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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    If you want to count a Pre+ and Pixi+ as new phones then go ahead. But that's disingenuous at best and you know it. Adding memory and storage doesn't make a new phone. Adding new chipsets, functionality, a major update to the OS, and maybe changing the form factor are the things that make a new phone a new phone. The Pixi wasn't exactly a step upwards as far as creating a top of the line phone, its easy to put an OS on a slower device with off the shelf parts.

    I wasn't making excuses. I merely pointed out as you did that the problem is "slow updates to hardware", more precisely that Palm not releasing a new top of the line phone 12 months after the first phone is the problem, even more so b/c Palm are half year product cycle behind Apple and HTC.
    exactly +1
  2. #62  
    The Pre is 17 months old... It was debuted in Jan 09 and took 6 months to release and still didn't get it right.... Iphone 4 is coming out in 2 weeks and doesn't neeed a million updates in a year to get it right.. It's already good to go on launch. Apple haven't spent a year updating iPhone 3Gs but instead spent time building new hardware something I hope Palm is doing!!
  3. #63  
    Also, I have to say that I'd get an iPhone4 if it ran on VZ (remember: always pick your carrier first...).

    It's not that I'd like it better, but with all the 3rd party support (iPhone hacks in cars, hotel rooms, etc) it makes other phones (even Android) somewhat like trying to drive a british car (driver on the right side) on american roads. It can be done, but it will probably always feel awkward... at some point, resistance is futile. Once LTE rolls out and iPhone finally goes to other carriers (prediction, you will never see iPhone on another US carrier until LTE is widely deployed)... Most people not already married to Android wont be able to resist the gravitational pull of Steve Jobs....
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    If you want to count a Pre+ and Pixi+ as new phones then go ahead. But that's disingenuous at best and you know it. Adding memory and storage doesn't make a new phone. Adding new chipsets, functionality, a major update to the OS, and maybe changing the form factor are the things that make a new phone a new phone. The Pixi wasn't exactly a step upwards as far as creating a top of the line phone, its easy to put an OS on a slower device with off the shelf parts.

    I wasn't making excuses. I merely pointed out as you did that the problem is slow updates to hardware. More precisely that releasing real new top of the line phones is the problem, even more so b/c Palm are half a cycle behind Apple and HTC.
    The Pre and Pixi Plus are new and distinct devices. Countless people on these very forums would use their yearly upgrade on Sprint to buy a Pre Plus, and have explicitly stated so.

    As for Pixi, it not being a step upwards is irrelevant. That was Palm's stupidity. It was a new and distinct device. Palm has made a number of hardware "updates", and should theoretically be cycles ahead of Apple just as HTC is. HTC released the exact same number of Android devices (four) in America in the same 12 month time span.
  5. solarus's Avatar
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedar View Post
    Umm tell Palm that their product is 6 months old with just a GSM band in it, not me.

    Unless Palm's coming out with a flagship device, the best Palm thing to compare the Iphone 4g to is the Pre Plus on AT&T or Verizon.
    And that is what I am getting at. The real problem is that Palm is 6 months behind Apple and HTC in their product cycle. And because of this, of course the current Pre+, just like the Pre, doesn't match up to the Apple or HTC products that have just been released.

    Like I said in another reply - a new phone isn't made by swapping out the radio and adding more memory. A New Phone has fundamental OS updates, maybe new chips (GPS, storage etc..), added hardware functionality, maybe even a change in form factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre and Pixi Plus are new and distinct devices. Countless people on these very forums would use their yearly upgrade on Sprint to buy a Pre Plus, and have explicitly stated so.

    As for Pixi, it not being a step upwards is irrelevant. That was Palm's stupidity. It was a new and distinct device. Palm has made a number of hardware "updates", and should theoretically be cycles ahead of Apple just as HTC is. HTC released the exact same number of Android devices (four) in America in the same 12 month time span.
    If you want to say the iPhone 4 to 3GS "update" or the HTC EVO to HTC Hero "update" is the same as the Pre+ to Pre then keep you head up Steve's place where the sun don't shine and in enjoy the view. Bye Bye.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    the battery life will be that good, using the A4 chipset. As stated above though you cant compare a first generation device to a 4th, its not logical. Now when the next generation WebOS phone comes forth, then make comparisons.
    This is just plain wrong! if what you say is true then we would have one big company in every aspect of business that dominates it's sector. So in about 3 years we can compare the Pre then to the iPhone now? what a wrong comment to make.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Actually, "iPhone 4" is generally used to refer to the not-yet-available update to iPhone OS that will add limited multi-tasking, etc. I know that "4G" isn't actually an official Apple term, you won't find many places in the press where they aren't calling this new phone 4G, because the industry has always used "G/generation" to differentiate between iPhone and iPod models... and Apple marketing knows it.

