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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Thank you for an excellent post. Webos vs Iphone 4.0 0s grabs more attention. all of the smartphone OS have the pro's and con's. I think WEBOS is better for me for the reasons you described. The major difference is the respect that android , iphone OS's get in comparison to WEBOS. I am all about raising awarness on quality products. WEBOS is a under hyped, overlooked os that needs more respect and recognition in the tech community. I found it interesting the calls of respect for apple iphone on this thread... when so many in the tech community disrespect WEBOS.
    I think they still respect WebOS in tech community. That's why when Iphone4 announced, they made a chart with Iphone4, EVO, Droid Incredible and Pre. They could've easy take out Pre phone but they are still comparing other devices with WebOS, I think that's respect they still have.

    I truely believe we are still in the game even though our market share is only like 3%. However, we are fading out really fast. I really hope that within next couple of months, I like to hear from HP/Palm for their future plan atleast. Like WebOS 2.0 and new device.
  2. urkel's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    wow.. An overwhelming support for iphone 4.0.
    I contribute much of the bugs of current webos to hardware. I do have pre not pre plus... But I still think with better hardware my existing webos 1.4.1.1 would be much less buggy. Overclocking made a huge diff for my pre... Etc.
    well. I guess no one is going to acknowledge that the features iphone just added to iphone 4.0 have been on webos for over a year. Notifications, multitasking, integrated email etc
    Is it really about iOS support? Or is it recognition that Apple is nurturing it's product while WebOS is not. You have such a strong emphasis on how much Palm got right from the start, but how much does that really matter? If someones first iPhone experience is the iPhone 4 then they wont even know that Copy/Paste took 2yrs to get right or that multitasking is 3yrs late. Its not about who got it first, its about whether or not it exists on the product you actually WANT to buy. And that leads right into dandbj13's great point:

    "It is not about better parts; it is about the best integrated experience."

    You simply can not separate the OS from the Hardware because neither work without the other. So just because we can all imagine the awesomeness of WebOS on a tablet or EVO hardware doesn't mean it will actually be that awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    Take a look at todays post with hp head techie... Looks like they have bih plans, huge scale, deep pockets..and sound very excited about webos.
    they paid 1.1 billion for it... Must be pretty innovative. I see webos on smartphones being more innovative than iphone is currently...with a much bigger demand in the biz world. The future is webos...
    Your faith in HP is nice, but don't forget that this is the company that bought Voodoo, who was settled within a distinct niche, and then pulled them right out of it.

    Based on HP's history then there's nothing to indicate that WebOS phones will be any more than an afterthought IF their undisclosed gameplan is focused more on tablets and printers. HP has proven with Compaq (both computers and PDA's) that they are perfectly happy acquiring a company and tossing an outdated and unchanged product into the market just to say "yeah, we do those too, but have you seen our new badass printers?"
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...clip....But when you are being bombarded with IMs or SMS messages in the midst of moving between Webpages while apps do things in the background...the iPhone interface fails. It wasn't built to operate that way, and it's clear given how elegant and easy the rest of the OS is versus the clunky notifications and task switching. That no one thought to put in a status bar or notifications shade from day one just shows it wasn't part of the original scope of the device. That's fine.

    ...clip...
    None of the OSes are better, per se, but they are each better at specific things. But for me - and many here - managing information in an efficient manner where the OS does a lot of the work for you is paramount, and that is and will continue to be a weakness of iOS. You'd have to redesign the UI and the hardware to change that.
    This to me was a very helpful post, and dead on to the OP question.

    He's not asking what phone is better guys.
    Just think about the UI and the OS. Flip flop the hardware for a moment, think of WebOs on the same specs as the iphone4.

    For me, I'm an active, mainly business guy.
    All the 'Neat/Cool' things the iOS does isn't what I necessarily need.

