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  1.    #1  
    I'm comparing operating systems... I did not make that clear on orig post...
    Apple can no longer can claim to be great innovators in the smartphone market. They are in a play it safe mode in my opinion.
    iphone fans are drooling over features WEBOS had at launch... a year ago.

    techcrunch.com/2010/06/07/pandora-background-iphone/#idc-cover]Pandora Working In The Background On iPhone 4. Awesome.

    Android fans are claiming to have multitasking for months now... as if to brag. When i have enjoyed true multitasking on my pre... for over a year now. Really?
    New Iphone os features[*]Background audio (think Pandora)... yeah... been showing that off for ages.[*]Background location data, both with live GPS for backgrounded turn-by-turn[*]User-defined wallpaper - Themes - nuff said[*]Enhanced Mail. You can have a merged inbox view, switch between inboxes quickly, and sync to more than one Exchange account.[*]# Local notifications. Like push notifications, but sends a notification straight from the app without needing a push notification server, perfect for an alarm, for instance.[*]# Fast app switching. Saves the state of an app and resumes it from where you left off, without dwelling in memory. Multitasking lite- i will carry an extra battery for thos times i leave civilization, and my car/charger...
    They are playing catchup to webos, while Palm has had a year to innovate further and improve. Anyone have any doubts that the next Webos phone is going to raise the bar? but this time, with lots of marketing $$$ and Hp scale.
    Im confident and Patient... I will be Proud to purchase the next WEBOS phone... Take your time and get it right. KNOCK them on their ***.
    Last edited by clutch1222; 06/11/2010 at 06:24 AM. Reason: streamline
  2. #2  
    I really don't think so. Hardware wise iphone 4 is the new standard while software is an even trade since both good n bads cancel each other out. I am an apple hater n love my pre but if iphone 4 came to sprint, it'd be GOODBYE to webos with a smile.
  3. Makinola's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by jyaden24 View Post
    I really don't think so. Hardware wise iphone 4 is the new standard while software is an even trade since both good n bads cancel each other out. I am an apple hater n love my pre but if iphone 4 came to sprint, it'd be GOODBYE to webos with a smile.
    I also second that motion. Webos i view is far way better than Iphone with software, but just gotta love the hardware with the processing power :/ in the end Webos has what it takes to beat Iphone os any day, just hoping the new backing of Hp makes it possible
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Apple can no longer can claim to be great innovators in the smartphone market.

    Im confident and Patient... let the sheep buy the inferior phones.... I will be Proud to purchase the next WEBOS phone... Christmas time sounds like a good time to me. Take your time and get it right. KNOCK them on their ***.
    It's good to stand up for what you believe in, and I believe in the same thing as you do (WebOS) - but don't assume that the iPhone 4 is "inferior". Their hardware implementation, build quality and durability is second to none. The iPhone 4 hardware specs has set the pace for the next two years in terms of smartphones - particularly in terms of the screen quality and resolution, processor and the genius incorporation of the antenna into the actual structure of the device.

    I'm no lover of Apple, but I respect them and I have an objective understanding of how their products compare to their competitors - keep in mind that if the iPhone never existed, the smartphone market would be years behind what it is today. That's why Apple is still the market leader - they set the standard for the entire industry.

