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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    Apps really are the only reason the iPhone is what it is. It sells phones because of apps. You never see an iPhone commercial that talks about built in features of the OS. No one cares.
    TRANSLATION: The only thing good about the iPhone is its apps - that's why Apple only sells 25+ million of them each year.

    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    This is why WebOs (with HP's help) will always be leaps and bounds ahead of iPhone OS.
    Wouldn't WebOS have to at least catch up first before it can "always be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone OS?" Or do you have some obscure metric you use to compare the two devices like # of homebrew patches or number of keyboard slider extensions or some other equally "pertinent" factor?

    It's possible WebOS might start coming around a la Android, but right now, as the one year anniversary of the Pre's release (and the 18 month anniversary of it's flashy announcement) approaches, WebOS sales dont even make a measurable contribution to the "Other" column of a "Number of Units Sold by OS" bar chart.
  2. #22  
    i love my pre n have had all kind of different phones but none have done what the pre has done for me!!! the only thing the iphone has better is the trapster app where it shows the actual cops in the area thats it!!!
  3. #23  
    webos is the best phone os i've used! i've had an iphone and blackberry. i feel it takes the best of both, improves them, and makes it all flow real well.

    definitely a winner if they can keep up development. let's hope HP goes to work right away!
  4. #24  
    If you have seen my posts..you know that I don't like are want any other phone except my palm pre/plus. (Especially the Iphone)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    TRANSLATION: The only thing good about the iPhone is its apps - that's why Apple only sells 25+ million of them each year.
    So you are telling me that people buy the iPhone because it's pretty? Come on. They sell phones because of the apps. If the iPhone had 2500 apps, it would never sell 25 million a year.

    Wouldn't WebOS have to at least catch up first before it can "always be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone OS?" Or do you have some obscure metric you use to compare the two devices like # of homebrew patches or number of keyboard slider extensions or some other equally "pertinent" factor?

    It's possible WebOS might start coming around a la Android, but right now, as the one year anniversary of the Pre's release (and the 18 month anniversary of it's flashy announcement) approaches, WebOS sales dont even make a measurable contribution to the "Other" column of a "Number of Units Sold by OS" bar chart.
    Units sold? Again I say if WebOs had 150,000 apps, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That is why I said with HP's help and a strong base of users/developers there is more upside to WebOs. WebOs is the better OS in all categories except one.... APPS.

    An open OS will always win over the closed OS. Open OS's with owners that encourage hacking/patching will always provide the innovation. That is why Android has caught up to Apple, and why HP can and will boost WebOs the same way.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's not just apps, apps, and apps. For better or for worse, iPhone is more than a product name, but also a standard for a smooth and intuitive experience where stuff just works. WebOS, while intuitive, is not smooth as of yet with the OS comparatively slow, video recording glitchy, picture albums laggy, and stutters and memory issues across the OS.
    Would you buy an iPhone if it didn't have apps? I agree there is some lag to WebOs, but it is a newer OS. It does more, and it will be better with a faster processor.

    Apple's experience hides all of that away so users don't have to manage memory before and after playing a 3D game, or so that they can easily swipe through photos albums or let friends do it rather than having to wait for each individual picture to render. Video recording works instead of having random freezes, glitches, and pauses. It was polished from day one, and every time Apple adds a feature like video recording, it, too, is polished. WebOS cannot say the same.

    Now, Apple's "multitasking" is as clunky as they come, but when it hits the public, almost no one will be compelled to jailbreak their device to install a Jstop equivalent to eliminate "errors". And you can bet no one is going to go to start an iPhone app and have the device tell them they need to close some programs first if THEY HAVE NONE OPEN.
    Now, I may be in the minority, but I have never experienced issues with Video on the Pre... (other than uploading.... freaking limits )

    I would prefer a sometimes laggy multitasking OS to a speedy OS that only saves the state of my programs.

    Either way, I didn't intend to go all fan boy on this. Heaven knows I wanted an iPhone prior to WebOs, but not anymore.
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  7. #27  
    I DO!!

