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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by zealster View Post
    I was messing around with my friend's iPhone a couple days ago, and I really was unimpressed. Granted there are much more apps vs the Pre's 2.5k, but that really didn't impress me. I felt like the only thing the iPhone has over my Pre is better battery life and better network coverage (AT&T vs Sprint). Well, maybe the apps load faster than my Pre's but I don't really mind since I can leave mine open forever.

    Has anyone else touched an iPhone and still preferred their Pre? It really made me feel alot better about webOS and it's future vs iPhone OS.
    Not only have I touched an iPhone, but I was a 2-year iPhone user who switched to the Pre Plus on AT&T's launch day. The iPhone is clearly the superior hardware, but webOS is a superior OS.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberiian View Post
    [ But as I said, people - for the most part - don't buy an iPhone because they wanna tweak.

    Just because they can't tweak doesn't mean that they wouldn't if they could. And when i say "could" i mean easily, without going far beyond the ability of the typical user.

    WebOS is so intuitive, that just about ANY user can see a screenshot of something they like, install the homebrew associated with it, and be done that easily.

    I am not saying that iOS is bad, just that it is lacking in areas in which the smartphone community will be trending towads in the next few years.
    What?

    Screenshot? What are you on about? Homebrewing is not intuitive, which is why you must enter a code, download additional desktop programs and drivers, reset, download Preware, and then scroll through its menus to find a specific patch/function/whatever.

    And Lord help you if you want to overclock at a speed beyond the sanctioned Uberkernel. There are pages of detailed instructions to tell people how to do precisely BECAUSE it is not intuitive. No sort of homebrewing, ROMs, or jailbreaking is intuitive. They all take effort, desire and saavy on the part of the user. It's just that on Android and iOS that your device will have a lot more capabilities if you decide to stay stock. Can't say the same for WebOS.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What?

    Screenshot? What are you on about? Homebrewing is not intuitive, which is why you must enter a code, download additional desktop programs and drivers, reset, download Preware, and then scroll through its menus to find a specific patch/function/whatever.

    And Lord help you if you want to overclock at a speed beyond the sanctioned Uberkernel. There are pages of detailed instructions to tell people how to do precisely BECAUSE it is not intuitive. No sort of homebrewing, ROMs, or jailbreaking is intuitive. They all take effort, desire and saavy on the part of the user. It's just that on Android and iOS that your device will have a lot more capabilities if you decide to stay stock. Can't say the same for WebOS.
    The vast majority of homebrew only requires preware in order to download and install it. Even though there are a couple steps involved, it is still near idiotproof as long as you can read. BTW, preware is now a standalone installer, and requires nothing other than the "konami code" and being installed. Now, if YOU are in reference to the DEVEOPMENT of homebrew, which is something i have no personal experience in, that might be a different issue altogether. But I have made NO prior reference to the programming of applications.
    Isn't the word "stock" just a synonym for "boring" "plain" "basic" "generic" "unfinished" etc...?
  4. #124  
    What it great is that there are multiple platforms to choose from. Windows Mobile, Iphone, Blackberry, WebOS and Android.

    Each have their strengths and weaknesses, and you can argue which is better or worse all day long but so much of that depends on personal taste and requirements.
    Loving my Pixi. Yes I am a guy and own a Pixi, get over it.


  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What?

    Screenshot? What are you on about? Homebrewing is not intuitive, which is why you must enter a code, download additional desktop programs and drivers, reset, download Preware, and then scroll through its menus to find a specific patch/function/whatever.
    Um, let's be accurate here.
    First, you don't have to "scroll" anywhere, if you know the name.
    If you don't, they're pretty well categorized.
    I suppose the iPhone apps come to folks in a dream and whispers the name as iPhans fantasize.
  6. #126  
    i would rather have wimo6.1 than ios.
    i have webOS for a reason.
    Palm prē-ist.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok,...I get it already. You're bereft of wit.
    ...
    Ahhh, I see. My humor is different than yours; therefore I'm "bereft of wit". I prefer a different phone, and therefor I've got the poorer choice. I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But the number of iPhone apps is still a legitimate point of comparison despite its age because WebOS never generated significant app development momentum, and still hasn't in 13 months on the market.
    Yep, it's your point, thus it's legitimate. The Pre started off multi-tasking, but that comparison is old - not because Apple has made any great strides, but ... well ... the pattern holds. Because you say so.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm not the one "eliminating" Pre selling points. It's a collaborative effort with the competition not standing still, and HP/Palm doing exactly that - as far as customers are concerned.