    You can still hate them, but hate them with respect.
  5. #5  
    As a WebOS diehard, I applaud Apple for IPhone 4. They've set the bar even higher. Hopefully, this will serve to encourage even more improvement in the next smart phone product from Palm.
  6.    #6  
    I appreciate the comments and respect that apple is due. I was focusing on software,not hardware. Evo is sold out...the hardware on evo is impressive as well. Some argue better than iphone. With new htc phones coming out constantly...i don't see innovation in hardware as a big win for apple. I see webos as having a clear advantage and apple playing catchup.
    palm already has the better OS... They are working on the next harrdware devices... So, with all due respect, I give the innovation to palm and webos. I believe palm patented the front facing camara in 2002. That amazing antenna on new iphone is impresive, but if your on a reliable network...not so important. I am not trying to hate on apple, just honestly think they have lost their title as innovators in the smartphone market. iwe shall see with palms next hardware release... If it raises bar even further. Also, hp's focus on the future of webos and ubiquitous computing...sounds like a leader to me.
    thanks for the feedback... I enjoyed reading the commnets and respect opinions..
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    I appreciate the comments and respect that apple is due. I was focusing on software,not hardware. Evo is sold out...the hardware on evo is impressive as well. Some argue better than iphone. With new htc phones coming out constantly...i don't see innovation in hardware as a big win for apple. I see webos as having a clear advantage and apple playing catchup.
    palm already has the better OS... They are working on the next harrdware devices... So, with all due respect, I give the innovation to palm and webos. I believe palm patented the front facing camara in 2002. That amazing antenna on new iphone is impresive, but if your on a reliable network...not so important. I am not trying to hate on apple, just honestly think they have lost their title as innovators in the smartphone market. iwe shall see with palms next hardware release... If it raises bar even further. Also, hp's focus on the future of webos and ubiquitous computing...sounds like a leader to me.
    thanks for the feedback... I enjoyed reading the commnets and respect opinions..
    Webos is having a clear advantage and apple playing catchup???? Wow, I understand you love your WebOS. And I like it in some degree, I have Pre Plus too. However, only advantage WebOS over Iphone is that it's available on all carrier. But WebOS has long way to go, matter of fact, we are barely surviving in this smartphone market rather you like it or not. And HP got more money to throw around but we have to wait and see how exactly HP will take this product to the next lvl. I've seen plenty of time some big company take over the small one and break it all apart. I am just afraid that HP's vision is not on the same page as Palm.
  8.    #8  
    thanks for your response. It sounds like you are comparing phones. I am not. There is no question that the year old pre is no comparison for the iphone 4. I am comparing an updated year old release of webos against iphone 4.0 os. Iphone 4.0 added the features I mentioned above on it's lateset os. Webos has had those features at launch a year ago. Hence ,im claiming they are catching up. Other than folders, I see nothing in iphone 4.0 software that is new or exciting. Winner, webos
    when the next palm phone is released, then we can compare the latest webos os and the latest hardware against iphone 4.0. It looks like webos provided better innovation at launch last year... And apple just caught up with some of it. That is my point. Iphone fans are raving over these new features and claiming iphone superiority... And I don't see it. Gr8 quality hardware... But the updated iphone 4.0 os has only caught up to webos... And has not surpassed it. My opinion... If anyone wants to claim that iphone 4.0 os has a leg up on webos perfomance ( not hardware related) please contribute. Thanks!
    when
  9. #9  
    For me it comes down to this:

    webos > iOS or whatever its called
    iphone hardware > Pre2 currently
    iphone apps > webos apps
    iphone brand and marketing >> Palm brand and marketing
    Pre on Sprint, ATT, Verizon > ATT w/horrible data plans

    HPalm needs to release new hardware and drastically accelerate the developer community to commit to webos. Stability is a good thing and hopefully the merger with HP will help things...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  10. #10  
    To try and separate the hardware from the software in the iPhone for the purposes of comparison is futile and completely misses the point. You cannot make an iPhone competitor by copying the interface and slapping in on some cheap parts from an Asian KIRF manufacturer. The iPhone is an integrated experience. Its hardware is meaningless without the software; the same is true in reverse. The multi-touch implementation that Apple uses is not a stand alone experience. It has meaning in the context of the best, most responsive touchscreen in the industry, as test after test shows. The speed of the interface is directly tied to finely tuned software working with custom silicon. Copying multi-touch and slapping it on similarly specced hardware does not an iPhone experience, equal.

    Trying to break down the iPhone's unprecedented success and popularity by examining the individual components is like the blind men trying to describe an elephant one part at a time. You will never understand what you are up against with that approach, let alone, come up with something that will best it as a complete package.

