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  1. #21  
    I don't believe HP will at all move forward with phones. None of their pressers or quotes have even remotely indicated they are planning on new phones. It's all been talk of tablet, and WebOS, and now printers.

    The most positive thing about new phones was from Rubenstein talking about his "pipeline" but that could just been the same phones reconfigured for new carriers as well as a slate.

    And that's Rubenstein anyhow, who isn't driving the WebOS bus anymore.

    HP has been very direct about their plans for tablets and printers; intentionally vague about smart phones.
  2. urkel's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    One more mistake - similar to the other poster... THEY are not playing the discount game, the phone carrier is. The phones get discounted at end of life to clear shelf space. Have you ever seen a new smartphone start at $29.00?
    Nope. Ive only seen it when a phone can't sell at the price the manufacturer wants to sell it at.

    So the fact that it required such severe discounts to tempt the mass market to buy not only shows carriers desperation to unload it, but the consumers lack of interest in even considering it. Palm has to find a way to reverse this... Again.
  3. #23  
    You folks really need to get a life and worry about more important things in life, besides a freaking cell phone. It is a CELL PHONE, not the Holy Grail.
  4. urkel's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by JimOhara View Post
    You folks really need to get a life and worry about more important things in life, besides a freaking cell phone. It is a CELL PHONE, not the Holy Grail.
    What sort of discussions would you prefer to exist on a cellphone-centric forum?

    As for the Holy Grail, then yes. A perfect cellphone is the holy Grail. The cell phone has become the most personal and useful device we possess which is why people have such strong feelings about them. But I'm sure you're already aware of that since you choose to register and participate in discussions on a cellphone site...
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    wow I disagree.

    5.I shouldnt even comment on this statment. You have to ask yourself this, then why would the #1 leader in laptops (where HP has focused their attention) and with bookooo money buy a mobile company/OS. A company as big, and as wealthy as HP does not enter markets to compete (look at there history please) HP enters markets to dominate.
    Number one in laptops? Do you say that because they sell the most laptops? HP's cheapest laptop starts at $280 and Apple's cheapest laptop starts at $999. Does it take a genius to figure out that cheaper stuff sells more than expensive stuff?

    If HP would dare to sell their laptops spec for spec at the same price as Apple sells their laptops, their sales would fall thru the floor. There is no dominating when the only way to get people to buy your products is to undercut the premium competition.

    By your logic Timex must be the world leader in watches since they sell more than Rolex, Patek Philippe, and Tag Heuer many multiples over. I guess we should tell all the watch collectors of the world to stop seeking those vintage Patek Philippe watches from the 70s and only buy Timex watches because they are the leader because they sell more.

    I guess you were one of the idiots that was shouting how Android phones outsold the iPhone this past quarter. Meanwhile, Verizon is selling Android phones buy one get one free. Gee, I wonder why Android sold so well.

    Bookooo money? According to this website:

    Deals may rise as tech firms overflow with cash - MarketWatch

    Apple is the the top company for cash. A whopping $41.7 billion. HP didn't even make the list. So, HP spent about 10% of their cash to acquire a dying company. Apple has over 3 times the amount of cash that HP does. So, HP expends all this effort selling all those cheap laptops and thats all they have to show for it. Apple is number one where it matters, in having the most cash. HP can have all the best seller lists it wants selling cheap crap. Apple doesn't want it.

    If HP were such a dominating company then why doesn't Wall St recognize it? HPs market value is $110 billion and Apple's is $230 billion. Apple is worth over twice what Hp is worth. Could it be because Apple actually makes things in their vision? Like the iPad. Whereas HP just resells other company's crap (Windows). Fails to deliver (HP Slate). Can't make their own phone OS (buys WebOS). Yeah that's a real dominating company. Apple should be real scared. LOL!!!!!!!

    Looking at HP's history, the only thing they ever dominated in was selling inkjet cartridges at such a huge profit margin that for a while the majority of their profits came from inkjet cartridges. Yeah, that's some serious dominating.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by JimOhara View Post
    You folks really need to get a life and worry about more important things in life, besides a freaking cell phone. It is a CELL PHONE, not the Holy Grail.
    Actually they are rather advanced versatile little computers than can also make and receive calls.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  7. cooknn's Avatar
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    #27  
    When the Palm pre was released the hardware platform was state of the art - on par with the iPhone 3GS. The build quality sucked however, which could have led to many of the problems that followed. I believe the forthcoming webOS phone will not only be cutting edge in design, but also in spec's, utilizing the OMAP4 platform and including many of its available bells and whistles.
    Dave Cook | Fort Myers, Florida | Palm pre | Touchstone | Vaja iVolution Deco
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Number one in laptops? Do you say that because they sell the most laptops? HP's cheapest laptop starts at $280 and Apple's cheapest laptop starts at $999. Does it take a genius to figure out that cheaper stuff sells more than expensive stuff?