    Can not stand the rotten fruit and it will always be like that......
  8. nimra's Avatar
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    #28  
    I have an ipod touch, and did get quite some apps onto it, but now after having webOS it's borrrrrring... too much work - but the one thing which I still miss is all the dictionaries etc für webOS, slovo ED, Brockhaus, Pocket Lingo, Duden and Repligo...which I all have on Classic but this is just not the same - but Iphone, no thanks!
    Pre3/TP 16GB, Palm Pre Plus, Palm Pixi Plus, Palm Pre, Centro, Treo 680, Treo 650, Palm T3, Treo 270
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    Would you buy an iPhone if it didn't have apps? I agree there is some lag to WebOs, but it is a newer OS. It does more, and it will be better with a faster processor.
    I probably wouldn't buy one with apps, but I seem to remember Apple selling SEVERAL million iPhones with no apps whatsoever.

    Now, I may be in the minority, but I have never experienced issues with Video on the Pre... (other than uploading.... freaking limits )

    I would prefer a sometimes laggy multitasking OS to a speedy OS that only saves the state of my programs.

    Either way, I didn't intend to go all fan boy on this. Heaven knows I wanted an iPhone prior to WebOs, but not anymore.
    Hey, I don't "want" iPhoneOS either. I like not wading through rows of icons and I like visual multitasking, and I DEFINITELY like the notifications of WebOS and Android much, much better...

    BUT, as I said, it's easy to see why iPhone is wiping the floor with most of the competition. They have a smooth experience that just works with hardware that works. You MIGHT get the same from Palm....if you're lucky. It's inconsistent from one handset to the next. Some launch day Pres are still going strong. Some are on 10-11 replacements. Some are prone to "Too Many cards". Some aren't. Pre can do a bunch of stuff Pixi can't. Pre Pluses can do things regular Pre can't. Some Pres can do things others can't.

    It's a crapshoot. Every iPhone or iPod touch I have seen works just like the one before it. That matters a lot to people. Moreso than multitasking, synergy, apps, or any of this stuff.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Really? You think the app store should make that decision for the consumer?
    no, I would expect that the spots go to apps that are highly reviewed. I don't consider having to sift through 30 apps, 28 of which are probably crap, to be a worthwile use of my time.
  11. solarus's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's not just apps, apps, and apps. For better or for worse, iPhone is more than a product name, but also a standard for a smooth and intuitive experience where stuff just works. WebOS, while intuitive, is not smooth as of yet with the OS comparatively slow, video recording glitchy, picture albums laggy, and stutters and memory issues across the OS.

    Apple's experience hides all of that away so users don't have to manage memory before and after playing a 3D game, or so that they can easily swipe through photos albums or let friends do it rather than having to wait for each individual picture to render. Video recording works instead of having random freezes, glitches, and pauses. It was polished from day one, and every time Apple adds a feature like video recording, it, too, is polished. WebOS cannot say the same.

    Now, Apple's "multitasking" is as clunky as they come, but when it hits the public, almost no one will be compelled to jailbreak their device to install a Jstop equivalent to eliminate "errors". And you can bet no one is going to go to start an iPhone app and have the device tell them they need to close some programs first if THEY HAVE NONE OPEN.
    You are correct in regards to the Pre but every issue you just mentioned boils down to memory management - the iPhone does manage memory better than WebOS. This is an area I would love to see Palm improve.

    While iPhone OS "just works" in general, is smooth flowing, and speedy it is debatable whether or not its as intuitive as WebOS. You didn't exactly paint an accurate picture of iPhone OS and its software upgrade quality either - you failed to mention the host of problems that comes along with most iPhone updates. To name just a few:
    - v3.2 had major problems with Safari.
    - v3.1.1 had battery issues.
    - v3.1 had issues with the sleep and home button not always working, restore loops, even bricked phones.
    - v2.2 had SIM card errors and Internet connectivity issues between Edge and 3G.

    Not exactly the smooth problem free ride you implied in your post. The iPhone has a much better reputation for just working, but in reality I would say they are not significantly better (probably about even really) than most other OS's out there as it relates to problems with updates.