    I'm sure there are many things going on behind the scenes, but that's been true for some time.
    Sorry, but your information is simply innacurate. Palm has made a number of strides, and most definitely are not "standing still". I understand they haven't moved the way you wish, and that's a perfectly legitimate choice for you. At the same time, those of us that still have the Pre, still enjoy the device, and still see the continuing value have made a legitimate choice as well. Your disillusionment is your issue, not a lack of wit, knowledge, experience, expertise, or any of the other nonsensical things you wish to apply in an attempt to justify your decision.

    I'm so happy with my choice I don't even bother hanging around the Apple boards.

    I'm just sayin'
  8. #128  
    dont forget, tealOS ... as in palmOS palm gave a cease and desist order because save state was not multitasking, and showed everyone how well it could be implemented.
    Palm prē-ist.
  9. bennish's Avatar
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    #129  
    i did the same thing as OP, played with a mate's iphone... there were quite a few things that disappointed me. And also, it was much slower than I thought!!

    I've found that almost everyone who has actually TRIED webos, admits thinking it's better than iphone (oh, sorry, 'iOS'). (Though that doesn't necessarily mean they like the hardware)
  10. #130  
    I switched to IPhone 4 and actually loved it, needed service, but Sprint finally repaired my phone so changed back and so glad to be back.

    I will not switch again, even if they put in on Sprint. However, the coolest thing is the way it runs stock for the multitudes. It is awesome, it has so many apps and things that can be done without "fiddling" with it for normal users. It is innovative, fast, and easy to use.

    So is the Pre, and in my opinion, the multi tasking, the ability to modify and personalize the phone so outshines the IPhone, but that said, most of the millions don't want to change anything, just like Android, they want it out of the box and buy apps.

    So for "unsophisticated" users, for its hardware, it is a wonderful piece of equipment.

    But from someone who has always had to have the latest, greatest, you can have Android, Apple, and especially Windows. I will stay with the slick, smooth Pre which does everything the Iphone does (except run Shazam) and know that HP will make this change in the future. My phone ran so much better for me, I won't do that again.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberiian View Post
    The vast majority of homebrew only requires preware in order to download and install it. Even though there are a couple steps involved, it is still near idiotproof as long as you can read. BTW, preware is now a standalone installer, and requires nothing other than the "konami code" and being installed. Now, if YOU are in reference to the DEVEOPMENT of homebrew, which is something i have no personal experience in, that might be a different issue altogether. But I have made NO prior reference to the programming of applications.
    Isn't the word "stock" just a synonym for "boring" "plain" "basic" "generic" "unfinished" etc...?
    If you think "stock" means "unfinished", it's no wonder why you think it's intuitive to seek out and enter a code, reset, download an app on your desktop, connect your cable, install some stuff, start up another app, and remember to enter the code again so you can get out of developer mode lest iTunes sync not work.

    And of course once all of this is done, no one ever has any issues or has to doctor again...which involves another desktop app. Yeah.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Um, let's be accurate here.
    First, you don't have to "scroll" anywhere, if you know the name.
    If you don't, they're pretty well categorized.
    I suppose the iPhone apps come to folks in a dream and whispers the name as iPhans fantasize.
    I stand corrected...which changes absolutely nothing about the point I was making about how unintuitive this is being that that's the last step in the process.
  13. #133  
    I prefer webOS to the iOS. Did I stay on topic? Yay! A good start to my day!
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  14. #134  
    the fact that there are iphone users on a palm website is good news for palm owners. People only complain when they're afraid of a rival.