    That said; I'm leaning away from WebOs because neither of the devices it's on do it for me.
  4. #24  
    Maybe the Title should of been:
    'WebOS Vs iOS4'
  5. #25  
    I don't even think yoi can compare the 2. Or it's not fair to webOS seeing that it's only not even @ 2.0, while ios is @ 4.0...webOS has an impressive line of features, but I feel apps play a crucial part of the software. It's all about being able to customizing the experience and ui. Apple has this to a science. Where webOS is still fine tuning the formula. Still love my pre
  6. urkel's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrcsbrooks2 View Post
    it's not fair to webOS seeing that it's only not even @ 2.0, while ios is @ 4.0.
    If that's the case then when CAN we compare two products currently sold in todays market? When WebOS is v4 iOS will be v6?

    It seems like the ONLY time you're allowed to judge two products released at different times is when the younger product is BETTER than the new one. WinMo is at 6.5 but nobody holds back their comparison when Android/iPhone surpassed it at 1.0. So why does WebOS get a pass just because it's newer? If anything, it should be judged harder because of Palms extensive experience in the market compared to Google/Apple.
  7. SDash's Avatar
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    #27  
    imo
    the webOS experience is the best but the times that it will work as expected is less than 50% of the time. Maybe 40%.

    I prefer looking at usability over anything else. When my pre works. It works exactly how I want it. After taking a run through the gf's iPhone and friends' Android and Blackberries, there is wayyyy too many features I missed.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Maybe the Title should of been:
    'WebOS Vs iOS4'
    will do...thanks for suggestion.
    ios4 it is
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    He's not asking what phone is better guys.
    Just think about the UI and the OS. Flip flop the hardware for a moment, think of WebOs on the same specs as the iphone4.
    I honestly don't think anyone on the other side of this discussion is misunderstanding the question. I think you may be misunderstanding the answer. You can't flip flop the hardware, even for a moment. You cannot decouple hardware from software, mix and match, and come up with an "experience" worth evaluating.

    The iPhone is not just a flick, pinch and zoom software experience riding on generic hardware. Apple didn't implement that interface until they were able to couple it with the best piece of capacitive glass for the job. The speed of the iPhone has nothing to do with random hardware specs. The iPhone does not wear the ram crown, yet its systems are finely tuned for that amount of ram. Could the processor have been faster? Of course! But how would that have affected battery life. That is the difference between someone having to buy a separate battery just to watch a whole movie during their flight. There are a lot of things they could have slapped onto the system, but it would have ruined the experience.

    The iPhone 4 FaceTime is an excellent example. While speck spouting tech heads can claim that other phones have front facing cameras, Apple changes the nature of the conversation with two words: ZERO CONFIGURATION! You don't get that by copying the iPhone 4 hardware, nor can you just rip the software out of the iPhone. Have you any idea how many person hours and R&D dollars that represents? That, and the passion and vision behind making the best, user-friendly devices is not copyable. Sure, Palm can slap a camera into a phone just like others have in the past. But is there anyone at Palm who will even bother asking the question, will regular people be able to use this?

    People often say that the difference between Apple and everyone else is Steve Jobs. That is somewhat true. He has a vision that guides the decisions made about products released to end users. Sometimes, I think he is the only CEO who even knows that there ARE end users. This is why Apple hit a home run on the first swing, and why other companies are just now pulling up their jock strap. They see one company do something; they think they can do it to. They think hardware and software are just commodities that shouldn't be patented or held up to a high standard. They think one bit is just the same as another, and it can all just be mixed and matched until we get a frankin-phone we can live with, or at least sell a few units.

    To even imagine the WebOS on iPhone hardware is to completely miss the point, IMO
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I honestly don't think anyone on the other side of this discussion is misunderstanding the question. I think you may be misunderstanding the answer. You can't flip flop the hardware, even for a moment. You cannot decouple hardware from software, mix and match, and come up with an "experience" worth evaluating.