    This is the lesson that Palm, RIM, WM, Nokia, and Google need to learn from Apple: It is not about better parts; it is about the best integrated experience.
  11.    #11  
    I do agree that the iphone experience as a whole is great. I didn't say that palm pre was better than iphone. I can only comment on the next palm webos phone overall experience vs iphone 4g once that new palm phone is released
    both palm and apple handle software and hardware... So they are ahead of android hype phones in that regard.
    the point I am making is that webos was more of an innovative operating system than iphone 3gs. Iphone 4.0 has released and has only caught up to webos current version. It will remain to be seen if palm, with hp resources, will integrate the better webos on iphone caliber hardware... And give consumers a better, more innovative product. As of today, I agree with you 100%, iphone has the better overall integrated product and remain the standard for "quality" to match. But not innovation. My opinion...only time will tell if all of this silence from palm on release of next phone will prove to be the new overall standard to match. Thanks!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurav View Post
    For me it comes down to this:

    webos > iOS or whatever its called
    iphone hardware > Pre2 currently
    iphone apps > webos apps
    iphone brand and marketing >> Palm brand and marketing
    Pre on Sprint, ATT, Verizon > ATT w/horrible data plans

    HPalm needs to release new hardware and drastically accelerate the developer community to commit to webos. Stability is a good thing and hopefully the merger with HP will help things...
    WebOS potential > iOS
    Current state of OS, iOS > WebOS, because iOS is much more stable and polished and WebOS is buggy and lack of feature. We can talk all day how HP might bring in the greatest product but current state, doesn't matter how much you love webOS, we are on beta stage. Look how many patches that we have to install on top of our phone to make it half usable?

    So let me put it this way, almost same as yours,
    webos < iOS for currently state, iOS is 4.0 and webOS is only 1.4.1.1, long way to go to catch up with iPhone OS
    iphone hardware >>> Pre2 , I used 3 >'s because we are really that far behind
    iphone apps >>>>>>>>>>> webos apps , don't even have to explain
    iphone brand and marketing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palm brand and marketing, even if you hate Steve Job, but he is genius in this department or whoever work for him
    Pre on Sprint, ATT, Verizon >>> ATT w/horrible data plans, I wouldn't say horrible data plan because my friend is very excited about his $5 saving. He doesn't even use more than 1 gig per month and he uses his Sirus streaming radio at work.
  13.    #13  
    wow.. An overwhelming support for iphone 4.0.
    I contribute much of the bugs of current webos to hardware. I do have pre not pre plus... But I still think with better hardware my existing webos 1.4.1.1 would be much less buggy. Overclocking made a huge diff for my pre... Etc.
    well. I guess no one is going to acknowledge that the features iphone just added to iphone 4.0 have been on webos for over a year. Notifications, multitasking, integrated email etc. Also, palm is still an independent company doing dev camps .lets see how that changes when hp webos dev camps are held. Take a look at todays post with hp head techie... Looks like they have bih plans, huge scale, deep pockets..and sound very excited about webos.
    they paid 1.1 billion for it... Must be pretty innovative. I see webos on smartphones being more innovative than iphone is currently...with a much bigger demand in the biz world. The future is webos... My opinion.
    thanks again for opinions and comments.
  14. #14  
    It doesn't matter what features you have or don't have, it's how it's delivered.. which Palm did a terrible job at. WebOS is great, and has a lot of great features, but it still feels immature due to it being buggy and sluggish.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    I'm comparing operating systems... I did not make that clear on orig post...
    Apple can no longer can claim to be great innovators in the smartphone market. They are in a play it safe mode in my opinion.
    iphone fans are drooling over features WEBOS had at launch... a year ago.

    techcrunch.com/2010/06/07/pandora-background-iphone/#idc-cover]Pandora Working In The Background On iPhone 4. Awesome.

    Android fans are claiming to have multitasking for months now... as if to brag. When i have enjoyed true multitasking on my pre... for over a year now. Really?
    New Iphone os features[*]Background audio (think Pandora)... yeah... been showing that off for ages.[*]Background location data, both with live GPS for backgrounded turn-by-turn[*]User-defined wallpaper - Themes - nuff said[*]Enhanced Mail. You can have a merged inbox view, switch between inboxes quickly, and sync to more than one Exchange account.[*]# Local notifications. Like push notifications, but sends a notification straight from the app without needing a push notification server, perfect for an alarm, for instance.[*]# Fast app switching. Saves the state of an app and resumes it from where you left off, without dwelling in memory. Multitasking lite- i will carry an extra battery for thos times i leave civilization, and my car/charger...
    They are playing catchup to webos, while Palm has had a year to innovate further and improve. Anyone have any doubts that the next Webos phone is going to raise the bar? but this time, with lots of marketing $$$ and Hp scale.
    Im confident and Patient... let the sheep buy the inferior phones.... I will be Proud to purchase the next WEBOS phone... Christmas time sounds like a good time to me. Take your time and get it right. KNOCK them on their ***.
    I look at it this way. They are all headed to the same place but each have different ways to get there and each have some features that the others will pick up later.