    1. Palm is for sophisticated power users that want to get the most out of their phone.
    2. Precentral has the best following of any mobile website. Have you been to the others? I saw a tumbleweed roll across tipb yesterday. It's because there is more available to us in terms of sanctioned hacking. We can have fun with our phones wirhout any fear of repurcussion. People just won't get it until they use a pre. That's why they don't think multitasking is important. It's ignorance of what's out there.
    3. I love my palm pre running at 800mhz with 30 patches and countless homebrew apps. I won't change until palm/hp comes out with their next device. Even then, I might just overclock to 1ghz or 1.2 until the pre can't take anymore. Btw-i dontknow any code. I've never programmed. Preware is the most simple homebrewing program to use.

    bottom line - it's my phone. I an do what I want with it. Neither of the other platforms can say that.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I stand corrected...which changes absolutely nothing about the point I was making about how unintuitive this is being that that's the last step in the process.
    Here's another example:
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    If you think "stock" means "unfinished", it's no wonder why you think it's intuitive to seek out and enter a code, reset, download an app on your desktop, connect your cable, install some stuff, start up another app, and remember to enter the code again so you can get out of developer mode lest iTunes sync not work.
    ...
    Or, you could simply not use iTunes (I've never installed it), or you could just tap the icon for the patch that is available from said program (the only time I ever enter the code is when I first set up the phone).
    However, I'm sure your response is going to again be "which changes nothing about the point" you were making.

    Except, that's not true. You exaggerate the difficulty to make your point. If your point is really valid, it shouldn't need exaggeration to make it.

    Most folks don't do Homebrew, I'll grant you that. However, the comparison you're making simply is not valid. These things are "non-intuitive" because the nature of extreme customization is very non-intuitive.

    Sure, if you want to change a background screen, that can be made very intuitive. Then another user wants a theme. A third wants to only change the color of drop down bar. Yet another person wantx a different change, and then the system becomes somewhat cumbersome.

    I've always been amazed at the level of customization that can be done on BlackBerries (and yes, I know some folks are rolling their eyes right now, but they are very customizable). There is a dazzling amount of customization that can be done right from the OS. Then if someone really wants to get creative, themes can be done (though a bit cumbersome). All of that comes at a cost though. I've spen a lot of time talking users through some pretty "basic" stuff, because it's difficult to find. That, unfortunately, is the nature allowing extensive customization.

    I suspect that level of complexity is one of the reaons Palm hasn't added those options to WebOS. I don't like that decision (if for no other reason, I really don't like green, so I really don't like the ugly phone app). What's been done with PreWare is a very reasonable compromise.

    But I digress. My point is - you keep highlighting these things, then exaggerating about just how bad they are, while completely minimizing the drawbacks to your love toy. There's really nothing wrong with that, all of us tend to do that with devices we like or don't like. However, don't make the mistake of trying to pretend you're doing an objective comparsion - you're not.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Here's another example:

    Or, you could simply not use iTunes (I've never installed it), or you could just tap the icon for the patch that is available from said program (the only time I ever enter the code is when I first set up the phone).
    However, I'm sure your response is going to again be "which changes nothing about the point" you were making.

    Except, that's not true. You exaggerate the difficulty to make your point. If your point is really valid, it shouldn't need exaggeration to make it.
    I'm not exaggerating the difficulty at all. This again involves the last step, where I added a qualifier about it specifically relating to iTunes sync, something that Palm promoted to a great many users. Some of these users, myself included, still use iTunes sync and an older version of iTunes.

    Your workarounds merely add complexity (add yet another patch and navigate to that icon) or inconvenience (don't use that syncing solution even though you presumably like it to use it in the first place).

    Most folks don't do Homebrew, I'll grant you that. However, the comparison you're making simply is not valid. These things are "non-intuitive" because the nature of extreme customization is very non-intuitive.
    It is absolutely valid, hence me saying several posts ago:

    "No sort of homebrewing, ROMs, or jailbreaking is intuitive. They all take effort, desire and saavy on the part of the user."

    snip...My point is - you keep highlighting these things, then exaggerating about just how bad they are, while completely minimizing the drawbacks to your love toy. There's really nothing wrong with that, all of us tend to do that with devices we like or don't like. However, don't make the mistake of trying to pretend you're doing an objective comparsion - you're not.
    I think you're pretending that you make some sort of sense, which you don't. I have no "love toy". No dog in any fight. No team. No loyalty to any inanimate object. It's hard for a Pre Defense Force captain like yourself to understand, I am sure. But I have repeatedly asserted that I like Android and WebOS. Those are the only devices I use regularly. I have an older iPod Touch that pretty much my wife uses exclusively now, and even then, only as a media player. I don't need it and don't want it.