    I too must be in the minority - never had any issues with video either.
    Last edited by solarus; 05/25/2010 at 02:31 PM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I probably wouldn't buy one with apps, but I seem to remember Apple selling SEVERAL million iPhones with no apps whatsoever.
    5 million iPhones sold prior to the SDK. That accounts for each of the crazy fan boys.

    You will notice that the sales of the iPhone skyrocketed after the app store-



    Do you see q2 and q3 08? Very small sales increase, then the App Catalog gets going and in q4 they sell nearly 10 million phones. That is not a coincidence. Without the app catalog, and thus without apps, iPhone would be a second rate OS. It's all about the apps.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    Apps really are the only reason the iPhone is what it is. It sells phones because of apps. You never see an iPhone commercial that talks about built in features of the OS. No one cares.
    Not entirely true. I agree that apps are hugely important to the Iphone success. But Iphone was built directly on the massive success of the ipod as a music player and it continues to derive massive benefit in terms to Apple from selling music and providing a platform to take all their music with them. It's very much still a music player, video player, podcast vehicle, and a phone. Apple sold wildly before apps came out also because it was the killer phone music player all in one device.

    And i think the reason you don't see commercials about built in features is because the ipod had been around for quite a while before the iphone so you already had years of advertising the ipod as a music player/podcast platform. I even think video playback was around before the iphone but i'm not positive on that one. When they added video recording you saw commercials about it though. That's a major feature. Another thing is do you really need to have a ton of commercials saying, "you can text with an iphone" when pretty much every dumbphone has been able to do that for 10 years? It's hardly a wow feature. It's not something new. the reason they like advertising about apps now is apps always change. so you can focus on the fact that you have an answer for everything; "There's an app for that" or just the specifics of the given app, or both.

    The big selling point of Apple is that it sells an experience. Take Nike. Nike tends not to focus on the mechanics of a shoe but on the experience of competing, training, winning, getting fit, etc. They rarely just go yeah the shoe has blah blah new technology. They tend to sell you on the Nike idea. take the classic nike revolution ad from the 80s it's just music and people playing sports to the track "revolution". They are selling on on that Nike experience of being different the the pack. of revolution from the norm

    Apple sell experience too. It's products all have a look and feel that is consistent and sleek and simple. The user interface are simplistic because contrary to the tech geeks that's what most people like. It's why most people tend to use Itunes and not Foobar. The experience that apple sells is to be different. "Think different" is their slogan. They are saying if you're with us you're elite and at a higher level the the others. Their "think different" tag launch this veiled idea that Apple sell what the others don't. A different product. The other computers are beige, ours is white or orange. The other laptops look industrial and utilitarian ours looks like art. The other music players and phones are hard to use ours is simple and visual. Apple in general provide an experience when you enter the entire apple world and that sells. Like you can buy a Ford that has most of the same luxury items of some Mercedes. But people buy Mercedes cause of the experience of owning that brand of car. Trying to say Apple sucks is like a Ford guy trying to tell someone it's cars are better then a Benz. The Benz buyer doesn't care cause the Benz expereinece is better and they want more then just more horsepower or a given stat, looked at in a vacuum, like a better camera or something to bring it back to iphones. The 7 million people buying iphones don't care about that one phone doesn't multitask as good as another unless that is their defining experiences. Their analysis is it good enough or does it ruin the experience enough for me to change away from the other aspects of the apple experience that attracted me, like say the overall ease of use, convenience, wealth of apps, etc. WebOS, is full of great ideas, like swipe gestures and cards but it's yet to develop a coherent experience that moves more then palm enthusiasts and early adopters like us. And it's stupid original attempt to create that weird Zen, my phone is possessed and read my mind experience was just an overthought bad idea.

    So the challenge for WebOS is to create a competing experience to the Apple experience, and the Rimm expererience, And the "Google web products experiences." So what's the HP experience? Don't know yet. They make printer and a **** load of servers and the beige boxes that companies like Apple wanted you to "think different" from. HP is hugely successful though so it's not like it's all doom and gloom for palm.