    The iPhone is not just a flick, pinch and zoom software experience riding on generic hardware. Apple didn't implement that interface until they were able to couple it with the best piece of capacitive glass for the job. The speed of the iPhone has nothing to do with random hardware specs. The iPhone does not wear the ram crown, yet its systems are finely tuned for that amount of ram. Could the processor have been faster? Of course! But how would that have affected battery life. That is the difference between someone having to buy a separate battery just to watch a whole movie during their flight. There are a lot of things they could have slapped onto the system, but it would have ruined the experience.

    The iPhone 4 FaceTime is an excellent example. While speck spouting tech heads can claim that other phones have front facing cameras, Apple changes the nature of the conversation with two words: ZERO CONFIGURATION! You don't get that by copying the iPhone 4 hardware, nor can you just rip the software out of the iPhone. Have you any idea how many person hours and R&D dollars that represents? That, and the passion and vision behind making the best, user-friendly devices is not copyable. Sure, Palm can slap a camera into a phone just like others have in the past. But is there anyone at Palm who will even bother asking the question, will regular people be able to use this?

    People often say that the difference between Apple and everyone else is Steve Jobs. That is somewhat true. He has a vision that guides the decisions made about products released to end users. Sometimes, I think he is the only CEO who even knows that there ARE end users. This is why Apple hit a home run on the first swing, and why other companies are just now pulling up their jock strap. They see one company do something; they think they can do it to. They think hardware and software are just commodities that shouldn't be patented or held up to a high standard. They think one bit is just the same as another, and it can all just be mixed and matched until we get a frankin-phone we can live with, or at least sell a few units.

    To even imagine the WebOS on iPhone hardware is to completely miss the point, IMO
    Thank you for your opinion. I can see you are a big supporter of apple.
    I will make a couple of points on why I dont like the Iphone... and Do not purchase Apple Products. The first, CONTROL. I can see you have a lot of "cants" in your response. I CAN Flip flop, swap, decouple, overclock, patch, hunt for what i want out of my experience. I guess it depends on what kind of smartphone user you are. If you want a device that you can just turn on and use and never want to change a thing about it... then I guess you appreciate all of those hours of R and D that apple spends on making that experience happen for you. Also, I can see you not having a problem with Steve Jobs and his control freak ways . What I find interesting about Iphone fanatics... is that almost every one of them i know has jailbroken their phones (illegally) and rave about how much better it is than the standard os... If apple's os is as good as you say it is... why do so many illegally Jailbreak it? Let me answer this one.
    Why, because many techie users want to be able to customize their phones to their liking. Thats where WEBOS shines and Ios fizzles. I am the type of smart phone user that appreciates Palms attitude towards the homebrew community. I like the OPTIONS that webos gives me. I do not want my choices limited and controlled. That is why am on this site , own 2 Pre's, respect open source and Palms embracing of the homebrew/ dev communities and am looking forward to ubiquitous computing...................with WEBOS.

