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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Willmays87 View Post
    first off android is a proven OS and webos is not. Secondly hardware DOES matter that's why so many people are leaving webos to get android. Lastly people will be back ONLY IF palms "HARDWARE" is up to standards and as good as the evo is now. Meanin if 2011's palm fone is as good as 2010's evo then ppl will come back to webos. And who knows another OS could come along or another NEW phone that's not webos and people will get that and then webos will be irrelevant. So for ppl to say "they know ppl will be back to webos" is a weird statement becuz you don't kno for certain this is the case...
    This is just silly. Both Android and webOS are proven. Both have long and prosperous futures. Both can even make phone calls.
  2. #42  
    The Pre is modern and isn't outdated.

    There's no need to "defend" the Pre, I just think it's funny that folks keep insisting that life here in Palmland is hell, but Android delivers nirvana.

    If constant crashes, inconsistent hardware, Gameloft apps that don't work, frustrating onscreen keyboards, poor UI and infrequent OS updates don't bother you, then by all means consider Android. But please stop pretending that the experience is anything close to what a current webOS device provides.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Ironically, if folks jump for an Evo, they'll be getting an obsolete OS out of the box -- Android 2.1, which doesn't support Flash nor the latest features being prepped for 2.2. Further, given that Android phones don't usually get regular OS updates (the HTC Hero, for instance, is still on 1.6 on Sprint), Pre users will be running Flash long before "superior EVO hardware" is. :P
    Ok, buddy. The Evo has Flash Lite NOW. The Pre will get Flash...at some point in the distant future.

    The Evo has next generation hardware NOW. WebOS will release a handset with comparable specs and build quality.....at some point in the future. Maybe/

    Android OS updates can easily be added to any rooted Android phone via XDA forums, which functions much like our homebrew community, NOW.

    What part of any of that is "obsolete" again?
  4. #44  
    Flash Lite isn't obsolete?

    And yes, I am aware that someone with geek orientation (who doesn't mind the risk of bricking his phone) can install unstable, crash-prone hacked "updates" of Android to his phone.

    But that's not a decent user experience for the vast majority of users.

    The vast majority of users aren't going to root their phones, compile special builds of Android that sorta-work (but crash all the time) to get the latest version for their hardware, etc.

    Even comparing XDA to homebrew is a bit silly, because Preware is much easier to use, but I don't use homebrew either. I want my phone to work and have the latest updates without hacking. With webOS, it does. Not so with Android.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok, buddy. WebOS will release a handset with comparable specs and build quality.....at some point in the future. Maybe/
    Er, common sense (and quotes from Palm and HP mgt) as well as the over $1 billion check being delivered by HP stockholders to Palm stockholders in about two months suggest updated hardware should be out in the near term so I am waiting for a few months to get more information before I commit to another 1 year or 2 year hardware purchase.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    The Pre is modern and isn't outdated.

    There's no need to "defend" the Pre, I just think it's funny that folks keep insisting that life here in Palmland is hell, but Android delivers nirvana.

    If constant crashes, inconsistent hardware, Gameloft apps that don't work, frustrating onscreen keyboards, poor UI and infrequent OS updates don't bother you, then by all means consider Android. But please stop pretending that the experience is anything close to what a current webOS device provides.
    Speaking of pretending, please stop acting like Android is crash prone while WebOS is stable. I've had one random reset on my Sprint Hero since October, while the Pre has reset many, many times. I've NEVER had the Hero tell me it couldn't open an app or give me a "Too Many Cards" error while I am in an app. Pre does it all of the time. The onscreen keyboard of the Hero is actually quite nice and has far better text prediction and correction than the Pre. The OS is updated frequently with maintenance releases which are made available promptly from pretty much every carrier. Major releases take longer, but you can load up custom ROMs from their version of homebrew.

    But oh no...Gameloft apps don't work because Gameloft is too lazy to adapt their code for a different, non-PowerVR chipset. That's Android's fault. Good thing there are many other 3d games available, including ones ACTUALLY MADE FOR THE PLATFORM instead of lazily ported over.

    They are both very good OSes with respective pluses and minuses. Please don't pretend otherwise.
  7. #47  
    So to summarize your argument, the crashes, incompatibilities, freezes, lock-ups, lack of updates and app failures that are a daily part of Android use are the developers' and users' fault, not a fundamental flaw with the Android model. Nice!
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Flash Lite isn't obsolete?
    No. I don't actively use it on my Hero, but it's nice not to see blue symbols all over some Web pages.