    The other thing is if Apps really are the only reason Apple sells like 7 million phones every quarter. Why in God's name isn't Apps priority number one for webOS? Maybe it is. Maybe they can't afford to pay for more companies like i'd expect is how they got launch apps. Because the apps coming out now for webos suck. There are pretty much zero major companies releasing webos apps. so i do think apps are a huge deal, and should be a focus for webos but i don't think it's the only reason.

    sorry this is long.
  14. squeff's Avatar
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    #34  
    I've had a Pre for almost a year, now. I also recently purchased an iPod Touch.

    There are some things about the iPod that I like better. It seems more polished. Little things in the UI, like fades, the flipping card effect, and how they handle pick-lists make the whole thing seem more polished. After using my iPod, using the Pre feels like I'm using something clunky, rough, and amateurish. It feels like I'm using Windows 3.0.

    While I have no doubt that there are thousands of junky apps, the handful of free apps I've downloaded thus far seem so more nicer than their webOS counterparts. That is, if a webOS counterpart exists.

    OK, before anyone accuses me of being a "fan boy," let me say that my Pre still "wins" because, where is lacks in polish, it more than makes up in functionality. While I sometimes find the Pre's screen too small, I prefer its smaller size -- it's very pocket-able and palm-able (no pun intended).

    I find myself trying to backswipe on the iPod. I find myself wondering why I must exit from an app to run another. I miss the multitasking (at the very least, the ability to move between apps without exiting) of the Pre.

    While I don't do much with the iPod that involves notifications, I love webOS notifications.

    But then again, the Pre is s-l-o-w, has terrible battery life, and I've yet to crash the iPod (whereas I get some from of crash -- some requiring a battery pull -- at least 3 or 4 times a week).

    Once webOS is 3 or 4 years old, maybe there will be hardware that really supports it, better battery life, more UI polish, and more applications.

    Until then, I wish for the love-child of the iPhone/iPod and the Pre.
  15. #35  
    This guy:



    Palm Pre







    This guy:



    Apple iPhone
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treiz View Post
    no, I would expect that the spots go to apps that are highly reviewed. I don't consider having to sift through 30 apps, 28 of which are probably crap, to be a worthwile use of my time.
    So, then who reviews them if they are "highly reviewed?" And how did they get seen, in order to get reviewed in the first place?

    You want a special app catalog, that is subset of the main catalog?


    It's called Top Sellers, by category. LOL
  17. stockh's Avatar
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    #37  
    Can anyone really compare different os's if they only played around with one for only a few minutes? days?

    For a true comparison I would love to hear from actual users that have used each os for at least a few months.
  18. #38  
    I have. My SO has to stay on Sprint - while he liked my iPhone, he wanted/needed to be on Sprint. So *I* talked him into his first smart phone, the Pre.

    Three pres later, he is back on a dumb phone. Alarms not ringing, lag, restarts, chintzy casing, the works. The plasticky feel is what really got him, even though he liked the overall shape.

    (Caveat, I found this place trying to trouble shoot his issues, but I/we are not facile enough to use preware and patches. And didn't think we should have to for a $300 phone....)
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    Not entirely true. I agree that apps are hugely important to the Iphone success. But Iphone was built directly on the massive success of the ipod
    True. Apple sold 5 million iPhones based on that. Then they sold 10 times that by having tons of apps. iPhone would have fallen flat on its face otherwise.

    (I was going to quote all of your post, but it is way long. )

    The iPhone is experience driven, true. That experience of being an iPod and a phone sold 5 million iPhones. The experience of being an app machine that solves your everyday needs sells many times that.

    Without the apps, you have a big screen iPod that you can talk on. Cool, yes. Worth 200 bucks, no.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 05/25/2010 at 03:23 PM.
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  20. #40  
    @finngirl

    1) we heard you the first time

    2) Preware / homebrew is soooo simple. Really. I resisted for the longest and finally decided to give it a try. Very quick. Directions are STEP by STEP and clear. It makes a HUGE difference in the experience.
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