    here is another point. If you want a phone that is simple and easy to use... may i present to you the palm Pixi. If you want a bit more power,options etc... Pre. Both are outdated... but my point is that you have two options... not just one like the iphone. Can and will those options be improved... yes they will. Does having two smartphone options, one smart, one not so smart... work Better than having one? In my opinion, yes. WEBOS has the potential to be a superior option to the Apple Iphone. If the new versions of Pixi and Pre are exactly what we have been asking for... it will become reality. Why do i believe? Because Palm is different than apple. Palm Listens to its consumers. Want proof... look over the updates that they released, free, ota , since webos was launched. Take a look at the relationship Palm is building with Apple devs( a post today on precentral)... tell us what you think about that? What has held palm back from reaching the same levell of marketing and quality of products $$$$$$. Bringing up past HP aquisitions with previous CEO... and to suggest that the way a company used to do business is the way it always will... is absurd. Look at Palm itself. Big changes their in the past few years... especially howw they treat devs. Lessons learned... i think so.
    No question that ios is great quality... But for the type of phone I am looking for... not for me and i can tell that many others in this forum feel the same way about WEBOS. Thanks again for sharing your opinion and have fun with your new iphone.
    ubiquitous computing...................
  11. #31  
    Even though you quoted my whole post (not necessary), you didn't actually respond to it. I'm not getting drawn into a discussion about why you don't want an iPhone. I don't care. I was responding to the notion that you can compare the iOS in a vacuum, apart from the hardware and total experience.
  12.    #32  
    But i did. My response is that I would rather have two options. A dumber one for people who just like to have it simple... and a smarter one with the support of a community like homebrew that palm accepts... to help me customize my OS to my linking... not what the manufacturer thinks i want.
    I dont appreciate the control that Apple maintains to acheive their idea of a smartphone. I appreciate the openess that WEBO encompasses.
    The part i dont think you understand is the whole reason i dont want an iphone... is the OS. You are debating that i can not seperate the two. I am telling you why I am. I dont want to have to illegally hack it to make it my way.
    I respect your opinion. Im not sure why you are having a hard time grasping the discussion. If you consider Iphone as perfect as released by apple... I have many iphone fanatic friends that want to passionately express to you how much they disagree.
    read your response.. your the one telling me what i cant do.
  13. #33  
    Just because someone thinks Iphone is better than WebOS, it doesn't make you an Apple fanatic. I don't have Iphone but I respect what apple did to the smartphone market. They are always one step ahead of anyone else. It took more than 2 years to have any kind of legitimate competition to Iphone, no I am not talking about Pre, Android phone. Now they are leading again, and everyone else have to catch up.

    Honestly at this point, WebOS is just a novelity item, and nothing more. I have few more months before I can upgrade my phone, and I will either get the new Android phone or Iphone if it's available on Verizon wireless.

    Goodluck with your world greatest phone, Pre.
  14. #34  
    @clutch1222

    I think you missed his point. And i do see yours as well. But if Apple had you in mind, they wouldn't be successful. You pointed out that advanced users can jailbreak (nothing illegal about that, just against TOS for Apple's warranty). And since you can, i can modify and do all these things you mention that you covet. Don't sit there and think Sprint likes you putting mytether on your Pre as well.

    But Apple's success depends on the regular person being able to use the device. And people are very stupid, lazy, or both. It's quite the trick being able to appeal to both regular and advanced users.

    I question your thoughts that the Palm Pixi (or Pre) are that easy to use. I've seen people even in this forum struggle with it. Losing contacts, syncing media, etc. The Pixi isn't less smarter, it's just less powerful. They both run the same OS? The Pixi was a stupid idea. Noone wants a one inch screen on a phone anymore. How is offering a stupid phone without wifi and a badly built phone (Pre) better than offering one great phone?

    It's not a question about Palm having more $$$$. If they had, they'd have spent it foolishly and lost more money. Look at their marketing. Look at em moving on to launch as many carriers as possible while the Pre struggles on their original launch carrier. They're still launching away with "Plus" versions that carriers are having to practically give away. I think Sprint gave up on em and Palm doesn't seem interested either in their biggest base of customers.

    You say Palm is learning. I say prove it (despite the fact that Palm has years in the smartphone business and shouldn't be having to learn anything). They certainly didn't learn from their pre-webOS days of bad marketing. They didn't learn from the Sprint launch. They didn't learn from the Verizon launch. Palm learned so much that someone else bought em.

    In fact the only flicker of hope one can really look at is that HP is in charge now. I wonder if HP needs to go through a learning process? They already have a playbook on what not to do..courtesy of Palm.
  15.    #35  
    jailbreaking not illegal... excuse my ignorance of iphone os... its not that its not good, its that im not interested. But my point is.. ask Steve Jobs what he thinks of it. Ask Palm what they think of Home brew. I dont support Jobs mentality, I support Palm's.
    Thats my whole point. Apple does not have me in mind... Palm Does.
    opinions are what these are. I do think with more money= pay for better advertising companies. More money... solid hardware not plastic etc.