    I think we all have our ideal smartphone in mind. All of the players shape this reference smartphone which is basically one with all the features we covet on each platform. Apple has influenced us to think we need certain features, Palm has, Android has.

    The best we can do as consumers is take a snapshot at a certain time and choose our phone wisely based on our needs, wants, or whatever strikes you. Each year, that should be harder to do as they near the destination of being roughly the same with more features in common.

    Right now, my choice is iOS on their new hardware coming out. There was a battle going on for my choice though but its over for now and for at least a year or more. Palm Pre battled for my business but came up short. Android was considered. But i've moved everyone in my family to AT&T and decided to stick with iphone.

    The OP mentioned features that Apple is just now adding. I can sit and list features that Apple already has that webOS doesn't and that's just one part of the puzzle. It's just how things are. Buy what suits you. Carrier, monthly price, apps, ecosystem, ways to modify or jailbreak..they all play a part in the comparison in addition to features & hardware.

    If AT&T sucks for you but is good for me, then we're already looking at things differently. I like a crisper, more vibrant, screen, you like a bigger screen. And it goes on. It's no wonder then that there is so much disagreement out here on what is "best".
  16. urkel's Avatar
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    #16  
    The "OS Experience" has always been overrated on computers and it's even more overrated on mobile.

    How much time do you think you actually live within the OS vs within a specific app? Yes, the lack of multitasking, copy/paste or elegant notifications sucked for iPhone users. But during those 3years they did not make the iPhone overall experience suck because in the end then, despite these "limitations", you've Always been able to accomplish more on the iPhone. It wasn't always pretty but it got done.

    I get it, we're trying to prove WebOS itself is better than iOS. Sure, it got more right on day 1 in comparison. But it's not about how much a product does x number of days after launch, it's about how much it does today.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    The "OS Experience" has always been overrated on computers and it's even more overrated on mobile.

    How much time do you think you actually live within the OS vs within a specific app? Yes, the lack of multitasking, copy/paste or elegant notifications sucked for iPhone users. But during those 3years they did not make the iPhone overall experience suck because in the end then, despite these "limitations", you've Always been able to accomplish more on the iPhone. It wasn't always pretty but it got done.

    I get it, we're trying to prove WebOS itself is better than iOS. Sure, it got more right on day 1 in comparison. But it's not about how much a product does x number of days after launch, it's about how much it does today.
    I'm going to disagree, because I think the UI/OS experience matters much more on a smartphone.

    Because you only have 3-4 inches of screen real estate and a small QWERTY, you need the OS/UI to handle things and present information to you as efficiently as possible.

    You can certainly accomplish more with most given tasks on an iPhone, as long as you are doing that one specific task and nothing else. But when you are being bombarded with IMs or SMS messages in the midst of moving between Webpages while apps do things in the background...the iPhone interface fails. It wasn't built to operate that way, and it's clear given how elegant and easy the rest of the OS is versus the clunky notifications and task switching. That no one thought to put in a status bar or notifications shade from day one just shows it wasn't part of the original scope of the device. That's fine.

    WebOS and Android are bolting-on media and gaming functions that weren't part of their original scope. They are equally clunky.

    None of the OSes are better, per se, but they are each better at specific things. But for me - and many here - managing information in an efficient manner where the OS does a lot of the work for you is paramount, and that is and will continue to be a weakness of iOS. You'd have to redesign the UI and the hardware to change that. Why bother when the majority of users are willing to accept the current implementation?
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I look at it this way. They are all headed to the same place but each have different ways to get there and each have some features that the others will pick up later.

    I think we all have our ideal smartphone in mind. All of the players shape this reference smartphone which is basically one with all the features we covet on each platform. Apple has influenced us to think we need certain features, Palm has, Android has.