    If HP would dare to sell their laptops spec for spec at the same price as Apple sells their laptops, their sales would fall thru the floor. There is no dominating when the only way to get people to buy your products is to undercut the premium competition.

    By your logic Timex must be the world leader in watches since they sell more than Rolex, Patek Philippe, and Tag Heuer many multiples over. I guess we should tell all the watch collectors of the world to stop seeking those vintage Patek Philippe watches from the 70s and only buy Timex watches because they are the leader because they sell more.

    I guess you were one of the idiots that was shouting how Android phones outsold the iPhone this past quarter. Meanwhile, Verizon is selling Android phones buy one get one free. Gee, I wonder why Android sold so well.

    Bookooo money? According to this website:

    Deals may rise as tech firms overflow with cash - MarketWatch

    Apple is the the top company for cash. A whopping $41.7 billion. HP didn't even make the list. So, HP spent about 10% of their cash to acquire a dying company. Apple has over 3 times the amount of cash that HP does. So, HP expends all this effort selling all those cheap laptops and thats all they have to show for it. Apple is number one where it matters, in having the most cash. HP can have all the best seller lists it wants selling cheap crap. Apple doesn't want it.

    If HP were such a dominating company then why doesn't Wall St recognize it? HPs market value is $110 billion and Apple's is $230 billion. Apple is worth over twice what Hp is worth. Could it be because Apple actually makes things in their vision? Like the iPad. Whereas HP just resells other company's crap (Windows). Fails to deliver (HP Slate). Can't make their own phone OS (buys WebOS). Yeah that's a real dominating company. Apple should be real scared. LOL!!!!!!!

    Looking at HP's history, the only thing they ever dominated in was selling inkjet cartridges at such a huge profit margin that for a while the majority of their profits came from inkjet cartridges. Yeah, that's some serious dominating.

    LOL, you actually used the word 'premium' to describe Apple hardware? Do you know what's under that nice pretty artsy fartsy skin that seem to attract so many like bait? Pretty much the same stuff that's found in any other major brand. There is no special Steve Jobs-certified manufacturing plant anywhere. They basically put a nice skin on the same stuff and sell them at a 'premium'. So be careful when you throw around the 'cheap' word. If Microsoft didn't pump money into Apple, they'd be dead a long time ago.
    Last edited by darreno1; 05/18/2010 at 07:41 PM.
    Sony Clie --> Tungsten t2 --> iPhone3g --> Palm Pre --> Droid
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Nope. Ive only seen it when a phone can't sell at the price the manufacturer wants to sell it at.

    So the fact that it required such severe discounts to tempt the mass market to buy not only shows carriers desperation to unload it, but the consumers lack of interest in even considering it. Palm has to find a way to reverse this... Again.

    They ALL get there eventually (except for Apple). AGAIN (repeat after me) it is the carrier who sets the discount prices. I've seen Blackberries and Droids drop down to a low price (or even free). It's the the nature of the business. Got my last Curve for free and can easily do this with one of the lower end Droids. It is a common mistake to confuse cost with value.

    No argument about better build quality, that's my entire point. Everyone keep ranting about killer specs... but the quality of the product produced is much more important than the specs IMHO

    Build me a 3.5'' screen sized device with decent speed and a 48 hour battery life and it will do better long term than a device with a 4" screen, blazing speed, and a 6 hour battery life.

    Think about it, why is Apple successful? , Their stuff does not sport the absolute best of hardware (spec-wise), but it is a very reliable product. It works.
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    #30  
    Yes omap4 please, the most highend....it will even come with a muzzle to keep that little snapdragon quiet.

    I could be wrong tho and palm may go the route of the quail-comm cpu as they did in the pixi.....i hope not.
  11.    #31  
    HP didn't get as big as it is by wasting money on questionable projects. They aren't a smartphone company right now. I'm not saying that they will let the same thing happen to the Pre/Pixi that they did with the iPaq, however, they obviously didn't have any major plans for the iPaq even though it was one of the stronger brands in the PDA space.

    My guess is that they are going to take a hard look at the smartphone market and decide whether they can be competitive or not. One of the options would definitely be to license webOS out to generic Chinese smartphone manufacturers for non-US markets. To me, it's not a given that they are wanting to compete head-to-head with Apple, RIM, HTC, and Microsoft for smartphone innovation.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    Dude,
    You should read my response a little more carefully. The response was not about the quality of the product. It's about this idea that we need to outdo everyone on hardware spec alone. If, as the OP contends, the Palm line has lost it's luster because of faulty releases, that need to be fixed first.