    Even if I did, who cares? The idea of you challenging anyone's objectivity or you mocking someone loving a device is a delicious, ironic joke.
  17. #137  
    I've played with friends iPhones and in stores and prefer WebOS. That said, if AT&T had a plan comparable to Sprint's Everything Data, I'd have an iPhone.

    The iPhone's ubiquity means it has apps I want that aren't on WebOS plus accessories and integration into other devices that I don't see WebOS ever having. Add more apps and some Palm-to-iPhone-dock interface and I'd prefer a WebOS phone. It would rock if said imaginary dock used the Bluetooth SPP profile so I didn't even need a physical connection to my WebOS phone.

    -Jay
    Last edited by jayhajj; 07/27/2010 at 09:32 AM.
  18. #138  
    I checked out the iphone 4 and Samsung Captivate at an at&t store. They are both definitely slick and nice looking. Whenever I went to close an app or to multitask, I instinctively tried to flick it away or tap in the gesture area. iOS4 and Android are definitely not at the same level as WebOS. WebOS is light years ahead of any mobile operating system out there. I just hope HP releases mobile hardware that matches the elegance, power, and openess of WebOS.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1on1 View Post
    I checked out the iphone 4 and Samsung Captivate at an at&t store. They are both definitely slick and nice looking. Whenever I went to close an app or to multitask, I instinctively tried to flick it away or tap in the gesture area. iOS4 and Android are definitely not at the same level as WebOS. WebOS is light years ahead of any mobile operating system out there. I just hope HP releases mobile hardware that matches the elegance, power, and openess of WebOS.
    I don't think anyone really disputes that WebOS cards view and gestures combine to form the best task switching implementation on the market. In that respect, Palm was and is light years beyond their competition, and that's a testament to the incredible design of the UI and OS.

    That being said, having the most awesome Z feature isn't compelling enough when other platforms have the best ABCDEFGHIJK features. As noted in another thread, Palm is not really even part of the discussion right now. So I hope to see the relaunch of WebOS with 2.0 not only with new hardware, but a buttload of software features and new big name apps that will bring some parity to allow Palm's taskswitching elegance to stand out more.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I'm not exaggerating the difficulty at all.
    Ahhh, OK, so the part where you talked about having to scroll through titles wasn't an exaggeration? The part about having to retype the code to disable dev mode (when, in fact, most people don't need to disable it, and those that do can simply click an icon) - none of those are exaggerations? I mean, they're not true. They either are blatently false, or they ignore much simpler methods, so what do you call them - creative licenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    This again involves the last step, where I added a qualifier about it specifically relating to iTunes sync, something that Palm promoted to a great many users. Some of these users, myself included, still use iTunes sync and an older version of iTunes.

    Your workarounds merely add complexity (add yet another patch and navigate to that icon) or inconvenience (don't use that syncing solution even though you presumably like it to use it in the first place).
    So adding an icon adds complexity? I'll grant you that is techinically correct, but such an obvious exaggeration. Does adding an icon really add that much complexity. Does that mean all those apps that iPhone adds increases the complexity of the system? How about Palm's on/off button for the ringer - bad move because it adds just one more thing.

    Here's the bottom line on that. Any extra thing, even if it's changing the color, adds that type of complexity. It goes without saying

    Unless, of course, one is bound and determined to make something sound much more "complex" than it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I think you're pretending that you make some sort of sense, which you don't. I have no "love toy". No dog in any fight. No team. No loyalty to any inanimate object. It's hard for a Pre Defense Force captain like yourself to understand, I am sure. But I have repeatedly asserted that I like Android and WebOS. Those are the only devices I use regularly. I have an older iPod Touch that pretty much my wife uses exclusively now, and even then, only as a media player. I don't need it and don't want it.

    Even if I did, who cares? The idea of you challenging anyone's objectivity or you mocking someone loving a device is a delicious, ironic joke.
    Pre Defense Force Captain... Uh-huh, you do sound like you have "no dog in the fight" (that was sarcasm). You appoint me "captain" of a non-entity, and you have "no dog in any fight". Well, I'm certainly convinced.

    BTW, I never pretended to be "objective". It's a Palm Pre forum. However, you won't find post after post from me running down a device. Yep, I know, you're going to go looking now to prove me wrong, but they're not there. I've said over and over people should buy what they like. Someone else preferring another device doesn't make mine any less usable.

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