    The best we can do as consumers is take a snapshot at a certain time and choose our phone wisely based on our needs, wants, or whatever strikes you. Each year, that should be harder to do as they near the destination of being roughly the same with more features in common.

    Right now, my choice is iOS on their new hardware coming out. There was a battle going on for my choice though but its over for now and for at least a year or more. Palm Pre battled for my business but came up short. Android was considered. But i've moved everyone in my family to AT&T and decided to stick with iphone.

    The OP mentioned features that Apple is just now adding. I can sit and list features that Apple already has that webOS doesn't and that's just one part of the puzzle. It's just how things are. Buy what suits you. Carrier, monthly price, apps, ecosystem, ways to modify or jailbreak..they all play a part in the comparison in addition to features & hardware.

    If AT&T sucks for you but is good for me, then we're already looking at things differently. I like a crisper, more vibrant, screen, you like a bigger screen. And it goes on. It's no wonder then that there is so much disagreement out here on what is "best".
    Very well stated.
    I think the major , obvious difference between the Apple and Palm was that Apple had the $$$ to launch top quality hardware and a polished device. Palm did not. Palm had a vision for a better OS, but did not have the top $$$ to execute it on polished hardware/software, marketing etc.. So they put out the pre in hopes that it would do well and then generate cash flow to launch a more polished phone down the road.
    It is a matter of choice, and I dont think anyone here would blame you for making iphone as a choice. I do think that most here believe in Palms vision for webos... and accept the bugs in current model due to the financial state of Palm. Now that HP has purchased Palm... only time will tell what that big $$$ and resource support will deliver.
    Thanks again for an excellent Post!
    clutch1222 is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Very well stated.
    I think the major , obvious difference between the Apple and Palm was that Apple had the $$$ to launch top quality hardware and a polished device. Palm did not. Palm had a vision for a better OS, but did not have the top $$$ to execute it on polished hardware/software, marketing etc.. So they put out the pre in hopes that it would do well and then generate cash flow to launch a more polished phone down the road.
    It is a matter of choice, and I dont think anyone here would blame you for making iphone as a choice. I do think that most here believe in Palms vision for webos... and accept the bugs in current model due to the financial state of Palm. Now that HP has purchased Palm... only time will tell what that big $$$ and resource support will deliver.
    Thanks again for an excellent Post!
    clutch1222 is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message
    Clutch, I agreed 100%. I just hope that HP keep currently Palm developers and add some of their good developers to keep Palm's vision going. And please god HP to spend some money on QA department too! Important thing is, HP's money and hope they let Palm's too focus on the vision they had with WebOS.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm going to disagree, because I think the UI/OS experience matters much more on a smartphone.

    Because you only have 3-4 inches of screen real estate and a small QWERTY, you need the OS/UI to handle things and present information to you as efficiently as possible.

    You can certainly accomplish more with most given tasks on an iPhone, as long as you are doing that one specific task and nothing else. But when you are being bombarded with IMs or SMS messages in the midst of moving between Webpages while apps do things in the background...the iPhone interface fails. It wasn't built to operate that way, and it's clear given how elegant and easy the rest of the OS is versus the clunky notifications and task switching. That no one thought to put in a status bar or notifications shade from day one just shows it wasn't part of the original scope of the device. That's fine.

    WebOS and Android are bolting-on media and gaming functions that weren't part of their original scope. They are equally clunky.

    None of the OSes are better, per se, but they are each better at specific things. But for me - and many here - managing information in an efficient manner where the OS does a lot of the work for you is paramount, and that is and will continue to be a weakness of iOS. You'd have to redesign the UI and the hardware to change that. Why bother when the majority of users are willing to accept the current implementation?
    Thank you for an excellent post. Webos vs Iphone 4.0 0s grabs more attention. all of the smartphone OS have the pro's and con's. I think WEBOS is better for me for the reasons you described. The major difference is the respect that android , iphone OS's get in comparison to WEBOS. I am all about raising awarness on quality products. WEBOS is a under hyped, overlooked os that needs more respect and recognition in the tech community. I found it interesting the calls of respect for apple iphone on this thread... when so many in the tech community disrespect WEBOS.
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