    The point I wanted you to land on is that if my reasonable smartphone-savvy friends didn't realize that iPhone 4(G) and an 4G phone running on a 4G network aren't a valid comparison - then what does the other 95% of the market think? The point is that Sprint needs to address this in there marketing messages and positioning, because the "perceived value" of the 4G term is losing momentum as it becomes more generic. Same thing happened to AT&T when 3G became generic enough to be applied to EVDO Rev A, when technically 3G was originally a term that came from the GSM world...

    Perception is reality, and Sprint now has a perception problem, IMHO...
    Waaaaaat? Sprint just broke sales records with the Evo 4G, and Apple has never said 4G anything and has officially called the device "iPhone 4" repeatedly in today's keynote. Meanwhile a Google search for "iPhone 4G" turns up no recent press coverage whatsoever (all first page articles are dated around mid-April). Try it again with "iPhone 4". All today's articles covering the keynote.

    I think you might have a perception problem...
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre and Pixi Plus are new and distinct devices. Countless people on these very forums would use their yearly upgrade on Sprint to buy a Pre Plus, and have explicitly stated so.

    As for Pixi, it not being a step upwards is irrelevant. That was Palm's stupidity. It was a new and distinct device. Palm has made a number of hardware "updates", and should theoretically be cycles ahead of Apple just as HTC is. HTC released the exact same number of Android devices (four) in America in the same 12 month time span.
    first I agree the pixi was a very stupid idea. Though the only reason people on sprint would buy the plus version is because there is nothing else Palm would have to offer right now. Third when looking at the OS maturity you cant really compare WebOS to Apple OS's, you can compare it to Androids though, and I had the first generation android the G1 and in a years time so far I would like to say with limited funds, and resources that palm had since the intial launch of the palm pre on sprint they have made huge strides in terms of optimizing the OS IMO.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by htabbach View Post
    This is just plain wrong! if what you say is true then we would have one big company in every aspect of business that dominates it's sector. So in about 3 years we can compare the Pre then to the iPhone now? what a wrong comment to make.
    ? what part are you stating im confused with what you were pertaining to. Can you please explain alittle more to me thank you.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    And that is what I am getting at. The real problem is that Palm is 6 months behind Apple and HTC in their product cycle. And because of this, of course the current Pre+, just like the Pre, doesn't match up to the Apple or HTC products that have just been released.

    Like I said in another reply - a new phone isn't made by swapping out the radio and adding more memory. A New Phone has fundamental OS updates, maybe new chips (GPS, storage etc..), added hardware functionality, maybe even a change in form factor.



    If you want to say the iPhone 4 to 3GS "update" or the HTC EVO to HTC Hero "update" is the same as the Pre+ to Pre then keep you head up Steve's place where the sun don't shine and in enjoy the view. Bye Bye.
    this is what Im saying exactly, +1
  11. #71  
    WebOS just got one two punches from HTC EVO and Iphone 4. Now Microsoft's Mobile 7 will be release within next few months, Palm/HP has to do something really fast. If we don't have any update or announcement of next generation Pre before Microsoft's announcement, I think it's game over for HP's smartphone market business. Then again, I still think HP bought the Palm for WebOS, not the smartphone.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    And that is what I am getting at. The real problem is that Palm is 6 months behind Apple and HTC in their product cycle. And because of this, of course the current Pre+, just like the Pre, doesn't match up to the Apple or HTC products that have just been released.

    Like I said in another reply - a new phone isn't made by swapping out the radio and adding more memory. A New Phone has fundamental OS updates, maybe new chips (GPS, storage etc..), added hardware functionality, maybe even a change in form factor.
    The Pre Plus launched with:

    - different storage
    - different memory
    - different hardware (different keyboard, no button)

    What "fundamental" software changes were announced with it?

    http://www.precentral.net/live-palms-ces-2010-event

    Oh, just 3D games, the promise of video recording, and a mobile hotspot app.

    By your own criteria, you're wrong!
  13. #73  
    So not even a few hours ago... i checked out the iphone blog, and it annouced the relsease of the I phone 4, and up til now theyve annouced the specs, than a release date, and what country it will be available in and the price cuts... just saying they have put out a lot of info today
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre Plus launched with:

    - different storage
    - different memory
    - different hardware (different keyboard, no button)

    What "fundamental" software changes were announced with it?

    http://www.precentral.net/live-palms-ces-2010-event

    Oh, just 3D games, the promise of video recording, and a mobile hotspot app.

    By your own criteria, you're wrong!
    I am sorry but I agree with solarus, the + was a 1.2 hardware version release not a 2.0 hardware. They are basically the same thing.