    If you are disappointed with your $149.00 dollar Pre, will you want to take a chance on a $400.00 Pre 2 (or C40, or whatever)? Nobody said build crap, if you build a quality product at any price range... they will come. While you count the millions who are buying iPads or iPhones, don't forget the tens of millions who just won't pony up for a 600-900 dollar 'glorified smartphone'.
    Actually, you should reread what I wrote. My point was that price should be a secondary or tertiary concern, not that it shouldn't be a concern at all. But the quality has to come first.

    Just consider the Asian car makers. At one time ALL of the were considered to be cheap knock-offs of "superior" American cars. Now they are considered the better made cars in the world. Their luxury lines came MUCH later. They built their business not by building crappy "me too" imitations of Cadillacs and BMW's but by making sure everything they made, from economy to mid-scale was solidly reliable.
    The problem is, Palm started as a more prestigious brand, and has now tarnished it with crappy hardware and dismal sales. Asian car makers started from the bottom and worked their way up. Despite acquisition from HP, Palm is still in a downward trajectory for the moment. And HP's money and intention to scale WebOS on to everything from slates to printers is no guarantee that they will change Palm's smartphone fortunes.

    Another flaw in your reasoning. Last year the hardware was adequate (if it worked as it was supposed to), of course after a year new stuff will needed. Nobody is saying that they should repackage last years hardware and try to sell it as current. But, even if it's awesome spec-wise, if it is not well built, it may be the final nail in the Palm coffin.
    No disagreement, except to say that the hardware was inadequate, as evidenced by Palm increasing RAM and storage the first chance they got. That's about as explicit an admission of failure as you can get from a manufacturer. Keep in mind, iPhone didn't get a spec bump until they had a significantly different OS two years later. WebOS is still in the beta-ish 1.x doldrums.

    I haven't met a person who hasn't been impressed on seeing my Pre, (a few even went and got their own) even un-doctored... but they heard so much negative about guess what... BUILD QUALITY.

    Substance over style always wins long term. Are you even a Pre user?
    Surely you jest regarding both of your final sentences. History is littered with "substantive", better-spec'd formats and devices that lost to better-packaged/advertised competition. This is ESPECIALLY true in the tech industry.

    BTW: There are a lot of people who prefer the Pixi (save for poor performing hardware). What you personally like is not what everyone needs.
    That's awesome. Lots of people (myself included) liked the Centro, but Palm's financials didn't particularly care for that rather low margin device. The Pixi is now free almost everywhere you look. Too bad it's not even selling like the Centro.
  13. cooknn's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bdog421 View Post
    Yes omap4 please, the most highend....it will even come with a muzzle to keep that little snapdragon quiet.

    I could be wrong tho and palm may go the route of the quail-comm cpu as they did in the pixi.....i hope not.
    No way. It will be cutting edge. I just hope they use another company other than Chi Mei Communication Systems (Foxcon) to manufacture it. Or pay them more to do it
    Dave Cook | Fort Myers, Florida | Palm pre | Touchstone | Vaja iVolution Deco
  14. #34  
    But due see me starting a thread about my disapointment in the next OS Phone when it is not even on the horizon yet???? I don't think so
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooknn View Post
    No way. It will be cutting edge. I just hope they use another company other than Chi Mei Communication Systems (Foxcon) to manufacture it. Or pay them more to do it
    Foxconn manufactures the iPod, iPhone, and iPad, also. Apple doesn't seem to have a big problem with that hardware. The problem with the Pre hardware is the design.
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Foxconn manufactures the iPod, iPhone, and iPad, also. Apple doesn't seem to have a big problem with that hardware. The problem with the Pre hardware is the design.
    Not many moving parts with the Apple lineup you mentioned. I used to hangout on MacRumors.com and I can tell you that Apple has had plenty of problems with QC in the past.

    That being said, I also believe that there was a failure in the design process. Specifically with the track and roller mechanism for opening and closing the device. It just seems like they used cheap components. I suppose if Palm would have demanded quality they could have received it from Foxcon. I guess the dollar signs were too hard to ignore with all the money they thought they would save. I hope they learned their lesson.
    Dave Cook | Fort Myers, Florida | Palm pre | Touchstone | Vaja iVolution Deco
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    This is exactly the sort of warped thinking that led to the mistake that is the Pixi.

    It's a mindset that reflects where the market was around the time the iPhone hit. But these days, "affordability" shouldn't be a primary goal. The hottest-selling consumer electronic device these days is a $500-900 tablet that runs a glorified smartphone OS. And that's in a bum economy.