    And yes, I am aware that someone with geek orientation (who doesn't mind the risk of bricking his phone) can install unstable, crash-prone hacked "updates" of Android to his phone.

    But that's not a decent user experience for the vast majority of users.

    The vast majority of users aren't going to root their phones, compile special builds of Android that sorta-work (but crash all the time) to get the latest version for their hardware, etc.

    Even comparing XDA to homebrew is a bit silly, because Preware is much easier to use, but I don't use homebrew either. I want my phone to work and have the latest updates without hacking. With webOS, it does. Not so with Android.
    What nonsense! Homebrew requires you plugging up to a computer, inputting the Konami code, downloading apps, and many other steps and resets before you are done. But it's so much easier than rooting and installing a custom ROM, right?

    PLEASE.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Er, common sense (and quotes from Palm and HP mgt) as well as the over $1 billion check being delivered by HP stockholders to Palm stockholders in about two months suggest updated hardware should be out in the near term so I am waiting for a few months to get more information before I commit to another 1 year or 2 year hardware purchase.
    New hardware is definitely guaranteed. New smartphone hardware with next generation specs and build quality comparable to HTC...NOT guaranteed. May not happen at all, hence "maybe".
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    So to summarize your argument, the crashes, incompatibilities, freezes, lock-ups, lack of updates and app failures that are a daily part of Android use are the developers' and users' fault, not a fundamental flaw with the Android model. Nice!
    Actually, these are mostly a figment of your imagination. I own an Android handset and have used it regularly for 7-8 months. Have you?
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What nonsense! Homebrew requires you plugging up to a computer, inputting the Konami code, downloading apps, and many other steps and resets before you are done. But it's so much easier than rooting and installing a custom ROM, right?
    Wow, so I need to install homebrew to get access to the latest webOS updates, the way that Android users have to install unstable hacked ROMs to get the latest Android updates? That's funny, I thought all I had to do was get the OTA update that's pushed out. :P

    I own an Android handset and have used it regularly for 7-8 months. Have you?
    I have owned (and/or presently own) a G1, a MyTouch 3G, a Samsung Behold 2, and a Sprint HTC Hero.

    The poor stability, frequent crashes, lack of updates without hacks, constant app incompatibilities (GameLoft as the latest example), lag and slowdowns, Exchange database corruption, etc. were a daily frustration with Android.

    I'm going to try a 2.1 device alongside my Pre, but Android will have had to have undergone a quantum leap in that time versus recent handsets in order to be classed as "usable."
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    New hardware is definitely guaranteed. New smartphone hardware with next generation specs and build quality comparable to HTC...NOT guaranteed. May not happen at all, hence "maybe".
    Sure, nothing may happen until it does but there is nothing in Palm's past or the remarks made by management that suggest that HP/Palm will make a radical departure from their current strategy to target the high end market. That is why I am waiting a few months to get clarification before I commit to another year or two on a new phone.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Wow, so I need to install homebrew to get access to the latest webOS updates, the way that Android users have to install unstable hacked ROMs to get the latest Android updates? That's funny, I thought all I had to do was get the OTA update that's pushed out. :P
    Unstable hacked ROMs....ah, the comedy. I didn't realize that overclocking, patches, themes, memory leaks, and frequent doctoring were so easy, stable and OTA.

    I have owned (and/or presently own) a G1, a MyTouch 3G, a Samsung Behold 2, and a Sprint HTC Hero.

    The poor stability, frequent crashes, lack of updates without hacks, constant app incompatibilities (GameLoft as the latest example), lag and slowdowns, Exchange database corruption, etc. were a daily frustration with Android.

    I'm going to try a 2.1 device alongside my Pre, but Android will have had to have undergone a quantum leap in that time versus recent handsets in order to be classed as "usable."
    Then, obviously we are each having "exceptional" experiences. You are experiencing a WebOS user experience I have not seen across seven different Pre phones and multiple OS versions. I am experiencing an Android experience that you are not seeing across however many handsets you have.