    BTW the iPhone 3G came in 8GB, and 16GB, it was still the iPhone 3G

    Sprint Pre- Meta-Doctor 2.1.0 w/Flash

    Everything is Amazing & Nobody is Happy, "People with their mobile phones, "uh... oh... it won't..."... GIVE IT A SECOND... IT'S GOING TO SPACE!" Louis C.K.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    first I agree the pixi was a very stupid idea. Though the only reason people on sprint would buy the plus version is because there is nothing else Palm would have to offer right now. Third when looking at the OS maturity you cant really compare WebOS to Apple OS's, you can compare it to Androids though, and I had the first generation android the G1 and in a years time so far I would like to say with limited funds, and resources that palm had since the intial launch of the palm pre on sprint they have made huge strides in terms of optimizing the OS IMO.
    I repeat, you cannot handicap product offerings in the name of "fairness". If that were the case, what mobile OSes or devices could you compare? NONE. None of them have had identical product cycles from companies with identical resources and completely equal abilities to get their product market launching on the same time on the exact same carrier.

    There are ALWAYS variables. Always. There is no apple-to-apple comparison. Can't be done.

    You can only compare what one has now versus what the other has now. If you want to get technical, Palm had a lead of several years, several millions of devices, and several tens of thousands of apps over the iPhone when it launched. Did that stop Apple from wiping the floor with them or anybody else? No.

    For backpatting purposes, you can always say Palm did great with what they had, but that's not enough.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeep View Post
    The Pre is 17 months old... It was debuted in Jan 09 and took 6 months to release and still didn't get it right.... Iphone 4 is coming out in 2 weeks and doesn't neeed a million updates in a year to get it right.. It's already good to go on launch. Apple haven't spent a year updating iPhone 3Gs but instead spent time building new hardware something I hope Palm is doing!!
    Given the past and future updates to webOS, the comparison is valid. Both the iPhone 3Gs (and 4) can play leapfrog (or king of the hill) with webOS. The only difference would be if the Pre hardware isn't what you like. Personally, I must have a physical keyboard. If that wasn't a major criteria, then I could look at what is likely to be added to iPhone and webOS over the life of my contract... because in both cases the current hardware can support the future updates. Example: If taking videos was a critical factor - both webOS and iPhone had that added in a future release. If there is something equally important - I have to consider the likelihood that it would eventually come to one or both. If iPhone has it now, can I risk that webOS might not have it, or have it too late for me to care. But that doesn't have anything to do with old/new if I prefer the underlying hardware of one vs the other.

    If Palm ships a phone with no keyboard, I won't consider it... I actually like my Pre hardware a lot... based on what I want in a phone...

    Unfortunately, I can see a future where everyone moves to a soft keyboard and I don't have a choice... But as it stands today - I don't consider the Pre+ to be "old hardware" because it works the way I want it to, and will be able to run whatever new stuff comes to webOS during my contract... The risk is whether something wont come to webOS before then (like flash?). If flash were a major requirement for me... I'd be worried, but not worried enough to give up my keyboard. Once HTML5 rules the world I will be eligible for an upgrade anyway... Ya see?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The Pre Plus launched with:

    - different storage
    - different memory
    - different hardware (different keyboard, no button)

    What "fundamental" software changes were announced with it?

    http://www.precentral.net/live-palms-ces-2010-event

    Oh, just 3D games, the promise of video recording, and a mobile hotspot app.

    By your own criteria, you're wrong!


    again what your saying dosnet make sense, the regular pre and the plus is the same damn phone, just the difference is double memory and ram, and no button (it has the same keyboard they stated everytime they tightened it up alittle, and made the buttons more clicky). To me this sounds like a tweak to a flawed designed product, not a new device. I guess your prob one of those peope who had a toyota camary and when the recalled it and added a new pedal, you told everyone you had the 2012 camary.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by drewton540 View Post
    Mikah912, Do you have any friends? It seems like every post you are bashing someone else or dumping on palm. Let's see some positivity for once or just stop posting.
    There's nothing positive about what Palm is doing right now. Well, homebrew community is nice but this isn't Palm/HP. And Mikah912 is posting on the right place to talk about Palm and Iphone. Keep it up Mikah912, hopely Palm/HP wakes up.
  19. #79  
    I'm still surprised Apple went ahead full speed with their most industrial design ever. This is the first time an iPhone actually does look more like a plain phone than an artsy phone.

    I hope you understand what I mean. LOL! But real buttons and bit of thickness, back not rounded off, no fancy silver bezel.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. cooknn's Avatar
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    #80  
    iMovie app for iPhone 4

    Man, if iPhone 4 comes to Sprint before the next Palm device, I'm gone. Did I just say that?! Argh
    Dave Cook | Fort Myers, Florida | Palm pre | Touchstone | Vaja iVolution Deco
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