre basically. That's always been the problem with Sprint..limited choices.

    The other two will cap, while Sprint wants to throttle. Sprint reserves right to throttle wireless data speeds?

    AT&T is quite good in my area. Your location matters for any carrier though. iPhone 4, sim cards, keep unlimited plan for now, rollover and a-list. Got all 3 lines there now. Bit more choice as well...Plus Pre, iphone, Nexus, upcoming BB and Galaxy. HSPA+ looks to be faster than Sprint 4G.
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  15. #15  
    wow!, just wow! . I'm an iphone user who is getting a little tired of the iphone platform and apple's walled garden but that's for another thread but having owned 4 iphones (mine and my wife's) since the inception of that phone I have never had one issue hardware wise with those phones. I cant believe you have had so many defective phones ! The one thing keeping me from jumping on the pre are the stories like yours and I know some users have only had one pre and it's been solid but unfortunately I hear comments like yours and it keeps me at bay. Im going to wait and see whatever hp/palm have in store next as far as hardware and build quality go. I hope they come out with a new phone soon showing a marked improvement in build quality.

    Your definitely a trooper and palm should send you a t-shirt or something similar for being so understanding.

    Take care and I hope you have better luck with #10.
    Cheers. Doug D
  16. #16  
    My first Pre is over a year old now, I know I chose wisely. Never baby my phone, just use it like I used my previous phones.
  17. #17  
    I want one of the at&t ones.. Apperently palm got it right... Either that or their hasn't been enough units sold.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    To have 9 defective Pres in a row is so unlikely as to be statistically impossible.

    Let's say the defect rate is 10%, which is probably so insanely high compared to reality that it's hardly even fair to use it for demonstration purposes. I mean, if they had a 10% defective rate, then they would have gone bankrupt long before HP had a chance to buy them out. None the less, let's run with it for a moment.

    Odds of having a given number of defective pre's in a row based on 10% (insane) failure rate:

    One 1:10 (One in ten)
    Two 1:100
    Three 1:1,000 (At this point, it's time to ask yourself what you're doing wrong)
    Four 1:10,000
    Five 1:100,000
    Six 1:1,000,000 (At this point, it's time to discard all electronics and move to a cave)
    Seven 1:10,000,000
    Eight 1:100,000,000
    Nine 1:1,000,000,000 (You claim to be here)

    That's right. The odds of having 9 legitimately defective Pre smartphones in a row, is roughly 1 in a BILLION!!! Even in I'm wrong by half, it's still impossible because Palm didn't manufacture enough of the things for this to happen to anyone on earth.

    When you consider that the real defect rates are probably well under 5%, the odds become even more astronomical.

    Sorry. You have not had 9 defective Pre's. Some may have been defective, some may have been roughly handled and broken, some may have been returned due to unreasonable expectations. There's obviously no way for me to guess how many of each you had, but it's pretty clear they weren't all defective. We're talking about odds that are comparable to getting struck by lighting on the way home from collecting your lottery winnings. "Technically" possible, but statistically impossible.
    He could always get an EVO and possibly get one with the screen separating from the phone as engaget just found out many EVO owners are having.. guess hardware isn't as great as everyone thought.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2sslow View Post
    Please explain how it was configured for someone else?
    That happened to me as well! haha...another Pre user i guess was having their phone looked at or something they gave me the wrong one.

    Sprint did right though, apologize a bunch of times, gave me $100 off on my bill and gave me a brand new in the box Pre (the one i am using now and haven't had any funky issues with ).
  20. #20  
    I'm on Pre 6. Never had a phone replaced in my 12+ yrs w/ Sprint. I take that back - my 1st Treo crashed after an update was pushed, right after release. I'm super careful w/ my phones, and have kept many a Pre w/ issues that weren't deal breakers, till issues that WERE popped up. I'm just disappointed. Still devoted to WebOS, just disappointed. Why would someone like ME have all these issues? It isn't even statistically likely, as an earlier poster pointed out. If he were me, his statistics would likely not add up. Why? I'm clueless. Also, I'm not a statistician (sp?) ...just a disappointed Pre devotee.
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