    But if I had to guess which of us was having the more typical experience based on sales, popularity, mindshare, and trajectory...I'd say mine was more par for the course.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Sure, nothing may happen until it does but there is nothing in Palm's past or the remarks made by management that suggest that HP/Palm will make a radical departure from their current strategy to target the high end market. That is why I am waiting a few months to get clarification before I commit to another year or two on a new phone.
    Palm targeted the "high end" market with the Pre. Remember Colligan saying it should cost more than iPhone because it's such a better product? HP has never put out exceptional high end smartphone hardware. Their iPaq products were solid, but unnoteworthy.

    So again...they will release another handset, but there are no indications beyond that.

    I'm waiting, too, however. No reason - especially as a Sprint customer - to rush into a new handset until I have a better idea what Windows Phone 7 and WebOS handsets might come down the pike.
  15. #55  
    By the way, in addition to my Pre+, I also carry a BlackBerry Curve for work. It's a tested and mature OS on rock-solid hardware that withstands drops and abuse like a hockey puck...

    ...and it crashes every 2 or 3 days. It gets really slow and laggy, and then I get the hourglass that won't go away until I pull the battery. It takes every but as long to boot back up as my Pre (apparently all smart phones boot from a floppy disk buried inside?).

    My point is, every smartphone crashes. Oh well. If you don't leave your Pre+ in dev mode all the time, that will help a lot. Also, there is a patch that will schedule a reboot of your phone so you can have it reset while you sleep. That also helps. Any time you do something with Preware, you should restart your phone. Annoying? Yurp. But is prevents restarts while you are talking to some one.

    All smartphones need to be rebooted and will occaisionally crash. Even the mature BlackBerry OS. Hey, Windows crashes, too. So does OSX (although Mac users generally deny that...).

    Crashes happen. Regularly restarting your PC has become a habit. Do the same with your smartphone regardless of which OS it runs. Life is short, use the reboot time to make eye-contact with someone you care about....
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Unstable hacked ROMs....ah, the comedy. I didn't realize that overclocking, patches, themes, memory leaks, and frequent doctoring were so easy, stable and OTA.
    I don't do any of those things on my Pre. I don't need to, since the Pre is usable out of the box.

    Not the case with Android. To get even basic updates of the OS without multi-month waits, you have to hack the phone. Not even remotely comparable.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Palm targeted the "high end" market with the Pre. Remember Colligan saying it should cost more than iPhone because it's such a better product? HP has never put out exceptional high end smartphone hardware. Their iPaq products were solid, but unnoteworthy.

    So again...they will release another handset, but there are no indications beyond that.

    I'm waiting, too, however. No reason - especially as a Sprint customer - to rush into a new handset until I have a better idea what Windows Phone 7 and WebOS handsets might come down the pike.
    Sure, makes sense, will be hard to know what they do until we get a list of specs and some user experiences
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I don't do any of those things on my Pre. I don't need to, since the Pre is usable out of the box.

    Not the case with Android. To get even basic updates of the OS without multi-month waits, you have to hack the phone. Not even remotely comparable.
    Sorry, but that's complete bollocks. My Hero had everything I wanted out of the box, had way more features than Pre out of the box, and had a maintenance release to fix the only noticeable bugs within 3 weeks.

    If I wanted anything beyond that, I had a kazillion stable ROMs to choose from. Never bothered. I have been waiting 11 months for some WebOS bugs to be fixed. Almost no one here runs a stock Pre. What does that say for how amazing the stock experience is?
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    There's no need to "defend" the Pre,.
    If you really believed that the Pre doesn't need to be defended then you wouldn't be ending every post you make with a slam on Android in order to lower the bar of what we should expect out of modern smartphones.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I just think it's funny that folks keep insisting that life here in Palmland is hell, but Android delivers nirvana.
    But is that even true? I'd say that a latge majority of EVO switchers aren't expecting "Nirvana", they're simply expecting "Something that's not the Pre". Expectations are not nearly as high as you think.
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Sorry, but that's complete bollocks. My Hero had everything I wanted out of the box, had way more features than Pre out of the box, and had a maintenance release to fix the only noticeable bugs within 3 weeks.

    If I wanted anything beyond that, I had a kazillion stable ROMs to choose from. Never bothered. I have been waiting 11 months for some WebOS bugs to be fixed. Almost no one here runs a stock Pre. What does that say for how amazing the stock experience is?
    Well, I'm still running on a stock Pre and have no problems with it.
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