    "I question your thoughts that the Palm Pixi (or Pre) are that easy to use. I've seen people even in this forum struggle with it. Losing contacts, syncing media, etc. The Pixi isn't less smarter, it's just less powerful. They both run the same OS? The Pixi was a stupid idea. Noone wants a one inch screen on a phone anymore. How is offering a stupid phone without wifi and a badly built phone (Pre) better than offering one great phone?"

    once again your opinion. Pixi is easy to use. all u need to figure out is gesture. trust me, i showed some pretty stupid people how to do it and they now love it.
    all of the issues you pointout with pixi are past issues... not fair. could it be bigger... yes - pixi 2 - once again hardware.

    "You say Palm is learning. I say prove it (despite the fact that Palm has years in the smartphone business and shouldn't be having to learn anything)." I wont prove it.. i am stating i believe Palm Will. Show me any individual or company that does not need to learn anything... and I will proclaim them an *****\ soon to be failure.

    No disrespect... but I dont see your view of apple. Thats why im on this site.
    Any WEBOS enthusiasts out there?
    I am glad you are posting your opinions... and I honestly thank you for doing so.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I honestly don't think anyone on the other side of this discussion is misunderstanding the question. I think you may be misunderstanding the answer. You can't flip flop the hardware, even for a moment. You cannot decouple hardware from software, mix and match, and come up with an "experience" worth evaluating.

    The iPhone is not just a flick, pinch and zoom software experience riding on generic hardware. Apple didn't implement that interface until they were able to couple it with the best piece of capacitive glass for the job. The speed of the iPhone has nothing to do with random hardware specs. The iPhone does not wear the ram crown, yet its systems are finely tuned for that amount of ram. Could the processor have been faster? Of course! But how would that have affected battery life. That is the difference between someone having to buy a separate battery just to watch a whole movie during their flight. There are a lot of things they could have slapped onto the system, but it would have ruined the experience.

    The iPhone 4 FaceTime is an excellent example. While speck spouting tech heads can claim that other phones have front facing cameras, Apple changes the nature of the conversation with two words: ZERO CONFIGURATION! You don't get that by copying the iPhone 4 hardware, nor can you just rip the software out of the iPhone. Have you any idea how many person hours and R&D dollars that represents? That, and the passion and vision behind making the best, user-friendly devices is not copyable. Sure, Palm can slap a camera into a phone just like others have in the past. But is there anyone at Palm who will even bother asking the question, will regular people be able to use this?

    People often say that the difference between Apple and everyone else is Steve Jobs. That is somewhat true. He has a vision that guides the decisions made about products released to end users. Sometimes, I think he is the only CEO who even knows that there ARE end users. This is why Apple hit a home run on the first swing, and why other companies are just now pulling up their jock strap. They see one company do something; they think they can do it to. They think hardware and software are just commodities that shouldn't be patented or held up to a high standard. They think one bit is just the same as another, and it can all just be mixed and matched until we get a frankin-phone we can live with, or at least sell a few units.