    People - even ordinary, non-techie people - will cough up the money for something that compels them. Being a layman or geek doesn't really make a difference. WebOS has not been compelling to the mass market yet, and that is largely because it is on hardware that REpels people.

    That should be the goal, and price shouldn't be a limitation. Final customer pricing will take care of itself. Competition is so fast and furious these days that the $0-$49 range is littered with handsets like the Palm Pre Plus, iPhone 3G, and HTC Droid Eris that absolutely smoke handsets like the Pixi.

    Palm and HP's aim - at all costs - should be make a compelling device. Everything comes second to that.
    We've talked about this before. The whole mindset and logic behind the Pixi was flawed from the start. Aiming for lowend is flawed.

    Hindsight is easy. But some of us have been hammering this since dayone of even hearing about a Pixi. It was perhaps the biggest reason i sold my Palm stock. Well that and after hearing about the decrease in sales in two consecutive quarters on Sprint.

    Many have blamed bad commercials for Palm's dismal performance. Or the carrier, or anyone else but Palm. It starts with Ruby.

    His plan was always getting to scale. You can't do that with a beta like product. It needed to bake. It needed high end hardware from the get go. If we consider HTC and Apple premium brands, then Palm needed to aim super premium.

    1. I would say a slab should've been the first phone. It's what many expected before the Pre's unveiling. Thin, no buttons, glass screen, 512 RAM, same processor, 32gb at least, etc.

    2. Then charge that 199 or 249..and insist on no price drops from any of your retailers unless you ok it. That would've been the hit Sprint expected. Fantastic hardware makes up a lot for a OS that needs updates. We learned that with first iphone.

    3. Don't expand carriers til you've achieved some expected results on your launch carrier. But go to new markets. Focusing on Verizon or AT&T when you're already on Sprint is silly. It's a marathon and additional sales will be weak and not worth it. If you're a true hit, you'll have even greater muscle to flex with Sprint. (Apple makes AT&T bend over).

    This June should've been an improved slab on Sprint as Palm continued to be the premium flagship. Instead there's "Plus" versions launching on V or AT&T..both launches a mistake..exclusives getting in the way and resulting in poor user experience. There's still a Pixi floating around. Your launch carrier is whining how things didn't work out. Verizon has dropped the ball you say. It's everyone's fault but Palm's it seems. HP will save the day.

    The final joke is that Ruby still hasn't learned. He still talks of getting to scale with the Pre having already failed multiple times with some carriers having to resort to giving services away with firesale pricing.
  18. urkel's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by JimOhara View Post
    But due see me starting a thread about my disapointment in the next OS Phone when it is not even on the horizon yet???? I don't think so
    Who are you and why should people be waiting for what you are going to say?
  19. MiguelATF's Avatar
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    #39  
    I have to agree with almost everything UntidyGuy has said in this interesting thread.

    Of course I love my PRE - if I didn't, I wouldn't use it on a daily basis.

    But 99 per cent of the people I know - most of whom are smart and semi-technologically sophisticated - not only love their iPhones, Droids and Blackberries - but they all think the Palm Pre is a dead platform.

    It's unclear what HP has in mind - but Palm's history is an interesting roller-coaster ride of innovation and dreadful marketing missteps - and HP though it's successful isn't known for the kind of hip cutting-edge innovation which makes people sit up and say WOW! That is COOl! I want one of THOSE!

    My son loves his iPod touch because it's WAY COOL.

    Before it came out, the Pre had a huge amount of positive Hype and it almost had the serious Coolness factor down.

    It's an open question whether the Suits at HP - and the current powers-that-be (whoever they really are at Palm) - are either willing or able to devote the time/energy/resources to trying to create that again.

    All the talk out of HP has been about using WebOS in other devices. There are only vague comments about the smartphone market - but HP's past efforts (the iPaq) never set the world on fire either via originality, desirability or coolness.

    I want the reborn Palm to succeed. But I'm curious what will really happen.

    Miguel

    Miguel Tejada-Flores
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    and occasionally Guadalajara
    FrankenPre PRE 2 on Sprint (in USA)
    Original PRE on Telcel (en Mexico)
    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
  20. #40  
    i certainly don't think that Palm should target the middle or low end market. The current trend is for people who generally shop in those markets are moving toward high end devices. teens and their parents used to be content with their feature phones, now they want iphones and droids just like everyone else.

    Palm needs to create a device that garners a lot of attention. As seen in the case of Motorola, the tech world can be pretty forgiving of an manufacturers past if they put out a top notch device. I think Palm might be better off than Pre-Droid-Motorola because instead of having negative mind-share, Palm just doesn't have mind-share at all. Same with HP (in the mobile space). So for many, HP and Palm have an opportunity to make a "1st impression"
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