    To even imagine the WebOS on iPhone hardware is to completely miss the point, IMO
  17. #37  
    i'm not an apple lover. i also agree with whoever posted that the best phone in my opinion on my carrier may be ***** to someone else. i get a great deal on a fam plan on sprint so i have no real incentive to change to an iphone. anyway, i would love to see the ios get a real good run for its $ by webos but in the end i'm rooting for hpalm's bottom line vs apple's. but when my bottom line is affected i have to see what's the most bang for my $ and back then webos was the most innovative...perhaps next year it will be the pre 2, htc evo, or the iphone (if att has reliable service and can match the sprint plan)...we'll see
  18. urkel's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch1222 View Post
    I will make a couple of points on why I dont like the Iphone... and Do not purchase Apple Products. The first, CONTROL. I can see you have a lot of "cants" in your response. I CAN Flip flop, swap, decouple, overclock, patch, hunt for what i want out of my experience. I guess it depends on what kind of smartphone user you are. If you want a device that you can just turn on and use and never want to change a thing about it... then I guess you appreciate all of those hours of R and D that apple spends on making that experience happen for you. Also, I can see you not having a problem with Steve Jobs and his control freak ways . What I find interesting about Iphone fanatics... is that almost every one of them i know has jailbroken their phones (illegally) and rave about how much better it is than the standard os... If apple's os is as good as you say it is... why do so many illegally Jailbreak it? Let me answer this one.
    Why, because many techie users want to be able to customize their phones to their liking. Thats where WEBOS shines and Ios fizzles. I am the type of smart phone user that appreciates Palms attitude towards the homebrew community. I like the OPTIONS that webos gives me. I do not want my choices limited and controlled. That is why am on this site , own 2 Pre's, respect open source and Palms embracing of the homebrew/ dev communities and am looking forward to ubiquitous computing...................with WEBOS.
    In reading your posts then it feels like you've got a bit of "John Locke Syndrome" going on and all your frustration is based on the whole "Don't tell me what I can't do" stance. And to be honest, I really don't get it. Palm "embraces homebrew" and Apple "quietly ignores jailbreaking". So what? Is the company stance really more important than the end result?

    Your claims against Apple is that users are locked inside Apple's walled garden so if you want to customize iOS or get unapproved apps you are forced to jailbreak. But your praise on Palm is that WebOS shines because if you don't like the defaults then you are free to go to homebrew. But what exactly is the difference between "jailbreak" and "homebrew"? In both scenarios an average user can survive in easy-mode with the stock OS, and in both scenarios an aspirational tech head can climb the fence and find his missing tools by circumventing the manufacturer determined defaults. Jailbreaking is a one-click process and installing jailbroken apps is just as simple as installing a homebrew app. But I'd say if we're talking about the ability to tweak, customize or obtain obscure apps then the iPhone app catalog or jailbreak community far outshines what's available in the WebOS world.
    Last edited by Urkel; 06/11/2010 at 02:35 AM.
  19.    #39  
    it's a culture thing...big difference in my eyes...not in yours. I see more promise in palms open source and attitude than apple's current model.
    what I meant by the "cant" thing is just what I said. I can separate hardware from software... Because I want to and I can.
    I can pick apart many of excuses for apple superiority claims over webos... All day.
    palm has wonmany design awards for pre.. For a reason..its innovative. Look at itand any other smartphone it's compared to.... And you have your answer...from hardwarre to software was more innovative than iphone 3g was to iphone 3Gs... And that is not just my opinion.
    I would like to hear from believers of webos...
    what makes webos better experience for you?
    notifications
    multitasking
    ota updates to os
    ota daily sync data to google etc
    overall culture @ palm
    gesture

    I know many don't want to put themselves out there against the all mighty iphone. I will promise you that if webos fails to deliver...Hpalm drops the ball... I will be the first one to admit the failure. I honestly believe in the future of webos.
    will it ever outsell the gigantic machine called iphone...maybe in years to come...maybe not.
    but will it be more innovative, it will be the better os ...that is my opinion. It's still the better os right now.
    Last edited by clutch1222; 06/11/2010 at 06:29 AM. Reason: additional
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by errade View Post
    keep in mind that if the iPhone never existed, the smartphone market would be years behind what it is today. That's why Apple is still the market leader - they set the standard for the entire industry.
    Interesting point, makes me wonder what WebOS would have looked like if iOS never existed... Would they have had the current aesthetic regardless of being inspired by Apple or not..? Would WebOS have been the market leader in terms of UI innovation?
    Last edited by i_maq; 06/11/2010 at 04:21 PM.
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